brentipold

So I called Aderans the other day as they are offering the testing near me..

 

the first part involved plucking the hairs, taking the cells and implanting them back in..

 

This new one involves a mini strip procedure the size of roughly a dime. They want to then take those hairs, and try to multiply the cells, inject them.. in the hopes more hairs sprout.

 

I passed on that

Yea that doesn't sound too fun, but I guess someone is going to have to try it for them to see if it'll work. This company seems like they are just throwing sh*t at a wall and hope it sticks. Perhaps because they are getting desperate bc of Histo.

I think you should grow it out on the top of your head just to see how thick the hair there really is. It can be deceiving when its buzzed, but like I said NICE RESULTS. Your follices look like they've doubled in size.

hi guys well een on propecia 4 bout 2 weeks now only light dose 0.25 stated every oother day was fine with that but last 3 days my testicles have been hurtin to the point where i walk funny lol, now this would only occur in the evening and by the time i wake up im absolute finr could go running or anything, as stated only last 3 days any trhoughts guys

Are you having any ED trouble at all? This COULD POSSIBLY be temporary, and might go away after a month, or you may have it until you stop taking the drug. I believe the pain you feel is your body testes trying to make DHT.

Results look pretty good, your mid-scalp has thickened up nicely. I'm sure you're happy with the results. congrats.

This is a post of a radio broadcast in the UK about the lingering side effects caused by Propecia, after quitting the drug. Seems as though some of you here are still skeptical because you have none and benefit nicely from the drug, but keep in mind not everyone is as lucky as you are and there are people out there suffering.

BBC iPlayer - Newsbeat: 21/12/2010

Fast Forward to 9:50

Even though its not sure fire proof that the condition exists, I still its worth listening to.

You don't want to keep shocking your endocrine system by giving it FIN and letting your body adjust to it every time. It may mess with your ES and you'll end up like me. I'd really stick to taking a dose every day, and even more importantly the same dosage everyday. That could become a problem when you start cutting the pills smaller and smaller. The endocrine system is something you really dont want to fuck with, I'm going to be posting a link soon on the hairloss drug topic. I suggest you listen to it. As far as cutting the pills into 5ths and 6ths, if you really want to cut them down that far you can go to the drug store. Bring 3$ with you, and buy a pill cutter. You'll find that it is very easy to cut them that way.

I'm not going to say that you're wrong about taking .05th of a pill being effective enough, but i'm interested to see if you do get some benefits from it. Please keep me updated on your hairs progress throughout, but I will add that I am skeptical you will see any benefit. Id also recommend taking this pill on an empty stomach with just water because I would think taking a pill that small would have a hard time getting absorbed...

I never expected anything from this product, if indeed it was legit, it would have been hyped a whole lot more through commercial ads or the news. Just another way for companies to try to snake oil people. The proof is in the pudding, i've not seen one picture from any of their claims. That right there alone makes it seem even more bogus.

No Darren, you'd have to take it every other day. I believe it only stays in your system for 24 hours, taking 1mg every week will do nothing for you.

if youre young and just starting to bald, i'd say cut the pills into 1/4 and take one everyday.. If you see improvement after 3-4 months then u know its working. Or just take 1mg, odds are u probably wont have side effects, and if u do then quit taking the drug till you go back to normal... then try .25mg..

As a chemist with a background in medicine and biochemistry, I might be able to help clear up a couple of things that were brought up.

 

Dose-response curve: Here's a great link that shows several dose-response curves for DHT (serum and scalp), and leads me to some conclusions.

No Title

 

Yes, the dose response curve (serum DHT) is flat for dosages above 0.2 mg. Why this drug comes in a dose of 1 mg, when 1/5 of that gives the same response for serum DHT levels is a question that the FDA should have asked Merck. According to these curves, 0.2 mg should be the MOST that is prescribed.

