OtherSyde

Wait, do you mean you regret having multiple procedures more than anything? Did they all go wrong or something?

I bet anything would be hilarious on voice-over... Like one of the weird fetish-romance scenes in 50 Shades of Grey? I bet that would be borderline creepy haha

I agree too. I want perfection. I want a brand new Subaru WRX, the beefed-up STI model, the super rally-car racer version. But that's almost $50,000 with the good warranty and all the trimmings. So I suppose I will settle for a regular WRX Premium, and get a Typhoon cold-air intake and a custom tune for the engine computer that will put it up around 300hp or so; I can live with that for a daily-driver. But really, even if we were all very wealthy and could buy whatever we wanted without worrying about balancing our finances, even that wealth couldn't bring back dead hair follicles; this makes the HT scene a little different. For instance, in my whole hairline thread I made a few weeks back, I was ultimately contented to settle with beefing up the thickness of my hairline and bringing the temples and widow's-peak-point forward a bit, in lieu of actually lowering my entire hairline a quarter-inch like I originally wanted to. We do what we can, and I say do all that you can do! I usually want to punch the mentally underdeveloped retards that use the phrase YOLO (You Only Live Once), because they're usually using it to justify doing something completely idiotic and dangerous like running out into traffic and trying to do a back-flip over an oncoming car while drunk, but I think the phrase more aptly applies to the act of living life to its fullest extent with planned-out decisions that produce long-lasting positive results. There's minimal risk that much of anything is going to go wrong, given the skill of the Coalition doctors in general. Plus, already being a Norwood 5 or 6, the worst possible thing that could happen is that (if the grafts didn't take for some bizarre reason, which is due to a weird and rare genetic quirk and has only happened one or two times in the history of HT's, from what I've heard) you'd just end up still-bald with a scar that could be hidden under remaining hair; not really even a loss, per se, and astronomically unlikely as well. You stand to gain so much though, and I think it's high time to seize that opportunity. I think you should treat yourself to it; six to seven months from now you can be looking in the mirror and seeing a guy with a head of hair, and perhaps a pretty full head of hair with a little Toppik! Attending social events would suddenly become a lot more fun.

