Viney

On 4/22/2024 at 9:34 PM, Big Rome said:

what the hell is sublingual minoxidil lol?? 

I (and others) have done a lot of posts on the forum about it already haha. The information is out there if you use the search function here or elsewhere.

1 hour ago, Jamos1982 said:

I’ve been on oral 2.5mg for 10weeks now with no sides do you think sublingual it worth changing too considering it’s more maintenance for me and trying to thicken my hair as much as possible. Also what’s it cost? I’m also in aus 

I wouldn't bother changing in that case. It's a bit annoying to get via a specific compound pharmacy located in Melbourne. If you experience any issues with oral min, or for some reason can't swallow tablets maybe then consider switching.

Cost has recently gone up I think it's just over $1 per pill (daily)... maybe $1.20 each if I recall correctly.

Big fan of sublingual minoxidil. I currently take 2.7mg each day.

It is a bit more expensive than loniten but some say it's slightly superior than oral and for me the results have been good so I won't stop it.

Please keep us updated, especially with pictures if possible. Just want to confirm this will be the only hairloss medication you'll be taking for now?

I got decent growth when I introduced min (sublingual), but I started taking dutasteride at the exact same time, so it's hard for me to measure if the growth came from min, dut or both. Curious to see how you go with it.

1 hour ago, Lewis Horsley said:

Spot on. And how are your results from it? @Viney

The results have been amazing, but I started oral dutasteride at the same time so it's very hard to distinguish whether it's the sublingual min, dut or both which has given me great results.

FWIW I got noticeable improvement on 1mg dut daily and 0.9mg sublingual minox within the first 4 months.

Here's my thread with before and after pics... I'm probably due to post some updated ones which I'll do in the next few weeks:

I had no issues commencing on a lower dose of sublingual (oral) minox and working my way up over a 12 month period to a higher dose. Fingers crossed I can continue with it, smooth sailing so far based on 2 years of use.

Admittedly I probably didn't do a whole lot of research on it, my dermatologist prescribed it and said he uses it a lot with patients and doesn't encounter issues.

I might be a bit lazy but the efficiency of taking it orally is a massive plus for me as applying topical seems like a hassle to do.

2 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

@Viney you were born for these meds! 👊🏻

Would prefer if I was born to not require meds to maintain my hair 😅.

5 hours ago, LeveledUp said:

Why are you thinking about a transplant is that a joke lol

 don’t need one mate, keep that in the tank for the future 

I've put it on hold for now but if you saw my hairline it's still very receded particularly in the corners or when I pull my fringe back. I can mostly hide it by bringing my hair forward or sweeping it across but when it's windy outside it gets really exposed.

I'll do updated pics from more angles early next year and you'll probably be able to see what I mean.

Regardless of the hairline issues above, I'm extremely happy (and grateful) and currently not looking into getting a transplant. Fingers crossed these meds keep working.

Thanks for the tag @Gatsby

Looking at your pics I think under the guidance of a knowledgeable dermatologist you could see some good results from medication alone. Once stabilised you could then think about pulling the trigger on a hair transplant if needed.

Personally I started oral dutasteride and oral/sublingual minoxidil at your age and haven't yet experienced side effects (it's been almost 2 years). I thought I was going to have to shave my head, and now I'm not thinking about shaving my head and I don't even want to get a hair transplant. Hair transplants are the very last resort if you aren't willing to shave it off.

Happy to help with anything if you're curious about the medication, I'm also located in Aus.

Are you sure the brand supplied by your pharmacist hasn't changed?

Just now, Gatsby said:

Thanks @Viney. 🙏

I may have made a subtle change to the hair salon behind you in the pic if you didn't notice...😅

18 hours ago, Gatsby said:

Coming up to one week short of ten months. I’ve just had a hair cut and color. 

Hair looking dense my friend.

1 hour ago, HairEnthusiast101 said:

Any oral minox users deal with a dry throat? Maybe it is unrelated 

Not me.

How long has the dry throat been a thing for you?

Back with another update.

Medication and Timeline (remains the same as my last update):

• 15 January 2022 - 16 March 2022 - 1mg Oral Finasteride daily.
• 17 March 2022 - 24 July 2022 - 0.5mg Oral Dutasteride daily, 0.9mg Sublingual Minoxidil daily
• 25 July 2022 - 7 February 2023 - 0.5mg Oral Dutasteride daily, 1.8mg Sublingual Minoxidil daily
• 8 February 2023 onwards - 0.5mg Oral Dutasteride daily, 2.7mg Sublingual Minoxidil daily

I saw my dermatologist recently at the end of August. We compared the clinic controlled pictures against those taken back in January 2023 and there was an ever so slight improvement through the midscalp, crown and hairline. This was only slightly incremental so I didn't bother paying to get these pictures from the clinic as tell a whole lot new data since the last pictures from January 2023 which I have. My dermatologist said that at this point, 18 months into taking medication any further gains are likely to be very slight and not as dramatic as I had previously experienced in the first 12 months. He asked if I wanted to increase my minoxidil dosage but I said I'd rather maintain the current dose to leave room up my sleeve to increase if needed in future.

We took donor density counts again. I wanted to see if we 'lucked out' last time he counted my donor density and to get a better view of what's actually happening. Again he stressed there is variability in the counts as he can't ever know he's counting from the exact same location as last time. The results from this were a slight decrease on last time but well above the initial base line so I think we're getting a decent view at this point of what my actual donor density is on average. He didn't see any concerns with the decrease on the last count and put this down to the inherent variability. He said my donor was definitely well improved from baseline when he first saw me back in March 2022. He said it was darker and there was more double and triple follicular units rather than the high percentage of singular units I previously had. Data summarised below:

I told him someone should publish a study on donor density and its response to medication and he said "thanks for the idea, I might do that", so fingers crossed he actually follows through as I think this could be an interesting study.

