jim1973

1 hour ago, 4chanhue said:

I also had sides on microdosing topical fin as well. Not even mild ED, complete limp dick. I think I'm just super sensitive to these meds. I spoke to my parents, who are doctors. They told me it's not worth it to continue when you are having sides. These are endocrine disruptive medicines and it is possible that some people are just super sensitive to them. Sucks, but what can you do.

I'm wondering if it's the estrogen causing sides due to aromatisation of free test. I'll look into a blood test if I get the time/referral for one.

I was on topical min since 3 yrs and that has stabilised hair loss, albeit it's slowly getting worse. Switched to oral min(1.25mg 2x/day) a month back. Let's see if it helps. I may get on Saw Palmetto because I noticed I don't have side effects on it.

Doing micro needling and keto shampoo as well. Not much more I can do. 

Did you ever try oral Finasteride or only topical?  I'm on oral with no sides but also not stabilized.  I'm considering topical to ensure the medication gets to my follicles.  If I didn't have negative sides on oral, I feel less likely to get sides from topical but not sure.  I just want to stabilize badly so considering trying everything.   

14 hours ago, hairman4321 said:

i think that is a good outcome though - you haven't crushed your dht systemically, you've still got a normal amount. The range for recycleBin showed 38 as almost exactly middle. and you've probably crushed dht in the scalp!

I've been on oral Dut for almost a year and similar to others, never measured my DHT before (was in oral Fin for 7-8 years).  After 6 months, I measured my serum DHT and it was much lower than normal (see pic).  Having said that, I still gym every day, keep muscle, no lost libido and my Testosterone has actually increased.  I'm also on oral Minoxidil which causes some water weight gain.  My only issue is that I'm still losing hair and haven't stabilized.  I wonder if there is a chance that I'm only lowering DHT in my blood but not as much in my scalp. I was actually thinking of switching both oral Dut and Min into a compounded topical product to ensure everything works as well as possible for my scalp (to avoid the scenario I'm in, which is its affecting serum but unsure how much in scalp). I feel like my scalp Testosterone must still be high if I'm still losing hair with this level of serum DHT but not sure how to correct it or what else I can do.  Any suggestions? 

57 minutes ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

I had a similar worry. When it was delivered, it was delivered to my mailbox. It was over 100 degrees. I thought it was ruined. But I haven’t noticed a difference. I think its okay as long as it wasn’t hot for several days. 

Unfortunately the pharmacy is in Indiana and I live in AZ.  The package was definitely exposed to the heat elements for several days before reaching me.  The downside is that there really is no real way to know for sure.  

10 hours ago, 4chanhue said:

I'm thinking maybe topical dutasteride 1x/week can be supplemented with natural DHT blockers like saw palmetto/pumpkin seed oil, vitamins like biotin, microneedling and oral minoxidil. That's what I'm planning to do. At end of the day there's no point in doing things that you can't follow long term and everything together should be good enough to maintain.

I just received my first dose of topical combo (Finasteride, Dutasteride and Minoxidil) from a compounding pharmacy.  I live in a very hot state and the package was not climate controlled.  When I opened up the envelope, it was hot to the touch.  Question for the group....do you think the heat ruined the active ingredients?  Or do you think as long as I put it back in a room temperature environment, the active ingredients will still work?  (I called the pharmacy and of course, they told me everything will be fine but easy for them to say).  I've seen posts where it states to keep at room temp and others state to refrigerate.  I'm now worried that the product is ruined no matter which I do.  Does anyone know for sure if this batch should work properly or not?  

13 hours ago, A_4_Archan said:

@jim1973

If you don't have side effects than don't switch to different forms....to see its full potential take it religiously for 12 months and thn reassess your situation and plan accordingly...

I have heard that if you don't see results in 4-6 months, then it isn't working.  I've also seen what you recommend (wait 12 months).  Its just tough to wait out the daily shedding without an end in sight.  I feel as though some are better responders to topical than oral but I may still wait a little longer.  

On 7/30/2023 at 2:38 PM, A_4_Archan said:

Are you on Finasteride ? Actually minoxidil won't help you in that but finasteride helps in slowing down /halting hairloss progression and will not let them get miniaturized 

I'm actually on .5mg/day of oral Dutasteride for as long as I've  been taking oral Minoxidil

I took 2.5mg of oral Min for 6 months (and .5/mg of Dut) with no side effects (positive or negative).  I increased my dose of oral Min to 5mg/day since April.  I see increased body hair (arms and legs, not back or anywhere else) so I just simply trim it down.  Unfortunately, I'm still shedding at a rapid rate and not seeing much in the way of new growth on my scalp.  Thinking of switching to a topical application (for both Min and either Fin or Dut).  

