Time to do something

I may have a "before" photo somewhere. I was totally bald except for a thin strip of native hair across the top of my head right in front of the crown. I don't know if this is making a difference in the apperance of the photo but I keep the transplanted hair trimmed short since I'm wearing a hair piece and also there is some grey in it which may look more dense if it is colored. I do have hair where I didn't before. I believe in order for me to be able to remove the hair piece in September the only solution at this point since I've gone through so much to get where I am is to investigate the "hair tattoing". If I feel comfortable with that procedure it may offer the illusion of density by covering up some of the contrast between the hair and scalp that is being seen now through the low density of the hair transplant. Thoughts?

Here is a photo I just took. I believe one can understand why I'm anxious. I still have about five months for the last procedure to mature but I'm concerned even when it matures I'm not going to have enough density for this to look acceptable. I'm wearing a hair piece now which is why the sides are longer. Before anyone comments that the hair piece may be causing the lack of growth, it is has nothing to do with it. It is lace which is very breathable and is only on eight hours during the week not on weekends and is very lose and attached with four clips. I even had Dr. Bernstein in NY confirm this would not cause any issue with growth and many of my stylists clients with more constrictive less breathable hair pieces have had hair transplants with no problems.

What are your opinions?

can you post pics? smg is the king of ht's so im surprised to hear you aren't getting good growth.

Sure, I'll try to post some this weekend. Dr. Shapiro is not the doctor who caused the problem. The two procedures he did seem to be giving results he just had limited donor to work with since the first doctor used 5000 grafts.

Sorry man. A lot can happen in five months. I don't recall your case and did not see any pics in your profile so can't comment further. Keep your chin up. One thing is for sure. If will flirt better then what it is. Also, I would rather have thin hair that looked natural than wear a piece. I hope the the piece did not stifle growth.

Thanks man. Had two procedures by a doctor this site recommended who has now been removed as a member. I wear a lace piece which looks very real. People can't believe it when I tell them I'm wearing one and they aren't saying that to be polite. The fact it is so breathable did not affect the growth. In fact I consulted with Dr. Bernstein in NY about this before my procedure and he said that it would have no adverse effect on the growth. I only wear it for eight hours during the day at work during weekdays.

I still have five months before my last procedure has matured but after three previous ones since 2007 I'm getting axnious for results. I believe many of you know my story which started here five years ago. I just held a light up to my head and my hair disappeared. My stomach sank. I'll never be able to go into full sun with the density I have because all people would see would be mostly scalp. I don't think there is any way possible that I'll have that much more hair in the next five months to be cosmetically acceptable. I tried some topik on my scalp to see what that would do and it made me look even worse. My normally shiny hair became very dull and looked lifeless as if someone had smeared shoe polish on my head. I used it sparingly and distributed it evenly. If this is what the tattooing procedure will look like that is not going to work either. I still wear a hairpiece and fear I may never be able to get rid of it. I am not one of those lucky guys who would look good bald. UGH. I needed to vent here where hopefully others would understand.

Let the buyer beware. I had a terrible experience with a highly recommended coalition doctor that was on this site. Fortunately another coalition doctor (Ron Shapiro) followed my situation and offered two free sessions to try to repair and recover from the first two bad procedures. Dr. Shapiro’s work is doing much better especially considering the limited grafts he had to work with since many were lost in the first two surgeries. The doctor who performed my first surgeries soon had his membership on this site revoked. The final results from my last procedure with Dr. Shapiro should be in September. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that this is going to be enough to look acceptable. If not I’m considering the scalp tattooing. I’m hearing mixed reviews on it. I’ve seen guys who have done it and it looks good but I’m more concerned about what it will look like in ten years since there really isn’t any data on anyone who has had it more than a couple of years.

 

Timetodo,

 

No personal jab intended!! :)I did my best to explain!! Sorry if u took it that way.My bad:( Good luck with your hair journey!!

 

Thank you for clearing that up because that is not the way your previous post sounded. I accept your appologies.

 

BTW, threads have a life of their own, just roll with it.

- topics change as the thread rolls out

 

The reason you don't own the thread just because you posted first is,

- you stated that you started the thread, and re-posted the identical post later in the thread with no reference to the post material in between

 

 

on my part anyway, because I don't want to keep making new pigmentation threads in a hair transplant general questions and answers section.

-can't add anything here

 

Sorry if you feel ignored

-seems like you weren't getting answers you wanted, as you also posted the laser question on a thread I started about minox

 

What do you mean by this?

 

-hope that helps.

