TheEmperor

Looks natural. I think the hairline looks good but you would benefit from more density. How long is your hair? It looks like it is about 1" (3cm) long. When you got 3030 grafts, did you expect you would need to return for a second? It seems like 6-7000 grafts are usually required to cover the entire top and crown.

I think most of the major HT docs should be able to write you a proscar Rx if they feel it will help. Good luck.

Well, it's been a couple more months, and I'm still working on this step. I have been looking for reputable hair places in Toronto who could do a consult and proper diagnosis. I spoke to one of Dr. Armani's consultants in Toronto. He examined my hair, and noted that the density was higher in the donor area than the rest (20% difference, but I would have guessed higher). He also said he could see some extremely limited signs of miniaturization. His conclusion was that my hair loss was stress-related and it would grow back, just like everyone else keeps telling me. This seems to go against everything I've read on the internet. Diffuse patterned non-genetic stress-related hair loss? Huh? I thought it would help me, but it's just made me even more worried about what's going on. What he told me sounded more like what I've seen called "diffuse patterned alopecia", minus the extreme signs of miniaturization. I've been convinced my hair loss was genetic since I noticed it in March. I've lost a ridiculous amount of density since then, and it's not stopping. It just makes me feel sick to think I've lost so much without treating it, and that I'll probably never get it back. I've resorted to e-mailing anyone I can find in Toronto on the ISHRS web site. I only received two replies, and I don't know whether they are worth seeing. Dr. Martin Unger has a terrible reputation online for surgery, and Dr. Marla Rosenberg is barely mentioned at all. They both say they do regular hair loss consultations, and can even claim it on the provincial health insurance here. Is there anywhere else with a good reputation in Toronto? I really, really need to get this resolved. I think your reaction to the hair loss is at least as bad as the hair loss itself. You seem very stressed out. There are only 3 things that help with loss. Propecia, minoxidil, and hair transplant. You might as well get started on the first two. Since your grandfathers went bald, there is a very real chance you have MPB. It appears yo are trying to avoid this possibilty by attributing it to stress. Sounds like you hair loss is minimal, and given your stress level the easiest thing to tell you is that its caused by stress -- which will hopefully ease your mind. Unfortunately this does not help you if MPB is at the root of the problem. My advice is to: 1) Get propecia Rx (Go to a doc and tell him about your bald grandfathers) 2) Take a chill pill 3) Get minoxidil foam 4) Bide your time and figure out how to cope. This may include HT down the line.

Just wondering how low the strip is taken in the back? Is it below the bump, on the bump, or above the bump? I seem to have less laxity below the bump, and much more laxity above the bump.

Just wondering how low the strip is taken in the back? Is it below the bump, on the bump, or above the bump? I seem to have less laxity below the bump, and much more laxity above the bump.

I also think this is partially true, however the donor closure and strip extraction is highly important, as well as an understanding of how the hair may grown in, and the abilty to evalutate graft placement based on experience with many patients. That comes down to ability on the part of the doctor as a manager and his abilty to train and retain highly talented assistants. If there are 4 assitants dissecting and implanting grafts and one of them is inexperienced, it may impact overall results. I would dread having HT on an "off" day. Suppose some of the key assistants are sick or on maternity leave. If an assistant calls in sick, does the doctor take a smaller strip and scale the procedure to the number of assistants available? Or do they work late into the evening, risking damage to tissue that has been separated from your body 12 hours or more? Either would be terrible if your goal was maximum # grafts.

I feel guilty spending money on other things too! The only way I've been able to rationalize HT is that it will set back my retirement an amount equal to how long it takes me to save for the procedure. So the question then becomes, is delaying retirement worth it if I feel better about myself for the next 20 years? Early retirement is a big goal of mine.

Actually, there is a grown-out pic on the docs website and the density looks even. The doc is located in Thailand and his prices are. . . Well, lets just say I kinda wish I hadn't found his website! His results look good but with all the unknowns it seems risky. Not sure Id be comfortable working with a doc who is that far away.

