Dr. Alan Feller

Dr. Feller there you go with the word play, we were speaking hypothetically, you stated if a patient had a poor results and saw Dr. Bhattis video that it would be grounds for a class action suit here in the states. I never said I couldn't tell the difference nor did I say I was a layman, I was speaking about your average patient who's never seen a procedure performed. . With that being said the key word was poor result, I will withhold my judgement until I see the final result.

You are not a layman?

question for dr feller,

 

do you have the skills and technique to do what dr bhatti is doing in that video?

 

No long winded political answers, a simple yes or no will suffice.

yes i do

How would a layman be able to deduce speed FUE to regular FUE?

Now you're a layman? In every other post you are a surgical expert ! But I'll help you out:

Just look at my video and compare it to Dr. Bhatti's video. Mine is regular FUE and his is speed FUE. Don't want to go by my FUE technique, fine, there are several other videos of FUE doctors doing extractions out there. Compare to those. Hint: Dr. Bhatti's is the "speed FUE" and he's proud of it.

Well, maybe not that proud of it since he edited the video to exclude as much actual extraction as he could.

Sigh. This field is a little depressing. Why are there doctors that claim to get better or comparable results to FUT and that is why they switched to FUE exclusively? Why do some top clinics seem to get consistent high yields via FUE? I don't doubt that FUT gets a higher yield but the question is how much more? A 35% higher yield would be significant but 5% not so much. In my research, I do see that a lot of American Doctors promote FUT more but a few just state that FUT is good if you want one procedure to do a mega session vs. multiple to extract the same amount via FUE. The best thing anyone can do regardless of technique is go to a reputable doctor that stands by their work.

Lileli,

That's why using numbers and statistics can be misleading. People aren't numbers or statistics. The only thing that matters is what's going to actually happen to them, not what the statistical chances are.

Let's say YOU were the person who received only 70% growth from your FUE. Then as far as you're concerned the chances of 70% growth is 100%. It doesn't matter how the next guy grows if you didn't grow to your MAXIMUM potential.

But there is no way to know this until AFTER you've done the FUE.

So why would an FUE patient only grow 70% ? It could be x-factor which is unpredictable and uncontrollable. OR it can be due to the number one reason hair transplants fail to grow well: graft mishandling. That's not to say all FUE practitioners are negligent in graft handling, but because it is inherent to the FUE procedure itself and is unavoidable.

Of course x-factor can reduce the growth rate of an FUT as well. But it doesn't have the added and more significant detriment of the graft mishandling inherent to FUE.

So if HT is a game of chance you must pick the best surgeon AND the best procedure. It's clear that FUT is right choice for "procedure". After that you just have to pick the best FUT practitioner. Unfortunately there is quite a range out there to pick from so you would have to do your homework.

The key word Dr. Feller is poor result, I think anyone with a poor result would do the following, as a matter of fact if I had a thick slab of meat butchered out of my head id be a lot quicker to file a class action suit.

 

Mav I've never said don't be objective, but to heckle the dr in to apologizing then the next minute defend him is odd and shocking to me to be honest.

Taking a donor strip would not be grounds for a class action lawsuit because while frightening to the lay observer it treats the grafts as delicately as can be treated. That's why it became the mainstream in less than five years of its introduction and is still the mainstream today. It produces the most reliable results and is why the overwhelming number of HT doctors perform it.

FUE on the other hand, especially "speed FUE" as seen in the Bhatti video subjects the grafts to greater trauma. You honestly don't see that?

Dr Feller, you fighting an losing battle. These guys will aways see themselves better and more knowledgeable than hair restoration surgeons. In my eyes they are making an mockery with their comments; they have no knowledge of the medical aspects and the training it requires. And somehow they are the so called experts!

 

Matt's result is one of the greatest patient posted results out there. I wish I had hair like that!

Yes Yaz, I know what you're saying and understand that.

I have no allusions that I will convince most of these anonymous posters of reality. That is not my goal and in many cases not possible.

When the silent majority read these threads they are not stupid, they can see who is acting rationally, who is acting emotionally, and who is acting disingenuously.

Even after personal attacks, insults, and distractions the truth percolates up to the surface. That's why there are over 50,000 views, the public is hungry for real information on FUE and FUT and which procedure is best for them. It's all right here, and they know it.

People read these posts and say I don't have a good "bedside manner". Well, an internet forum is no "bedside". It can be a brutal and unfair place and the appropriate attitude must be developed and adopted to be able to use it as a tool to get your message out.

