Avodart vs. Propecia

[Bushy]

After my recent surgery, Dr. Hasson had me switch from Propecia, which I've been taking successfully for the last 10 or 15 years, to Avodart. Have any of you made the change? If so, what difference did you experience?

[Bushy]

After my recent surgery, Dr. Hasson had me switch from Propecia, which I've been taking successfully for the last 10 or 15 years, to Avodart. Have any of you made the change? If so, what difference did you experience?

[RoboNick]

Interesting, what was meaning of the switch?

[Bushy]

Dr. Hasson wanted my crown area (not covered in surgery) to become thicker. I'm eager to hear from anyone else who has switched what their experience has been.

[Robert_]

I made the switch in November of '04 and I haven't looked back. My crown got thicker after a brief shedding period and my hair as a whole looks better.

 

Recently, my overactive imagination told me that I was developing "gyno" so I took a month off to see what would happened and consulted a few docs. Turns out, it was just me getting flabby from not going to the gym and eating crap. So, yeah. Better safe than sorry and all, but I jumped the gun a bit on that one. I'm back on the Avodart now with no problems. I'll give up my Avodart when someone pries it from my cold, dead fingers.

 

-Robert

[Bushy]

Thanks for your reply, Robert. It's so unusual that some people, like you, swear by it and others report positively horrific experiences.

 

Regarding shedding, is this global? Specifically, if I experience shedding, will it include hairs from my first HT?

[Robert_]

I think many of the horror stories come from guys that that don't give the drug enough time. I could be wrong, though. I would hate to brush off someone that did have a true negative experience as hysteria but the possibility is impossible to ignore.

 

All of my grafts have been placed at the hairline and forelock - basically the front half of my scalp. I never shed there, that I know of. My shedding occurred at the crown, where I was pretty thin to begin with. This started about 1.5 months after I started taking it and lasted to about month 4. It then stabilized for a while and I noticed regrowth that surpassed my baseline at around month 8. From there it was all rainbows. I did use minoxidil 5% twice a day pretty diligently (missing a dose here or there) and Nizoral 2% as well. I have had no percieved side effects.

 

Avodart is not a drug that you will be able to test its efficacy in 3 or 4 months, IMO. It will take a full 12 or even more months to see real results if you are going to get any regrowth. For me, the fact that the shedding phase went away and yielded to regrowth of the shed hair was enough to let me know it was working. The regrowth I got after that really drove the point home. It's no miracle drug but I have been satisfied thus far.

 

I know you'll make a wise choice, Bushy so my next sentence isn't really for you but for anyone else thinking of starting Avodart: please do your research on DHT and DHT-inhibition and it's possible side effects before starting Avodart or even Propecia. I've read posts from and talked via email to way too many guys that started taking one or both of these medications that swear they had utterly horrible experiences. While I feel that many were alarmists that didn't quite understand that internal medicine will have body chemistry implications, I feel that they would have saved themselves a LOT of stress and made a much better choice for their personal situation if they had just read up on the subject before leaping in.

 

I wrote an article on the differences and similarities between Avodart and Propecia that I posted here a few months ago. Maybe it will shed some more light on guys that are still making the decision:

 

Avodart vs. Propecia

 

-Robert

[JakeVig]

Hi Robert,

 

Thanks for the very detailed info on Avodart vs Propecia. Have you actually achieved regrowth and do you know what the chances are that a person would actually achieve some regrowth with Avodart?

[Robert_]

I believe that I have achieved some thickening in the crown due to using Avodart, but just how much I cannot say. I do believe that it did give me regrowth where Proscar did not.

 

I couldn't even begin to speculate how anyone else would fare on the medicine. GSK didn't give out enough information after they stopped trials to make a very educated speculation. Just read up on it as much as you can and make the best decision you can for yourself. If one does decide to start taking it I strongly suggest that they STICK WITH IT for AT LEAST 12 months diligently before making a decision on its efficacy. That's taking it EVERY DAY for 365 consecutive days. Not 3 months. Not 6 months. Not even 9 months. Every day. Too many guys freak out at 4 months saying "It's making my hair fall out!" where in fact, it's just rushing hairs destined for the telegen phase into that phase more quickly. Once they return, and with the addition of minoxidil (which keeps hair in the anagen phase longer) the user should see improvement. At least, this is what happened to me. Your mileage, most certainly, may vary.