Anyone?

Everyone "knows" that crown growth is slower than hair in front. I have also read that the longer follicles are out of body, the greater chance there is for damage to the FU. I was wondering if the reason we see slowed or less significant growth in the crown is because doctors work from front to back? If that is so, then wouldnt it be wise for doctors to do large mega sessions with multiple extractions? For instance take a 1cm strip, dissect and place for 4 hours, then take another thin strip and do the final closure? Seems like this would be safest for grafts. Has any doctor done survival rates on follicles based on time out of body? Seems like the chance of drying out or being damaged come other way are greater.

Everyone "knows" that crown growth is slower than hair in front. I have also read that the longer follicles are out of body, the greater chance there is for damage to the FU. I was wondering if the reason we see slowed or less significant growth in the crown is because doctors work from front to back? If that is so, then wouldnt it be wise for doctors to do large mega sessions with multiple extractions? For instance take a 1cm strip, dissect and place for 4 hours, then take another thin strip and do the final closure? Seems like this would be safest for grafts. Has any doctor done survival rates on follicles based on time out of body? Seems like the chance of drying out or being damaged come other way are greater.

Thanks for everyones response. You know what I hate about going/being bald is having to get my hair cut. Its just embarrassing. They use the clippers on the sides and then pretend to cut what is remaining on top.

mm, I have read this whole thread and I believe I understand what you are trying to communicate. You are a diffuse thinner and dont appear to have much recession. I remember when I was at this stage of hairloss. (There was actually a point where I lost some more hair which allowed me to style it differntly which made it look better.) I believe what you are saying is that the transplanted hair built up the central density but the temple areas were either a) not transplanted with the same density b) not transplanted at all or c) didnt get the desired yield. Because the density in the middle is much greater (and probably growing differntly than the native hair, it is probably more difficult to style everything in a cohesive way. So while the grafts were placed and grew you feel that they have a negative effect on your overall look. I have been reading the forums for a while and the large majority of people who express dissatisfaction had a good ammount of hair to begin with. I believe in your case, it looks like the existing hair in your temples is lower than where most doctors will transplant. You will notice that most docs plant behind the original hairline. If he built the temples to the same density as the middle area, that would probably require a large number of grafts and risk your long term result. So my guess is that the doc chose a responsible conservative placement pattern for the transplant hairs, and the net result is that the density is uneven and this makes it difficult to style. Because you were not bald to begin with and he was planting in the existing hair, you did not see a huge density increase -- which is par for the course. Seems like youve got a couple options. You could a) go to an agressive temple closer doc and put more grafts in front b) Wait for the temples to recede more and the density to even out c) remove thin temple hairs. Seems like there was some miscommunication here. I dont think the doctors suggestion to see other docs who are his peers would really help because thye may not understand your concerns and may evaluate the result based solely on growth. Hope you can get this worked out. My opinion is that the docs who routinely do _large_ sessions are also good at lon term planning and planting within existing hair. I hear your concerns and I believe they are valid. I also think you are trying to communicate fairly although some of the problem may be expectations. I'm curious how many docs would have touched you (your before pics look like you have a good bit of hair) Good luck.

Mrjb, Thanks for your wisdom. I have learned how to live looking this way, but I have a feeling like I've got a complex (that Ive gotten use to having.) I never look at my reflection in public. I always turn to face people so I dont "feel" their eyes on my scalp. I dont actively socialize with young women for fear of being rejected outright. I guess if the results come out good, then its worth the money, but if they dont come out good it would be a nightmare. Worst case scenario: Hair is growing in funny, constant need to add product and style it to make it look "normal", cant buzz down to a #4 because theres a large scar on the back, poor growth and multiple follow up procedures as hair arond it recedes. And adding insult to injury, out a significant amount of money. I've seen the bad as well as the good on these forums. Mostly good, but a few results have left me wondering.

