whyevenbother

I'd very much prefer to leave the hairline alone and just do the SMP but I'm concerned it's not going to match. The hair on the sides of my head is much lighter. Maybe a good doctor can make it blend together idk, if I do go the SMP route I'll definitely take their advice on that. The thread title was also a reference to something the doc said, that it wouldn't be ethical for him to do more work on me anytime soon, that I needed to wait. I'm not sure if that's true or he's just being overly conservative. And people definitely do give my hair weird looks lol idk what to say there. I'm not insane.

Gasthoerer, can you elaborate on what's so weird about my arguments? I don't feel like I've said anything that unreasonable.

See attached pic for the reason I'm afraid I'll need to get some hairline removed if I go SMP. As it is the hairline is noticeably darker than the rest of my head... and I had another ~300-500 grafts placed on the hairline which haven't grown in yet. Related, can anyone tell me just how short I need to keep my hair with SMP? As short as in the pic below, or could I let it go as long as the pics I posted above? I think not right? Somewhere in between? Shaving this close to the skin was a nightmare, I cut the ever living shit out of myself. Hopefully I will get better at that with practice but my skin is super sensitive and my scalp has a lot of lumps on it that are hard to shave.

Thanks Melvin, I'm afraid you may be right. Wish I had realized sooner. I'll respond to a couple of your points in case others want to weigh in. I know buzzed hair is not a hair style that works for HT generally. The reason I buzzed it initially was to see how bad the scarring was, prior to a visit with an SMP doc. I was actually surprised that it looks marginally better than my particular HT did grown out. Definitely still not ideal or something I'm very comfortable with though. Going into it I definitely was hoping for natural appearing density, you're right. Not with *all* hair styles though, I'd be happy with just one that I liked. I feel like I could have maybe been happy with an age-appropriate receding look (is that even possible with HT?) but I fucked up and let the doctor do basically the opposite of that on the 2nd HT, focusing on the hairline instead of the area behind. I'm leaning towards this being my best option and wanted to get advice, which was my primary reason for re-opening this thread. Maybe I ranted a little too much, sorry guys. I feel like for the SMP to work I'm going to have to get transplanted hair removed, at the hair line at least. The complication here is that the SMP doc I saw said laser removal is not a good option for the hair line as it's too imprecise, I need to do electrolysis, but I'm having trouble finding any hair clinics that do electrolysis (the SMP doc doesnt), it seems like it's mostly aestheticians?

That is really not my intention. I haven't mentioned the name because I don't want to get a bunch of people in here angry at me for impugning their favorite doctor, or have the mods call him in to defend himself or something. I just wanted to point out that the work I had done was at a top clinic because I feel like that's pretty relevant. Well I don't think it's absurd to repeat what the doctor told me but I think we can all agree the appearance is the important thing. I'm sorry if I'm being melodramatic. I realize that a lot of people have WAY worse results and I'm thankful that I'm not one of them. But it's still nowhere near something I can be comfortable with. I do! What more info can I provide? I do accept that. What do you mean about hair length, what am I wrong about there? I mean... it's not in my head that I get weird looks from people since I got the HTs. I was obviously balding before but people don't look twice at that.

I mean I'm certainly not considering going back to him for any further work, but I don't think it's unreasonable for me to be concerned that he felt a such a conservative approach was necessary. Well.. I've been lurking hair forums a lot since my HTs and it seems like at least some people have to wear hats or concealer when they go out in the sun, under fluorescent lighting, etc. to avoid having their scalp show through? Am I off base there? I certainly wasn't expecting to need to do that after getting transplants and I'm never going to be satisfied if that's the case for me. That's what my doc said, I'm pretty sure he knew what he was talking about. The lack of density is more noticeable when its grown long and in person than in the photos I posted. And the number doesn't really matter anyway. If I liked the way it looked I wouldn't care if it was technically 5% coverage. I only mentioned it because I'm so disappointed with the density, and that was when I first realized it might be an issue. That was also referring to just the 1st HT, not including the 2nd. Not trying to make an argument about this as again that number is not the issue, just want to explain where I'm coming from as everyone seems bothered that I wrote that. I'm trying to. I had two HT consultations last month (one with Baubac) and one scheduled with Diep later this month. I'm posting here to share my story for others and to get feedback from the community. It was not my intention to "whine", sorry if I offended you. Because in my opinion the first HT has turned out poorly, despite being with done at a reputable clinic. I'm afraid more work is just going to make it worse and make going bald+smp less of a viable option. As of today I'm worse off now than I was before I had any work done.