 

Furthermore, I would think a more detailed analysis of smaller increments between 0.05 and 0.2 should be examined, as there appears to be a difference between the "scalp" and the "serum" DHT response curves. It looks like somewhere between 0.05 and 0.2, there is an optimal dosage where serum DHT inhibition is actually LESS than scalp DHT inhibition. It would stand to reason that if you could lower the serum DHT inhibition, while still getting a decent amount of scalp DHT inhibition, you could minimize potential side-effects on the endocrine system. Just a theory, but from these graphs, it begs the question.

 

But dose-response isn't the entire story. And half-life isn't either. I've read a lot of posts that say (incorrectly) that because the half-life is only 8-9 hours that you should be back to normal within a few days. What those people aren't realizing is that the interactions between the drug and the 5AR enzyme are more complicated than that. The enzyme-inhibitor complex is actually a 2-stage process and can stay bound for up to 7 days after 1 single dose! Check out this graph:

Plasma DHT levels 7 days after various Finasteride dosages • PROPECIAHELP: Unresolved Finasteride Propecia Proscar side effects info & discussion forum

That being the case, not only is the 1 mg dose way too much, the frequency of taking it once a day is ALSO way too much. I would think dosing every 5 days would be more reasonable.

 

So the end result is that at 1 mg, you're taking way too much, super-saturating all enzyme binding sites. And since the doses are so frequent, the enzyme complex never gets a chance to be unbound from the inhibitor.

 

Obviously the pathogenesis of MPB is more complex than just looking at serum and scalp DHT levels, but these questions should still be addressed.

 

This brings me to my next point. Given how complex and inter-connected the endocrine system is in general, and the fact that 5AR is involved in several inter-related enzyme pathways, it's not surprising that some people are having far-reaching and long-term side-effects. When you down-regulate an enzyme pathway for a prolonged period of time, there will be changes in gene expression. Some people will be more affected than others, depending on their specific genetic makeup.

 

I don't know if Merck was just in a rush to get this to market, but it seems that there were way too many questions left unanswered to just start blindly prescribing 1 mg doses daily.

 

Sooooo.....From what I've seen of these graphs, the best dose for minimizing potential nasty side-effects, while still getting a good amount of benefit would be just 0.05 mg every 5 days.

 

Cutting up a 1 mg pill into 20 pieces is not feasible. However, from what I've read finasteride is fairly soluble in ethanol. An enterprising person might consider dissolving 1 tablet in a small amount of ethanol and then titrating that out in 1/20 increments with something as simple as an eye-dropper. I'm not sure how uniform the distribution of the finasteride molecules would be in the ethanol solution, but it's an idea.

 

If anyone else as any other ideas for splitting it up into 20 doses, please post them.

 

I hope this helps, and I welcome any feedback, as I obviously still don't understand the entire picture. And of course I'm not an expert or a health-care practitioner so don't take my ideas as law.

I would agree.. It is too much. I cant remember if I said this on this thread or not, but when i was taking .25 mg I had no side effects..

Gaba supplement? Do you know of any that you could recommend? Can one get these supplements anywhere say like walmart or walgreens?

I'll msg you a link.

take gaba in supplement form and see if that does anything for you.

Just had my testosterone tested by my urologist. The nurse told me i tested at 619 and she said the normal range is 241-837. So, it seems my T is rather high (normal for my age).

 

Apparently the minoxidil didnt mess with my testosterone. So Im now assuming its caused a blood flow issue. Or maybe messed with some other hormone?

Nah, that's not high. its right where it should be. Could have messed with your brain somehow.. by messing with the gaba-a receptors, which lowers your dopamine. get dopamine tested.

I have said this before eliminate the problem with a small dose of Viagra!

dude Viagra is just a band-aide to the problem. it doesnt fix the problem. Ive read somewhere that rogaine can mess with gaba or something in your brain. I wish I knew where I read that so I can maybe understand what is happening.

