GeneralNorwood

So the buzzcut is the best option for now in my opinion. Looks neat.

8 hours ago, caveman said:

Hey everyone haven’t updated in a while. As of now not much has changed. My hair is still dry and brittle but a big improvement from where I started. That being said I want to go for a second procedure. However, as of now I can’t afford it or spend another year to grow the hair back out. 
 

Instead, I’m seriously considering getting SMP done. I actually enjoy the buzz cut look and feel with the current coverage I have, adding SMP and keeping hair short can give a great result while having a 3D look (with the hairs that I have transplanted already). I will add some final update pictures tomorrow as it has been 13 months since the procedure.

 

for the SMP, I want them to fix the hairline and temple points without “lowering” the hairline much. I’ll provide some examples tomorrow and look forward to getting feedback from you all. 
 

I DO NOT regret getting a transplant. I’m in a much better place than I was before. However, using toppik everyday and worrying about my hair all the time and getting constant hair cuts has gotten me exhausted. I was hoping the transplant would alleviate all these issues but it has not. Additionally, my hair quality in person is so poor that even when grown out it does not look appealing AT ALL. I think I would prefer to have a clean cut look and I believe  the current transplant along with SMP might help me achieve my goals. 
 

 

I understand perfectly your thoughts, went through the same way of thinking. 

HT is supposed to fix some issue, but often it creates another, especially when 1 procedure isn't enough for full coverage. 

Before my HT i didn't really care about styling my hair. But after, when i saw so many new imperfections and weaknesses on my scalp, i begun to style my hair and i can say that it resembled some kind of obsession. Once, for example, I didn't go to the gym because my hair wasn't styling at all. Maybe such behavior seems ridiculous, but it was just a result of frustration.

When I realized that this was not the way to go, I gave up on styling significantly. It was liberating. 

So my piece of advice is, worry about your hair less. Easy to say, harder to do. But remember that you are the person who cares the most about your hair, not the other people. 

You have this advantage, that after your HT, now your balding pattern looks completely natural, so i think random people wouldn't recognize at all that you had the procedure. 

About this SMP, so it's same like for HT, you have to do research, if you want to get better result. For me i think it's not good option, because i have blonde hair, but even if i had black, i don't like he idea of buzzcuting my scalp everyday. 

Maybe look out for another barber that will propose some haircut that will suit you and provide less pressure on styling, so you can chill out. 

Guys, maybe you don't know,This was before 2nd procedure, so it was amazing back then. I don't think extra procedure was necessary. 

8 hours ago, Melvin- Admin said:

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I think this hairline looks good. 

 

If we operate only in terms good/bad, we oversimplify the debate. 

For sure i wouldn't say that this hairline looks bad. But it didn't look bad before procedure either. He was only norwood 2, with good density. 

Hairline after HT with 40-45 grafts in the front doesn't look so good as natural 90FU/cm2. And it's not only about density, but other factors too, like thickness of hair or changes in the skin. Weaknesses of the new hairline are more visible when it's combed backwards. 

\\

On the picture above i agree that hairline looks better, it is because hair is combed forward,  hair is stacking and illussion of density works in favor. 

However we don't have fair comparision with hair combed forward before the procedure. So can't really say if it was worth it.

7700 grafts and the donor looks untouched, it's amazing.

Well, before HT his hairline was little receeding, but looked very dense and natural. 

After HT recession is eliminated, however final outcome looks less natural and less dense in the hairline. Photos are not in the best resolution, but i think they did him some cobblestoning too(dots on the skin). Just zoom the picture below: 

13 minutes ago, Reina said:

I think they have dr Sethi and dr bansal on the list because they are the founders of the clinic, which doesn’t mean that the other doctors of this clinic are not recommended. 

Just read the post i linked

49 minutes ago, 2ndchance said:

I think you will be fine with a second procedure in combination with beard/body hair. Think positive, could be much worse. Dr Pitella would be my first choice but i cannot afford him also considering the transport cost to get there.

I am not planning to use beard/body grafts, but don't worry, i think positive and i am fully aware after seeing multiple cases that it could be much worse.

If you are diffuse thinner like me, i recommend to check similar cases to yours, that means similar norwood stage and similar diffuse thining pattern. And upon that choose your surgeon. 

39 minutes ago, Reina said:

Eugenix clinic in general is recommended not the specific doctors. 

Not true, please check this post by Melvin : 

https://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/topic/66820-eugenix-3514-grafts-720-on-the-temples-may-2022-dr-priyadarshini-das/?do=findComment&comment=748324

I invite you to check my case

On 12/3/2023 at 8:18 PM, Tommy1991 said:

Really poor planning. 

