kramer

Originally posted by Mrjb:

Hi

 

I think many times we look for other possible reasons why our hair is falling out..

 

Diet

Stress

Allergies

supplements

 

In the end ( I would bet 90%), it is simply MPB

Yes but in my case, it's the transplanted hair. My diet and health are both exceptionally good. I am under great stress though but I work out 4x/week so I don't see how that could be a factor.

Kramer

Originally posted by Timothy Carman, MD:

Kramer-

I have not heard specifically about these two supplements and hair loss, so I can't help as far as an opinion on taking them specifically.

I would like to suggest that you look at this "relationship" against a background of other medications which also list "hairloss" as a possible "side effect". I just randomly typed in that subject and got the following webpage:

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/symptoms/hair_loss/side-effects.htm

Just to keep things in perspective;

My guess would be that it's a possibility, but not necessarily a probability.

Hope that helps.

Tim,

Thanks for the reply and thanks for the link. Hard to believe there are so many things that can cause hair loss. It'll take me a while to go through them all.

I posted those two links because I have been noticing hair loss from the transplanted area (had 3 HT's)and I noticed a short while back that I didn't see as much hair loss during shampooing and combing my hair after I had stopped taking glucosimine and chondroitin for a few months. When I started taking them again, I started to again notice more hair loss. So I did a search for hair loss for those two supplements and I found those two links which I think (but I could be wrong) are credible medical sources. So I posted them in these forums for others to read and take note of.

Anyway, I have since cut down my dosage to 375/300 from 1500/1200 of what I was taking since I found those two links.

Thanks again,

Kramer

Don't know if anybody is aware of this but here it is...

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chondroitin-sulfate/NS_patient-chondroitin

http://www.stjohn.org/HealthInfoLib/swArticle.aspx?26,2270

I've been taking chondroitin and glucosamine for years. I wonder if this is the reason my transplanted hair is thinned?

- Kramer

Don't know if anybody is aware of this but here it is...

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/chondroitin-sulfate/NS_patient-chondroitin

http://www.stjohn.org/HealthInfoLib/swArticle.aspx?26,2270

I've been taking chondroitin and glucosamine for years. I wonder if this is the reason my transplanted hair is thinned?

- Kramer

Originally posted by JohnS:

There are only 3 shampoos proven to have hair growth effects, Nano, Tea Tree Oil Shampoo, Nizoral. Using all 3 in an alternate fashion would be the most efficacious route.

Here is the link that mentions some possible negative effects of using tea tree oil shampoo.

http://www.newscientist.com/channel/health/dn11075-natu...ng-boys-breasts.html

From the above link:

Three young boys grew breast tissue after exposure to lotions and shampoos containing lavender or tea tree oil, researchers say.

 

It is not uncommon for boys to develop breast tissue during puberty or just after, but the boys affected by the plant oils were aged four, seven and 10.

 

The natural oils may be "gender-bending" chemicals mimicking effects of the female hormone, oestrogen, the findings suggest. The boys were otherwise normal, and lost the breast tissue within months of discontinuing use of the products.

 

Researchers who identified the oils as the cause of the abnormalities in the three pre-pubertal boys have warned parents and doctors to beware of the effects of any toiletry products containing the oils.

Kramer

Originally posted by yay4mpb:

the study is just trying to say that sprinting 30 seconds boosts hgh levels up much higher than sprinting for 6 seconds... which i find completely common sense. sprinting for 6 seconds? im suprised hgh would go up any in 6 seconds... i agree with you about getting checked out if you feel you may have cardiovascular or heart or blood vessel problems but just to prevent a heart attack... hgh is a good thing any exercise you can do that will stimulate a natural production is a good thing... look at the difference in builds between a sprinter and a marathon runner...big difference .. the marathon runners look totally depleted like an ethiopian chasing after their next meal from all the cortisol and damage from running for that length of time... while sprinters just sprint for 30 seconds or so at a time then rest while their bodys produce hgh for hours afterwords.