I just decided to make this thread because I typed way too much and got off-topic in another thread earlier, so rather than hijacking that thread I transferred the discussion into its own thread. People were arguing over whether transplanted hair is an illusion or not, and if the density is an illusion or not. In some cases, the density is an illusion, and has to be; I get that once you hit N5 or N6 you can't cover your head with as much density, but just simply having transplanted hair doesn't necessarily mean "lack of real density," nor does it make it an "illusion." My rule as far as any cosmetic procedure is that it has to be durable and self-sustaining; no special products, no concealers that can't be touched or stroked by human hands or can't get in the pool/ocean without coming off, and no constant daily maintenance. That's why I chose HT's over Rogaine, or stuff like Toppik, or a "hair system." HT's are real, and if they are able to be done with enough grafts, there isn't any smoke-and-mirrors illusion that you have to keep up; it's just there. I'm not ragging on anyone with lower density who uses hair products; I certainly would too, if I had low density and lived in normal society. But durability and lack of maintenance is especially important for me - in the military I get deployed all the time and there is no room for vanity on deployment; it's just you and whatever you have permanently attached to you. You're stripped down to the bare essentials; women scarcely even wear makeup or do their hair. Some guy standing in front of a mirror with a can of Toppik, a big hair brush, and a can of volumizing hairspray on a cramped warship or in the middle of some jungle or desert war-zone is just not happening. I hated the image I first saw in the mirror at boot camp at age 21, when I had to cut my styled, highlighted hair short and expose my ugly receded hairline, quickly became pale from lack of sunlight (face protected by hat brim whenever outside), had to take out my contacts and put on those big stupid ugly BCG's (Birth-Control-Glasses; military slang for those big hideous goggles they make you wear for glasses, because you're never having sex as long as you wear them), and leave all my stylish clothing behind in favor of what was basically a glorified prison uniform (the Navy's old Utilities uniform that was replaced with the blue cammies in 2009). I was almost immediately transformed from a moderately-attractive person into what basically amounted to "Hi, I'm a serial-killer-rapist Hollywood stereotype." I actually had a black girl that I'd never even interacted with before tell me that I scared her (and she was taller than me!) because I looked exactly like Freddy Krueger from Nightmare on Elm St, but with creepy glasses. Then another guy that I didn't really know beyond his name and face just walked up to me a few weeks later out of nowhere, straight-on, and said - totally matter-of-factly and with no malice or mockery in his voice, just a neutral sense of detached honesty - "You are the scariest-looking human being I have ever seen in my life." In those exact words. It was a shocking and harsh lesson, being faced with that reality and that image and those reactions from people, but honestly, it was one of the best things to happen; otherwise, I would likely have kept trying to continue the facade with surface props and methods, hiding reality more and more, until it couldn't be hidden anymore and by then it would be cataclysmically bad. Being forced to see my base appearance stopped the delusion in its tracks, and immediately got me working on ways to permanently upgrade my base-level equipment. Boot camp and deployments taught me that if you naturally (or via permanent surgery) have pretty/handsome features, like good hair and facial structure, then you get to keep them and look good in any situation or environment, even devoid of any available vanity. If you rely on delicate fake hair products, skin lotions, or makeup-type stuff to look good in society, all of that is inevitably ripped away from you sooner or later, and you're suddenly facing everyone just as you are, under the harshly intense lights of cruel scrutiny, and having everyone, including you, see you with all the flaws you can't escape. And this makes it even worse when you get back to society, because then everyone (even people at home, due to photos and word of mouth) will know that's how you truly look, and then you look all the more ridiculous and vain trying to hide it once you return to regular society with everyone knowing the thinly-veiled truth. So any appearance-changer I get has to be permanent and rugged, and it has to change the way that I truly look. No illusions. I guess those of you that aren't military and don't live particularly active lifestyles (involving water-sports, heavy sweating, potentially rough contact to your head, wearing gas masks or fire suits, etc.) and aren't forced to live in the often-Spartan environments of deployed military personnel can get away with the "illusion" plan and its associated products. I cannot sustain such things, so whatever I get done can't be an "illusion." Which leads back the the original, more philosophical question... What would you consider to be an illusion in terms of self modification? I mean, Botox is obviously an illusion, because it requires constant upkeep and it will sag and fail if left unattended for even a relatively short time. Same with fake spray-tans and collagen injections, and big elaborate comb-overs, and hair-piece rugs, and booster shoes that make you a little taller. But what about, say for instance, a set of jawline implants that are permanently screwed into or fused to the jaw bone, or cheek bone implants that are fused to the skull, which will stay with a person and require no maintenance whatsoever (or even awareness of their presence) for the rest of their lives and will remain there until they die? And if those things are still illusions in your eyes, then what about the surgeries that require no foreign device to be permanently implanted? Like using bone saws and surgical tools to strategically break and rebuild someone's jawline; to actually change the structure of the bones themselves permanently? Or using the Ilizarov Device (Google that) to lengthen one's leg bones permanently, making a person several inches taller? Or even using the non-surgical Sorribes method with that double-sided tape to permanently flatten a person's ears back against their head after several months/years of wearing the tape? Or using huge amounts of protein supplements and mass gainers in combination with long, hard hours in a synthetic man-man gym using mechanically engineered made-made equipment to artificially pump up your muscles to ridiculous sizes that you would never be able to achieve without all the supplements and elaborate man-made weight devices? Some people might even say that anything you're not born with is an illusion. But does that mean a big ugly burn scar across your face from a car wreck, which ostracizes you from society and mostly prevents you from ever finding romance or human intimacy, is an illusion as well? Or is that real, while any cosmetic procedures to fix it aren't real? Is it only real if it's random chance or "God's Will," as the religious might say? Personally, I think conscious measures are the very answer to being victimized by random, unfortunate circumstance. Evolution is the deliberate effort of any life form to change and adapt itself in order to be better suited to its environment and to thrive. This extends to your own will as a social creature; if society worships the good-looking and the educated, are you smart enough and survival-driven enough as an organism to adapt to that standard, and thus to be all the more prone to succeed?