I'm here to give you guys an update. Its now been about a year and a month since quitting the Minoxidil 5% and the sexual side effects are still present. Still getting either weak or no morning erections, not waking up rock hard like I used to, random erections throughout the day haven't come back, maintaining an erection during sex is very difficult, and I still get that cold, tight feeling in my testicles/scrotum during the day.

 

I should note that 5 months ago I found out I had a varicocele in my testicle and thought may have been contributing to my sexual issues. I had an operation to fix the varicocele but it didn't fix my sexual problems. Looking back I do believe that somehow the Minoxidil somehow was responsible for the development of my varicocele as I know that Minox opens up blood vessels which in turn creates our problems. I've also read that Minox can mess with the thyroid and prolactin thus leading to impotence.

 

This past year has been a nightmare. I'm now beginning to believe that these side effects are going to be either permanent or very long term. I'm just trying to accept this, which is the most difficult thing to do. I'm only 28 years old. Life will certainly never be the same again. I'm thankful that I have a girlfriend who is very understanding.

Where have you heard minox affects prolactin and thyroid hormone???????

Have you had any blood tests done of your hormones and thyroid hormones? Have you ever taken propecia?

If you have done blood tests, do you care to share them with me, Im pretty knowledge with this sort of things since I suffer from side effects after quitting propecia...

Yea I love the "its all in your head" answer, it cracks me up... Before this drug fucked me up, I dont care how worried or scared I'd get, it still wouldnt stop me dick from functioning.

I posted my experience with Propecia in another thread but let me just say here the official stats for how many patients are experiencing problems with Propecia are BS. You'll find many people supporting the use of Propecia are actually experiencing side effects but they would personally rather have hair and put up with the sexual problems. That doesn't mean the problem doesn't exist, it's just that they are OK with the side effects. Personally, I was not and would never be OK with loss of penis functionality no matter how much hair it grew.

Agreed, do not buy into that whole 2% experienced side effects fubar, I can assure you its much greater then that. There are much more then 2% of the ppl on this site that have side effects, now apply that to the entire population.

Thought they were suppose to start in November, now their starting the Spring.. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Interesting.. I guess that could mean your T production is high....

Well, if you're worried about the side effects, then take a low dosage of the drug. Try .50mg of a pill and see if you have no side effects from it... If you do, wait till they disapear and you go back to normal.. Then try .25mg. if that doesnt work then you cant take the drug and youre out of luck. More then likely you probably wont have any side effects anyways.

Have you had any kind of e.d trouble before taking fin? How is your diet? are you out of shape/overweight? Just trying to get a better picture here..

If you're in good health then you could be dealing wit post fin syndrome. Problem also is that you're in the UK, doctors there are pretty clueless.. youre going to have to go see a doctor though and try to convince him... That long list of blood tests are what you need to get a better picture of whats going on with you....

A theory that I and someone else are trying out is taking OXbile. Its a digestive supplement that helps get bile out of your liver. We suspect this to be the cause of these side effects bc tile in your liver can cause a whole lot of other problems such as all the propecia side effects..for some odd reason we think propecia has done some damage to our livers... If i were you id give it a try... It can only help with your digestion anyways..

You did mention you prostate being an issue, that is one thing you need to address first though. Once you take care of that and if the side effects remain then id go through further testing. Watery semen can be a side effects of a prostate problem.

Okay guys, an update.

 

Basically, whilst taking a shower, my body hair (from the genital area upwards) is coming away from my body much more easily. For example, if I just scrub myself or even pull at the hair a bit, it comes away. This is *exactly* what was happening when I tried massaging oil in to my hair - the hair was just coming away with my hand.

 

Could this be some hormonal changes as a result of stopping the Proscar?

That is not a good thing. Can I ask your age, and how long has it been since you quit taking the drug?

So once the hair sheds, does that mean its dead? (Dead follicles) and your saying that because the hair comb runns off double A batteries it isnt strong enough?

