Time to do something

I found it. It was on another website off of their main site. There were only three examples of people with thinning hair. Not nearly as many examples as GLI has.

This is from NHI's website. It seems to go against what I was told by them. Apparently long hair is acceptable but they must use a different process for that vs. buzzed hair. The more I learn the less I feel I know! Scalp MicroPigmentation (SMP) works best for those who want to shave their hair (keeping it clipped very short). Even hair as long as 1/2 cm may not look right with SMP. You must remember that this is a permanent pigment (tattoo) without a three-dimensional texture. Let’s say you had a scar on your scalp from surgery. If you shave the hair around the scar, SMP can mimic the same look (thus disguising the scar). When the hair grows, there will be an uneven step-off look until your hair grows long enough to cover it. Another issue with SMP is the color matching. If you have brown hair, SMP may not match if the hair is kept long. SMP works for shaved brown hair, because the hair color almost looks grey when it’s that short. So if you match the color of a shaved hair, it will not match with the long hair (unless your hair color is black). In a minority of cases we do use SMP in between the hair to make it look fuller. In effect, this is coloring your scalp to diminish the contrast between hair color and scalp color. If you do this, you will need to keep your hair longer (5cm+ or so) so that it would not look like you tattooed your scalp. This method is only recommended if you are never going to cut your hair short (for life), because if you shave or cut your hair short it will not look right. In summary — SMP is not so simple. It’s a permanent procedure that works best for shaved hair where we use a shade of grey (not brown). If you keep your hair long and we use your dark brown pigment to give you fullness, cutting your hair short later will cause the different color to stand out. If you want some permanent color to your scalp while keeping your hair long, it’s doable, but not advised for everyone. I think temporary camouflaging products such as DermMatch and Toppik are the best for those situations.

I’ve about given up trying to find examples of NHI’s SMP. I went to their website and could find no gallery. I emailed them and they sent me a link which took me to the same website I had already been to with no gallery of SMP’s. I emailed them back and said I must be missing something because I see no examples of your work. They emailed me back and said to click on “clients” on the home page. There is no “client” tab on the home page! UGH! Does anyone have a link they can send me that will take me to examples of NHI’s SMP work? This is getting tedious.

I heard from NHI with my additional follow up questions today. They now seem to be quick to respond and completely okay with email. GLI on the other hand seems to be less inclined to reply to emails, they would rather talk on the phone. Anyway, NHI said I would likely get a similar number of dots as a completely bald guy. This is a little concerning because if I have hair and they are going to squeeze in as many dots on me as a totally bald guy isn’t that going to overpopulate my scalp with dots creating the appearance of too much density? GLI said it would be customized for me and if I already have hair fewer dots would be used. That approach sounds more realistic to me. Thoughts?

I received an answer to my follow up question to GLI this morning. I like what they said. I asked if I would require fewer dots than a totally bald guy since I have hair. Their answer was yes. It is good to know they customize this and it isn't a one size fits all approach. I want the density of a guy my age not a 20 year old. I need the appearance of more density than I have now with my transplants but don't want it too dense. It sounds like they make allowances for that and this will be age appropriate.

Can anyone recommend an unbiased third party I could go to for an evaluation to see if SMP would be the right thing for me? If I go to a provider of the service most likely they will lean towards recommending it. If I could find someone qualified to evaluate me within a close drive that would be great.

I'm not sure what I'd learn about it in person that I can't learn via phone or email. It is not in my budget to fly out to LA just to talk to them. They did say they have a couple of clients in Florida that I could see in person. If they aren't too far I'll get together with them.

CORRECTION: I meant to say NHI goes shallow and only uses black ink where GLI goes deep and matches the color of the individual's hair.

I received a reply to my follow up questions from NHI today. I still haven't heard from GLI on my follow up questions. It appears these two companies use very different processes. NHI does not recommend SMP for anyone who keeps their hair longer than shaved or buzzed. They will do it on a case by case basis. I'm trying to find out why they have this policy. They said they only use black ink for all clients and they rarely use a shade of brown but it is on a case by case basis. GLI uses the color that matches one's hair. NHI says that skin obscures the true color of the ink. The example they give is blood vessels which are really red looks green under the skin. NHI requires three to five procedures spaced at least four days apart. That could be a challenge because I'd have to make multiple trips to LA from Florida. NHI says tattoos go in deep so the ink stays and as time goes by it bleeds. SMP goes shallow compared to a tattoo so the ink may come out in the first week. The ink that stays in may bleed over the years but instead o bleeding like a traditional tattoo it will bleed out of the skin because it is deposited shallow which is why a touch up may be needed. NHI says all ink will fade and lose definition but the loss of definition is minimal. So it appears that GLI goes deep and only uses black ink and NHI goes shallowand matches the color to the individual's hair. Now to figure out which method is best! Thoughts?