 

-Robert

[Bushy]

Originally posted by Robert_:

I believe that I have achieved some thickening in the crown due to using Avodart, but just how much I cannot say. I do believe that it did give me regrowth where Proscar did not.

 

I couldn't even begin to speculate how anyone else would fare on the medicine. GSK didn't give out enough information after they stopped trials to make a very educated speculation. Just read up on it as much as you can and make the best decision you can for yourself. If one does decide to start taking it I strongly suggest that they STICK WITH IT for AT LEAST 12 months diligently before making a decision on its efficacy. That's taking it EVERY DAY for 365 consecutive days. Not 3 months. Not 6 months. Not even 9 months. Every day. Too many guys freak out at 4 months saying "It's making my hair fall out!" where in fact, it's just rushing hairs destined for the telegen phase into that phase more quickly. Once they return, and with the addition of minoxidil (which keeps hair in the anagen phase longer) the user should see improvement. At least, this is what happened to me. Your mileage, most certainly, may vary.

 

-Robert

I got to speak with Dr. Hasson about it yesterday. He told me that he bases his confidence in Dutasteride/Avodart on their own patients: Of the approximately 100 patients they currently have on Avodart, there is one reported complaint, involving nipple tenderness. Growth seems to be solid across the board.

 

I know Dr. Hasson to be a straight-shooter, not a salesman. On several occasions he has voiced crisp criticism of his own work, including certain parts of my pre-op HT #2 hairline last week (which I believe I damaged by using a piece after HT #1). Therefore, when he makes a strong statement I trust him. I am now more hopeful and confident that Avodart will work.

[steve21]

hi bushy, did you ask him how best to transition to avo? did you ask if you should take fin and avo while your body is getting use to avo? cheers and thanks

[Bushy]

Originally posted by steve21:

hi bushy, did you ask him how best to transition to avo? did you ask if you should take fin and avo while your body is getting use to avo? cheers and thanks

 

Steve, that's a great question. Funny you should ask it, because I intended to ask Dr. Hasson about it, but during our conversation there was an emergency and he had to leave abruptly (some patient wasn't feeling well). I will follow up with him later this week and post his reply. Cheers to you, too!

[Robert_]

I can't think of any reason to just take your first Avodart the day after you took your last Propecia. I did it just like that with no problems whatsoever.

 

-Robert

[JakeVig]

Hi Robert,

 

I know that you have done some considerable research on Avodart and I read that you decided to 'front load' your dosage of Avodart for 10 days. This was interesting as I have just read this article:

 

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/newsletter/article189.htm

 

"HairlossTalk has recently learned that Glaxo made a slight modification to its Phase III trials as far as dosing goes. It seems the plan, were they to continue, was to administer 2.5mg daily to the trial participants only for the first six months, and then reduce dosage to 0.5mg for the following six months.*"

 

Do you have any further information about the benefits of an increased dosage of Avodart for a short period of time?

[MrJobi]

Hi Guys

 

I have taken propecia for 7 years with good experience. Doesnt it worry you that Avodart has not been approved for hairloss....... Im reluctant to switch due to side effects of this drug

 

 

commments....

[JakeVig]

Yes I agree that it is a concern that it has not been approved for hair loss by the FDA, but the clinical studies have shown it to be more effective than Propecia. I guess the important thing is that it has still been approved by the FDA for benign prostatic hyperplasia (BPH) so to a certain extent it can be considered safe at least.

 

It seems also that Avodart(dutasteride) has been around since 1995 and has the same side effects of Propecia(finasteride) albeit a bit stronger. Unfortunately though there is no longterm studies on the effects of Avodart as there have been with Propecia, so taking does carry it some risk.