It’s inexcusable that with your hair colour and naturally fine hair that the hairline would be lowered as much. In your case to lower your hairline 1cm it could be damn near 800-1000grafts.

I am shocked that none of the so called experienced guys here are saying that the grafts are even placed on the vertical plane of your scalp. Well before the curvature of your forehead. Mind boggling… 

Doctors should show intuition in all hair transplant cases, this copy and paste approach does not work.

My advice is to look for a doctor who is happy to raise your hairline by 1cm. It may be a little over the top to some but you have clear signs of aggressive hairloss. 

Hope you can find the right solution. 

 

Raising the hairline it is one of options to get this 1000 grafts back. But this kind of operation requires 3 procedures, so i am not so eager to do that. So firstly i want to use the classical donor. 

Hello, great outcome

Can you show latest crown pictures? 

I just looked through yours thread now.

So basically your hairloss pattern was something like this: 

Hasson wanted to close the deal in 2 operations, that would 6000 grafts total. But after first surgery ~4000 grafts, it doesn't look like extra 2000 grafts will do the job. 

The planning was poor in my opinon. Implanting 900 grafts into the crown, where the needs of this area are much greater, was a bad idea. Now the effect is that the front is still balding and the crown is also balding. It seemed a much better idea to focus on the frontal third and midscalp, so the final look after first HT would be more appealing.

2900 grafts were implanted for the pretty big area in the front. It wasn't enough. I didn't see detailed information how much grafts per cm2 were implanted in different areas though. 

If I were you, I'd forget about dr Hasson as he didn't put much care in your case.

Get in touch with doctors from the "new school of HT". That is Zarev, Pittella, Ferreira*.  Doctors that see in average donor not 5000-6000 grafts, but 10000+. 

* Bruno Ferreira is more conservative then Zarev or Pitella, but he often sees in patients around 9000-10000 grafts in donor, cause his extraction zone is large too compared to classical. 

5 hours ago, mister_25 said:

@GeneralNorwood I am interested to hear what steps you are considering on moving forward and how you will approach future surgeries from now.

 

Now the most important thing for me are the next live consultations. Based on them, I will draw conclusions and decide where I will perform the second transplant. 

5 hours ago, mister_25 said:

I also want to know, has any of the surgeons that you have communicated with told you what type of obstacles will be present because of the poor planning? What type of issues are present now that would not of been there if you have appropriate planning from the beginning.

Obstacle is that now the area to cover is over 200cm2. If the hairline had not been lowered by 2cm, the area to be covered would have been smaller

18 minutes ago, Melvin- Admin said:

I’m pretty sure this post is from the clinic. But the fact that this is the type of work they feel is good to advertise is absolutely shocking. Imagine the work they don’t want to show. 

42 minutes ago, Ccd99 said:

Wow this looks so bad... I feel bad for the OP if he thinks this is a good result.

Guys, are you speaking about first post by Max111 in this thread? 

Of course it is not from the clinic. It is from unhappy patient. 

It is just full of sarcasm like this : 

"you will find my current photographs, which will show you the quality of the services of Krasavchik, NairNeva and Dr. Alim Süleyman better than a thousand words."

Definitely not an advertisement 🤣

Wow, just terrible work. Why the hell they didn't extract this grafts

And this white hole(in blue circle) between temple points and hairline, wtf is this. Also fronto-temporal angle is obtuse.

The doctor that led your surgery, really needs to see this video : 

3 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

Are you sure that 5K+ graft count doesn’t include beard hair? Pittella has no issues going in early with beard grafts so 5K doesn’t sound too far fetched between both scalp & beard. 

with beard grafts it wouldn't be 11,600-13,600 strands of hair, this number indicates scalp grafts. 

15 hours ago, general-etwan said:

I contacted Pittella though for a consultation and after sending him these most recent pics and all my info, including that I already had 2 transplants and for the graft totals of each, he sent back the following:

HT FUE in 1 giga-session
5,500 grafts (11,600-13,600 strands of hair)
Priority to front area, cover midscalp and gradient to the crown area

I'm going to do the paid video consultation option with him to get clarification on this, because I'm not sure if this makes total sense. My already completed 8,300 grafts plus another 5,500 is 13,800 total grafts and I don't think another 5,500 can be taken from my donor so I'm not sure where's he's getting these numbers from. I expected something like 2,000-3,000 more grafts to add more density across the entire head. Will have to do video consultation to follow up on this.
 

If Pittella had taken care of you from the beginning, 11-000-12,000 grafts wouldn't have been unusual. 13,800 grafts, on the other hand, would be among the record holders.