You know, I've noticed this (runner vs sprinter body types) but never thought much as too why. Now you got me thinking about going out and running a few sprints... :-)

Seriously, since I've read that article, sometimes when I ride the bike at the gym, I'll go full speed (sprint like) on it for the last 45 seconds or so just to get a free blast of HGH.

Kramer

Originally posted by hairbank:

Don't know how you could ever cut down to .1 mg..............I do believe several cut it down to .5mg and take that daily. I take 1.25mg every other day which pretty much equates to the same thing. Yes, I do believe you can take a .5mg dosage daily with effectiveness. As I've said before, I was told by Dr. Wong that Finaseride actively inhibits DHT in the body for 72 hours so a daily dose isn't necessary. It has been working for me as I have mild regrowth. I don't see why .5mg daily is differnt than 1mg (or 1.25mg) every other day.

Thanks hairbank,

Actually, I just wanted to cut a propecia pill in half to 0.5mg/day. However, I wouldn't mind taking a full pill every other day. Either way, I am going to verify these options with a medical professional (I'm not calling you a liar or saying your wrong). I believe you but I just want to make sure before I make the change.

Kramer

Originally posted by hairbank:

If you've had 3 HT's, how is the hair from HT's #1 and #2? Has it ever thickened after going through a period of time where it got thin and wispy?

One other comment. I noticed that you (and many others here in these forums) use Nizoral and Nioxin. I've never used these until about 4 or so months ago when I started using Head and Shoulders 4x/week and Nizoral 2x/week with my wife's shampoo the rest of the time. However, about a week ago, I started using Nioxin and Nizoral (2x/week) and I have since noticed that there is less hair in my hands when shampooing my hair. This has to be my imagination, right?

Kramer

Originally posted by hairbank:

If you've had 3 HT's, how is the hair from HT's #1 and #2? Has it ever thickened after going through a period of time where it got thin and wispy?

Not really. What seemed to happen was that once it really started to come in, it slowly over time seemed to thin out. I'm sure that some of this was original (untransplanted) hair falling out. But I am positive that the original transplanted hair also fell out. Even my doc said he thought this and asked me all kinds of questions regarding taking different types medicines and supplements in order to see if it was something I was taking. About the only other explantion I can think of is stress. I have been under great stress for about 4 or so years. However, I go to the gym 4x/week and do 30 minutes of aerobic (bike) excersise followed by about 1 and a half hours of lifting weights (non-stop since the '80's). So I would think that this would nullify the effects of stress.

Kramer

The following shows the result of exercising and HGH:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retri...137178&dopt=Abstract

I'm not sure but I think it says that the harder the people sprinted, the more HGH their bodies produced.

If this is correct (and I'm not sure it is as it's in doctor speak), I would recommend NOBODY start sprinting until you get a doctor's checkup AND are in shape.

Kramer

I read in the following link ( http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/366...406090861#3406090861 ) that a doctor told his patient that you only need 0.1 milligrams of propecia and it will still work.

Does anybody know if this is true? If it is, then I could cut the pills in half and save money.

Thanks,

Kramer

For what it's worth, I read in Men's Health (about 6 or so months ago) that Nizoral and Head & Shoulders had a slight effect on reducing hair loss (it didn't say why). So I use Nizoral 2x week and Head & Shoulders about 3x week. The rest of the time, I use whatever shampoo my wife uses (and I now may try Nioxin)

One comment on tea leaf shampoos. I just heard recently on the news that it had some kind of negative affect on males (where it did something like increase a female homrone or something. I don't remember exactly.)

Kramer

Originally posted by hairbank:

Kramer-

 

Are you saying the hair from your most recent HT didn't ever fall out, grew for 3 months and is now falling out? Just want to make sure I understand you correctly. If your HT hair comes in thick and then thins over time, yes, that is the reverse of what should happen. ALL hair falls out periodically..........about 10-15% of the hair on your hair is in its resting phase at any given time. Could be it takes your hair longer to get back in a "normal" cycle after HT's??

 

 

 

Do you take propecia, use minox, or anything else that may contribute to your dilemma? Have you checked with your Doc to get some professional advice? If so, what did he say?