Thanks Bill, I'm holding you to that!

Why do I feel like hairs are being split here (no pun intended). I don't' feel I'm taking your words out of context but if you feel I am I apologize. If someone says to me that I'm going to "truly regret" something that doesn't sound like they are trying to talk me into it. I've been researching SMP for over two years so I've done about as much as I can. I wasn't implying you had no knowledge of the procedure. I was simply saying you have limited knowledge and as you said you are no expert. I've seen several people in person who have had it done but you haven't so I'd say it is safe to assume I have that advantage. I was just trying to get a handle on your opinion of the procedure with the experience you have that's all. I'm on your side. ; )

Bill, Thanks for your feedback. How did you arrive at the decision I'm trying to hold this forum responsible for my decision on SMP? I didn't hold the forum responsible for the terrible results I received from a highly recommended doctor that was on here. I'm not trying to hold anyone to anything I'm simply attempting to gather enough information to make an educated decision. I beg to differ with you. You sent me a message earlier that said you don't think I should do SMP because I'd regret it. Then in a later message you said you are not trying to talk me out of it. I guess your view on it is evolving. I'm learning a lot about SMP from other's here who are sharing information and their experiences. I am aware I'm responsible for my own decisions. Let the buyer beware. There are a lot of scammers out there. Since you say you know little about SMP I was just curious why you would have said in an earlier message I'd regret it? Maybe I will I'm not saying I won't. All I'm saying is from the data I've gathered it appears to be my only option and I don't see any terrible results from it. You ask some excellent questions. In my research I've discovered that the three top providers of this service all do the full head not just a specific area. They say it offers a more natural look. I plan to cut my hair a little shorter but not a buzz look most likely. I'll probably cut it close on the sides and back and leave a little length on the top.

Walking out the door of my house comes with a risk but I do it because the alternative would be terrible. With your knowledge of my situation being that I've had nearly 9000 grafts with four hair transplants, an exhausted donor supply, and not enough density do you believe I'm a candidate for this procedure if I select the right practitioner? I would think if this site is endorsing Dr. Rassman and he believes that SMP is a viable procedure then indirectly it has this forums blessing. Meaning if he passed your ethics requirements then he would not be performing anything that wasn't legitimate. Dr. Shapiro from what I can remember in our conversations has a wait and see attitude. He believes there are candidates for this procedure and I am one of them. He believes what he has seen looks good at least at a distance. He feels up close it lacks depth. I believe that issue is overcome with guys who have hair like me. The hair provides depth. My research will continue. I want to get this done around the end of June.

Davis91-Dr. Shapiro indicated at some point he would supervise the process. I don't know how GLI would feel about that since they believe they are the experts.

Who do you recommend and what are you basing your recommendation on? Thanks

Okay great. Just wanted to clarify. Your coalition physician Dr. Shapiro has said I’d be a candidate for SMP. He has sent patients to GLI as have 18 other hair transplant doctors. I’d think even if you are only recommending Dr. Rassman for his hair transplant work if he was partaking in a service you felt was risky or questionable that would be enough to eliminate him from membership in the coalition. I’m not trying to be a jerk I sincerely appreciate your concern and I’m listening very carefully. I want ALL viewpoints. What I’ve seen looks very good. One of the members on here just had it done and he has been keeping me updated on it. He is thrilled with it and says not one person has noticed he has had it done including a good friend of his who typically likes to bust people’s balls and call them out on things. I think it is well understood that the pigments will not hold up for years under UV rays. However, if care is taken to wear a hat or sunscreen when one is out in the sun for more than 30 minutes the pigment should last for many years and if it fades touch ups are easy and inexpensive. I do have a lot of body hair but I’d really rather not go through that. The expense alone is out of my reach in addition the successful yield of BHT compared to a traditional hair transplant is lower. Since I’ve already had poor growth from a traditional hair transplant BHT doesn’t look like a good option for me. Dr. Shapiro said I still have donor hair available through FUE but again that is not in my budget and after four surgeries I’m burned out on that.

Also, if you don’t recommend SMP why is one of the coalition doctors you recommend offering it? If it is something you believe is risky I wouldn’t think this site would endorse a doctor who is performing such a procedure.

I agree it will produce an illusion of density which is what I need since the hair transplants did not offer an adequate amount to be cosmetically acceptable. I believe SMP and hair transplants can complement one another. SMP alone won’t give the texture of hair or the height of hair while in many cases a hair transplant alone will not offer enough density. Up close I suppose SMP will look like a tattoo but I have very few people close enough to inspect my head that closely. From a distance which 99% of people view us from it looks natural from the ones I’ve seen. Being I’m tapped out for donor supply and don’t have adequate density and don’t want the maintenance of a concealer what would you recommend? I’ve also asked you twice if you have seen individuals in person who have had SMP and what you are basing your skepticism on but you never responded. I’m open to anything and everything before I make my decision. I’m on a fact finding mission.