I definitely wasn't planning on shaving it. But I do agree I never should have gotten the HT. I imagined it looking a lot better than it ended up. Well what's freaking me out is the first doc is by far the most experienced + popular of everyone I saw. If I said his name you'd all get where I'm coming from on this. He doesn't do this conservative approach with everyone, but apparently felt it was necessary with me. I'm afraid these other clinics are just looking to take my money and don't care about how it's going to look in a couple years. And it's not like another HT can fix the direction of the grafts I already got... Also I'm concerned that I have so many damn grafts in the hairline I have now. How could moving it even work? They put just as many below it, then its super thin right behind? Then there's the waiting. I'd need to wait another 8 months for the last HT (which was mainly on the hair line) to grow in, then another 12 months to see the growth from that. That's exactly what I don't want to do. I'd rather buzz it all down and be bald + ugly than look like a guy trying to cover up his hair loss. It would be one thing if I were older but I'm too young for that to be an acceptable look. Well those were taken just a few days post-op from the last HT Thanks bro I appreciate it. This is has been a really shitty experience, balding is bad enough but I feel like I've made a series of poor decisions that have just made it a lot worse.

Well I just don't agree. I get a lot of stares when I do go out in public.This exact length it's at it is the best look I've managed to come up with, but it's still not something I'm comfortable with. If I let it grow out any longer at all it looks a lot worse until it's several inches long. I realize implanted hair doesn't look good short, just trying to make the best of a bad situation here. I am, but the 2nd HT was only 700 grafts and was only in a small area. Before I cut it a few days ago my hair looked exactly like it did before the 2nd HT. Sorry I wasn't clear on this part, the color is only noticeable when it's buzzed short like this. Grown out it's not an issue. And obviously I can't color it and keep it at this length. I brought up the color because it's a concern if I want to do smp and keep it short. The lack of density is *much* more noticeable when it's longer. I did let the first one grow out, I didn't cut it at all from when I got the 2nd HT until a few days ago (4 months). My hair grows pretty fast, it was longer than I would ever want to wear it at that point and I was not happy at all with how it looks. Even if the density wasn't an issue the direction the hairs grow in is just a fucking mess. He got about 30% of it right, the rest of it is all over the place. I should have taken pics but I didn't.

I definitely will have a lot or questions for an SMP provider once I find one, before doing the procedure. The last guy I saw was discouraging me from doing it and heealso claimed he had never heard of temporary SMP? I'm pretty sure I've read about that on this forum and elsewhere? So I don't think I should go with him.

Regarding donor I only asked one of the 2 doctors I saw recently and he said I have around 6000 grafts left. Here are two pictures I just took. I don't think I'm going to grow it out again so this is the best I can offer.

Posting a follow up. So my 2nd HT hasn't grown in yet but it doesn't even matter if it comes in "perfectly" because the first one is such a mess. It's now been 11 months since the first one and I hate it so fucking much. The implanted hairs stick straight up, the complete opposite of my natural hair, but somehow almost none of it makes a uniform, natural pattern, its all over the place. Even worse its ridiculously thin and I'm still losing hair behind it. It is so incredibly obvious that it was transplanted, I have the hair of a 60 year-old Republican politician. This was BY FAR the biggest mistake of my life. I would give anything just to be able to go back to being a bald guy - and I look *really* fucking bad bald, way worse than the vast majority of people I've seen. I recently visited two well respected clinics to get second opinions and they both wanted to LOWER my hairline... which definitely *is* both too high and SUPER straight and unnatural looking... but I don't get how my first doctor doesn't even want to fill in what I have now because I won't have enough grafts in the future, but these guys want to freaking lower it? Did not inspire confidence. I'm absolutely dreading the 2nd HT growing in, I have no fucking clue why I let him put more grafts in the hairline when its nearly fucking bald behind it. Literally the opposite of what I needed and the second biggest mistake of my life. I cant grow it out because the directionality of it is such a mess, and if I keep it short not only can you see the dark hair line with the huge bald area behind it, but he cherry-picked all the darkest hairs from my head and put them on top so the transplant hair is way darker than my natural hair on the sides while still being sparse as fuck. And that's about to get a lost worse when these new grafts come in. I dont have any new pictures to attach because I shaved bald the other day to see how bad the scarring was. I don't even know what to do now. I've nearly given up hope on ever being comfortable leaving the house again. Even if I had the grafts to fill it in and get a natural density its not like they can fix this ridiculous "hair style" he gave me. I wish I could just laser remove every hair on my head at this point., but the scarring is really noticeable when shaved bald. I thought maybe SMP on the donor and just laser remove / electrolysis all the implanted hairs and just be bald on the top. I'm afraid I'm going to hate what that looks like too but what other options do I even have? Can anyone recommend a clinic that does SMP + laser removal/electrolysis to repair bad transplants? Why did I do this to myself

Yeah I'm sure, I discussed it with him again in my more recent visit. Why would you say it doesn't make sense? It's low certainly but I get the impression he's just being conservative. I did that for 2 years but I'm not on it anymore, I dropped the DUT and am just doing FIN 1.25mg/daily now.