"Higher density at the hairline" = higher density at the hairline. Higher numbered follicles = more hairs, thus more density. Less density of follicles, but higher density of hair. I don't do much of anything to my transplanted hair. I don't comb it over, I don't use thickeners, I only wash it with your typical Axe body wash. It just looks the way it is. Maybe it's an illusion of some sorts, but it's a permanent, no-maintenance illusion, at least for me. I had gone off on a tangent and written a whole diatribe here, but I think I'm going to start a new thread about what is considered an illusion, since it's actually a fairly broad, thought-provoking, and relevant topic of our times. [EDIT] - Here it is: "What is "Illusion?" But short answer to the OP's question, YES; even if high density can't be achieved, creating a nice frontal hairline to frame your face and getting mild density towards the rear (just for hair products to stick to, if nothing else) would make a HUGE difference; 50 isn't even that old anymore - you've still got a good bit of life to live! I would live it to its fullest extent! Don't listen to the naysayers, they're just butt-hurt because they're not satisfied with anything less than 25-year-old celebrities' Hollywood hair.

I think it would be a rare woman in any relationship that would be insensitive enough to attack her partner over something like that. Women tend to be supportive. Usually.

I vote Option 2; people look more at your face than they do at the back of your head, and as cueball and hairthere said, you can just take 2-4 minutes each morning during your morning routine to touch up that little 2cm x 2cm somewhat-thin spot with a little topical concealer before work. Thickening up the front will, as you said, allow for way more diverse and fun styling options, such as: The Soft Touch: The TinTin Flip: The Jude Law Faux Hawk: Or even its more aggressive and sexually insecure cousin, the infamous Douche Bag Faux Hawk: Because it's more fun to style! . .

Propecia and Rogaine affect the mid-scalp and, most of all, the crown, right? Still, those places will eventually fall out, which is what I will save most of my donor bank grafts for. But when you say "You were receding at age thirty and Propecia and Rogaine really doesn't cover this area" I'm assuming you were referring to the frontal hairline area? That's perfect, because my current hairline (and the entire frontal region of my scalp) is actually almost pure grafts; look at my Before pics on the first page and in my blog. The hairline has become more scraggly because, as you said, Propecia doesn't help the frontal hairline and frontal scalp much, so it kept receding; what happened was, my doc placed a moderate amount of grafts (instead of super-density) because there were a lot more original hairs still there 2-3 years ago that filled in the space between the grafts. Now those are largely gone, leaving only the grafts remaining, which is why it now looks sparse and needs some touch-up work. However, the hairs you see at the hairline and most of them on the frontal third of my scalp are permanent grafts that won't be falling out anytime soon, which is actually how I'd prefer it: Knowing exactly where I stand. My crown has scarcely changed at all (if any) since then, I imagine due to my steady Finasteride use. Just the same, I will save most of my grafts for that area later on, in case I hit a land-slide point where it all just goes in the back. We've all seen guys have three or four mega-sessions of 3,000 or 4,000 or more at a time, and I've got good donor density, meaning I probably have a couple more big HT's in storage for later; I'm not really in any imminent danger of running out anytime soon. I've only used about 1,700 grafts so far and got my whole frontal area covered; using another 1,500-1,800 for one final frontal hairline round (the last) would only put me around 3,500-ish total grafts used, which seems to be right about on-par with the average number that most Norwood-3A or Norwood-4 guys use to cover their entire frontal area, and leaves plenty for the future.

Thanks, I like the M shape better as well, at least on my face. Waikiki is... an adventure. Not what I expected it to be. It's like a never-ending party filled with locals and tourists from everywhere from Japan to Russia to Sweden. There's not much crime because the city patrols it very well in order to protect its primary money-maker (the tourism industry), meaning about every minute or two a cop car with its solid blue lights lit up on top slowly cruises by every block. The most hilarious thing to see is when you stay out till 4am (when the bars close), and all the angry dude-bros are forced out onto the streets from the clubs. Most of them, despite their young good looks, good physiques, and expensive designer jeans and button-up shirts (with the collars popped to show how hard they are), have utterly failed to get laid because they are all retarded douche-bags. Now they are angry and drunk and hopped up on unspent testosterone and Red Bull, and ready to take it out on each other. They can't fight in the streets when the cops are near, so you will see them talking crap to each other; then they all see the cop car cruising by and they all just shut up in unison and wait, and a few seconds later they're right back at it. It inevitably escalates, and pretty soon, for 30 second intervals, they clobber each other in the streets like drunken morons, flailing about as their stupid over-sized VOLCOM® hats and overpriced TAPOUT® shirts go flying everywhere as though a dancing whirlwind contrived of pure testostero-idiocy is causing them to levitate and swirl in the air. Then, in a flash, they all snap back to the sidewalks and act like nothing is going on as another cop car glides by. Seconds later it's drunken pandemonium again. It's even safe to watch them, because they're careful not to involve any tourists or passers-by, as that would anger the police. It's like a well-timed ballet of angry, blue-balls-inspired aggression, and this comical expression of immature sexual frustration happens almost every night, and it really kicks into high gear on the weekends. Anyways, here's few pics of me wasting that $250 in Waikiki... It was a blast, I hafta say that at least Comically, although no younger women were really looking at me as everyone mostly dresses in much less formal attire while "up in the club" so I didn't really fit into the aggressively pop-culture motif, but with that dress shirt and vest on, I had older cougars checking me out left and right lol