 

 

This is directed at “Scar5”. I apologize in advance to other members for the less than cheery post I’m about to write which is off my original topic. I hate doing so but on occasion it is necessary when provoked unnecessarily and inaccuracies have been posted. I am open to constructive criticism but this is not constructive and I see no point to it other than to offend or attempt to stir up an argument. “Scar5”, if you are here to argue and criticize people please find another venue for it because that is not the reason I’m here and I suspect the majority of other members aren’t either. I don’t need instructions from you on how this site works. I’ve been on it longer than you and made more posts and never been given instructions by another member about how to conduct myself on the forum. By posting the same thing again I was hitting the refresh button and I have the prerogative to do that. For you to assume and make the accusation I felt like I was being ignored was incorrect and out of line. My post is anything but being ignored with well over 2000 views and over 60 replies. You said I felt like I “owned” this post. Please show me where I said that. You said you felt like I wasn’t getting the answers I wanted. Again, an assumption on your part which was inaccurate. I am not looking for a particular answer. If that is what I was looking for I’d answer my own questions. I’m looking for facts and truth whatever they may be, from a credible source that has done their due diligence in research and experience. I’d recommend if my posts annoy you then don’t read them and unless you have something constructive to add about the topic being discussed please do not respond to any more of my posts. I believe 99.9% of the people on here are an asset and offer a lot to the forum, then there is that .1%. Maybe these individuals are negative by nature or have a terrible personal life. Whatever the reason there is no place for it on this forum and it is counterproductive to what we are trying to accomplish here. Now, I’d like to get back to the topic with members who are inclined to learn from one another and not trade personal jabs off topic but information on hair loss solutions. Thank you very much to everyone who replied to my original post. I’ve learned a tremendous amount from you and know I will continue to do so on this hair replacement journey.

 

BTW, threads have a life of their own, just roll with it. The reason you don't own the thread just because you posted first is, on my part anyway, because I don't want to keep making new pigmentation threads in a hair transplant general questions and answers section. Sorry if you feel ignored:(

 

What do you mean by this?

Thank you everyone for your great responses to my post. I am the original poster on this topic and just read through all of the responses which brings up a few questions and observations. I was initially quoted $1500, then $3000 now I see one member here was quoted $6000. This is getting as expensive as a hair transplant. I had the unfortunate experience of going to a highly recommended surgeon on this site who did a job that produced few results. He offered a second one free which I accepted and that produced few results as well. This doctor refused to offer a refund even though other doctors said I did not receive the benefit of the number of grafts placed. That not only destroyed about 5,000 irreplaceable grafts but also drained my bank account of $10,000. The doctor felt his work was adequate.

People on here were shocked at the photos I posted and shortly after that this doctor’s membership on the site was revoked. I’m told because of my results and results of other patients around the same time period. Dr. Shapiro followed my story and knew I had gotten the short end of the stick and performed two more procedures on me free. His work has been effective. I have another six months before I can say the last procedure is mature. I believe that I will be close to a cosmetically acceptable result but still need something to make the density appear thicker. Since my donor supply is exhausted SMP is my last hope with current technology. However, if the price is now $6000 I am priced out of the market. This five year journey has been very frustrating and now I feel so close but still so far due to the current cost of SMP.

One poster commented on the idea of a non-permanent ink solution. I like that idea. Would the color of the ink be different if I wanted to keep some length to my hair vs. keeping it shaved? I am so glad that Dr. Rassman contributed to this thread. If I have this done one day he is probably the one I would go to since it is medically supervised. He did seem to contradict himself and was wondering if he or someone could clarify a couple of statements? In one post Dr. Rassman says “tattoo removing with a laser works reasonably well”, then in another statement he says “, much of what his clinic does is not practically reversible”. Which is it? And if the tattooing can be removed with a laser is it the kind that will not damage the hair follicle? Remember one type of laser is used specifically for hair removal because it kills the follicle.

Dr. Rassman said two to three sessions will be needed. How far apart will those sessions be? There was another question concerning whether the SMP should be done before or after an hair transplant. I would say if one gets SMP done before a hair transplant they are going into the hair transplant with the notion that the finished result will not provide enough density to be cosmetically acceptable. I would get the hair transplant first, let it mature and see what the final results are. To me getting the SMP before the hair transplant is putting the cart before the horse. What if the hair transplant provided an acceptable density, then the SMP would have been an unnecessary procedure. I think a hair transplant and SMP can complement each other. I don’t think SMP alone without the texture of real hair is as convincing as SMP alone and a hair transplant without the illusion of adequate density is not as convincing as a hair transplant alone. In addition, even if one did want to get the SMP, I believe if it is done after a hair transplant the SMP artist will be in a better position to know what they are working with as far as final results of hair density and can better match the SMP with the available hair. This could all be argued the other way around too but this is just my opinion.