Zarev often says that if a patient had transplants before, he can't take as much grafts as if the patient comes to him right away.

So i think that this solution to take extra 5500 grafts will deplete donor to this state that longer hairstyle on the sides and back won't be appealing. But again, it is solution that Zarev talks about.

The math should be checked and the question is why Pittella assumed this high number of grafts so easily without live consultation. 

On 11/28/2023 at 3:40 AM, general-etwan said:

@GeneralNorwood There are a lot of comments here that I've tried to read through, and have gotten through some of them. I have to say I agree with your assessment of your situation very much, and understand your position on the planning by the clinic now. Unfortunately my situation was addressed in a similar way that doesn't seem to be entirely proper planning.

In my case, I think the physical quality of my 2 HTs there has been very good...the work was performed very well and the growth has been very strong overall. I agree with you now that planning seems to be the issue. In my case, as we discussed, my lateral hump areas should have been addressed more in a 1st procedure, and the crown left for a future operation if I wanted it. I do not regret having my temples done at all because it has made a big difference so far from the front, and now I can use pictures of myself without a hat on and be mostly satisfied with my look. I'm thankful for that. But they do definitely have two different techs do one temple each. My right temple is stronger than my left; no person in public would really notice, but I know how to tell the difference. But the biggest problem is this disconnect of hair that has been left on top, with retreating lateral humps and lower crown. In my most recent, 2nd procedure, which addressed this area, even Dr. Sethi would not commit to fully closing that gap at any place, as he said it could always recede more. But I don't know if that's a great reason for not closing the gap completely at the time. Sure, it could depend on a person's goals, but I think for advanced Norwoods, one of the biggest goals should be not leaving any drastic gaps or disconnections on the head other than where it would be completely natural (the circular crown area).

I wish you the best in your future efforts to keep tackling this. For me, I am not yet pleased with how slow my lateral humps and lower crown have come in since my 2nd procedure. I know they will come in stronger over the next few months, but even with that, I can tell that I don't think I'll be ultimately satisfied with the overall distribution or the line of disconnect at the lower crown that I now have. I have contacted Dr. Pittella and am awaiting his consultation on my situation. I am very interested in him, but unless he would be able to offer me something lower-priced than his typical, I won't be able to afford it at this time.

So I see that, more and more former Eugenix patients are noticing the lack of planning and are looking for other clinics.

I agree 100% with what you wrote. Treating lateral humps in your case should start in first procedure and then some grafts could be added in second. Like here : https://youtu.be/XASvPhbsRO4?t=549

Leaving gaps and dissconections is unpleasing. I don't get this idea. Is it to make us unhappy and come back? Homogenous extraction and implantation makes more sense for me. One of the doctors that i talked to said "You can't have surgery every year,you have a life."

At the end of the day, it's us who care most about the final result. With this in mind, it is worth choosing a doctor who will spend a little more than 5 minutes planning and just eyeballing the donor. It doesn't have to be at Zarev's level, where everything is calculated to the letter, but I think the closer to this method, the better.

My piece of advice. Don't rush in to the next procedure. Talk to different surgeons and take your time analysing all options

1 hour ago, duchaine said:

You regreat going low because the hairline is thicker/denser than the middle scalp?

I regret going low, because i need at least 6000 grafts behind frontal third 🙃

Yeah, generally the hair callibre in the hairline looks too thick. And some double grafts are visible.

The scar is wide, and not in one place, but along its entire length. 

Possibility of widening of the scar is the only thing that discourages me from FUT

Overall, touching up the hairline with FUE and extracting some double and thicker grafts is now an option. 

1 hour ago, Berba11 said:

My face is tilted down there. 
 

The distance between the glabella and mid-frontal point is now smaller than the distance between the tip of my nose and chin (whereas it used to be the same). You can’t tell from that photo. My hairline was lowered by about 2cm in total.

 

Yeah, it is little tilted down, but i still think in terms of facial proportions it is ok. Unfortunately, i didn't see in your thread this photo with black lines before HT, so i didn't know they lowered it by 2 cm (similar to mine) 

1 hour ago, Berba11 said:

That green line would mean my hairline was entirely on the frontalis muscle as mine is naturally higher. The “rule” of thirds is not a rule. It’s a rough guideline. What’s more important is an individual’s physiology: frontalis muscle, distances between sections of the face + donor capacity, additional hair loss and how the hairline will look at 50, 60 etc. 

Of corse it is a guideline and other factors matter, i agree. But i mean, it is what it is right now.

If i move my eyebrows and frontalis muscle, hairline near MFP is moving very little, it's not big deal. If you don't have big hairline movement too, i don't see it is worth it to take back hairline higher by 1 cm in 3 surgeries and gain only around 700 grafts. 

