FollicleFella

He said it was good to go after 6 weeks from the operation (dermarolling). Interestingly I just hit him up to get his thoughts on prp and he said I could do it but it would probably be a waste of time and money haha. Thought you’d be interested as you’re considering surgery with him. No complaints but I was interested in that take. Will have to do some more research.

Appreciate it my friend! Happy growing to you as well. Definitely looking into prp.

Glad to hear. I am considering it, but I’d really like to leave it until what I feel like is the last option has lapsed (given my past experience w/ fin). Not responding well to the meds made me consider surgery more seriously (and in knowing that it’d be multiple over the years) because of a lack of other options. If they work and you tolerate them I’d say ride that gravy train as long as you can pre surgery, if you even end up needing it. Seen a lot of guys get significant regrowth with fin/min/dermarolling. Being disappointed with the transplant would be whack but is probably what it’d take for me to embark on another fin journey, or if this one is good yet doesn’t want to hold up 5+ years etc. Then yeah, I’m open to it down the line but would like to exhaust my time that I can confidently go sans meds. Definitely going to start dermarolling at some point in the future. The idea of wound healing/blood, oxygen flow makes enough intuitive sense to me that I’d be willing to try just to see.

Right on man! Glad it’s helpful and happy to continue as long as it is. It’s cathartic for me as well in processing the whole experience. Now that I’m out of the acute recovery phase I may switch over to a every 2 or 4 week posting schedule so there’s some more progress between updates. Hope the fin is continuing to work out for you.

Yeah if you get up in there close (the recipient area) you can see the border of where work was done if you were to look for it but thankfully for me noticeable redness dissipated around week 2-3. At this point I’m not really self conscious about being out and about with my hair (other than wishing it were a bit longer/fuller on top of course, to the degree that shaving it highlighted the growth distinction between the back+sides and the top at this point in my life). Haven't thought twice about the donor area since the operation which I suppose is the best outcome. Didn’t have any pain/discomfort there and I’ve been buzzing my back + sides down to a 1 guard or less the past two weeks (since scabs went away) to clean up and give the appearance of a longer/more full top. Don’t notice anything out of place or different in the area at this length. FWIW I haven’t told anyone yet about my procedure other than my family. Frankly I’m just waiting to see if it turns out well before I start advertising it haha. But that to say: everyone just thinks I’ve buzzed my head and to my knowledge doesn’t think anything further about it. I have friends who would definitely inquire otherwise I think if that were different ha. Point being that the experience has been minimally socially invasive. YMMV but after 3 weeks I felt confident that there wasn’t anything “off” about my appearance necessarily.

1 month update! Wow that flew by. 1st pictures here are right up in the light. For compare/contrast purposes here’s a picture of the entire top: and then a normal one in a room midday, no added light: nothing really to report other than we’re definitely in the ugly duckling phase where ones hair looks worse than when you began haha. Thankfully it’s growing and getting darker/more filled in by the day. Numbness remains, but I’m not super worried about it after having talked to the doctor and learning this is normal for a lot of folks even at 6+ months. No discomfort and I’ve largely returned to life as normal. Thinking about doing prp at some point. Would like to take advantage of this short hair and get to a dermatologist to see about my dandruff situation. Any tips from anyone much appreciated! Happy growing all

Right? It was like pulling the curtain back on my own shadow puppetry ha. Frankly pretty stoked my hair looked as good as it did if this was the reality beneath the surface. Tbh…I haven’t noticed an increase in hair fall much. Maybe my expectations about “the shed” were dramatized, maybe the hairs are so small that I don’t notice, or perhaps I just generally shed enough already that the current state of things doesn’t stick out in a particular way. All that to say: if I didn’t preemptively know that shedding the transplanted hairs was a thing, I would not be aware of it based on my current circumstances.

Week 3 update Slowly but surely feeling all healed up! Redness seems to have gone all the way down in the past 10ish days. Scabbing dissipated within the past 7ish. Have returned to light exercise in the wake of this, as well as doing my first scalp massage for a couple minutes today. I haven’t had my hair this short since I was a kid and it really helps to see just how much diffuse thinning has been occurring on the top when compared to the sides (and how much the combover hides). Some different angles/pictures but they’re all right under both a skylight/wall light to hopefully give the best visibility. Surprisingly (but not uncomfortably) still numb to a degree through the recipient area but that is slowly lessening as the days go by. Happy growing all!

