ijustbethinkin

good on you OP for sharing your experience despite pretty strange aggression from the clinic and moderators. Not a good look. You are entitled to share how you feel about how things went and the community can decide whether they agree with what you're saying minus personal experience stuff. I also agree that that patch looks overharvested. Overharvesting doesnt have to be across an entire donor area but can even be a small patch that should not have gone below a reasonable hair per cm2. Maybe the area will need more time but I doubt it now. Good news is your hairline is looking softer. 

On a side note IF the doctor told you to "shut your mouth" that is really disgusting treatment of a patient.

31 minutes ago, Gwazi said:

The mechanism of this drug literally just regenerates skin and tissue and follicles instead of letting it scar. Saying "the mechanism of this drug would make injection after microneedling not work" is just blatantly false. According to the mechanism of this drug, it should work. Not to mention people on RealSelf have reported using this drug to "cure" their scars, and it works perfectly. Even on older scars. There isn't even a trace of scar left. So if we destroyed the dormant hair follicles, and used Verteporfin, it would regenerate a hair follicle. You said it would probably just regenerate a miniaturized hair follicle. But why? That doesn't make sense. If it is completely regenerating a hair follicle, why would the new hair follicle come back already killed by DHT? No, it would more likely come back as a new hair follicle that is DHT sensitive and can in the future miniaturize again assuming you aren't on meds. But it would probably come back as a new hair follicle. 

 

What don't you get? I am way more hopeful for this than verteporfin after a hair transplant because I would prefer to get my original hairline and density back instead of a hair transplant which will look worse! This would be so much easier and cheaper than a hair transplant, and assuming it works, much better too

If you feel this confidently then please try it out yourself  You can source Vertoporfin as many individuals have and Microneedle your scalp so deeply you scar your head and see what happens. No need to waste a Hair transplant doctors time/reputation with this. 

9 hours ago, LandWhale said:

It's good that the doctors test Verteporfin combined with hair transplants first. I don't think anyone have an issue with that, but there is obviously a huge market for regrowing lost hair as well. I personally consider wounding + verteporfin superior if it actually works, and the guy who regrew most of his hair after a burn accident proves that there might be a mechanism that can make it work.

Some advantages (if it does work):
1) Potentially getting your natural density back
2) Getting your natural growth patterns back
3) Takes way less time to regrow your hair
3) Can address retrograde alopecia and DUPA

Disadvantages:
1) You will likely have to be on aggressive treatments to retain the results

There are a lot more disadvantages than just being on aggressive medication. One huge one as i mentioned is that you essentially need a 100% efficacy in blocking scarring for everyone who uses it if your using it on the top of the scalp otherwise you have caused permenant irrepirable damage to the area that even a hair transplant now cant come in and fix.

We can accept a significant amount of FUE scarring if Vert doesnt work 100%, no one cares that much about some dot scars on the back of their heads as shown by the huge influx of people who get FUE but significant scarring on the top of the head is obviously a big no no. I would even go so far as to argue that it would be unethical for a doctor to test this on people as you're risking causing icepick scars all over the top of their head. but hey if you eventually want to volunteer your head to try this out, more power to you.

23 hours ago, Gwazi said:

@DrTBarghouthi Hey doctor! Are you still going to look into injecting verteporfin after microneedling or damaging dormant hair follicles in some other way? I’m extremely interested in the potential for Verteporfin to be able to regenerate hair without a hair transplant. Sorry if this was previously asked in this thread. Also, do you think it will work or not? Thanks!

With the mechanism of this drug, it doesnt send hair through cycles of regrowth like Min/fin, it wont work with microneedling. It theoretically regrowths whatever is there prior to physical damage to the area i.e a miniturised follicle. Also if you are willing to microneedle so deep that it will potentially cause scar tissue to destroy a follicle... at that point just get a hair transplant. Also even if no scar tissue at all is formed you will have to be on heavy medication forever to maintain your newly grown hair when you could just get a transplant of DHT resistant hairs... we are like two step approach away from a cure like model for hair loss and the people advocating for this want to add an extra 5 steps to consider i dont get it at all

As there were no transections and the area is marked with SMP if the 6/7 grafts regrow we have definitive proof that Vertoporfin regrows hair. Very exciting, im sure many members here will holding their breath until months 4-6 to see prelimanary results. Using 6  extractions as a rough guide we could begin to estimate how much regrowth we could expect across a full FUE for example 4/6 regrow it could roughly translate to a 60% regrowth rate.

