Rogaine and Propecia Half a dose daily

[Sunny575]

Half a pill propecia and Once a day Rogaine daily . Do this combination work? My doctor said Rogaine once a day will have same results and also half pill propecia will almost have same results compared with full dose. With this combination I think I can reduce possibility of any potential side effects. Any one using the same combo with maximum results? Thanks in advance

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

a 1mg mon wed fri resulted in the same dht levels in me that a 1mg pill everyday did

[rjnebbo]

Yeah I was think the same think about half dosage! Although I have Proscar, which is the same as Propecia just at a higher 5mg dosage.

 

Interesting articles indicating such:

www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dail...0/060700/cp00001.rtf

 

http://www.physics.upenn.edu/p...medres/propcrap3.htm

 

Interesting reading as it tends to indicate that 1mg may be to HIGH of a dose. The article reads:

 

"In view of the fact that the drug must be taken forever to ensure continued and retained hair growth and that there are serious side effects such as impotence, breast enlargement, reduction in ejaculate, and

reductions in the psa score for possible prostate cancer, it seemed imperative that tests of efficacy should have been carried out at low dosages. The efficacy data submitted to the FDA did not possess the statistical accuracy to prefer 1 mg over 0.2 mgs and no studies were shown down to .05 mg.

 

Thus we conclude that the drug should not be approved at the high dosage until data are provided to the FDA showing efficacy studies at the lower dosages of sufficient statistical accuracy and with clear presentations of the effects of systematic errors in the studies."

 

I just purchased my Proscar today and I am thinking of starting at .50mg rather than the 1mg dosage (half of what Merck says). This might be a good idea anyway to see if any side effects happen, although it could take a few weeks to really know. Only thing is these 5mg pills are so small, that trying to make these into 1mg dosages is hard enough, let alone .50mg.

 

I was thinking maybe making a Alcohol tincture out of the crushed up tablets... Hummm

 

10ml of 80 proof Vodka to 1 5mg tablet would give me 10 1ml .50 dosages. I read that Finasteride is freely soluble in Alcohol, but practically insoluble in water. Thus the reason for the Vodka

 

As far as the coating is concerned, Proscar IS NOT enteric coated. Enteric coatings are designed to keep the medication intact until it passes through the stomach and reaches the intestine. The coating may also protect the stomach from irritation (as with coated aspirin and ferrous sulfate).

 

The coating of the Finasteride tablet is to eliminate the risk of drug absorption through the skin of a pregnant woman due to the possible teratogenic effect the drug could have on a male fetus since it blocks the transformation of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone.

 

Apparently the FDA for some unknown reason actually blacked-out, i.e. censored, the actual solubility of Finasteride. However, it is soluble in ethanol. Ethanol is Grain Alcohol, othewise known as Everclear Wink. So why the censoring? I think it is to protect Propecia sales and Everclear is VERY strong! Thus the reason for 80 or 100 proof Vodka.

 

What you guys think?

 

Cheers!

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I think you need AA

Just cut it and take it my friend.

[TonySC]

Sunny 575,

 

I take 2.5 mg of Proscar M-W-F. It is hard to cut the 5 mg Proscar pill into 1/4's and my question is...Is the medicine in the 5 mg evenly distributed ? I would think not and that is why I go with 2.5 mg. And to tell you the truth I had the ED side effects in the first month and now if is like I am on Vigra all the time. So, I have had a positive side effect not a negitive one with ED. Keeps the wife from thinking that you are not attracted to her .

 

Take care.

[Sunny575]

Thanks for your input guys really appreciate it. I have few more questions.

 

Which option is better 1mg EOD or half a pill every day; and Rogaine once a day.

 

And also I am not that much worried about sexual side effects once we quit the drug I expect the side effects to be gone. But how about gyno; this side effect scares me a lot. If the body stops producing excessive estrogen ( due to increase in DHT) will this side goes away or it stays with out any enlargement from there. Can any one clarify this question.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

[Chuckisduck]

Intersting. I take proscar chopped into 1/4th every day. Both those pages 404'd for me. Do you know how effective .5 was a day?

[rjnebbo]

Originally posted by Chuckisduck:

Intersting. I take proscar chopped into 1/4th every day. Both those pages 404'd for me. Do you know how effective .5 was a day?

 

Let me try the link again :

 

www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dail...0/060700/cp00001.rtf

 

http://www.physics.upenn.edu/p...medres/propcrap3.htm

 

And it says in the one paper:

 

As seen in Figure 1, the percent change of DHT for placebo and O.OL-mg Propecia were identical and essentially 0 within a reasonable statistical estimate. The change dropped to 60% for a 0.05mg dose and stayed that way for all doses up to 5 mg.

 

Thus, a 20 times smaller dose than that recommended had the same effect on the DHT. A similar dose dependence was seen for the serum DHT level

 

(Figure 2); the effect was no different with doses above 0.2 mg.

 

Dose dependence also occurs in the accompanying rise in testosterone levels, with about r/loo the 5-mg dose being identical in its effect on the scalp skin testosterone levels

(Figure 3).