I know everyones income is differnt and everyone has different needs, but I was wondering if most people evaluate the costs up front or if people jump into surgery out of desperation. If I had the money 10 years ago it probably would have ended badly because I probably would have ended up with minigrafts and would be chasing hairloss through many surgeries, scraping loose change together and saving for the next operation. (Or worse paying off loans) Thats no way to live IMO. Now that Im older, I can "afford" this, but I'm asking myself what this money would buy in other things: gadgets, hobbies, vacations, cars, women, bigger house, you name it. While I dont like the way I look, and I'm pretty sure other people dont like the way I look ( based upon how much more friendly they are when I wear a hat), I've built up a resistance to being ugly. I miss constant attention and eye contact from the opposite sex. I suppose thats part of what I'd be paying money for. The other side of it is my career. I genuinely believe that hairloss makes me look disheveled and like I dont have my act together. I'm less secure about interviewing and advancing my career by networking with strangers. What I do is a young man's game and I have this feeling that hair would help my career advancement. So there it is: I am considering spending a large amount of money so that I get more attention from the opposite sex and so that I am more confident and successful in my career. I dont think these notions are in my head. When I wear a hat out in public, people are nicer to me, they make eye contact. Young women "see" me and make eye contact again. (I'm very insecure about socializing with younger women for fear of being perceived as a "cradle robber" or some such. I dont feel I can pull off dating younger women in my current state of repair and most older women my age are married, bitter, or divorcees.) Bald I am largely invisible. Surprisingly, young men acknowledge me and are more relaxed when they dont realize I am bald. So this is not just about attracting women, but having people be nicer to me in general. Is this crazy? Does anyone here have any evidence that HT has helped them in this kind of way?

I know everyones income is differnt and everyone has different needs, but I was wondering if most people evaluate the costs up front or if people jump into surgery out of desperation. If I had the money 10 years ago it probably would have ended badly because I probably would have ended up with minigrafts and would be chasing hairloss through many surgeries, scraping loose change together and saving for the next operation. (Or worse paying off loans) Thats no way to live IMO. Now that Im older, I can "afford" this, but I'm asking myself what this money would buy in other things: gadgets, hobbies, vacations, cars, women, bigger house, you name it. While I dont like the way I look, and I'm pretty sure other people dont like the way I look ( based upon how much more friendly they are when I wear a hat), I've built up a resistance to being ugly. I miss constant attention and eye contact from the opposite sex. I suppose thats part of what I'd be paying money for. The other side of it is my career. I genuinely believe that hairloss makes me look disheveled and like I dont have my act together. I'm less secure about interviewing and advancing my career by networking with strangers. What I do is a young man's game and I have this feeling that hair would help my career advancement. So there it is: I am considering spending a large amount of money so that I get more attention from the opposite sex and so that I am more confident and successful in my career. I dont think these notions are in my head. When I wear a hat out in public, people are nicer to me, they make eye contact. Young women "see" me and make eye contact again. (I'm very insecure about socializing with younger women for fear of being perceived as a "cradle robber" or some such. I dont feel I can pull off dating younger women in my current state of repair and most older women my age are married, bitter, or divorcees.) Bald I am largely invisible. Surprisingly, young men acknowledge me and are more relaxed when they dont realize I am bald. So this is not just about attracting women, but having people be nicer to me in general. Is this crazy? Does anyone here have any evidence that HT has helped them in this kind of way?

People will bust your chops. When you start looking better, dont be surprised if it alienates some of your old friends who are less secure and were comfortable with you being bald (or headed that way). This could very well change the pecking order in your circle. Of course HT is fixing an age-inappropriate defect so its not pure vanity like when an otherwise hot girl gets oversized implants, lip implants, liposuction, etc. On the scale of vanity, its more like getting a tube of pimple creme for (your) acne.

Wow! For 4300 grafts and the amount of bald scalp, this is a fantastic result.