What happened was that the transplanted hairs fell out (the little 1/4 inch or so stubs that were left over from the transplant.) This happened about 2 to 4 weeks after the transplant. About 3 to 4 months later, the hair was coming in nicely but now it's getting thinner and seems to be falling out.

Somebody told me that once the transplated hair starts growing, this new hair will shed and then come in permanently. I don't think this is the case.

By the way, this is my 3rd HT and I noticed the same thing with the first 2 HT's (after a few months of nice new hair, it starts getting really thin and then falls out).

I take propecia and use 2% minoxidal so I don't get flaking (but double the dosage of it so it's close to 5%). Several times a week, I also run warm to hot water on my head for a few minutes in the shower so that the pores open up (and to increase the blood flow to the scalp. I read that somebody else here does this). I then immediately apply the rogaine.

My Doc said I may be taking too much Vitamin A. So I've cut back from 10,OO IU per day to about 2500 IU per day. I made this change about 1.5 to 2 years ago so it shouldn't be affecting me today.

One other thing. I know this sounds crazy, but every day, I can run my fingers through my scalp and I feel a little bump here and there (in the transplanted area). When I grab one and look at them, I usually see a tiny or small sized hair coming out of it. It almost looks to me like the follicle shrunk, died, and then the skin expelled it.

My doctor said it's imposssible for the follicle to come out (unless you pick it and get blood which of course, I would never do.) I gave him some to look at but, he never checked them.

I did bring some of these to another HT doc (a well respected and well known HT doctor) and he said that they aren't follicles (but he also said he never seen this before). If I get another HT, I am going to use the well respected HT doc (not that my doc is bad, he's rep is ok and he's been around for a while).

Kramer.

About the only medicine I've heard of that sounds like it may work someday is this:

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=123198&p=ir...ID=505457&highlight=

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=123198&p=ir...ID=833989&highlight=

Kramer

Originally posted by the B spot:

Without trying to throw around a bunch of useless medical terms---- your transplanted hairs should be placed at a depth of 3.5--4.5mm, which should be about the same depth as your native hair.

 

You should not be able to discern a transplanted hair from a native hair if both exist in the same area.

 

Take Care,

J

What I've noticed is that at first when the hair comes in, it's quite thick (like the other hair around the back or sides of my head). However, over time, it gets thinner (smaller in diameter) and then seems to fall out.

I've decided that I'm not a good HT transplant subject. I don't understand as I am really healthy.

I almost considering getting a laser comb to see if that will help keep that transplated hair growing normally.

Kramer

I've got some pre-HT pics from the doc's office. If I can find them, I'll have to scan them in first with a digital camera and then I'll post them.

So if I find them, where do I post these pics? In the message box (like this) or into another area of this site?

Thanks for the response by the way. I was hoping that somebody would have said that once the hair has been in a few months and has been growing for a month or so, that it would then fall out and re-grow normally after because my new hair which has been growing for about 3 months appears to be falling out. What I don't understand is that I have been working out non-stop 4x/week since the early 1980's, never smoked, don't take drugs, and drink maybe 1 beer per month. I also eat really well and take supplements. In short, I am really healthy. It must be that I'm not a good HT candidate. (I know there are other factors such as where the hair is taken from. I know that this hair was taken from well below the bald spot. Same for the other times I had a HT.)

Thanks again Bill. I'll try to find those pics..

Kramer

Originally posted by Bill:

 

Please do me a favor and do NOT try to do this...for your own sake! Besides, if you indeed tried this and were successful, you would see blood. Removing a hair follicle typically doesn't happen by plucking anyway - hence the need to use FUE (Follicular Unit Extraction) to remove the hair follicle.

 

Bill

I didn't mean pluck out a follicle. I meant pluck out a hair. When you do this, you sometimes get a gel type substance at the end of the hairshaft where it came out of the skin.

I was talking with someone who had a hair transplant and told him about my transplanted hair coming out. He said that he heard that after the transplanted hair starts growing, it then falls out and then starts growing normally.

Is this true and if it is, how long does it take before you notice this? It's been about 6 months since my last procedure.