We took pictures of my donor areas under dermoscope and although I have the images I don't think they're worth sharing here as I doubt they're very informative to anyone apart from dermatologists and hair transplant surgeons.

My own pictures outside in the light tell me my hair hasn't really changed since May 2023 which I think is a good thing (at least I'm not losing hair!). I'm still well above my base when I started medication in January 2022 so I'm stoked.

Left pic below is December 2021 right is September 2023:

Left pic below is May 2023 right is September 2023:

Still undecided if I want to pull the trigger on hair transplant and this uncertainty means it's a firm no at this point as I want to be absolutely certain when (or if) I do decide to get one.

Side effects seem to be staying away but I really am starting to think some of my eyebrow hairs are getting abnormally long and thick. Is this just evidence I'm getting old or is it the minox/dut causing it 😅? I am fairly certain there is more vellus hairs than previously around my face but I'll take the trade off and this definitely hasn't translated to increased body hair, only the hair around my upper face.

I'll try do an update with pictures comparing more angles at some point in the next 6 months as at this stage I should be more interested in tracking my hairline and midscalp rather than my crown.

My understanding is that minox is the drug that can potentially make you feel dizzy, rather than fin. Do you take minox OP?

49 minutes ago, Big Rome said:

I don’t have any sides so far, maybe a bit of bloating and gas but that could be the fact I eat like a pig 🤣

Can't say I've had that side effect before 😂

I take 0.5mg Avodart daily.

If you're only going to take it twice a week without taking another 5ar inhibitor like Fin, then wouldn't it make more sense to spread the tablet across the week. So e.g take it Monday and Thursday or Friday?

This podcast explains it (I recall watching this a while ago and it was painful to listen to). The Hairy Pill is basically the common hairloss drugs (oral min and/or fin) customise dosed and branded with the hairy pill. The patent holder of oral minoxidil Rodney Sinclair is affiliated with the Hairy Pill but some other guy who is invested seems to be behind the marketing. It seems like you're paying a premium for probably some more anonymity and easier access to common hairloss drugs your doctor or dermatologist can get you cheaper.

I think oral minoxidil is worth trying if you feel up to it. Personally I'm willing to take it and think it's given me some improvement. You could also try switching from fin to dut if you wanted to really have a decent go at saving your existing hair and trying to get a little bit of improvement.

8 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

Very interesting. 😁

He says it in this podcast too from memory, but I can't give you a time stamp, edit: nevermind I can, around 19:15

52 minutes ago, Heisenberg said:

Yes, that's extremely concerning.

When I met Dr Bisanga, I was told to use oral minoxidil, as the alcohol content in Regaine etc. may be giving me hyperkeratosis etc. (him and his clinical colleague both said "It's the alcohol"). I had absolutely no clue that I was suffering from that until then. I also think that the topical version may not be that effective because of the sulfotransferase enzyme issue. I suppose it is easy for him to say, though, as he's not the one swallowing the pills.

To some degree he is swallowing the pills lol. He said on a recent podcast with Melvin he's been taking oral minoxidil at around 24:30, this isn't the first time either I know he said it on another podcast a while ago.

7 minutes ago, Nikoni said:

Very informative. Do I understand it right, that Dr. Bisanga is considering doing verteporfin trial using AI to evaluate if there is hair growth. 

That's what it sounded like. What I understood was Bisanga was willing to try it and was in the process of developing something that would actually be able to evaluate it accurately.

Thanks for this insightful video Melvin & Dr Bisanga.

I found the discussion around Oral Dut, Oral Min combined with Dut Mesotherapy particularly interesting. It made me think about this result I recently saw online which completely blew my mind. A 32 year old male who according to the dermatologist is taking Oral Dut, Low-dose Oral Minox and Dut Mesotherapy and they've made huge progress. I previously messaged Gatsby about it but I think it's worth highlighting to the rest of the forum to see what's possible with just medication for some good responders, understand some of this medication may be difficult to access.

On 7/2/2023 at 9:07 AM, LeveledUp said:

Keep an eye on the chest pain mate not worth it if it causes you issues, but hopefully 2.5MG does the trick.

I think my plan by late August/September is to go back to topical if 5MG doesn't make any difference.

I think 9/10 months is more than enough time to know if its working or will be effective.

Just annoying as topical whilst inconvenient at times, gave me noticeable results within say 4 months.

Good video below with Dr. Bevin Bhoyrul of Sinclair Dermatology in Australia.
Not watched it in a few weeks, but recall he mentioned he has a patient on 7.25mg or something similar, with no issues.
Me personally? Im maxing out at 5mg.
 

 

I've heard of a patient recently of Sinclair's clinic who said they had worked their way up to taking 15mg Minoxidil Daily over the space of a few years and they feel fine. The patient is an inactive user of this forum and sent this to me in PM when I queried them on something I saw in their post history.

I stumbled on that podcast above a few weeks ago and ended up listening to the whole thing, Dr Bhoyrul is a huge advocate for hairloss drugs, in particular oral/sublingual min and oral fin/dut. I can verify the anecdote he gives when answering the donor density question at 1:29:51 to 1:36:38 in that video since I'm the patient he's talking about.

Looks like this is impacting mostly America and partially Canada?

I'm in Australia and purchased Avodart today and the price had not changed, $79 AUD for 90 tablets.

I'd much rather take branded Avodart than a generic but if the prices I'm hearing for America were true and that occurred here I'd have no choice but to switch to the generic and pray the medication was still as effective.