I noticed another contradiction here (it may have been between Dr. Rassman and another poster) that indicated for longer hair dots are not recommended but more of a blanket of ink. Then Dr. Rassman said he recommends dots not blanket color. I like that Dr. Rassman pointed out that a natural hairline has a transition and is not an abrupt thick wall of hair across the forehead. Natural hair is thinner at the hairline and gets thicker on top of the head. What to do oh what to do!

Thank you everyone for your great responses to my post. I am the original poster on this topic and just read through all of the responses which brings up a few questions and observations. I was initially quoted $1500, then $3000 now I see one member here was quoted $6000. This is getting as expensive as a hair transplant. I had the unfortunate experience of going to a highly recommended surgeon on this site who did a job that produced few results. He offered a second one free which I accepted and that produced few results as well. This doctor refused to offer a refund even though other doctors said I did not receive the benefit of the number of grafts placed. That not only destroyed about 5,000 irreplaceable grafts but also drained my bank account of $10,000. The doctor felt his work was adequate.

People on here were shocked at the photos I posted and shortly after that this doctor’s membership on the site was revoked. I’m told because of my results and results of other patients around the same time period. Dr. Shapiro followed my story and knew I had gotten the short end of the stick and performed two more procedures on me free. His work has been effective. I have another six months before I can say the last procedure is mature. I believe that I will be close to a cosmetically acceptable result but still need something to make the density appear thicker. Since my donor supply is exhausted SMP is my last hope with current technology. However, if the price is now $6000 I am priced out of the market. This five year journey has been very frustrating and now I feel so close but still so far due to the current cost of SMP.

One poster commented on the idea of a non-permanent ink solution. I like that idea. Would the color of the ink be different if I wanted to keep some length to my hair vs. keeping it shaved? I am so glad that Dr. Rassman contributed to this thread. If I have this done one day he is probably the one I would go to since it is medically supervised. He did seem to contradict himself and was wondering if he or someone could clarify a couple of statements? In one post Dr. Rassman says “tattoo removing with a laser works reasonably well”, then in another statement he says “, much of what his clinic does is not practically reversible”. Which is it? And if the tattooing can be removed with a laser is it the kind that will not damage the hair follicle? Remember one type of laser is used specifically for hair removal because it kills the follicle.

Dr. Rassman said two to three sessions will be needed. How far apart will those sessions be? There was another question concerning whether the SMP should be done before or after an hair transplant. I would say if one gets SMP done before a hair transplant they are going into the hair transplant with the notion that the finished result will not provide enough density to be cosmetically acceptable. I would get the hair transplant first, let it mature and see what the final results are. To me getting the SMP before the hair transplant is putting the cart before the horse. What if the hair transplant provided an acceptable density, then the SMP would have been an unnecessary procedure. I think a hair transplant and SMP can complement each other. I don’t think SMP alone without the texture of real hair is as convincing as SMP alone and a hair transplant without the illusion of adequate density is not as convincing as a hair transplant alone. In addition, even if one did want to get the SMP, I believe if it is done after a hair transplant the SMP artist will be in a better position to know what they are working with as far as final results of hair density and can better match the SMP with the available hair. This could all be argued the other way around too but this is just my opinion.

I noticed another contradiction here (it may have been between Dr. Rassman and another poster) that indicated for longer hair dots are not recommended but more of a blanket of ink. Then Dr. Rassman said he recommends dots not blanket color. I like that Dr. Rassman pointed out that a natural hairline has a transition and is not an abrupt thick wall of hair across the forehead. Natural hair is thinner at the hairline and gets thicker on top of the head. What to do oh what to do!

Well, I believe you, but it is hard to sort out the wood from the trees.

 

They say, ALL tattoos will look a blue eventually, based on

 

a) Black is made up of Blue, Red and Yellow and the latter two fade first, leaving....?

b) The skin filters out red tone naturally

 

and then, as if the above is a worthless piece of garbage, they then go and say..

 

a) It "depends" on the ink

 

What the ??? does that leave us with?

 

As for the minox, I am gonna assume it might not be great, but I'll use it anyway

 

And 'TTDS'

 

Asking docs to to guarantee that laser removal of tatts won't harm hair is beating a dead horse. What have they got to gain giving you that guarantee, when they cannot be responsible for the laser treatment, even, assuming, they expect no complications from their end. For what it's worth, I had laser treatment to remove tatts and I don't think it did any harm to the hair, but my hair is so bad, it might be hard to tell.