Let me ask the members of the community a couple of questions with respect to Dr. Bhatti's technique as demonstrated int he video:

If YOU or your loved one were the patient depicted in that video and you wound up with a poor result, would you assign any of the failure to the indiscriminate squeezing, ripping, and raking you witnessed ?

If you were this patient and the result was poor, would you not take this video to Dr. Bhatti and say you clearly mishandled my grafts I want my money back?

If you were this patient and had a poor result and then saw this video would you not ask Dr. Bhatti if there was a more gentile procedure he could have performed that would not have necessitated so much graft trauma? Would you not ask why he didn't inform you of the more gentile alternative? And would you not be upset that you were not informed that this more gentile method was the worlds mainstream method for HT?

Because in the United States this video would be the open door for a class action lawsuit on behalf of any and all patients who did not grow well.

Matt

 

To be fair most Dr's successful at fue don't need to debate this or refute Dr fellers claims, their results already do that!

 

And to be fair there hasn't been and strip surgeons on here either backing up Dr fellers claims, so by that rationale I take it strip surgery must be a failure also? Of course not, they don't need to they go about their business! I think most Dr's couldn't be bothered what Dr feller claims or says as it won't effect ghem or their business!

How is a strip surgeon going to back up my claims of FUE disruptive forces? They don't perform it, so how can they comment with authority? But you might ask them WHY they don't perform FUE. Start a thread on that and see the responses. It would be more interesting than this one if you can get the doctors to come on and post.

The debate is not FUT vs. FUE. FUT has already established it's dominance. No need to defend it. It's FUE on trial and I made it very clear what it's problems are from someone who performs them.

Just pointing to results is not good enough. They do not refute my claims in the slightest. There are many beautiful and thick results out there from plugs, scalp reductions, and flaps. But you don't see those procedures being performed anymore do you?

Now look at how Dr. Bhatti performed his technique in his video. After I pointed out the brutality of this technique and showed how it supports my contention that FUE is more traumatic to the grafts than FUT he edited the video and quietly slipped it into his post after the fact. That means nothing to you? Honestly?

This thread does need to be put back on track.

The title of the topic is that FUT is more popular than FUE. And it is. For all the vitriol and personal attacks and input of Dr. Bhatti and Dr. Vories the fact remains that FUT is in fact more popular than FUE for whatever reason. The internet perception that the opposite is true is false. And this was the reason I created the thread.

Dr. Bhatti injected himself as the champion of FUE and forcefully claimed that if he debated me he could demonstrate that FUE does not inflict more damage on the grafts compared to FUT-particularly in his hands. However, he never joined the debate nor addressed the undeniable facts I brought up. Instead he utilized evasion and distraction that in a real contest would have gotten him disqualified.

He put up a video to demonstrate his superior technique. But he confused speed with technique. And in showing the video he unwittingly demonstrated even to the lay eye the destructive consequences of trading technique for speed. And in doing this he directly showed two of the three detrimental forces I have been warning everyone about but which he claims do not exist.

His own video became such a prima facia statement in support of my claims that he actually edited it down and blurred out the sections of the surgery. And if that weren't enough, he went back into his own post and edited out the original link to the first video and substituted in the second video. He never wrote a word about that maneuver and neither did his paid representatives.

Forgetting about whether you understand or care about the points being debated between he and I, these actions speak volumes and can rightly be termed "consciousness of guilt" and "tampering with the evidence".

I have remained on point that FUE is brutal to the grafts compared to FUT. Dr. Bhatti has not refuted that. He has claimed that OTHER FUE clinics inflict greater damage to grafts compared to his technique. And this may well be true. But that video shows beyond any shadow of a doubt that his FUE technique is brutal on grafts compared to FUT and he knows it. Why would he otherwise change the video, try to cover up the evidence, and do everything he could to distract from it?

Folks, it's YOUR scalp, but use your brains to see what is going on here. Cut out all the hype, and character assassination, and partisan cheerleaders, and really read the points I've made and how Dr. Bhatti addressed (or avoided) them. Then look at what he did to his patient in the original video and ask why he made such radical changes to that video and then re posted it on the sly. Does that seem like a man who believes in the rightness of what he is doing? Does that seem like a man who is being honest and transparent?

Go to post number 1174 and click the links for the original video and then the edited video. I believe this speaks for itself.

1. Multiple doctors disagree with one another so I believe there are multiple doctors that get good results with their own preferred technique.