Kramer

Originally posted by Bill:

kramer,

 

I'm not sure how you can tell if your grafts are as deep as your native hair since the follicle is well beneath the surface of the skin. Loosing hair while combing has nothing to do with how deep the follicle is. Keep in mind that all hairs (including transplanted grafts) go through cycles and shedding is a normal part of that cycle. The 15 or so hairs you lost could have been 1) normal hairs (grafted or native) just shedding as part of a normal cycle or 2) native hairs that are weak and will eventually wither away due to MPB.

 

So "Is it normal for transplanted hair to easily come out" actually isn't really the case here. The transplanted follicle is not coming out...if it did, there would be some bleeding to indicate that.

 

So your last question about hairs in your hand during a shower...yes, it is normal for hair to shed...but the grafted hair will grow back whereas native hair affected by MPB may not if it is on it's way out.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Bill

 

Bill

Thanks Bill. Just wanted to see what was normal fallout for transplanted hair.

Regardomg how you can tell how deep the follicle is for a transplanted hair, about the only way I can tell (which may or may not be accurate) is to pluck both a transplanted hair and an untransplated hair and look at the base of the hairs. Usually, the untransplanted hair has a larger gel looking ball or bulb where it came out of the skin.

Thanks again for answereing.

Kramer

I've had 3 transplants. I just noticed today that when I ran a comb through my wet hair (which still had some hairspray in it so the comb didn't glide as easily as it should have), I picked up about 15 hairs! This was in the morning right after I woke up (so I might have loosened some up during sleep).

And it seems to me that the transplanted hair on top of my head isn't in my head as deep as an untransplanted hair on the side of my head.

Some questions:

Is it normal for transplated hair to easily come out when running a comb through it when its wet? (Or have any of you ever noticed this with your transplanted hair)?

Has anybody ever noticed that their transplated hair on the top of your heads doesn't seem to be in as deep as an untransplated hair? (in other words, if you plucked a transplated and untransplanted hair, the untransplanted hair would pull out much harder and/or have a larger ball type of base attached to it).

Also, what is considered normal hair loss (once your transplanted hair has been in for a year or so) when taking a shower? I usually see around 5 or so hairs in my hand. Is this normal?

Thanks to all who answer.

Kramer

I've had 3 transplants. I just noticed today that when I ran a comb through my wet hair (which still had some hairspray in it so the comb didn't glide as easily as it should have), I picked up about 15 hairs! This was in the morning right after I woke up (so I might have loosened some up during sleep).

And it seems to me that the transplanted hair on top of my head isn't in my head as deep as an untransplanted hair on the side of my head.

Some questions:

Is it normal for transplated hair to easily come out when running a comb through it when its wet? (Or have any of you ever noticed this with your transplanted hair)?

Has anybody ever noticed that their transplated hair on the top of your heads doesn't seem to be in as deep as an untransplated hair? (in other words, if you plucked a transplated and untransplanted hair, the untransplanted hair would pull out much harder and/or have a larger ball type of base attached to it).

Also, what is considered normal hair loss (once your transplanted hair has been in for a year or so) when taking a shower? I usually see around 5 or so hairs in my hand. Is this normal?

Thanks to all who answer.

Kramer

Originally posted by Bill:

 

 

1. Are you using Nizoral shampoo? I know I had some problems making my hair very dry and appearing thinner than it actually was. Overuse of this shampoo or any heavily medicated dandruff shampoo can kill your hair. If this is the case, stop using Nizoral or any heavily medicated shampoo or cut it down significantly

I have recently started using both Nizoral (about 2 times per week) as well as head and shoulders on most of the other days I am not using Nizoral. I have been doing this for about 3 months. I read in Men's health that using these shampoos helps in hair loss. Now I'm not so sure...

Do you have any links that have info. on this?

Originally posted by Bill:

2. Did you start taking Propecia, Minoxodil or any other form of medication? Shedding here is normal...the hair will start to grow back in about 3 months (this is true for Propecia and Minox...however, check with your medical doctor about any other medication)

Been taking Propecia and Minoxidal for years. I've just switched back to 2% Minoxidal because the 5% was giving me massive dandruff. I was told by a doctor that you can double the dose of 2% to get the 5% and you won't get the dandruff and skin flaking. So far, I have had no skin flaking by doubleing the dose of 2%.