 

The truth is though even though it is not approved for hair loss, many hair loss sufferers have been taking it with some success. Here is a page with literally hundreds of positive feedback on the use of Avodart for hair loss.

http://xenicalwtloss.hypermart.net/AVODARTHairLossPrescriptionINDEXpage.html

 

Also some of the best hair transplant surgeons in the world have started recommending its use over Propecia. I however don't believe anyone should start Avodart without first trying out Propecia for a couple of years. It is a safer alternative and has yeilded good results in some patients.

[Bushy]

I finally got to complete my discussion with Dr. Hasson about this isuue. He was neutral in response to my suggestion of taking both Propecia nad Avodart for a while. He basically feels there's no harm in it, but that it's more or less repetitive. Emphatically, he insisted that if I were to choose this route I should, nonetheless, continue to take the daily Avodart along with Procecia, as opposed to alternating between the two. The Propecia, he reasoned, would basically mimic half of Avodart's work, so there was no scientific reason to believe it would yield any benefit.

 

I'm thinking of just sticking with Avodart and throwing in Prepecia or two every now and then. What do you think?

[JakeVig]

Hi Bushy,

 

If Dr Hanson doesnt have an opinion either way I would consult a doctor that has an opinion only because I have read in a few places not to combine the two. The Medical Wellness Center (http://www.medicalwellnesscenter.com/) specifically states:

 

"Do NOT combine Avodart with finasteride - Proscar or Propecia"

(http://xenicalwtloss.hypermart.net/AVODARTQuestionAnswers.html)

 

Im not sure what the side effects (if any) are but I think you should find out should you choose to ignore the advice. If you do query them I would be interested into their reasoning if any why the two cant be taken together.

 

Hope this helps.

 

PS Bushy your HT transformation is amazing - you must be ecstatic!

[Robert_]

Originally posted by Bushy:

 

I'm thinking of just sticking with Avodart and throwing in Prepecia or two every now and then. What do you think?

 

Why even take them at the same time? Why not just use up the rest of your Propecia and start your Avodart the day after? There has been absolutely no research that I have found (and I have looked) that study the effects of taking both Finasteride and Dutasteride simultaneously. If there were, I am willing to bet that the results would mirror what Dr. Hasson said: that there would be no benefit. If you are in a hurry to start Avodart, just switch over and either ditch your remaining Propecia or give it to another Propecia user you know and save him some cash.

 

-Robert

[Robert_]

Originally posted by JakeVig:

Hi Robert,

 

I know that you have done some considerable research on Avodart and I read that you decided to 'front load' your dosage of Avodart for 10 days. This was interesting as I have just read this article:

 

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/newsletter/article189.htm

 

"HairlossTalk has recently learned that Glaxo made a slight modification to its Phase III trials as far as dosing goes. It seems the plan, were they to continue, was to administer 2.5mg daily to the trial participants only for the first six months, and then reduce dosage to 0.5mg for the following six months.*"

 

Do you have any further information about the benefits of an increased dosage of Avodart for a short period of time?

 

I came across this same info back when I was considering Avodart but I (and my wallet) was unwilling to take 2.5 mg per day for 6 months. I'll look for the information I came across that said that taking 1.5 mg per day for 10 days would bring the user up to optimal levels, basically "plateauing" the drug in your system to get maximum benefit in minimum time.

 

-Robert

[JakeVig]

Robert I would like your opinion on my use of Avodart.

 

Having read the results of the clinical studies that have been done on Avodart it seems like the stronger the dose the better the results over a 6 month period. Using the above information where GSK is considered having patients take a max dose of 2.5mg for 6 months and then later drop their does down to .5mg for the next 6 months.

 

I kind of want to go down this 'experimental route myself' and attack my hairloss hard with Avodart where I want to go on a 1.5mg dosage for 3-6 months and then drop back down to a .5mg after 6 months. The problem is that no doctors are recommending this and that I only got the results of the clinical trials to go with.

 

Do you think this would be too much of a risk and that this approach may cause more harm than good?