Well thanks for that. I guess the only down-side to having styled hair is that if I go in a club and get sweaty, or get wet for any reason (rain, pool water, beach, etc.), I'm back to square 1, which is un-styled hair revealing my still-too-high hairline. At least now it's much easier to style and hide though, in most situations. I no longer feel insecure about it, per se, although I do want to touch up my hairline. I think it's a psychological thing in our society; bald male = non-glamorous, not young, simple utilitarian cave-man type that directly contradicts today's socially adept celebrity-obsessed post-MTV-generation ideals and also offends deep-seated values that revolve around the idea that you are on the social level of the company that you accept; if you accept "unsavory, ugly people" then you must be on their level, and you will be treated like them. And most women, being very social animals, are acutely aware of this fact, and do not want that for themselves. If you refuse to accept anything but "pretty," idealized people as your crowd, then that reinforces your higher status in society. Yes it is shallow and stupid, but that doesn't mean it can be ignored. Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers. Having hair and/or beauty, for me, is a two-fold thing. One side of it is my comparison of myself to others, internal feelings of adequacy, confidence, etc. The other side is simply a calculating, strategic, almost lizard-brain assessment of what I need to have and need to look like in order to glide through society without being verbally or emotionally accosted, or having negative judgments made against me that do affect a person in the long run. Prettier people get chosen for almost everything (jobs, promotions, inner circles, personal friends) way more often than less-pretty people (it's a proven fact with extensive research backing it up), and so developing good looks isn't just ego-masturbation, it's actually camouflage; it's chameleon-skin, designed to allow you to reap the benefits of life while staying under the radar of an aggressive, stupid society. Yeah, I've had that reaction a lot in life. In our society we could really use some of that old-school British politeness and consideration that we consciously eschewed after the Tea Party; that girl had no idea that you'd had a hair transplant, I guarantee it (she wouldn't even know what one looks like), which means she must have just thought you had had some kind of important surgery, or been in a car accident or suffered some painful injury, and she treated you like that anyway - with no pity or politeness, only thinly-veiled contempt. Like, "Ewww, an injured guy, gross! Those scars are so not attractive! He better not talk to me." And that attitude is everywhere today, I see it constantly in the Millennial generation. What the hell is wrong with society today? People are so judgmental and merciless it's sickening. That is a genius description. Still, judgmental people who were born gorgeous and never have to worry about any kind of insecurity will scoff at such a comment and continue to look down on people who are "inferior" to them. Don't we all. Screw them.

OK it's Saturday night and I'm being a hermit because I have to do homework and not go spend money partying in Waikiki (blew over $250 on drinks and taxis last Saturday night... Ouch), so I threw together a few GIF images... This hairline is way more reasonable than the craziness of my first idea, and it's even significantly more frugal, with the widow's peak being higher on both sides, than Jotronic was in his photo-chop suggestion: I think Jotronic said around 1,900 to 2,000 graft for his version? Maybe I could do this revised version with 1,600 or so (give or take), since the hairline barely changes, save for filling in the scraggly areas that are bugging me and only the temples are brought forward. I think I've reached a feasible course of action; what do you think guys? [EDIT] - BTW, I just figured out how to make animated GIFs (almost 20 years on the internet and I just figured this out... Wow...) and this was pretty fun, so if anyone wants a photo-chop animation to see what their hair plans could turn out like just PM me and I'll see what I can do