Thanks, I'm really trying to stay positive. I know I should wait to book the 3rd procedure but this extended social isolation is driving me nuts. I don't know if I can risk waiting another 7-24 months (when the 1st procedure will be grown out vs. what the doctor recommended) PLUS another 14 months for that to grow in. I actually work from home so I have it easier than most in that sense, I don't know how people do this. I sure don't want anyone I know seeing what I've been looking like the past few years. I attached some pics of the donor, I should probably ask the doc on # of grafts left, I'm not sure. He's taken less out of the left side than the back and right, so far. I was NW2A before the 1st transplant but my natural hair pattern (ignoring grafts) is definitely at least NW3A now, maybe even NW4A.

I'm not gonna say his name but you all know him and he's one of the best, unquestionably. That's why him trying to push this overly conservative approach and telling me to just accept having low density in the front is so terrifying. He has great pictures of dense-packing on his website and posted in these forums. If I can't get my hair to a point where I feel comfortable participating in society then I'm going to be an empty shell of a person at 40 anyway. Hope you're right. So let me put it this way then, I would be a NW3A without the surgeries. I know it varies but is 2350 grafts conceivably enough to take NW3A to a dense appearance? I'm worried about density because the implanted hairs look so unnatural on my head in any areas that aren't dense. Like really, obviously unnatural. I don't know if it's my hair characteristics or it just hasn't been long enough yet. I'm 7.5 months from the first procedure now.

The lack of density is much less noticeable when it's buzzed this short, I think that's a major factor in the difference between pics. The 17% number is from the doc, it's how much hair I have in the transplanted zone. Compared to 100% being what I had there before balding. That's overall, he specified that it's more in some areas, less in others. It's not just the number. I did try to explain my concerns to him, specifically that it looks so thin and just bad under natural or bright lighting. His response was that I would just have to live with it, that maybe we could consider adding density in a couple years, depending. Is that what everyone else with HT's does? Just hang out in dark rooms only?

@Spanker Sorry I've rambled quite a bit. My specific problem and the reason I'm worried about waiting is that per my surgeon I've only got 17% density in the front area, whereas 50% would be required to create a normal, dense appearance. From reading these forums and looking at pictures online, combined with those figures I have the impression that dense-packing is required to create what I would consider an acceptable result. Not necessarily in the hairline but the whole front area overall, up to my mid scalp. Certainly what I had before shaving the other day had a long way to go density wise. I realize I will still see improvement in the coming months but just based purely on the numbers I quoted above... that's a huge difference, it's not like it's close. Bottom line, even assuming the hairline sides I just had transplanted come in perfectly, I'm afraid the front point / middle hairline will still be transparent. Again based on those numbers. It's very hard for me to imagine a natural-looking recession pattern that's transparent in the front, regardless how the rest turns out.

Thanks everyone for your comments and Legend in particular, I really appreciate your perspective. I've been on fin for 4 years though. And for two of those years I was taking 5mg fin/day + dut 1x/week. My fear is that it's not going to stabilize until I'm completely bald. If the fin is helping it certainly hasn't been a miracle cure for me. And my father's hair has been practically non-existent since he was in his 40s... there's no amount of surgery that could rearrange that to look even halfway decent. I'm afraid a conservative approach is never going to result in a head of hair I am comfortable going in public with. One maybe bright spot for me: the FUE scarring is not very bad at all. My super pale skin probably helps a bit here lol. Maybe I go for high density now, and when I inevitably run out of donor I just give up and start shaving bald. I look fucking terrible bald but if it's going to look like trash when I'm old no matter what...

Yeah this is pretty much exactly what my surgeon said to talk me out of doing more grafts in the first procedure. But I'm much more concerned about being able to enjoy at least a few years out of my thirties, than having nice hair when im 40-45+...

