AJ_HT

@Melvin- Moderator I appreciate you talking to the clinic for this. But while earlier I thought this was an honest mistake on the clinic's part, it's saddening to see this response from Eugenix, because your post seems to be putting the blame on me for having unrealistic expectations, when that was truly not the case. The facts being represented here are incorrect. Let me put my points here. And I didn't want to get into this kind of blame game, but it's not fair to blame me for having realistic expectations. I'm going to try and be as detailed as possible, so please read this through. Firstly, when I had my call with Dr Sethi 3 months ago, the Mumbai team was to coordinate with me when Dr Sethi was in Mumbai, to fix up an appointment. I had told them that I'm not sure if I want to opt for another procedure (which I have constantly been saying here). But I was never supposed to reach out and follow up. Secondly, the clinic told you that the midscalp was not the focus of the surgery, and I'd say that's wrong. It was clearly told to me that my frontal AND midscalp would be covered in 2000-2500 grafts. I repeatedly asked Dr Priyadarshini if my midscalp would be covered during the consult, and she said yes. Melvin, since you spoke of text messages, here are some chats I had with Eugenix before my first surgery, that say what I could expect. This clearly mentions that the frontal and mid-scalp can be covered, but the crown cannot. Now, is it wrong to expect the mid-scalp to be covered when I was explicitly told that the mid-scalp would be covered? I don't think so. Thirdly, I have been saying this constantly, that I was in month 8 when I went for a touch-up, and back then I was satisfied with my density for month 8. I chose to trust that the doctors have done a good job and it will grow by month 12, so I didn't take this up. In fact, even after the call with Dr Sethi and their team 3 months ago, I waited till month 15 to see if there's any improvement, and only after that I posted this thread yesterday. At one end, we say we should have patience, and at the other end, doctors expect us to tell them if they have complaints in the 8th month itself? What should we, as patients actually do? Trust the doctor or not? In fact, it's a good thing that you posted these pictures. You can see yourself in this image that the center portion has lower density than the sides - something that didn't bother me back then because I thought it'll improve, but it didn't improve much. So this isn't a case of progressive hair loss either, it's how the density was (also, I'm on finasteride ever since the surgery and my hairfall has stopped now) Sigh, I'm just saddened by the fact that there is so much that I have to say and show, to defend my stance here 😞 Lastly, you spoke of a consent form. And I didn't want to bring this up in my original post because it would show the clinic in a bad light. But now that you mention it, the form I was asked to sign before the touch-up, wasn't just a consent form. It asked me to sign on a paper which said that I'm happy with the results of my first surgery with Eugenix, and going forward, I will not post my pictures anywhere. Now here's my question - why will any patient, who is unhappy with their first surgery, sign a form that says that they are happy with it? And why will a good clinic explicitly ask the client not to upload their pictures on social media? I still have that document with me, which I didn't sign because I thought it was unreasonable. @Melvin- Moderator let me ask you or any other member here - while getting a touch-up, would you sign a document that mentions you are happy with the first procedure, when in fact you are not? I'm glad I didn't sign it, else I would not be able to post this today. Blaming the patient's expectations and showing him in a bad light, when the expectations were actually what was committed to him, is really unfair. It just makes me feel hopeless about how the hair restoration industry works. Sure, this may be a one-off case, but this isn't the kind of explanation I would expect from the clinic even for a one-off case. And now, there's even more reason for me to not go there for a free touch-up if they offer one. It's just disheartening!

From the first procedure, today is month 15. From the second, it's month 7. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do. Don't have the mental strength to opt for another procedure now. I'll probably try and see if minoxidil helps improve the density, but not sure if it will, considering these are mostly transplanted hair, which are anyway thick. I'll just wait and see if I can muster the strength to opt for another surgery. Doesn't seem likely at least in the near future though.