On 8/21/2023 at 9:08 AM, mustang said:

The more DHT you blocks the higher the Free T will be. 5AR inhibitors are far more effective on the crown and vertex than on the hairline.

I’ve seen it happen dozens of times now on people switching from Finasteride to Dutasteride making their frontal hair loss progress rapidly.

I believe (and this is just a theory and anecdotal) that the hairline and temples are more prone to free testosterone than to DHT or maybe just as prone. 

This is obvious on people taking testosterone having almost 0 DHT with Dutasteride and losing ground rapidly. 

This is exactly my concern.  I switched from oral Fin (after many years) to oral Dut once I felt Fin was no longer holding ground for me.  Unfortunately, I'm still no longer holding and losing more on Dut than I did on Fin.  I'm wondering if my workouts are causing my testosterone to rise and cause more scalp T than in the rest of my body.  

11 hours ago, mustang said:

This confirms to me that hairlines are much more prone to Test than DHT, seen it happen over and over again with people who take Dutasteride

Are you stating that topical or oral Dutasteride doesn't work well for frontal hair loss?  (A little confused on your statement related to what you've seen over and over related to DHT and "Test")

17 hours ago, mustang said:

FIN use 0.01% , not 1%, you get a 10% DHT reduction for ever ml roughly 

DUT mesotherapy  0.05% not made in the US

 

I have seen the studies where .01% (or similar) can work just as well as larger doses without risking systemic side effects.  That said, it seems most commercialized products from the big brands (Hims, Keeps, Roman, Happy Head, and others), always have a dose of .25% or .30%.  I wonder why they want to increase the dose so much if a lower dose would work for most.  Any thoughts on this subject?  

11 hours ago, mmokin said:

is there any difference in systemic absorption between the liposomal solution and Trichosol solution for topical dutasteride, thank you in advance

I'm interested in this answer also.  I've read that the liposomal formulation takes longer to absorb but causes less irritation and the opposites for Trichosol but I can't confirm.  

3 hours ago, TRC79 said:

Update- I ramped up to twice weekly, then 3x weekly and tested my DHT. This time it did show a drop. If we look at my previous test that came in at 50 and compare it to this test that came in at 38, its about a 24% drop. I think for now that's where I am comfortable and will remain for the foreseeable future, 3x weekly. Now for some who say, well guess topical dut does go systemic, I think its well understood all topicals do, its just the matter of how much. Also there is the topic of the metabolites created by the liver of oral medications which could cause problems, that are avoided by doing topical, which is a whole other rabbit hole I don't want to dive into. As for sides, nothing stands out, I have been getting very dry eyes lately and if you chase online possible connections. you will find them lol. It might be the heat we are experiencing and excessive use of the ceiling fan/ac.  Regardless, will monitor it.

The next issue will be efficacy, I am a bit concerned that my slight widows peak area is looking more see through. Its also lost some of it softness, meaning I think I've shed some of the thinner hairs and only the very thick ones have remained. Im hoping this is the good shed with stronger hairs on the horizon. 

That is all for now.

Can you summarize what amount (and product with quantities) taken at each of the 4 timeframes listed above?  (Which gave you scores of 28, 15, 50 and 38?)

I'm ready to try a topical product to stop my hair loss.  There are so many topical products available that contain the key ingredients (Minoxidil along with Finasteride or Dutasteride) and I was hoping to get real opinions on the versions that you all use that you feel work best for you.  Whether its from a hair loss doctor that performed your transplant procedure or a big company such as Hims, Keeps, Roman, Happy Head, etc., I'm interested in your experiences (good or bad).  Some people state they work but get bad sides, while others state they get no sides but aren't sure if they actually work.  If you have a specific product that you currently use or have used and you don't mind sharing your experience with it, whether positive or negative, I'd appreciate it.  Thank you in advance from someone who seems to be a non-responder to oral medications.  Thanks!  

18 hours ago, mustang said:

Yes. If you crush your DHT then your scalp free T will be higher.

Look into adding 17A-Estradiol (0.025%) you your protocol to increase aromatase activity on your scalp to reduce Free T. It also will block DHT at your scalp level and it has no feminizing side effects, it's extremely weak (not to be confused with 17 Beta-Estradiol. 