 

Typically for a l-month supply, the price of 5 mg of Proscar is$76 for 30 pills, and for 1 mg of Propecia, $54. Therefore, a Propecia user would pay only $15 if he were to cut up the 5-mg Proscar pills.

 

However, the above depletion studies suggest that a dosage of 0.2 mg would be as effective as the 1-mg

 

dose, bringing the price down to $3 for a l-month supply. For the user willing to dissolve the Proscar pill (it is soluble in ethanol), or divide it up by other means, the monthly cost would be $0.76.

 

Later it goes on to say:

"I should not have made the remark about solubility in ethanol since the FDA actually blacked-out, i.e. censored, the actual solubility. "

 

Finasteride is a white crystalline powder with a melting point near 250?°C. It is freely soluble in chloroform and in lower alcohol solvents, but is practically insoluble in water.

 

Good read on this is also found on this board here:

http://hair-restoration-info.c...421067972#2421067972

[rjnebbo]

Originally posted by Sunny575:

Thanks for your input guys really appreciate it. I have few more questions.

 

Which option is better 1mg EOD or half a pill every day; and Rogaine once a day.

 

And also I am not that much worried about sexual side effects once we quit the drug I expect the side effects to be gone. But how about gyno; this side effect scares me a lot. If the body stops producing excessive estrogen ( due to increase in DHT) will this side goes away or it stays with out any enlargement from there. Can any one clarify this question.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

 

The bioavailability following a single dose of finasteride is only 63%, and the presence of food further decreases oral absorption. Approximately 90% is bound to plasma proteins, yet the drug does cross the blood-brain barrier. This is not problematic, since finasteride generally does not affect other hormones. Daily dosing causes accumulation to occur, with plasma concentrations increasing by 50% over levels observed from a single dose. After oral dosing, about half of the unchanged drug is excreted in the feces, and one-third is metabolized in the liver to the 17carboxylic acid, which is then excreted in the urine. The plasma half-life is 5-17 hours.

 

So every day or every other day? My feeling is half pill (.5) every day. but many are doing the every other day (EOD) or even M-W-F with success as well.

 

Rogaine at least once daily, preferred twice though.

[Sunny575]

Thanks rjnebbo for re posting the links again.

 

With that data I see more questions in my mind. If we assume that .2mg is almost as effective as 1mg in reducing the DHT levels then how come lowering dose will reduce side effects. I think side effects will appear on how much damage the pills does to the system rather than how much amount we consume. So in saying if all the dosages between .2 to 1mg does reduce statistically same amount of DHT then body should react in the same way if there are any side effects no matter what the dosage is? I am sorry if you guys didn't get the point.

 

 

Can any one comment on this one?

 

Thanks in advance.

[rjnebbo]

I think I get your point, but it think this would have to do with your Liver metabolizing the Finasteride completely to block DHT. Since it takes only .2mg amount to block the DHT, the excess amount is what causes the problems. The problem is finding out per person what that "sweet spot" is, this is why they do these studies to find out, thus the reason why some have side effects, however these people should be the minority, which Merck claims to be 1.8%. I think this number may be much higher.

 

Which bring me to think of this analogy...

 

Why is it bad to mix medication and alcohol?

 

I'm sure many people know that medication and alcohol don't go together, but not too many know why that is. Often times, we hear stories about a person overdosing on drugs or medications. Usually, the person took normal dosages of the drug, but the alcohol prevents the liver from breaking down the drug. Because the alcohol distracts the liver from breaking down the drug, the drug keeps its high potency, which eventually lead to overdose. Drug companies often know that your liver breaks down the drug before it reaches your body, so they make it with high potencies. However, your liver gives alcohol metabolism higher priority over everything else because it's toxic. Therefore, the drugs will have a high concentration than usual, which ultimately results in an overdose.

 

So, my idea of making a Alcohol tincture is probably a bad idea, as the alcohol will take precedence, however in such small amounts of alcohol (1ml) I wonder if it would matter much.

I wanted to take a .50 dosage, which would mean to cut the Proscar into 10 pieces and the pill is really small. So the alcohol tincture was a idea, but may not be a good one.

[Chuckisduck]

That is very intersting rjnebbo. I am wondering if the drug changes conformation or does not want to come out of solution in the drug. I think that taking .25 mg twice a day would almost completely block the one form of Alpha-2-reductase, due to the half lives of the findasteride.

[Sunny575]

It would be nice if any one of the recommended physician can comment on this graph.

 

I found this image on other hair loss forums. Not sure how many of you guys aware of this graph. This gives DHT serum levels for one dosage over 7 days period. And 0.5mg is almost as effective as 1mg. And DHT levels were same after first and second day does this mean we can take 0.5mg every other day with same benefits as Every day. since I don't see any fluctuations for 1st and 2nd day for 0.5mg dosage. Any comments on this one.

 

 

 

Thanks in advance

[vroompow]

has anyone switched from 1mg propecia a day to .5mg with bad consequences?