Like I said, it was only 8 months since the procedure then, and while my mid-scalp was literally empty, my frontal area was improving, and results seemed okay for month 8. So instead of getting paranoid, I trusted that it'll look good by month 12 and wasn't anxious about it. So I got the mid-scalp done because it was quite bad, even for month 8. Only later, I realized that even the frontal area isn't what I had expected.

Whatever went wrong, I'm just tired of constantly putting efforts in trying to improve my hair, and failing every single time! It's not even about the flight costs, as I'm from India. But so much time, effort and money being spent for all these procedures and medications and still being dissatisfied, makes one question the assurance of another procedure, and feel whether all of it is even worth it 😞

I did start Fin 1 month before surgery, continuing it till date, and seem to be responding well. I don't see any hairloss now. So that doesn't seem to be an issue. My hairline also is pretty high, as you can see in the pictures. Should be about 7 cms from the glabella, give or take.

They said they're open to it and will get back to me. But haven't heard from them after that. In any case, I didn't follow up because I'm not ready for another surgery (it'll be the fourth one in 5 years)

@JoeMan Yes the second procedure was for the mid-scalp. It was just 8 months since the first procedure, so the results in the frontal area were still improving. And back then, I didn't think the eventual density of the frontal region would be poor as well.

Honestly, that's what I say to pacify myself - that it's much better than earlier, that at least it's not pluggy, that the density is good at least in dim lights. But that's not what I had expected from this session. I went to the best because I wanted the best results, not because I wanted results that are just an improvement from before. I do understand that scarring happens, and that could be a reason for poor density, but there are 2 problems with that reasoning: 1. My sides are done okay. The center is a problem. If there was scarring, it should have been uniform, or at least similar. But there's a HUGE difference between the density on the sides and center 2. Neither before the surgery, nor during the surgery nor after the surgery when they did a touch-up, was I told that this happened because of scarring. So I highly doubt that could be the reason I may sound negative when I write my comments here, but for someone who's undergone these many procedures, it's just very difficult to stay positive 😐

@civic I don't think this will require 2.5K grafts. Looks more like 500-800 grafts to give a good density, but I'm no doc here. Besides, the thought of opting for another procedure itself is just upsetting.

The touch-up just happened 7 months ago, so the 450 grafts are yet to completely grow. But those grafts were anyway in the mid-scalp. The density issue is with the hairline, which was worked on 15 months ago. Also, like I said, I have been on finasteride since 15 months, and there's no more hair loss now. So I don't think there's an issue with the earlier hairs shedding. They may have only gotten better, if anything with finasteride.

Thanks @Melvin- Moderator I absolutely agree it's an improvement from where I was. The problem is, this result took two surgeries, and it is still unsatisfactory. I'd have expected a good clinic like Eugenix to get it right the first, or at least the second time. So I'm just very unsure about getting a second touch-up (which will be a third surgery with Eugenix) and fourth transplant for me now 😞 Any other options you think will help? Do you think Minoxidil can improve the density, given that most of the hair are transplanted hair?

Yes, I did speak to Dr Sethi 3 months ago, and their team was supposed to get back to me. But that hasn't happened yet. The problem is, even if they're willing to offer another procedure, I'm not mentally ready for one. After 3 surgeries and me still being unhappy, it's very difficult to trust someone again 😞 You mentioned some cases where Eugenix made good for the client if they were unhappy. Any members here on this forum that you can tag? I'd like to have a conversation with those patients and understand what they did, if that's possible.

@digi23 my apologies, I have not been very active on the forum, and I just saw your comment. My surgery was done at Eugenix. I have just posted a detailed review of the same on the forum here:

I know that Eugenix is recommended by a lot of people here, and a few active members of this forum have also gone there for their transplant. I also know that some celebrities and high profile individuals have got their transplant from there. However, I’m a common man who went there for a corrective surgery, and have not been happy with my results. I'm posting posting a genuinely honest review, with multiple pictures under different conditions. My first transplant was from a shady clinic in 2017 which I had got without doing much research, and obviously, the results were poor. To get a correction, I did extensive research and went to Eugenix after meeting at least 8-9 different doctors in India in 2020. My planning and hairline slits were done by Dr. Arika and surgery done by Dr. Priyadarshini in Mumbai. When I went for the consult, I was told that everything except my crown would be covered in 2500 grafts. Here is a “before” picture of mine. Now, I don’t know whether the grafts were miscalculated or what happened, but on the day of surgery, my mid-scalp was not covered well. Below is a picture of the transplanted grafts in the frontal and midscalp region. I asked the doctors why that happened, and I was told that finasteride would improve the density. But I’ve been on finasteride since then, and it didn’t help thicken my density. It just maintained my hair, and my mid-scalp was as bad as earlier. After 8 months, I went back to the clinic and met Dr Pradeep who did a complimentary second session in my mid-scalp for about 450 grafts. Now, I was hoping that I would get decent coverage overall after 12-14 months of the first session, at least in the frontal region. However, here are my pictures after 15 months under different kinds of lights. I have to say, I am far from happy with these results. The hair looks good when seen in dim light or lights from the front. But if I venture out into the sun or stand under ANY kind of light (not even harsh light), the result is quite poor, especially in the center portion of my hairline, above the glabella. The sides seem to have been done well, but the center of the hairline has quite poor density. I have some other issues with the hairline as well, but I don’t want to get into those, since I can live with them. The biggest concern is the density. Now, I know that a hair transplant is an illusion of density and I can’t expect magical results. But I don’t think a transplant that shows your scalp under normal lights or sunlight can be considered to be “good”. (Also, I have been on finasteride ever since my transplant, and there is no native hair shedding after the surgery. Nor was my donor density a problem, because all the doctors I had met, told me that extracting 2500-3000 grafts was not a problem, considering I have dense, thick hair at the back of my head. Even for the surgery, out of these 3,000 grafts, only about 300 were taken from my beard, and transplanted in my midscalp. The frontal was all covered by scalp hair) Lastly, these pictures are of my hair after a shower and shampoo, combed in my natural hairstyle under normal lights at home and sunlight. I have not clicked pictures of wet hair or shown it under harsh lights or shown angles that will deliberately highlight empty areas. So here I am, after 3 surgeries (2 of which have been with apparently one of the good clinics) still unhappy with my hair ☹️ What went wrong with my transplant? I don’t know. The doctors had 3 surgeries and multiple consultations that day, so probably they were in a hurry to complete mine? Probably they miscalculated the grafts and put lesser grafts in the centre than the sides? Or maybe some of the grafts didn’t survive. Like I said, I don’t know. But whatever happened, it hasn’t worked well for me. Now I’m not in a state of mind to go for another procedure anywhere, but if I ever decide to get one again, it will be at a clinic where the primary doctor is hands-on with every patient and a clinic that takes only limited patients, so that each patient is important for them. I’m putting up this post so that people know what to expect. I did everything right, and still got below-average results. But what I would recommend (things that I didn’t consider) is: See how much interest the doctor shows in your case, and whether you’re actually being taken care of, or you’re just another client for the clinic Most importantly, during consultation and before the surgery, get the areas marked on your head where the transplant would be done, and the number of grafts that would be implanted in those areas. I didn’t get this done in the first surgery, and that’s where all the confusion started A premium clinic doesn't always imply a happy patient This whole experience with 3 below-average transplant results has taken a toll on my mental health. It’s just a really bad experience for me overall, in spite of going to an apparently “good” clinic twice, and I’m putting this post up on forums like this, so that others can get more aware. Hopefully soon, I’ll figure out how to deal with it. Thanks for hearing me out. I would love to hear from the community here what I can do to help the density (another transplant not being an option at the moment). If there are any suggestions, please let me know!