Thanks, going to start subtly dropping bang tidy into my regular vernacular

Little 2 weeks from surgery update here Both of these pics are pretty close to the light, first directly and second indirectly. They are pre wash, which inevitably always looks worse from a flaking/scabbing standpoint. Now that I’m outside the immediate post surgery window I’m probably going to take advantage of this buzzcut and start applying some tea tree oil, etc for the scab fall/flaking/dandruff which seems to be the only remaining drag (any recommendations here are much appreciated. I’ve never really tried to address my dandruff outside of beginning to use keto shampoo 1-2x a week like 2 years ago when I found out I had mpb). The redness has gone down a lot, there’s still a slight hue of discoloration, but I definitely feel comfortable being around people without a hat. Just looking in the mirror in a normally lit room things look 90ish% business as usual. Donor area is totally fine and I even got my hair cut/faded yesterday (strictly the back/sides no recipient area).

Thank you the breakdown/explanation, definitely makes sense. I as well wasn’t trying to be passive aggressive when I said to email him about it if you were curious towards the end of considering surgery with the office. To anyone lurking: seems like a very in bounds question for anyone on the fence about dropping that kind of money that a good office will have some rhyme/reason for. Aside from Hasson, who else do you like for naturalness/graft placement? You seem to have good knowledge about the subject and attention to detail. All things are relative of course but do you think Konior is worth the price tag? I would like to get my temples/crown done down the line and, while I certainly have had a good enough experience with Wong up to this point to be a recommendation/repeat customer, Dr. K’s office is just much, much closer to me (albeit with a 1-2 year wait time).

No one is bullying anyone dude you’re giving my transplant flak and I’m giving you flak for how you went about it. It’s not that serious and we can be gentlemen. I’m all for the utility of the forum as a way to unbiasedly compare doctors, I’m not married to Wong I just may as well hope for the best with this one as it’s done! That said (in the effort of learning for myself and others lurking) what’s the deal with horizontal grafting and why it’s sub optimal? Are there any docs you like whose work is a better example of what you’re referring to (placement I’m assuming)?

I figured as much but in case keyboard intention was misread on my end I thought I’d encourage a dialogue if you were genuinely curious or maybe considering surgery with him as they’re pretty open about how and why they do stuff. Anyway, only idiots phrase things like “Not to question but (insert question here)”, particularly in bad faith rhetorical constructs on an anonymous follicle farming forum. My horizontal locks and I will be dabbing on you by next summer. Happy growing!

I don’t know dude email him

Day 10 update! Right up in that light. Happy that the redness is mostly gone. The scabs/flakes are starting to fall off and though this pic is gross, it actually is pretty unnoticeable in a normally lit room w my darker hair. I wouldn’t want to go on a first date at this point but I’m starting to look normal, felt comfortable around people without a hat the last couple days etc. I notice a few hair in my hand after touching my scalp at times. Got to remember to not touch it. I was super good about that the 1st week but have let myself get more liberal since the scabbing. I remember reading they naturally (not losing grafts) potentially come out with the scabs and there’s to be some sort of shed in the 2-3 week juncture if I’m following a normal timeline. Got the okay to exercise once scabbing has totally disappeared so look forward to that hopefully next week.

Hmmm makes sense about the application issues. Appreciate this intel! Glad to hear it’s been well for you and hope it continues in that direction. I definitely noticed the onset of my sides within the first 2-3 weeks so if you’ve cleared that barrier I imagine you tolerate it well.

Day 7 update! Healing seems to be going well. Very happy with how redness has subsided in the recipient area and based off my prior weeks pictures Dr. Wong said I could stop babying my scalp and return to normal washing etc. Facial swelling gone. Itchiness/pain minimal/none, respectively. The scabbing has definitely taken root in the past 2-3 days and I’ve lost some hairs in my daily washing/scab removal (though I understand shedding to be a part of the process and I seem to be on an expedited healing timeline thankfully). Close up in the light, but just looking normally in the mirror with my darker hair thankfully things look 80ish% normal.