Originally posted by Bill:

3. You could be experiencing shedding (either due to the above) or which is a normal part of any hair life cycle. See the below post and look for Spex's response. He did a great job explaining the shedding process.

 

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=151062

Thanks, I'll check it out.

Originally posted by Bill:

4. The only other possibility I can see if you are REALLY losing transplanted hair that will not grow back is if your HT doc extracted donor hair outside of the safe zone. What that basically means is that this donor hair was in an area that could be affected by Dehydro-testosterome (DHT). So I'll ask it this way...have you started losing any hair around the strip scar? (Did you have strip surgery?) If you had FUE, are you losing any hair in the donor area where the FUE hairs were taken?

 

I hope this helps direct you in the right place.

 

Bill

I had strip surgery where they cut a strip of hair from the sides of my head down to the lower back part of my head. I am not losing hair around the strip area but of course, the hair is a little less in some of the strip areas due to I believe, the stitching of the skin.

Thanks again Bill...

Kramer

Originally posted by Bill:

Kramer,

 

See my other post to your other message...but being just 2 months post op...you could easily be still experiencing temporary shock or shedding that will stop shortly and should all grow back!

 

Bill

Thanks for the response. Right now, I'm not losing to much during shampooing but I have noticed hair loss since HT 3 which is probably shock loss as you said.

I am curious as to how much hair loss others are seeing when they shampoo.

Thanks for the response Bill.

Kramer

I've noticed that some of my transplanted hair has thinned in addition to some of my original hair. Has anybody else experienced any of their transplanted hair thinning and falling out over a course of a few years or more?

My first HT was about 3 years ago, my second about 1.5 years ago, and my third just over 2 months ago.

I think some of my recent (in the last two months) hair loss is due to shock from HT 3. However, I have noticed some thinning of the transplanted hair before HT 3. I have also noticed considerable hair loss during shampooing but I think it may have been my original hair that was on the top of my head just in front of the bald spot.

I am in great health (been working out 4x/week continually (non-stop) since 1983 with 30 minutes of cardio and 2 hrs of weight lifting each day), never smoked, don't take drugs, drink maybe 1 beer per month, take vitamins and eat farily good. I don't think I have any health issues that could be causing hair loss. The only thing I can think of that may be causing my hair to thin is that I have been under incredible stress resulting in constant worrying the last 1 and a half years due to not being able to find a job. Do stress and worrying cause hair loss? If so, when I find a job and the stress if gone, will the transplanted hair that fell out due to stress come back?

Kramer

I've noticed that some of my transplanted hair has thinned in addition to some of my original hair. Has anybody else experienced any of their transplanted hair thinning and falling out over a course of a few years or more?

My first HT was about 3 years ago, my second about 1.5 years ago, and my third just over 2 months ago.

I think some of my recent (in the last two months) hair loss is due to shock from HT 3. However, I have noticed some thinning of the transplanted hair before HT 3. I have also noticed considerable hair loss during shampooing but I think it may have been my original hair that was on the top of my head just in front of the bald spot.

I am in great health (been working out 4x/week continually (non-stop) since 1983 with 30 minutes of cardio and 2 hrs of weight lifting each day), never smoked, don't take drugs, drink maybe 1 beer per month, take vitamins and eat farily good. I don't think I have any health issues that could be causing hair loss. The only thing I can think of that may be causing my hair to thin is that I have been under incredible stress resulting in constant worrying the last 1 and a half years due to not being able to find a job. Do stress and worrying cause hair loss? If so, when I find a job and the stress if gone, will the transplanted hair that fell out due to stress come back?

Kramer

I'm curious as to how much hair loss during shampooing people with HT's are experiencing.

I noticed after my second HT, I lost probably 10 to 20 hairs during each shampoo and this went on for about a year. I think most of it was my original hair as I had transplanted hair put in and around my original hair that was at the top of my head.

Right now, I see 2 to 5 hairs per shampoo and I'm just past the 2 months of my 3rd HT. I hope this is normal...

Kramer