I've had 3 HTs, and I've never had any growth until 4 months. It's always taken 5-6 months to see any visibly growth for me. The growth is very relative. Some people see it at 4 months, some at 6 and some even later. In fact, I'd say you're lucky to see so much growth so early on! Relax, wait for a year and see how it goes. It doesn't seem like your results will be bad at all. It's just the beginning, you have 8 more months for it to improve! By the way, I'm just curious why you had to do 4,000 grafts for your grade of baldness. You seem like a NW 2/3.

Your growth does seem pretty low for 6 months. But I have seen a case very similar to yours, where there was scanty growth for 6 months, and then the growth rate was amazing. So I'd say wait for a full year to see how it looks. Having said that, if I were you, I'd be worried too. Not sure if I would expect great density even after a year, although it wouldn't be as bad as you think it will. Nobody can say at this point of time (including the doctor) when you'll achieve full results. So just wait it out I've had a failed transplant, and not too happy with my corrective surgery either, so I can feel what you're going through. Just have patience, it's not the end of the world! All the best to you mate. Keep us updated with the progress!

@digi23 I tried clicking some more pictures, which seem slightly better quality (though not the best). Please see if this helps! So the density at the sides is just fine, but feels like I wasn't given good density in the center. @Balding Bad I've also attached pictures of my head before the transplant (after the first failed surgery). Honestly, I'm not sure if I was NW 5 before the surgery (although the doc said I was). I just feel like they could have done a better job with the density, especially since mine was a case of corrective surgery, where poor density after the first transplant was my major concern. What do you guys think? I'm kind of losing sleep over this because even after spending so much time and effort twice, it doesn't look as I had expected it to. Just want to understand whether I'm being reasonable or my expectations are/were too high ☹️

I'm 33. So I do go for seminars and events with bright lighting, and also have to give speeches on and off, although not that frequently. Now I'm dreading undergoing another surgery, but I don't know what else to do. I'm taking finasteride 1 mg daily. Do you think PRP or any other treatment would help?

@Egy Here are the pictures of the procedure:

Sure. I'll try and click some better, clearer pictures and upload them. It's actually been mentally draining for me to get multiple transplant procedures, and still not getting the results needed. This was a repair transplant, and I'd expect the doctor to tell me that I would need multiple procedures for good density. Nothing of that sort was told to me while getting the procedure done, and now getting another session just seems painful 😢

Sure. I will upload some pictures immediately post-op in a while.

Considering that I'm almost at the 12-month mark, how much time would you suggest waiting? Also, the doctor had told me that the density would be pretty good (so this is definitely not what I had expected). And they've done it well on both the sides - the density is actually pretty good. But the centre seems like it's almost empty when seen under any kind of light (or even sunlight). I fear that it's a job not done well, and hence wanted some opinions on it. I'll share some before pictures in a while so that you could evaluate better. Thanks a lot for your input! :)

I read this entire thread. It took me about 2 hours, but I really hoped that at the end of it, you would have got a solution. And it was a delight to see that you did! Your SMP looks fantastic! I know you're playing with the idea of another FUE/BHT etc, but I really don't think you need any HT sessions now. I've had 2 HT sessions with not so great results myself, and I'm considering SMP too going forward, looking at your and @Gatsby's results. Congratulations to you man! Really happy for you!

Yes I understand that. However, does it show THIS MUCH? I mean, this isn't even harsh light. It's just sunlight. And the density seems fine at the sides. It's the center that is a problem.

I had a failed hair transplant a few years ago. After which, last year, I underwent another hair transplant surgery with an apparently very good clinic. However, now I am at 11.5 months post the surgery and I can see that while my hair looks good in normal lights and at home, the results look really bad in bright lights, and sometimes bad even in normal sunlight. The doctor said that the results are fine, but I'm not convinced. I'm sharing some pictures of my hair in different kinds of lights, and would really appreciate if some members and mods could help me understand whether this result is okay or should I take it up with my doctor. I know I can never get my original density back, and I'm not even expecting that. But is this the kind of density that a good hair transplant gives? I had got about 2600 grafts done only in the frontal area and I was NW 5 before the transplant.