 

2. I have seen multiple videos uploaded by multiple doctors. I inspect my own doctor's private collection of pictures and videos documenting results.

 

I am in the camp that will grow my hair back. Yes, I want to avoid the linear scar as much as possible but I am even willing to do the fade option Dr. Feller talked about. I just believe a lot more bad results should be out there from top FUE doctors if the FUE technique was so undependable. Again, this seems more art than science. If my own FUE procedure fails( I am at the 2 month mark) I will do FUT next time. So , I don't have an ideological affiliation here.

Lileli,

Here is a link to a patient who visited last week after FUT we did on him two years ago. He uses a fade cut and could even go lower if he wanted to:

Fade cut after 1,800 graft FUT

Dr Feller,

 

I think if he was trying to play a fast one, he would taken the first video down completely which he didn't do. The debate has now really fallen off.

If he took the first one down completely it would have been too obvious.

No lileli, this was well thought out, deliberate, and purposefully executed quietly for a reason.

Dr Bhatti, what exactly is your point here? Both are obviously promoting an agenda that overlaps - so what? How does it result in less credibility to Dr Feller and specifically this topic. Fact - they both prefer strip FUSS; Fact - they don't believe in large FUE mega-sessions; Fact - they believe FUT is more popular and a better procedure than FUE; Fact - they have come up with a new procedure to address the problem - mFUE. Yes, they are all obvioulsy related, but so what? To me they are simply presenting what they view as a problem, and then a solution. What exactly is wrong with this?

Bravo, Mav !

Doesn't get more to the point than that.

Thank you.

DR. BHATTI HAS SEVERLY EDITED HIS FUE EXTRACTION VIDEO ON THE SLY. DID ANY OF YOU CATCH IT?

On 8/14/15, Dr Bhatti posted a video of him performing an FUE megasession. The video was unedited and lasted for 15 minutes and 10 seconds.

See the video for yourself here:

To this date, the video has 359 views.

From this point forward, Dr Bhatti began a diversion campaign to get people's attention away from this video which included attacking me as usual and making sweeping generalizations that were not on point.

Then on 8/22/15, something interesting happened:

Dr Bhatti went back and edited his original post. He replaced the original link with a link to a new edited version of the video. This new video only lasted 10 minutes and 57 seconds, has 89 views, and is highly edited. Specifically, he shortened it by a third and placed a " blur-cone" feature over most of the surgical field while performing FUE to hide the worst of his technique that I had pointed out. And he did all this silently without mentioning it on this or any other thread. Not even his two paid representatives happened to mention it.

Why edit the video if it was a prime and proud example of his FUE technique? Why did he blur out portions I specifically identified as examples of detrimental FUE forces? I'll leave that to you viewers to figure out.

Here is the newly edited video. See for yourself here:

Also of note is that this video cannot be embedded into the forums like his original one could.

Anybody think something's up here?

How are these just distractions? You didn't bring up mFUE but your partner did, is it coincidence that this thread was started around the same time as FUEvsFUTvsMFUE. Bill even questioned why mFUE is called mFUE when it doesn't have anything to do with FUE. Did you really think the dots wouldn't be connected? It's been one smear campaign after another with you and your colleagues, as a patient I question why? Then conveniently you present the ultimate alternative very convenient indeed. In my opinion, you went about it the wrong way and now it's backfired on you and your partners. It all started with you calling Seth a representative instead of a patient, you intentionally led me to believe he was being paid. That was flat out wrong, why didn't you correct me? Why did you call Seth a representative and not a patient? Why would a patient even have monetary incentives? This thread has backfired on you and it's been your own doing.

HTsoon,

Since you are a believer in the "mFUE marketing" conspiracy. Can you please count for us how many references to mFUE have been made throughout this entire thread of over 1,167 posts? And then tell us how many were from either me or Dr. Bloxham?

Thank you.

Dr Feller. Here are some photo's of the shock loss i am describing. I recovered completely from a larger procedure in April 2014, but a tiny 30 graft procedure to the centre of my hairline has done this damage, 2-3 inches away in my left temple area. I think i am noticing some small improvement but it is very, very slow....

 

Again, thanks for taking the time to offer your thoughts.

 

[ATTACH]83377[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]83378[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]83379[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]83380[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]83381[/ATTACH]

 

[ATTACH]83382[/ATTACH]

I honestly can't tell from those photos what's going on. Could you send me before photos of before your first and second surgeries and then label the after photos ?