Hey right on man, however we can help one another on this journey. How’s that topical fin working out? Same stuff he recommended to me. Any sides to speak of? I tried the oral (which theoretically goes more systemic) like 2 years ago and it was no good for me. Stopped after a month or two. It works for a lot of people and I definitely think the nocebo/placebo effect is real for a portion of reported sides. Everyone’s biased towards whatever they did generally. Dudes who don’t have a problem with fin (or want to believe they don’t) downplay the incidence/severity and those who have issues (or think they do) probably dramatize/demonize it more than it’s deserved. Apologies if tmi but: I had issues keeping it up/maintaining which I was willing to chalk up to anxiety but I also had a qualitatively different (worse) climax sensation and the latter was enough for me to nope out. Thankfully everything subsided after a month off but it was a let down. Was hopeful, played with dosage/frequency, but just didn’t feel like something to mess with in my case. I’ve got a bit better emotional handle on the whole “addressing my hairloss” thing now so perhaps that and some topical is enough to make another attempt. You may not have been on it long enough to notice any benefit but I’ll probably want to keep up with you on how that’s working out if you don’t mind (and obviously to the degree you’re comfortable sharing). If I was pre surgery and without sides I’d probably give fin a good 6-12 months before going under the knife. Who knows, propecia has been around for decades and is well tolerated by many, it may inform your surgery. Hope it works out for you

Fasho. Well it sounds like what he suggested for you is exactly what I ended up going ahead with (hair line + frontal 1/2 rebuilding). You’ll be able to see here what 3000 grafts placed so does for a guy. And theoretically I’ve got 1000 less donor grafts! 5000 remaining grafts after 1 big surgery is a lot. There’s guys who come back from Norwood 5/6 with just that amount. If I recall correctly the crown doesn’t require as much as the front also. Are you on any meds? Couldn’t tolerate them myself but obviously they help (heard several stories of dudes who backed out of ht as unnecessary after seeing medication results). Up to you obviously and no one can tell you when you’re ready. Nothing wrong with waiting to see more how your pattern plays out, or deciding it’s not for you. For me, I did not want to see what another 9-18 months did to my front and that was the wait time I was looking at otherwise for similarly vetted offices (and then another 9-18 months for full result…) With my 4000 remaining, I’m hoping to spend 2000ish on the crown and temples sometime in the next 5 years and then keep the remaining 2000ish for an all around touch up hopefully like 10-20 years from now. Beyond that my beard/chest hair is solid and hopefully there’s new meds, tech, etc Just an example of a plan and I hope you feel good about whatever you end up doing. One thing that stuck out to me during my research was the amount of dudes saying “wish I’d done it sooner” and I felt that. Obviously I don’t have any results to feel good about yet but I can say getting it done was a big psychological weight off my shoulders. Feels peaceful to feel like you’re doing everything you can. Especially given my personal fin experience doing this felt like a big step forward. Your mileage will vary of course.

Thanks! Appreciate the confidence. Testament to Wongs clean work I imagine. Hopefully it keeps trending in that direction. And tbh man I dare say I’m kinda rocking it haha. Ironic to have just dropped 23k on a ht to then learn that a lack of hair also looks pretty good. I hadn’t buzzed it since I was a kid and now that I’ve got the addition of a beard, some tats, and 15 years of lifting it definitely works in its own way. Obviously prefer the option and a solid hairline is key. Speaking of: your earlier comment regarding your consultation/eyebrow to hairline ratio inspired me to grab a ruler and indeed…right about 7 cm. Not sure where yours currently sits but refer back to that pic of mine for an idea of where yours would probably land. Sounds like our cases may be mighty similar for sure.

Right on man, we’re in it together 👊 Donor area pre op I chose this one because it highlights my thinning crown/cowlick area (right under the light). My hair is long/thick enough that I can cover/mask it pretty easily with some tactical styling/spray however. Couple inches above average height as well so it helps that statistically most folks don’t get a great view ha. Didn’t get any work there this time around but I’ll probably fill that in along with some temple work for my next surgery sometime in the next few years. Hopefully then I (and my pocketbook) will get to chill for a decade lol. Actually didn’t think to take any donor area shots immediately post op but here’s a look at donor day 4: Head is slightly turned to get into the light but even the clinic noted that my donor area healed up markedly quickly. I can’t really notice much unless I get right up in there in some light. You can see the contrast line/redness which I’m hoping fades out. I’m not averse to doing smp down the line as well to help with any scarring. Again, part of dropping the cash on a place like H&W is in the hope that the extraction was clean and will have minimal scarring.