1 hour ago, Berba11 said:

In any case, I’d prefer for you to stop posting pictures of me in your thread and to remove the ones you’ve posted. 

 I assumed it is not problem since you post it by yourself on this forum, but ok, i deleted photo with your face visible.

12 hours ago, Berba11 said:

I’m fully aware of what a hairline extraction requires, and may not even go ahead with such work, but it’s something I’m considering (hence the consultations). Having to wait a couple of years for the consults is useful to me as it gives me time to decide and also monitor any additional hair loss. 

3:09 - Leonardo Da Vinci's rule of thirds 😅

https://youtu.be/T64u40q3t9s?t=189

So generally this rule(with funny reference to Da Vinci) that people in HT community like to bring out says that distance from the hairline(MFP) to glabella should be 1/3 and from glabella to the bottom of face 2/3. 

I checked your proportions and it is 36,1 % to 63,9%(red and blue line). It means that to achieve perfect 33,33% to 66,66%, your harline should be even lower (like green line). 

So generally, your harline isn't too low in terms of face proportions.

My hairline is lower then yours. They did lower it by 2 cm and my proportions are truely 1/3 to 2/3. 

So if i were in your shoes, i wouldn't think right now about series of procedures extracting from the hairline, when you have so much available donor. Such a move in your case should be considered as a last resort.

22 minutes ago, Berba11 said:

 

Inwas having a consultation with a view to taking hairline back up up at some point & I have consults with Feriduni & Zarev booked in 2025. No rush, but that’s an option I’m considering. 

When did you book Zarev consultation for 2025? And Feriduni has also so long waiting list for consultation right now? 

Harline back up? You want to extract grafts from the hairline? That would take 3 procedures. 

23 hours ago, Berba11 said:

Your left temple is not "botched" in the slightest. Is it as good as the other side? Maybe not but temples generally aren't equal and HT's aren't perfect. You're being dramatic here.

Yes, it is. I am not being dramatic. I know video from dr Sethi "HT aren't perfect" - nice damage control by him 🤣

Look at the pictures : 

Design of the left temple was according to the red line. Blue area shouldn't be bald, but it is. 

Look at right temple, so much better, it looks fuller. 

Look at the left temple again : 

The raw of singles is very straight (like blue line), without any irregularities, looks fake. Another thing is that there is no smooth transition between raw of singles and raw of doubles. It looks like 2 seperate raws and it is bad. 

Look now at the right temple : 

It is fuller, it is no so straight and transition between raw of singles and doubles looks smoother. If they added more raw singles like Dr Sethi educates, it would be even more smooth. 

23 hours ago, Berba11 said:

If I could do my own HT over again, I'd have gone 1.5cm higher up myself with the hairline, so I do know from experience that Eugenix have a tendency to gloss over detailed planning and examination of the scalp, donor etc. My own planning session was rapid; I had a hairline drawn on within 5 seconds of Dr Arika entering the room and there was no inspection of my donor and remaining hair via magnification to identify thinning or hair loss progression. Like you my results have been otherwise very good and have been a positive cosmetic improvement overall.

 

Well, yes i saw your topic some time ago but now i inspected the photos closely. 

You were classified and treated as Norwood 3 patient, but you are not. There are not many photos in your topic from Eugenix photosession, but this one clearly shows the balding pattern : 

Frontal third in the worst condition, however there is strong miniaturisation, diffuse thining across midscalp and crown. So basically it is Norwood 5. 

Frontal third doesn't look like Norwood 3 either. 

So it is clearly visible on this photo that midscalp and crown need a lot of grafts. 

And i see that in your last surgery Eugenix decided to forget about your Norwood 5 baldness and push forward with temple restoration, sounds familiar. 

23 hours ago, Berba11 said:

 

Personally I'd like to see Eugenix improve the level of planning per patient, which means more carefully examining each patient's hair loss progression and donor capacity with proper scalp examinations under magnification in combination with careful measurements of the scalp so that the maths are known in advance. Frankly all clinics should be doing this as standard rather than relying on the eye test or having to throw the kitchen sink at a patients' scalp later down the line.

Well, that is wishful thinking and not gonna happen mate. I think you should consult with other clinic, surgeon that specialize in diffuse thinning cases like you have.

And that's just my honest opinion, you can have different goals and i respect that. 

So if i am not mistaken, now you can become hairrestorationnetwork recommended surgeon even if there is literally 0 reviews posted by patients on forum. Interesting.

Besides remember, It is paid reccomendation, doesn't mean anything. What matters is patient reviews and stories.