If you could visit me that would be best. If you aren't around here maybe you could try:

Virginia -Dr. Lindsey

Chicago-Dr. Konior

Arizona- Dr. Alexander

Oregon State-Dr. Gabel

Or any other high profile doctors like Rahal, H@W, or the Shapiro bros., etc...

Conspiracy theories now? Seriously? Utterly ridiculous.

Everybody, this is just a distraction. Don't fall for these diversion tactics.

I never brought up mFUE nor the marketing of it. This has nothing to do with the real "FUE vs. FUT" issues. Dr. Bhatti is just writing these things to distract your attention. He knows his video made my points for me and now he wants to change the subject as much as he can to get away from it.

Look past the personal attacks, partisan cheering, character assassination and see that Dr. Bhatti has not engaged the debate he claimed he wanted nor answered any direct questions put to him.

I contend that FUE visits more trauma on follicles during extraction compared to FUT and therefore FUT grafts grow better and more reliably. He said he could refute my claim easily. But he hasn't.

If anybody can watch that video of his and show me where his technique isn't absolutely brutal to the follicles compared to any other (FUE or FUT) then I am listening.

I'll admit, I have been a bit of smart ass towards Dr Feller - i do apologise

I did not see this until today.

Thank you. I accept your apology.

Dr Feller,

 

#1053 was a direct quote from you. That is black & white.

 

 

 

 

 

Well I do find it and you to be extremely offensive an unprofessional and can't imagine many disagreeing with my statement.

 

My brother has a learning disability, as well as my sister have being a special education teacher for over 15 years now. If you empathized and understood what they are dealing with on a day to day basis I would hope you wouldn't continue make light of it.

 

Lets not try and use your hometown (Brooklyn) as an excuse to make this more socially acceptable. I don't think this is something that you are going to get a lot of support on regardless of the location worldwide or even in your hometown.

I don't make any excuses and I don't apologize. Amazing how you are so offensive and nasty and yet so sensitive. You aren't fooling anyone.

Of course he did.

 

If he didn't he would threaten litigation as he has in the past with his unhappy patient(s). This has happened in the past when his patients results were poor and they presented them to the forums.

 

That is what I look for in a physician when things don't work out! Pardon the sarcasm.

 

Class act....

Another lie.

I have never threatened a patient with litigation because patients were unhappy and posted on forums. Every doctor gets that from time to time. I have, however, actually brought litigation against patients who have defamed me, attempted to blackmail me, or legally harassed me. You should hope you are never the victim of these types of people.

No intention to be sneaky whatsoever, regardless of how you interpret my post.

 

Again he is your direct quote;

#1053

 

 

 

 

Feel free to answer the other questions I have asked several times now. We are all looking forward to those answers.

No intention to be sneaky?! You cherry picked two words, added your own, then passed it off as a quote of MINE in the form of a quote used by this chat forum software. Who do you think you're kidding? That's as sneaky as it gets.

It is this very kind of behavior that keeps almost all doctors from posting in these chat sites leaving the public to fumble around in the dark as you all so often do.

Sorry Doc, you definitely said it, although not in that context of directly stating that the members have learning disabilities. Regardless, as an uncle to a nephew that has a learning disability himself, I found that comment to be offensive. With all due respect sir, using that term to make a point is highly inappropriate and unprofessional. You as a Doctor should know better. It's a serious problem impact many families. You have made some outstanding points on this thread, and I have a lot of respect for what you are trying to do here, but using that term the way you did was wrong.

He made up the quote and was very sneaky about it. He cherry picked two words and then added his own and then went the extra mile to make them appear in the form of a highlighted forum quote. Very sneaky.

I also have a nephew with a learning disability and don't find this turn of phrase to be offensive, inappropriate or unprofessional. Where I come from, Brooklyn NY, this is not offensive. You also found reference to "peanut gallery" as offensive. In this country it is a common phrase that refers to the audience as a third party and has no negative connotation whatsoever. I think you need to appreciate that when you participate on an international chat site that other people and cultures use different turns of phrases that you may find questionable or offensive from time to time.

Frankly, I find politically correct speech to be offensive as it is used far too often as a sword rather than a shield.

I can assure you, my use of "learning disabled" nor "peanut gallery" are pejorative.

To be sure though, when I am attacked I have to use harsher language which is directed at that particular person who attacked me. Disingenuous types like Was and Seth and the Bhatti clan cherry pick my words, or just invent new ones, and pass them off as something I said in general about everyone. Of course it's not true, but whose going to go back and catch them like we did with Waz?

have another cry Feller

Seth,

How does this childishness contribute anything?