A lof of people order Dutasteride with 17 alfa-estradiol. It's a proven and effective hair loss compound. It's used in Germany on men and women instead of Finasteride

 

Do you recommend 17a-Estradiol taken orally or applied topically?  Is there a company that already makes and sense either Fin or Dut with 17a-estradiol already that you know of or do people simply get it compounded?  

34 minutes ago, ThePerseverantWarrior said:

5 mg dutasteride daily or oral minoxidil? And for exactly how long have you been on dutasteride? And what's your baldness grade?

Current: .5mg oral Dutasteride daily (never took topically) and 5mg oral Minoxidil daily.  When I started each one is in my last thread.  I started losing hair at 18.  I'm now 50.  My hair loss stopped in my late 20s, early 30s then picked up so I began oral Finasteride and topical Minoxidil.  That combo worked for me for roughly 7 years before it no longer worked (from 2020-2022 I thought it was temporary but that combo really did stop working), which is why I started the new regimen in 2022.  I'm prob a NW4a right now but quickly moving to 5 category.

1 minute ago, ThePerseverantWarrior said:

How long have you been on oral dutasteride? And have you got your vital vitamin levels checked? 

I started oral Dut (1.25mg) in Aug 2022, moved up to 2.5mg in Dec and onto 5mg in April of this year.  I get my blood tests done every 6 months and I was low on Ferritin in 2021 so I began taking a Ferritin supplement to bring that into normal range since then.  Everything else has been normal.  I feel like I'm a non-responder to oral Dutasteride for some reason.  My libido is much higher on Dut than it was in Fin many years ago.  I'm now in a position where I may need to try a topical anti-androgen such as Breezula or Pyralutamide.  The only downside is that these products are not yet FDA approved so I'd need to obtain from a grey market if I proceed, which is not ideal.  

4 hours ago, A_4_Archan said:

Are you on Finasteride ? Actually minoxidil won't help you in that but finasteride helps in slowing down /halting hairloss progression and will not let them get miniaturized 

I'm on oral Dutasteride (.5mg/day) and oral Minoxidil (5mg/day).  Hair is still falling more rapidly than the previous year.

7 minutes ago, A_4_Archan said:

Minoxidil will not grow new hairs..it will help to make the existing ones more fuller and thicker and you already seeing that..so its working on you but will not work more thn this...

Unfortunately only my body hair is becoming thicker.  My scalp hairs are all miniaturizing still.  Every day, I lose more hair and even the hair on my head have become noticeably thinner over the last year.  

On 4/11/2023 at 8:10 AM, TorontoMan said:

I'm a RU user now for little over a year (along with fin) and when I first got it from Anagenic and used it, I got awful side effects. I then went and sourced it from a Wuhan Lab directly where I was a part of a larger group buy for it and someone had organized third party testing. With the purity coming back 98%, I began using it at very small doses and worked my way up. I don't have side effects from RU now, and nothing close to what I experienced the first time around. The point I'm making is, I'm suspicious about a lot of the reviews on reddit as most of those guys are ordering from fairly shady sites imo such as Anagenic, MInoxidilmax etc. These companies are more than likely sourcing their compounds from China as well, but my hunch is that the quantity being ordered, how its being handled in the process, the testing their doing etc etc , is not ideal. 

I also bought pyrlutamide for two of my best friends from Wuhan. One has been on it now for 6 months and the other around 3, neither have reported any side effects from it and its too early to judge what its doing for their hair. The intention with my comment isn't to promote any of these chems to anyone or deny that sides are possible, but I do think some of these kids on reddit are not the best source for information. My biggest realization on reddit was that a lot of these guys are young and some neurotic, they will tell you something isn't working for them after trying it for 2-3 months.. 

Thanks for sharing this update.  Its a good reminder for us to not just purchase from anyone selling due to poor quality control.  For where you obtain your RU, is it a place that the general public can order from?  If so, can you share the company/lab?  

I started at 1.25mg.  I noticed chest tight within first week or two (only once or twice).  I thought about stopping due to the potential heart risks but I pushed through.  Those chest pains went away.  After 2 months, I titrated up to 2.5mg and had no sides.  I stayed on that dose for 6 months before moving up to 5mg/day (2.5 in am and then 2.5 in pm).  No negative sides other than water retention around mid-section.  Body hair and beard hair see the most benefit as that all grows very fast now.  Unfortunately even though my scalp hair is growing faster, I'm not seeing any positive results (no new hair and no thickening that I can tell).  I'm actually still losing hair.  