I’ll beat that dead horse until it is pulverized. I for one will not undergo a procedure where the results are permanent and the long term effects are unknown. This procedure has not been around long enough to know what my happen in 20 years. If there was a reason it needed to be removed I’d want that guarantee and that it could be done without damaging the hair follicles. If not I won’t even think about this procedure. There could be a lot of unhappy traumatized people out there down the road who jumped into this. If you or anyone else feels comfortable having this procedure with the limited data available on it go for it. This is a matter of personal opinion. I’m just saying it may not be for me with all of the vagueness associated with it.

Hey everyone, thanks for all of your posts. I have been reading and learning. Im a 30 year old man, almost 31, and I have fought MPB for 7 years. Also have been on finasteride and rogaine for 7 years. I have done alot of researching on three companies- HIS, Good look Ink, and Artistry Concepts. HIS just seems too fake looking to me, Good Look Ink looks pretty good and have alot more professionalism, and Artistry Concepts seems to be good but when I called I got one of their techs or artists, and he was not helpful or professional at all. Also their pics look doctored and I've read some other posts and they had similar experiences. I really want to have this done and alleviate my number one concern. Im looking at booking good look ink appointment in Minnesota but I still am not 100 percent. Also all I seem to be finding on these forums are undercover people from each of these places talking crap about each other and as for the horror story experiences that I keep finding about each of these businesses, for all I know they are BS as well. Anyway, thanks in advance to anyone who has feedback for me.:confused:

Ask them if for some reason you need to have the ink removed if that can be done with a laser without damaging the hair folicle. They refused to answer that question for me. If they say yes get it in writting. Let us know what they say. Good luck.

Can the ink be removed with a laser without damaging the hair follicle? If so then another procedure could be done.

I understand as I was one of the men to have side effects from finasteride on the two occasions I trialled it. They were moderate but persistent sexual side effects that disappeared on both occasions within about a week of stopping the drug.

 

I don't think your belief that once the damage is done in "most cases it is lifetime". Millions of men take finasteride and a few thousand report side effects, of which the overwhelming majority see a cessation of those effects after stopping the medication. Yes, there are some men who claim permanent side effects, but the evidence this is true is not forthcoming. If it was some kind of epidemic you'd be seeing literally tens or hundreds of thousands of men taking the pill and having major problems. This does not happen. And the men who claim it has ruined their life, whilst nobody can as yet prove one way or another, often don't make compelling cases for their claims.

 

The reason there are TV ads and lawsuits is because there is money to be made in them. This is not uncommon right across the medical world, unfortunately. It does nothing to prove finasteride is dangerous or its side effects are more common. I'm not suggesting these claims are lies because the jury is literally still out, but here's the thing. If finasteride was as dangerous as some claim, it would not be some covered up secret. There would be a great number of very vocal users whose lives were destroyed. Whilst there is a number of people claiming that, in the scheme of things it is not a great number.

You are speaking about the side effects of Propecia. Those have been documented. The point of my post was that Propecia was not the magic bullet to cure baldness as it was claimed to be by media hype. We now all know better. In addition DHT is in our bodies for a reason and to deplete it is not a good idea. A better approach would be to figure out how to develop hair folicles through genetic engineering that are not sensitive to DHT. Men who don't go bald don't have the genetic trait where their hair folicles are sensitive to DHT. They may still have a high level of DHT which the body needs and a full head of hair. Nobody knows what the side effects down the road for this new "baldness cure" could be. It could be much worse that what we saw with Propecia and I don't want to be a drug company's experiment. There have been no long term studies on this drug.

I wouldn't say that "many" people had ill effects from Propecia. Millions take it, only thousands get ill effects, most of them on the milder end of the scale.

 

Even though this is far from ready and not even proven I would also counter that the science from this doesn't seem as "invasive" as the mechanism by which finasteride works. This is apparently being looked at as a topical solution like minoxidil, targeting a very specific protein. Finasteride targets a very common receptor that converts testosterone into DHT, and anything to do with the hormone system is always likely to produce potentially far reaching effects on the body.

 

I don't think it's quite worth getting excited about, but as someone pointed out the science is improving and so are the results. If this is a more simplistic but more effective upgrade to finasteride with less room for side effects, I'd see that as a massive step up, even if it wasn't "the" cure.