Even if it ran off of uranium, it wouldn't be any benefit.. Bunch of dirty scundrel doctors try to peddle crap on people like us... Dont buy into it at all... bunch of fubar.

Wow, I haven't been to this site in over a year. Well I'm not gonna fill in the gap between my last posts just yet. So here it goes.

 

I took Minoxidil for 6 months, stopped (because applying twice a day was hell) then started taking Propecia and nizoral + vitamins

I took Propecia for 1.5 years before giving up because I had not one type of positive result my hair. My hasnt stabalized that well in the last two years.

 

 

The last two years, have been hard. I've lost friends, struggle to gain any confidence even tho I have a very attractive girlfriend. My beautiful hair is NW 3.5 now, so I was then deciding on a HT. When I was searching for doctors and researching for some type of answer to my dilema I found a Professional Hair Salon in my area. So not proud to say I desperately acted quick.

 

I put all my hope into this program at this point. I was desperate and thought I shouldn't get a HT just yet, mostly because what these people at this salon told me, I decided to do this program first before I did an operation. So here it is.

 

[Ok, again not proud to say I paid a deposit non returnable1800$ and then pay 93 each month for one year program,.

 

They have a Lazer in the salon that I sit in for 30 minutes about once or twice a week. At the beginning I went twice a week, then once a week, now once every two weeks. at the 6 month mark I get the same amount of visits I got the first 6 months (sorry kind of confusing)

 

I started 2 months ago

 

The hair pro guy gave me, HAIR VITAMINS I take twice a day, HAIR SHAMPOO AND CONDITIONER, AND DEXPANTHONAL, and this new MINOXIDIL with less alcohal content in it.

 

] They examined my scalp, and they showed me all the nasty build up on my scalp, we took pictures and I was convinced that scalp treatment was necessary if I was to regain any of my hair back.

 

[ I've been applying the panthenol just before my shower, leaving on for 5 to 10 minutes then washing out, with shampoo and then Conditioning. After 2 weeks I seen a difference in my scalp (because this salon has a microscope that plugs into a computer) and I seen my scalp pigment returning and the sebum breaking away and the follicle opening. (After Two weeks)!! After two months (Present) My scalp looks clean and my follicles look very normal. However I was also applying the minox from the start of this program and my scalp was irritated from the minox most likely. My head started to itch, and I stopped using the minox as much and just kept doing the scalp therepy (panthenol).

 

(RESULT AFTER TWO MONTHS) My hair has shed lots because either the scratching from irritation of the minox (or the process of sebum breaking away or the panethnol itself). I thought I could be shedding some hair, maybe because the sebum was holding the hair in place (like a support system for a flag pole).

 

I was also given an at home (lazer COMB) to use between visits at the salon Lazer.

 

I also bought one small bottle of Maximum Growth Therapy BECAUSE It was supposed to help with the ithching and dryness. Plus it has some DHT blocking stuff etc.

 

SUMMATION Any comments could help, dexpanthenol has the words (hair start) on the front, the products are from WHEREDIDMYHAIRGO I'm obviously a patient or rather a (consumer) rather than any phony internet advertisor for these products, these are just the products I'm using.

 

I also would like to know about dead hair follicles. Since I shed hair does that mean the hair that falls out is dead then? Or could the scalp therepy and lazer combo enough be able to give them LIFE. The hair that sheds, isnt there like 4 hairs in one follicle. Those follicles are able to recover all of its maximum hairs right? All the hair I do have left is of ok texture and thickness. However all of the hair that has fell out is like half of my hair is long and other is like I just shaved my head. So it looks horrible. These hairs will come back right?

 

Any help would be appreciative. At home lazer comb experienced advice would be help ful.

Yea I think you pretty much got suckered man.. That sounds like a waste of time. Save your money for a HT. Or just wait it out... Should be some answers in 2013....

It's been a month, not a year. point made. goodbye.