8 hours ago, mustang said:

Update: shedding has finally stopped.

Hair is feeling a little thicker. 

No side effects so far. 

Using 2ml a day.

 

Thanks for documenting your journey.  For those of us that don't respond well to the standard, recommended products, this gives some of us hope.  I've not heard of Anagenic before this post but will certainly take a look at them.  Can you clarify if you are spreading the product all over scalp or just in specific areas?  And do you think this regimen would work as well if you weren't micro-needling? 

It seems that unless Minoxidil converts to Minoxidil Sulfate, that it won't work.  That said, it seems that there used to be products in early and mid-2000s, that sold as Minoxidil Sulfate products but I don't see those advertised anymore.  If Minoxidil only works for those who have the needed enzyme to convert to Minoxidil Sulvate, why not just purchase and apply Minoxidil Sulfate directly to avoid the need for a specific enzyme that only 50% of people have?  Are there no existing products selling Minoxidil Sulfate?  

On 1/17/2017 at 2:42 PM, rachel1967 said:

I don't want to get kicked off the forum for posting links or brand names

 

But, if you search "minoxidil sulfate" it on ebay.

 

It should pop up. It's the only brand sold in the USA.

 

Hope this helped.

I don't think there are any issues with posting brand names, especially if they are positive reviews.  I'd appreciate learning of where to purchase Min Sulfate.  Regular Min isn't working for me (topical or oral).  Looking forward to your reply, thanks..

On 1/20/2017 at 4:58 PM, rachel1967 said:

I have been using "Minoxidil Sulfate" for a while now.

 

It's seems to be the only form of minoxidil that works for me (& I have tried them all).

 

 

 

I did some more reading about Minoxidil sulfate that I found interesting.

 

I read that regular Minoxidil doesn't work on some individuals because of a lack of a certain naturally produced enzyme on their scalp/skin, & therefore, they will never see any results.

 

 

Minoxidil Sulfate takes care of this problem because whether or not the individual has this "enzyme" it will work regardless.

 

 

I can't speak for anyone else, but Minox Sulfate has been a God send for me.

 

I can even see new hairs that are growing well below my normal hairline (about an inch to an inch & a half). So much so, that sometimes I have to pluck them because they are growing too low below my hairline.

 

But, that could also be because sometimes I'm in a rush and do not properly wash and Minox Sulfate that drips down my forehead.

 

I should try applying it to the back of my hand as an experiment to see if I grow hair there,lol.

 

 

If you google "minoxidil sulfate buy" the 3rd link down id selling minoxidil sulfate powder for between $180-$230 a kilo, so it's not that expensive, but it is typically more expensive than regular minoxidil.

 

 

 

2 major advantages of Minox sulfate is that it is very water soluble, which means it doesn't leave any goopy propylene glycol mess. Also I read the bioavailablity of water based minoxidils are far more superior the propylene glycol based minoxidil topicals.

 

 

 

IDK if I can't post links here, even though it is a link to a clinical study. But, the study says:

 

 

"The water-soluble minoxidil composition is formulated by mixing minoxidil with polymers and enhancers. The polymers in the composition maintain the solubility of minoxidil in the water-based formula. The enhancers improve the transdermal efficacy of minoxidil in comparison with that of 5% Rogaine. In FIG. 1, the dorsal skins of rat were treated with various water-soluble minoxidil compositions or 5% Rogaine for 1 hour. The intact or decutinized skins were cut, and homogenized. The permeated minoxidil was extracted and analyzed by HPLC. The results indicated the 2% water-soluble minoxidil composition achieved the same penetrating ability as that of 5% Rogaine. In FIG. 2, the 2% water-soluble minoxidil composition, with or without an enhancer for either a 6-hour or 24-hour period, had a greater transdermal enhancement than that of 5% Rogaine."

 

If you google the quote above you might find the study that I'm talking about.

 

Take care.

 

Rachel

Are you still using Min Sulfate and if so, where do you purchase from? 

On 1/5/2023 at 12:56 AM, V2.Schneider said:

Ohh I wish that was true for me. Five years on oral minoxidil of varying doses, five years on finasteride and/or dutasteride. I'm a non responder to everything I try .

Hopefully the transplant will come good eventually.

I feel I'm in the same boat.  I've been on 5mg of oral Minoxidil and .5mg of oral Dutasteride for a year and still losing ground.  I feel I'm a non-responder to everything also.  Have you tried anything else such as a topical antiandrogen or something similar?