My Dermatologist makes false claims??

[TheGreatPretender]

11 minutes ago, consequence said:

The picture you posted is stable from 1 year, not "getting better over time". So I can again correct your misinformation and tell you you're wrong.

The study is only in Japanese men.

Merck's original studies were in a larger and more general population and showed a lack of getting worse for many, but that about 15-30% progressed with time regardless of fin.

Spend more time on the results and methods sections and resist the impulse to just cut and paste sentences from the abstract. Remember the evidence hierarchy. Poster presentations from a conference are never going to be vetted as carefully as meta analyses and position statements from high impact factor journals.

Actually first statement ain't entirely true if I'm correct the studies reported increase in hair counts from baseline before starting the drug though it may not be directly visible in the images as the patient didn't have much to cover. 

There is another study by Rossi from 2011 which concludes that 69% of the individuals which had growth in the first year would have continuous improvements over the course of the following 10 years while the 32% who became worse or didn't see improvements were less likely to regrow see improvements on the 10 year mark. 

Study had 118 subjects so it wasn't small. 

No one responds the same but if you improve or respond well enough to the drug chances are you are set for life. That's my stance, now I know there are no guarantees and opinions/experiences will always diverge but that's my reading. 

[alexmillne]

11 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

4. I've had what I think are GREAT results with minoxidil on my hairline. I've never used fin so can't comment on that. Medicines work differently person to person, everyone's results will vary so I don't have much to add here. Both are good for hair follicles overall regardless of where on your head they are. 

You only use Minoxidil? No finasteride?

[alexmillne]

1 hour ago, consequence said:

The reason for this is that follicles become much more sensitive to DHT and inflammation with aging.

As a thought experiment think about the flip side: if you gave a 70 year old man anabolic steroids vs a 20 year old man, the older man would experience AGA at a much more aggressive rate than the younger.

No, I think there might have been a misunderstanding. Let me clarify the matter. When someone is already at Norwood 4 level of hair loss and they begin using Finasteride, they have fewer hairs to begin with. Consequently, the gradual hair loss caused by taking Finasteride, let's say, "200 hairs" per day, becomes more noticeable and apparent over a shorter period of time. However, individuals at Norwood 2/3 level have a greater amount of hair. Therefore, if they start using Finasteride and experience the same amount of hair loss, such as "200 hairs" per day, it may not result in visible signs of balding. In certain cases, these individuals may even claim that they are no longer balding, as the rate of hair shedding fails to catch up until they reach a very old age

[alexmillne]

12 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

1. He's right that both fin and min are effective at combatting hair loss, but they work synergistically through different mechanisms. So using both together will get you better results than using one or the other. Basically they compliment one another. 

 

I found this video. Watch from 09:20 onwards. It features a very interesting graph that shows little difference when combining Finasteride and Minoxidil together compared to using Finasteride alone. Maybe the dermatologist was right? I just stumbled upon this by coincidence:

 

[alexmillne]

2 hours ago, consequence said:

1. There is a benefit to using minoxidil and finasteride together. This has been shown in multiple peer reviewed studies.

Please see my previous post. I found this video. Watch from 09:20 onwards. It features a very interesting graph that shows little difference when combining Finasteride and Minoxidil together compared to using Finasteride alone. Maybe the dermatologist was right? I just stumbled upon this by coincidence.

[GoliGoliGoli]

Archan is spot on in my opinion, all medications vary patient to patient. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by GoliGoliGoli

[GoliGoliGoli]

4 hours ago, alexmillne said:

Please see my previous post. I found this video. Watch from 09:20 onwards. It features a very interesting graph that shows little difference when combining Finasteride and Minoxidil together compared to using Finasteride alone. Maybe the dermatologist was right? I just stumbled upon this by coincidence.

I think you need to watch the video again.... You're completely getting the point backwards.

[alexmillne]

2 hours ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I think you need to watch the video again.... You're completely getting the point backwards.

what am I getting wrong? I am not talking about the entire video... That is why I gave you the exact mark of when to watch the video. By the way the Percentage Difference was≈ 16.5%

[GoliGoliGoli]

Yes, he say's in the video min + fin is superior to fin alone. 16.5% is a huge aesthetic difference

[HappyMan2021]

non-hair specialist doctors are utterly useless in treating MPB (unless it is a straightforward simple request for a Finasteride prescription)

See the dermatologist for skin checkups and DHT med prescription refills. For actual hairloss advice, you will have to go to a doctor who specializes in this. 

Edited June 3, 2023 by HappyMan2021

[alexmillne]

12 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Yes, he say's in the video min + fin is superior to fin alone. 16.5% is a huge aesthetic difference

That's even less then Low Level Light Therapy.... and that is small

[alexmillne]

13 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Yes, he say's in the video min + fin is superior to fin alone. 16.5% is a huge aesthetic difference

Moreover, I believe you may be misinformed. He consistently emphasizes that Finasteride is superior and that the combination of Finasteride and minoxidil is reserved for individuals with severe hair loss issues. However, for those in the early stages of hair loss, he advises sticking with Finasteride alone. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

I'm not sure what it even is that you're saying. What is less than low level light therapy? I don't think you are understanding English very well. 