The problem is there is no way to know if you will be one of the ones to have an adverse reaction to it. I sure would not want to take that chance becuase once the damage is done in most cases it is lifetime. There have been enough bad side effects from this drug to warrent ads on TV asking people to contact their law firm it they were a vicitm of Propecia. If they didn't think they had a case against the product and enough people to file lawsuits they would not be spending large sums of money trying to locate the victims. In case you don't know this, anything topical penetrates the skin and goes in the body, so this could have the same side effects of a pill. In fact many times topical solutions are better than a pill because it doesn't have to pass through the stomach and risk being destroyed or reduced by the stomach acid. How may times have we seen drugs recalled because after they are "tested"and FDA approved they have terrible side effects that caused death? There has not been enough research to prove this is safe which is why I said I'll believe it when I see it. I hope it turns out to be the magic bullet.

When Minoxidil and Propecia came out people thought this was the end of baldness. Not only was it not but now many people have ill effects from the side effects of Propecia. Beware.

If the theory is hair doesn't grow where this specific protein is found on the scalp then why does hair transplanted from the safe zones grow where this protein is found? Apparently hair from the safe zone is resistant to this protein like it is resistant to DHT.

Cost is not a factor either way. I went to a doctor highly recommend on this site as one of the best who charged a lot of money and my end result was very poor and lost grafts that can never be replaced. I had numerous well respected doctors in the coalition evaluate the work and was told it was not what it should have been for the amount of grafts placed. However Ron Shapiro in Minneapolis followed my saga and offered two free surgeries to help get me where I should have been with the first doctor. Dr. Shapiro's work is progressing nicely. My first doctor's membership was revoked on this site becuase of my ordeal and that of several others around the same time from what I've been told.

Sorry to hear that your first two ops weren't successful, 5k and it was a poor result?

Dr Rassman has an ocean of experience.

Yes my first doctor did a terrible job. I went to numerous well respected doctors for opinions and they agreed the results were not what they should have been for the number of grafts placed. The doctor didn't even refund my money. He beleived he did a good job. Shortly after that his membership here was revoked because others had complaints as well. My last two surgeries with Ron Shapiro in Minneapolis have turned out better. The problem is so many of my grafts were lost in the first two failed surgeries, that Dr. Shapiro had a finite number of grafts to work with before my donor hair supply was exhausted. He did what he could with what he had to work with. The results are far better than with the first doctor but may not quite get the level of density that I believe would be cosmetically acceptable. For that reason I'm considering the option of a light scalp tattooing to beef up the appearance of density a little. I might add that Dr. Shapiro did my TWO hair transplants FREE because he followed my case with the previous doctor and knew I hadn't obtained the results I should have.

I found the answer to the question I just posted here in my previous post. The doctor is Dr. Rassman. If anyone knows of other doctors offering hair tattooing please let me know. Thanks

Hey Guys,

I thought I'd post an update on my long seemingly never ending saga. After two hair transplants with a surgeon that provided very poor results I went to Ron Shapiro in Minneapolis and had two more. I'm happy to say Dr. Shapiro's work has been a success. I am eight months into my second surgery. My understanding is second, third or fourth surgeries take longer for results to show than the first. I'm giving myself 14 months until I will say I'm seeing the final result and there will probably be some maturing of the hair even after that.

Because so many grafts were lost in my first two surgeries I'm tapped out for donor hair. I believe I'm right at the cusp of having a cosmetically acceptable appearance. However, I'm considering a light tatooing in the event the final result isn't quite dense enough to provide the appearance of more density. I visited a company while I was in Minneapolis having my last hair transplant. I was not impressed. They were far more worried about me signing on the dotted line than answering my questions. When I finally told them I would go no further until my questions were answered the conversation shut down. They answered all of my questions to my satisfaction except one.

I asked if the tatooing could be removed with a laser one day if I needed to do so for some unforseen reason without damaging the hair follicle. They would not answer that. After completing a little more research after my surgery on the hair tatooing subject I discovered there was a coalition approved surgeon in California offering hair tatooing. Does anyone have his name or another coalition doctor who is offering that service? I would feel far more comfortable going to a doctor for that service than a tattoo artist for many reasons. Thanks.

Relevant article inserted by moderator: Hair Loss Treatment: Is Scalp Micropigmentation a Legitimate Hair Restoration Solution?

I have a mild case of MVP and a hair transplant has been no problem for me.

Can anyone answer how long this procedure has been around? I'd be intrested to see/hear how people who had this done several years ago (if it was available then) look and feel about it now. My stylist said last night that one of her clients talked with her about it at least five years ago.