Armani's name is fictitious. He had some long middle eastern name. He changed it to "armani". Thats just too hollywood for a doctor, IMO. Also agree about lack of transparency. Lots of his work is shrouded in mystery and too good to be true. The impressive results are all on guys with minimal hair loss who he then dense packs the hairline. This creates problems down the line if donr becomes an issue. Lots of wild claims about graft #'s. Lots of claims about survivabilty of mega fue sessions. Poor survival probably not as noticable given the denisity at which he plants. His clinic claimed that FUE was non surgical. Hes is controversial and caters to young guys. I imagine he will retire into his riches in the near future.

SoftCoreSeisure, I used to play in a band and had to deal with the same hair loss issues at your age. It was devastating, but mostly because I wasnt very wise to the ways of the world or of women. I am in my mid 30s now. Its true that most 17-19 year olds judge others based on looks, and even more specifically, hair. Hair is a major fashion statement and young adults use it to express what kind of person they are, what kind of music they like, their attitudes, etc. It helps you make friends and when you have friends and are confident, then you get the girls. 17 year olds are so insecure and they take their insecurities out on everyone else. So early hairloss will hurt. In fact, if you are not confident, this will just lead to more taunts and insults, so you better learn how to shake it off, and if that doesnt work, learn how to fight. But by the time you reach 21, and then 25, it becomes less and less of an issue. The only people who judge you on your hair as you get older will seen immature. Women will be more concerned with your emotional substance, personality, and ability to provide for them. In fact, I'd wager at 21, having a new car and a nice apartment will score you more babes than the same ammount you would pay for a hair transplant. On a brighter ote, you will start t care more and more about your academics and career, will learn to appreciate other kinds of music and appreciate diversity in others, in fact you may find that one of your favorite musicians is bald. I know this seems unlikely, but it is true! And most importantly, there are always some cute, well grounded young women who care more about relationships than they do about your hairline. If you are all about one night stands, then I cant help you, but then if you are REALLY about the one night stand, then hair loss shouldnt stand in your way. Alcohol fixes that! Then when you are 23-25, you will find you can date womne much older than you. That will be fun for a while -- and women in their 30s are MUCH hotter (all around) than girls who are 18-19. Women get better with age. You have that to look forward to. In other words, I know its painful, but things change fast. You fininished school a year early so you must be a smart kid, so Im sure you can figure this out. This is a spiritual challenge that we all are faced with to varying degrees. Good luck.

I am not aware of any doctors doing 4K+ sessions who do not require shaving. If the surgeon is only planting 2500, then working around existing hair may be an option. In a 5000+ session, it probably becomes less manageable.

After early years of "enlightenment" (sensitivity, whatever you want to call it) and belief that women are men's equals, I'm coming around to this point of view. I am no longer "whipped" by the feminists. I suppose I am a post-modern man-ist. ?? Women are good at making babies. They are smart and have lots going for them, but they dont have balls and they dont learn the lessons that having a pair of balls will teach you.

Yikes! I havent heard anything about linear slot grafts since the mid 90s when I first started researching HT. They cut the graft into a long sliver and insert into long slice in your scalp. I think this is antiquated. Imagine it would leave bad scar for every slot graft. Micrografts were better than full plugs but cant create a natural hairline. Please use one of the docs on this site. Save up. Travel.

Thinning all over (in you rnorwood pattern) as opposed to going bald in some spots and retaining hair in others. This is normal. I think it is a judgement call on when to transplant into an area with significant native hair. If there is alot of native hair, the transpants could transect the existing hair and you'll get close to a zero sum gain. In your case, I think they would transplant around the spare existing hair and that would be supplemented by the transplant hair. Should look great when done.

I think you are a good candidate for strip. You have diffuse thinning over the top so Im not sure what strategy they would use. Would they plant in that area? If so, then you would probably need 4K+ grafts. However, on the bright side, you would probably get an increadible result. Look at the H&W site to see what 4K grafts will do for someone who is not totally bald. Rassman is supposed to be good too, but he is more expensive.