Appreciate the vote of confidence my friend! And yes hairloss can be super emotional. I think it’s even less “I won’t look as good” and more the unavoidable confrontation with one’s mortality and that this body we all largely take for granted won’t last forever, and certainly not in the youthful form you spend the initial 30ish years growing accustomed to. Whenever I get the “oh why me” feels I try to remember that there’s always someone who would do anything to be in your circumstances generally. You’re not in a wheelchair/movement impeded, you’ve got your mental faculties, and you’ve got options. If one has enough money/wherewithal for a HT then one is already a pretty privileged person in a world where most folks live on less than $5 a day or whatever. It’s a bit of a cliche but I think there’s truth/value in the notion that just living long enough to experience the problem of hairloss is something to be grateful for (certainly have loved ones in my life that didn’t get the chance unfortunately). Blessed>stressed. We goin’ make it! If you’re basically N1 after 1 surgery at sub 3000 grafts then your loss probably isn’t noticeable to others. Sounds like you can tolerate fin and you’ve got a good donor area that’ll be solid for another couple procedures down the line if you feel you need them. Who knows what medicine, tech, crazy gene editing they’ll come out with over the next 20 years. People (deservedly) rag on the glacial pace with which mpb gets researched and addressed but by that same token hair transplants from 20 years ago are night/day with what they can do now. I think the future is bright.

Day 4! Not much to report. Photos directly under bathroom light. My hair is dark enough that in an unlit room the redness seems to be slowly blending in already. Washing daily with baby shampoo per instructions from the clinic. Trying to take it easy by minimizing exertion, going for some easy walks a few times a day, very passive stretching, eating as healthy as possible (minimizing sugar/processed foods), drinking a gallon of water a day, getting 7-8 hours of sleep, and staying stress free having taken a couple weeks off of work. For what it’s worth I don’t drink alcohol and I’ve stopped using thc and caffeine for this recovery period (at least a month maybe more). In the interest of transparency: I am still using nicotine in the form of vaping but I’m going to try and cut that out before the end of the month. Have cutback significantly. I’ve been doing it for 14 years now and cold turkey is obviously difficult (didn’t actually realize until surgery day this was advised otherwise I would’ve tapered/tried quitting properly beforehand. Stupidity/the rushed nature of filling a relatively last minute slot I suppose). The face swelling has set in, but fortunately no pain, tightness, or itchiness to speak of particularly. Really looking forward to this redness dissipating hopefully by the end of the month but it’ll be whatever it’ll be! I’m off work for the next 2-3 weeks and if that could happen before then that’d be grand. Seems time and patience are the best medicines to this effect and there looks to be a wide range of self reported redness (2 weeks to 6+ months) based on skin color, individual healing rate, etc. Any tips towards this end appreciated! Happy growing and hope it’s a great weekend.

Interesting take! Of course I sure hope this surgery doesn’t come at to great a cost to my native hair haha. I think what you’re referring to is shock loss and yeah that’s always a possibility to a varying degree with each case/how a persons body reacts to the trauma of surgery. To your point of transplanted hair accelerating native hair loss…I think that’d be hard to tell for real. In the sense of, after a year especially, what is hair loss due to natural progression versus hair loss due to transplanted hair “stealing blood supply” from native hair? It’s impossible to know what one would look like without surgery and it’s further complicated by the fact that hair cycles are already super long/uneven. I think your point is why a lot of people say it takes like 18 months to really assess where you’re at/what the ultimate affect was. This^ is how I’d wear my hair presurgery. As noted, I have a relatively decent amount of it! It’s thick as far as mpb standards go, darker, and my donor area is strong (still got 4000 grafts for potential future surgeries). That said you can see the combover here (any shorter and it’s obvious), that my bangs are thinning out, etc. For example if I were to push my hair back (compare to my pre surgery pics above) in this picture you could see into my mid scalp/as far back as where I had hair transplanted in. Ultimately your point is largely why I wanted to save up enough to go to a top clinic like H&W so that I could get as much benefit while having a skilled enough surgeon to minimize native interference. If I can maintain the appearance of the picture I posted in this reply 5-7 years from now I’ll be super happy. I wasn’t necessarily going for a brand new look, but rather to buy more time with my existing look as loss inevitably progresses until I need more work to maintain what I feel I need now to be confident. I’m sure that in 18 months my loss would’ve kept progressing to a point I was unhappy with (already was truth be told!) and I didn’t want to wait to find out.

Thanks Ryan!! Feeling really good about it and thankful for this forum and the year+ of lurking it provided for me haha. Hope to update over the next year and inspire some other padawans to take the leap if that’s what’s best for them.