OK. I re-did the lines, and now they run right along the forward-most limit of my hairline (where there are actually already hairs, just sparsely arranged), and brought only the temples forward, and only just a bit; they'll still be slightly recessed behind the forward-most points of hair above my side-burn area. This retains my window's peak, but thicken up the hairline a lot and will frame my face well, I think... I love Jotronic's rendition here, I think it's kind of what I'm shooting for... Although I wouldn't mind if the hairline just behind the widow's peak stayed just a slight bit higher, as long as it's solid, and the tip of the widow's peak is nice and extra-dense so I can grow it out and style it like Sean William-Scott's hair in the big baldness-level chart I posted previously in the this thread: Does this seem a bit more doable with 1,600 to 1,900 grafts? Then I will save the rest for the future.

Oh I definitely want to keep the shape; I would just look weird with a straight-across hairline.

Yeah, I've been thinking about it hard, and I probably will just shoot for thickening my current hairline and maybe bringing it down like 1/8 of a cm (or something tiny), and filling in the temples to frame my face. I think that would about do it, then I could move on to other things in life. I'll be poised to do this very soon, since I'm using my tax return to kill the final bit of my debt that I've been steadily slaying over the last two years since my first HT and some cosmetic body surgery for the wife after she lost 85lbs from gastric bypass surgery. We're both very happy that we're not going to end up embodying the old stereotpye of the unhappy, bitter fat-woman-bald-guy-couple with no sex life that just bickers all the time... That was one of our collective nightmares for middle-age.

Well your previous experience sucks, and I definitey feel your pain - I think we all do. But you're right that it could have been much worse if she'd mangled your scalp (God only knows what kind of horrible scar she would have left) and wasted hundreds upon hundreds of donor grafts, so she got your money but not your future. And now her name is out on the net; if her past record denies her even one patient (although it will probably be more than that), you can feel vindicated that she lost out on at least as much money as she charged you, as a direct result of her having done you wrong. Maybe she's not even a bad person, but making promises to patients and working on other peoples' bodies in such a permanent manner is a huge responsibility, and as a "doctor" she should have her sh!+ together a lot better before making promises she can't keep, charging patients big bucks, with no risk to herself and a lot of risk to her patients. Also, you can at least rest easy in knowing that if you pick one of the popular Coalition surgeons on this board, the clouds of your past woes will quickly evaporate to reveal the beaming sunlight of success. It's practically a guarantee.

OK yeah, I hadn't thought of her using it against you if you break up, but that only matters if you're going to be ashamed of it.

Oh H&W doesn't do FUE..? I did not know that. Yeah then there's probably already a scar there, I just thought you meant he would show up at home 2 weeks later with a big nasty new scar. Yeah she might notice the old scar too, though, if his head was shaved.

What scar? He's getting FUE, not FUT. I'm pretty much honest with anyone that asks; I'm weird like that I guess, a very active proponent of self improvement by any means available. But even if you don't want the world knowing, it would be good to have an honest relationship. My wife is perfectly happy that I get HT's, since it guarantees her that she'll never be married to a bald guy. It also essentially makes it acceptable for her to get something that she might want, like say, some Smart-Lipo after childbirth, or a breast lift. Point those things out when you tell her. A man (or woman) born beautiful is like a stupid child with a big daddy's-money trust fund who lives the posh life, not knowing what they have and wasting it early on, and becoming lazy and spoiled, unprepared to weather the brutal storm of aging that lies ahead. A person with a self-made image, who knows from a younger age how to maintain their attractiveness and beauty, what has to be done, and how to do it the most effective and sustainable possible way is the best kind to be with; To borrow the old 1980's computer acronym, WYSIWYG: What You See Is What You Get. No deception. This is pretty much how your hair will look 20-30 years from now, with a few touch-ups in between. When you're sitting at the black-jack table of Life, you do not gamble. You count cards and play for the win.

...Why wouldn't you be allowed to tell anyone who did an operation on you? I've never heard of such a thing. Sounds like she did a number on you, anyway; I wouldn't protect someone who stuck it to me like that, and I certainly wouldn't feed her other hapless young people to butcher by keeping her gross inadequacies a secret for her.