@Killian a couple of questions mate, what temp did you store the vert?

and did you get Visudyne or vert powder from an online chem? if it was the powder what did you mix it with?

Also to "activate" vert , was a light flased onto the area it was injected or was light avoided completely?

Helping get the answers to these could help faciliate more trials.🙏

any word on when Dr Bargouthis trials would be starting? or Dr Bloxhams next month updates?

So with this trial we are looking at 3 doctors(?) testing use case and 6-7 cases of hair transplants, very encouraging. No doubt this will multiply by the end of the year

Hey guys 

I want to prepare to use Vert in a FUE procedure. I am convinced of its efficacy, but even more its safety profile, it is about as safe to use as any medication could be, its intended use is to be injected into EYEBALLS for macular degeneration so I think all should be okay haha. and even if I get only as low as a 10-20% regrowth rate I will still be happy although my expectation is much more than that. I have a three-step plan to do this: 

1) buy generic verteporfin online from an online pharmacy. or visudyne if i could get my hands on some.

2) have it independently tested for purity

3) begin approaching doctors and request this to be injected into the donor at the end of an FUE.

An additional step i may take is marking out a small area i.e 1cm squared, counting the follicles in it and counting further down the line how many are there after the procedure to test regrowth rate . 

I hope I do not hit too much of a roadblock at no.3 but if I show the safety profile of this drug as well as the further chemical testing for peace of mind as well as offer more money(the most important part), I think it should be very possible to find a doctor who is willing to inject it at the end of the FUE. I understand that the worst case is that I have spent an extra couple of Ks with nothing to show for it, as long as confidently present this fact to a doctor I think I could get 1 onboard. I do have some questions, however:

a.) how should Vertoporfin be stored? does it need to be kept at a certain temp or is room temp okay?

b.) As I understand it the current dose that looks to be the most effective is 0.4mg per Centimetre squared right? And it was injected directly into the FUE wounds? or equally across each centimetre?

c) I have read that vert can't be subjected to light as it is photosensitive? Are there any other facts about the handling of this drug that should be known so i can relay this to the doctor.

I am willing to document how this is all panning out if i could get some help answering these questions.

Thnks 

I feel like it is simple supply and demand, the amount of docs producing outstanding results will skyrocket ( pretty easy if a majority of the grafts extracted regrows) meaning the need for the best docs is reduced.

I agree with the angle placement point though but that would be the only thing to look for but supply of amazing results would naturally go up. 

Im not saying everyone will flock to hair mills, there are plenty of good clinics providing great results at a reasonable price, now imagine giving them VERT too. every result will be a home run reducing the need to go to the best surgeons. 

I can also completely understand why some higher-profile doctors wanna steer clear of Vert or hope to see it fail. 

You go to a premium clinic to get the best donor management and to get the best possible results for the least amount of grafts because you only get 2-3 shots at it. With the biggest risk for a HT gone and the ability to keep getting transplants until you're happy with density, who could justify getting a small HT for $20-30K with Hasson and Wong, for example, when you could get a big session with Vert in a GOOD clinic in Tukey, India, Colombia etc for $4-5K. There premium would go completely out the window...

Premium docs will be forced to drastically lower prices, or lose most if not all of their market share to good but drastically cheaper clinics and docs. Only makes it more honorable of any big docs willing to test this as they are not putting profits first but thinking about improving results and patients' lives.

On 1/31/2024 at 10:22 PM, Dragonsphere said:

This. 

People need to factor in a few things with Dr Bloxham's trial. 

1. FUT is far more invasive than FUE. Far more tissue is removed so the body will have to remember more of what needs to be regenerated. I think Bloxham tacitly said this at the the 1st month video when saying his trial was more focused on scar improvement. 

2. Dr Bloxham used several different doses on each of his patients. People seem to be comparing the 0.4 dose at 18 months with all of Dr Bloxham's results. 

3. We are at the six months mark and seeing hair growing in a REVISED FUT scar. This is absolutely incredible and it cannot be understated how ground breaking this is. 

What do I expect we will see at 18 months? My money would be a greatly reduced FUT scar  with a notable amount of hairs growing through. I think the results will be less impressive due to the reasons I have articulated above but at the end of the day, I think most of our interested in the regeneration aspect of the drug. The reduced scarring is an added bonus. 