I never go through with anything until I’ve done exhaustive research and even then sometimes one gets stung like I did with my first two hair transplants. NHI’s email was riddled with contradictions so I sent them another email asking for clarification. I believe if they use fewer dots as they approach the hairline the helmet look will be avoided. I don’t understand if they use the color to match the client’s hair why mine would have the possibility of turning the greenish blue hue. My hair is reddish/brownish/blondish not black which is the ink color they say turns greenish blue. Scar5 which company did you decide to go with for your procedure? I’ve seen a couple of clients in person who had work done by GLI. I didn’t think it looked unusual. I’d have never known they had anything done if I hadn’t been told. I do think if it turns bluish green it would look odd. They explain it by saying that is the color stubble appears coming from the skin. Are they basing that on dark haired individual only? I’m fair and don’t have dark hair and my stubble does not appear that color. I’m not concerned about the grey issue. They can sprinkle in grey now and even if they don’t and my own hair changes to grey it will be a mix of my regular color and grey which many men have. The hair on the top of my head is growing out nicely but I still don’t have the density to look cosmetically acceptable so I’m still wearing the hairpiece. I won’t remove it until either the last transplant has matured or I get SMP to lessen the contrast between scalp and hair.

Yes odd. I need to check on that.

I heard from NHI today. Very interesting how different their answers were from GLI. They must use a different process. First, they recommend SMP only for guys who want to buzz their hair short or shave it. GLI said longer hair is not a problem and many women have it done. I need to ask them why they recommend shaved or buzzed hair. They also said that it will fade to a lighter shade and change color to a slight green or bluish tint and that there is no pigment or color in existence that maintains its perfect black color. Interesting since GLI would not be using black on me since I'm reddish/brownish/blondish. They need two to three separate sessions lasting three to four hours each spaced three to four days apart. They say it is because they need to match the color and distribution of the SMP. If a touch up session is needed years later it is $500. When asked how long the ink will last they responded with "One year". That is a very short amount of time and contradicts what they said earlier in their reply that it would last a lifetime. I need to get clarification on that. They said the green/blue color is normal and will not look odd. They said that is the color of hair when it is shaved close to the skin. I need to make sure they aren't talking about dark haired individuals. I don't think my beard stubble appears greenish blue. They said it will blur a little that it never stays sharp and that it bleeds a bit but not to the degree of a normal tattoo. They do taper the hairline and fade it out so a helmet hairline is not a problem. Having one's own hair helps with the 3D effect. Their process will not damage hair follicles. They don't go in deep enough for that to be a problem. It most likely will not cause shock loss either. They also do the entire head not just a partial area. If they did it would not look even. Later in their reply they said they would match the color to my hair so I need to confirm that with them because that seems to contradict an earlier statement they made.

I just called Dr. Rassman's office to inquire about the lack of response to my two emails. I was told Dr. Pak was out of town last week so that is why I didn't receive a reply. I know in my job if I'm going to be out of the office I have an out of office auto reply on my email. Very odd that he did not or at least have someone there who checks the emails get back with me to let me know he was out of town and would be returning messages upon his return. It is little things like this that help in the decision making process if all other things are equal.

I spoke to GLI today. They told me that their process will last a lifetime if proper precautions are taken by using sunscreen if in the sun for more than 30 minutes. They said the worst case scenario would be it fades after ten years and one would come back for a reinforcement which would take about two hours and cost $195. They apparently go deeper in the skin than other companies which may allow it to hold up better. I wasn’t really clear what his answer was when I asked if the color simply faded or turned a different color. It was not a “yes” or “no” answer. He did say it would not blur or bleed. They also pride themselves in natural hairlines which fade in density the closer to the front so it doesn’t look like a helmet. He did say his work is 2D not 3D. However, he did say that guys with hair have an advantage because hair gives a 3D appearance to his work. When asked if this could damage the hair follicle he said “yes it could”. That was a little worrying so I’ll talk to Dr. Shapiro about that. He did say to date no customer has ever had that happen to his knowledge nor has he witness it causing shock loss. He indicated the most natural look is generally achieved with multiple colors like a calico look. I did learn I’d have to have my entire head done. I thought they’d only do the area where I had the transplants. He said that is how they used to do it but learned it is more realistic if the entire head is done. I would have to shave my head down to a 0 or 1 guard which I wasn’t anticipating. He also said if for some reason I want it removed one day that can be done.

The email didn't bounce back so I believe they received it. I'll try to find time to call them.

I'm leaning in that direction (NHI). However, I've contacted them twice for information in the past ten days and heard nothing. I have another phone consultation with GLI this afternoon.