Lileli,

Here is the exact quote from Dr. Feller you were curious about (1053)

 

 

 

As I suggested earlier an insensitive and classless choice of words by Dr. Feller which seems to be the norm.

 

Also it is apparent that again he simply glossed over the specific questions that I asked him;

1. What is the size of the mFue (mFUT) punch?

 

2. Why misrepresent this as FUE level scarring when in fact the punch on the video is significantly large than ANY FUE punch. A fallacious and inaccurate way to promote this new procedure.

 

3. I find it disconcerting that your own patient rep Spex clearly disagrees with you in regards to FUE yield. He has stated during several consultations for prospective Dr F. patients that the FUE vs FUT yield is equivalent. You suggested you thought nothing of it? Any reason why you and you patient rep aren't on the same page? Seems odd?

 

As many have suggested including the well respected Dr Bhatti this is all in an effort to promote & market this new procedure. He clearly isn't willing to discuss the specifics of the procedure only vague replies and misdirection?

So you changed the quote by editing in the "non believer" part. Correct? You just cherry picked two words, then added words of your own and then posted it as a quote of mine in a quote background. Very sneaky.

Dr. Bhatti,

 

I was unaware of some of the points you made as I don't spend much time on here. I just try to give people the benefit of the doubt, especially those that have taken the sacred oath. I hope for everyone's sake this is just a misunderstanding. I know that there are plenty of doctors out there that have no concern for anyone and just care about money. Dr. Feller has been highly regarded for as long as I have been on this site. He is also endorsed by one of the most respectable people in this business. With that said, I do agree that accusations and assertions that are claimed to be factual, need to have accountability. I personally think you both produce excellent work. That is my honest opinion. This is now a globalized market. Patients have the opportunity to do as much research as possible and make a decision based off of all the criteria they find relevant and useful to make a decision. Dr. Bhatti, I wanted you to know that I am not on anyone's side. I am trying to be as objective as humanly possible. I hope this situation resolves soon and everyone can move on.

Disphair,

The thread is long so most people can't read it from start to finish.

In short, this site has become very FUE centered with wild claims being made about FUE that I know just aren't true. As I made my points I was attacked by very enthusiastic posters. This is nothing new. What is new is that Dr. Bhatti and his reps read two posts incorrectly and ascribed to me something I did not write. In retaliation for the perceived wrong they both attacked me. In a moment of self righteous outraged Dr. Bhatti claimed that because I was a Coalition member and he wasn't that the administrators of the site somehow gave me more "space" and acted otherwise unfairly in my favor. Dr. Bhatti then went a step further and said if he could debate me "fairly" he would school me as to why my points were wrong. Well, the moderators ultimately stepped in to confirm that I had indeed NOT written what Dr. Bhatti thought I had and that of course they had not played favorites. Did Dr. Bhatti apologize for his error in attacking me? No, he did not.

Despite the reason for him to enter the thread I accepted his challenge to debate. If you look back on what I wrote you will see I was very concise and articulate in my points and counter points. But he would not engage except for broad strokes and non sequitur comments. It's all there for anyone to read. He would answer my one question with several questions of his own determined to never stay on point. Then he ratcheted up the personal attacks. Him and his two paid representatives.

To flip the script he charged me with personal attacks and kept saying that my points were not scientifically proven or backed up. So, I put the Beehner study and a chapter from the Hair Transplant Textbook that scientifically backed up my claim. He just paid lip service to them and dismissed them. No matter how much effort I took to get him to stay on point, he wouldn't. He was being evasive. Since the moderators were not going to moderate the actual debate there was nobody to keep him on point or disqualify him. So I declared victory and left it at that.

But he decided that posting a video of his technique would do all the talking for him. But it backfired. EVERYONE who viewed it saw it as support for the points I had been making, which is that FUE is brutal on the graft and inflicts three particular kinds of injuries. I say everyone who viewed it saw it as support for my side because NOT A SINGLE PERSON COMPLIMENTED IT. Several gasped just as I did when viewing it. I'll post the link here tomorrow for you to view for yourself.

Since then everything he and his paid reps and overzealous supporters have written has been: an attempt at distraction from the video, and the usual attacks upon me.

Now, however, the attacks have been upgraded to charges of an evil conspiracy.

So that's where we stand in a "nutshell".

There you go.

Don't believe him Lileli, he took the quote out of context. Actually, I can't even find that actual quote. The closest I could find is 1053.