Also take into consideration we don't know if the 18 month mark is the peak result. Maybe Dr Bargouthi's patient will continue to improve, assuming there is not already 100% regeneration. 

I think we should still have cautious optimism, but every new update makes me think more and more this is going to be the surgical 'cure' for MPB. 

Does anyone disagree with any of this? 

Exactly. I don't know why people are downplaying the results, hair is growing out of the wound ! that is unprecendeted and the full result is not realised yet. Every step forwarded should be celebrated, not criticized. 

Doctors need to start offering vert at this point, what have they got to lose, even if its a 20% regrowth which we can confidently say is at that rate or higher, what do they lose?, it has an amazing safety profile, and is already approved for off label use. I think im going to start looking for a doctor who is willing to use this, no point playing the waiting game any longer we know it works for regrowth, I personally dont care if its 30% or 80%, ill happily take either considering the alternative is a transplant with no regrowth lol.

This will revolutionize the hair loss industry. There is surely no doubt that it regrows hair at this point. Doctors will be able  to do upwards of 10,000 grafts for literally anybody while drastically minimizing scarring and donor depletion. HT + Vert is essentially a modern-day cure should you have the money to spend for multiple HTs.

Why does your pre op frontal half look so sparse despite 6000 grafts in that region? was one of the transplants a failure? did you ever discuss this with the clinic?

Looks much denser post op. Good luck with it all.

For an FDA approved drug that is so promising, this is moving sooooo painfully slow 

On 12/23/2023 at 2:24 AM, takuma said:

i had an idea, the HT Doctor could make the incisions in the recipient area and instead of placing follicles from the donor in them, they place verteporfin in those incisions to allow the skin to heal back normally hopefully with robust thick hair follicles. 

You have mentioned that idea 100 times already....

Serious question: Why don't you buy Verteporfin and a 2mm Dermoroller and test it out yourself?

No need to waste a Hair Transplant Doctors time testing that. Focus should be on confirming this works on recovering donor hair, branching out and trying too many methods in these early stages will unnecessarily delay the process.

There is already regeneration IMO, follicles were growing out of the middle of the FUT scar.  Correct me if im wrong but that is unheard of without Vertoporfin. We just obviously want significant amounts of regrowth like Bargouthis patients results, not 5-6 follicles growing out the scar lol.

Is there any news on Dr Bloxham 5 month update? is he planning to do two months in one update like last time?

The first-ever full FUE procedure with Vert - amazing. It feels like it's gonna be the first of many.

I really hope the patient chooses to share his results, even if it's just pictures of his donor, no face pictures are needed to assess efficacy. Also looking forward to the next trial. Huge thank you to Dr Bargouthi.

Its not going to work for microneedling, it would be a waste of time and resources to pursue in my opinion. The idea is that you block scarring with this drug. blocking scarring and microneedling is not going to cause a hair to go through the multiple cycles it needs to become thick terminal hair. Even if you microneedle deep enough that it removes the hair follicle completely, im still under the belief that blocking scarring will only result in miniaturized hair regrowing. Besides even if it did work then what? Continue a lifelong prescription of Finasteride & Minoxidil? Or do it every month before the hair has time to miniaturise again? Who would want that over a lifelong head of DHT-resistant hair? 

I suppose more conclusive proof that Vert regrows hair has only started rolling in the past 2-3 weeks with these last two updates haha. Given time and an effort to educate others on this new treatment I'm sure it will get there. The fact it is an approved medication is a big game changer compared to other pipeline treatments. It could start being used today really. 

Man this has to go mainstream - this is incredible. The regrowth is pretty clear at this point, the big question left is how many grafts are regenerated?  30? 50%? 70?. Even 30% is incredible, 50%+ would be an effective cure. More testing will no doubt improve the percentage. I wonder how long it would take before this becomes standard practice to incorporate Vert in transplants. Im hoping by the end of 2024 at least 5-10 docs are offering it. Ill be holding off until then.

5 hours ago, tatasabaya said:

New update by Dr. Bloxham:

 

4 patients now show clearly visible regrowth compared to control areas and a biopsy by Dr Barghouthi that had more hair in the area than the control. Fair to say, its working!. I kind of expected it to work to some extent if it worked on a pig model so effectively which has similar skin appendages to humans but my god it actually works. To what extent we can see regrowth who knows its going to take a lot more testing but already incredibly exciting stuff. Big shoutout to the pioneer docs who are working on this, we all can't thank you enough honestly.