I only watched the part you said to watch at 9:20. At 9:20 exactly he's talking about ketoconazole shampoo, not min. He literally then goes on to say that group 2 did the best using fin + min. He himself uses fin + min. 

[alexmillne]

1 hour ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I'm not sure what it even is that you're saying. What is less than low level light therapy? I don't think you are understanding English very well. 

I only watched the part you said to watch at 9:20. At 9:20 exactly he's talking about ketoconazole shampoo, not min. He literally then goes on to say that group 2 did the best using fin + min. He himself uses fin + min. 

Ketoconazole shampoo? Look, I specifically mentioned at the 09:20 mark that I was referring to the graph, not his actual words. Do you even comprehend English? But if you're genuinely interested in what he's 'actually saying,' why don't you skip ahead to the 20:15 mark? That's where he clearly states that when dealing with early-stage Alopecia, like Norwood 2/3, Finasteride alone (without minoxidil) is likely to be sufficient for a lifetime

[GoliGoliGoli]

1 hour ago, alexmillne said:

Ketoconazole shampoo? Look, I specifically mentioned at the 09:20 mark that I was referring to the graph, not his actual words. Do you even comprehend English? But if you're genuinely interested in what he's 'actually saying,' why don't you skip ahead to the 20:15 mark? That's where he clearly states that when dealing with early-stage Alopecia, like Norwood 2/3, Finasteride alone (without minoxidil) is likely to be sufficient for a lifetime

Nothing he said at 20:15 or past that point contradicts anything I said in the portion you originally quoted me. In fact he's repeating what I said, fin and min work synergistically, but of the two fin is stronger. 

And the graph at 9:05 also repeats my point. Fin + min is 16% better stronger than fin alone (I'm trusting your math here). But 16% is a small amount you say? How would you feel is someone took away 16% of your money? How would you feel if a witch cast a spell and made you 16% shorter? How would you feel if you had to work 16% harder at your job for the same money? How would you feel if you started losing 16% more hairs per day? 

Edited June 3, 2023 by GoliGoliGoli

[alexmillne]

15 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Nothing he said at 20:15 or past that point contradicts anything I said in the portion you originally quoted me. In fact he's repeating what I said, fin and min work synergistically, but of the two fin is stronger. 

And the graph at 9:05 also repeats my point. Fin + min is 16% better stronger than fin alone (I'm trusting your math here). But 16% is a small amount you say? How would you feel is someone took away 16% of your money? How would you feel if a witch cast a spell and made you 16% shorter? How would you feel if you had to work 16% harder at your job for the same money? How would you feel if you started losing 16% more hairs per day? 

It seems like you weren't' listening at all... don't worry, I will help ya out. I will just paste here his exact words from 20:15 "confident in maintaining your hair forever, then the best thing to do is to start with Finasteride. If you start early you probably will be the only thing you will ever need, but just in case you want a little extra insurance for your hair you can always keep minoxidil on reserve. But you probably don't need it, as the difference is so minuscule.

Edited June 3, 2023 by alexmillne

[GoliGoliGoli]

3 minutes ago, alexmillne said:

It seems like you weren't' listening at all... don't worry, I will help ya out. I will just paste here his exact words from 20:15 "confident in maintaining your hair forever, then the best thing to do is to start with Finasteride. If you start early you probably will be the only thing you will ever need, but just in case you want a little extra insurance for your hair you can always keep minoxidil on reserve. But you probably don't need it, as the difference is so minuscule.

Haha you're just faking his quote. Everything is correct with the quote up until the end when you falsely claim he said: "But you probably don't need it, as the difference is so minuscule."

He never says this in the video.... 

But it doesn't even matter. The graph you says showed 16% increase. Do you think that's small? Do you think losing 16% of your money is no big deal? What if you start losing 16% more hairs per day?

[alexmillne]

1 minute ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Haha you're just faking his quote. Everything is correct with the quote up until the end when you falsely claim he said: "But you probably don't need it, as the difference is so minuscule."

He never says this in the video.... 

But it doesn't even matter. The graph you says showed 16% increase. Do you think that's small? Do you think losing 16% of your money is no big deal? What if you start losing 16% more hairs per day?

I commented on what he said. You probably don't need it, as the difference is so minuscule.

[GoliGoliGoli]

5 minutes ago, alexmillne said:

I commented on what he said. You probably don't need it, as the difference is so minuscule.

Where in the video did he say you probably don't need as the difference is so minuscule?  Or where did you get the impression that this is true? Is 16% miniscule? 

Edited June 3, 2023 by GoliGoliGoli