Yeah man, seriously! Hit up Dr. Feller, or SMG, or H&W, or Dr. Gabel, or someone a little less shady. That is just crazy...

Not so much dudes picking at it; I don't care about being attractive to dudes since I'm straight. It's really more women picking at it. Women today (and men as well), due to the sudden wide-spread availability of cosmetic surgery and and constant media exposure to pretty celebrities, as a default just expect a lot more in terms of looks. Everyone's expected to either A). Get born pretty, or B). Figure out how to make the cut, or C). Accept your status as a second-class citizen in social groups and bear the heckling. The bar is higher, and everyone in the younger generation likes to make sure everyone else knows it, and it's made clear to anyone who doesn't meet it that they are second-class in society. It's a vicious world, I guess, and it doesn't look like it's going to get any better anytime soon. Sometimes I think I would trade the technology and everything to live in a less judgmental era, like the 60's or something. I wouldn't able to fix the balding thing, but I wouldn't really be expected to fix it as much, since no one could fix it back then. I dunno. But yeah, Jotronic has more or less convinced me not to try to lower it by any significant measurement, although I definitely want to thicken up the scraggly hairline and fill in my temples. That shouldn't be too much to ask, I don't think.

Hmm... I guess "high" is a matter of perception, I suppose "mature" or "Distinguished" would be better descriptions. This is sort of my outlook:

How much did you actually lower your hairline, if any at all? Maybe 1/4 of a cm? I can see from your blog that it's slightly more forward, although not a lot; mostly just thickened and strengthened. Hmm. 2100 grafts. I could probably do that with FUE without too much trouble, right? That is such a contested issue on these forums. [EDIT] - Jesus H Christ. FUE is like, way more expensive than I thought. Saw a post from about a year ago saying $5 to $8 per graft? Is that still accurate? That's almost double the cost of FUT. For 2000 grafts that would be between $10,000 and $16,000. Seems like a lot for such a small HT. Guess I'll go with strip again. Ugh. This time I guess I'll just try to leave the hair on the back of my head super long so I can hide it as best I can.

Awesome pic Jo, looks good. Aside from filling in my Nick Cage temples, I would love to strengthen and ever-so-slightly lower the front widow's peak. This is because, if you look at the side views, you can see how incredibly thin and wispy it is, which allows people to clearly see the back-sweeping curvature of my head; I'd like for that to not be visible from the side profile, as it's an obvious sign of a non-gracefully-receded hairline. But there is obviously a significant positive difference between the first and the second shots: That would allow me to move from this: To this (Jay Harrington from Better Off Ted): Jay Harrington has got to be like, the poster child for lean white guys with high hairlines. I could definitely live with those nice, non-receded temples and that somewhat-high but handsome and distinguished hairline. Also, for the record, I do like Nicholas Cage's crazy ridiculous acting and his weird charisma, I'm just not thrilled about sharing his hairline, which is a much-talked-about (in a bad way) issue in Hollywood, even for Mr. Cage I know you're right that I should save the most possible donor hair for a rainy day, so I guess I'm willing to be somewhat frugal. I also want this to be the last bit of work I do on the frontal area. The rest must be saved for the rear/top. So seeing what Dr. Bisanga did with 1,900 grafts in the link posted above (which actually seems to have covered a little more area than I'm even looking to cover), you think this could be done with 1,900, or maybe 2,000 grafts, tops? Could I pull it off with maybe 1,600-1,800 if I'm only shooting to lower the hairline by the aforementioned 1/10 of a cm? That's not a huge HT by any means, I don't think, leaving me plenty in the "bank."

Hmm... Yeah I see now that the lines I drew are definitely lower than I intended... I just have such a big nerdy poindexter forehead, and my frontal hairline is so scraggly and inconsistent, especially when revealed in the light. I hate it. Maybe just a little bit lower like you said, just a half-centimeter and mainly just fill in the temples to get rid of my "Nick Cage"? That would probably be better, and for such a small investment of 1300-1500 grafts, I could easily do FUE this time, huh? I was thinking something like Iamx121's 1,800-graft frontal HT, but a little less, so it's more like 1,500 or so? And this one by Dr. Bisanga is pretty amazing, although it used 1,900 grafts and I would cover a bit less area to keep it around 1,500, like I said.