The images from my first post were taken about 48 hours after my most recent surgery. Here are some more, taken just now (5 days after surgery): Now that my hair is buzzed evenly, the vertex doesn't look nearly as bad as I was thinking when I posted the other day. So that's a pretty big relief. Although it also makes me even more determined to be aggressive about getting satisfactory density. Unfortunately I didn't take any pics when it was grown out from the first procedure. I did post here a ~3 months after it http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/188486-follow-up-procedure-after-fue.html notice in these pictures how much more concentrated the grafts are on the left. When grown out, the low density on the right side was much more noticeable although it's not obvious in the pics from today. The left was actually fairly decent, except you could still see my pale scalp through the hairline. With these new hairline grafts I'm hopeful that part might be okay. He also used some nape hair grafts this time whereas the first he did not (why not?? no idea). Maybe I could be happy with low density if it had a natural, age-appropriate thinning appearance. I'm not trying to re-create my teenage hairline, just an average look for a guy my age. One thing that really surprised me, this last procedure was originally booked specifically for the temples. I was not expecting to be able to do any more hairline grafts in this procedure since it had only been 7 months since the last one. But when I related my overall density concerns during pre-op, he said okay we'll add some hairline. I was shocked and asked him, I thought we had to wait? He basically just shrugged and grumbled that it depends. Obviously I went ahead with the grafts but this is another concern weighing on me... I don't exactly have donor to spare...

Thanks Legend, I will do a consultation with Dr Diep and a couple others. > but if I were u wait until both ur transplants grow out completely I was thinking maybe I could just wait until the 1st one is totally grown out? Since the recent one is just the temples, and I don't necessarily need that area to be very dense. I know waiting for both would be ideal, but I've waited so long already. > n hopefully u taking meds to stabilize ur native hair I am, I've been on fin for about 4 years now, at 1.25mg/day currently. I was taking a higher dose + dut previously the but sides became too much. Also on oral minox and whatever that shampoo is called. > That should of been done in the first place .. I don’t know why they didn’t do ur temple areas the first transplant . That's what I thought! I specifically requested the temples, in fact he listed them as an option on the quote he gave me after the initial consult. But when I showed up for the actual surgery date a year later he talked me out of it. Major regrets I'm afraid my loss is proceeding so fast that it made him want to be extra conservative. > 1750 grafts is not a megasession; 2500-3000 fue is a megasession nowadays Yeah to be fair he didn't actually use the word megasession, he just talked about smaller sessions being safer, better. "We can always do more later". Sigh.

Are there any top doctors who are known to be comfortable with an aggressive approach? I don't think it's a skill or confidence issue with this guy, he's world-renowned.

I don't want to say his name because I know he's just trying to do what he feels would be best for me and the last thing I want to do is slander him. To some extent maybe this is the result of me communicating with him poorly, I'm just such a fucking mess about this, I can't even keep my thoughts straight during a consultation. I will say he's definitely one of the most recommended surgeons though. > especially if your hair loss has stabilized. I'm afraid it hasn't though. Other than him saying he didn't see any active shedding, everything points to it not being stabilized at all. I've certainly lost a lot this past year. If he did think it was stabilized, wouldn't he be more willing to do a 3rd procedure sooner? Thanks for the response.

I'm 34 years old and I've had two FUE procedures so far. 1700 grafts 7 months ago in the front + mid scalp and another 600 a few days ago in the temples + reinforcing the left and right edges of the frontal hairline (no more on front point). Yes I know I can hopefully still expect improvements from the 1st procedure, but the doctor was very clear that he only transplanted enough for ~17% coverage, whereas 50% would be needed to actually appear dense.... although he didn't tell me that on my initial consultation, only after I had already paid in full and traveled across the country, minutes before the surgery. Based on those numbers I wanted to do more in the first session, but he cautioned against it as mega-sessions are risky. Okay, so I tried to tell myself it would be okay somehow and just did what he suggested. I was NW 2A at this point. Over the next few months the temples just melted away. Easily an NW III right now, if you look past the transplanted hair. Which is all too easy to do. So I booked the 2nd session as soon as he had a surgery slot available, which he was agreeable to. It takes forever to get an appointment with this guy so I wanted to plan the 3rd procedure ASAP to actually get age-appropriate density in the frontal area, as opposed to what I have now where the entire front of my entire scalp is visible under anything brighter than dim lighting. I really want to believe that it's actually going to be acceptable after the 1st procedure has fully matured, the doctor was emphatic that for being only 7 months from the initial procedure I've made really good progress. But how could it be if I've only got 17% coverage in the front region? Where I live it is sunny every. single. day. I might as well have done nothing at all, either way I look like a bald guy desperately trying to cover it. I avoid friends and people my age - women especially - like the plague. It's fucking killing me. I've had to completely abandon social hobbies and pursuits that were my entire life. I would give anything just for a few more years of relative normalcy. But when I tried to schedule a 3rd procedure to address the frontal density, the doctor said it would be better to wait for him to examine me in person, especially since the date of the 2nd procedure wasn't too far off at that point. Okay, so fast forward to the 2nd surgery date, he examines me and says he found no evidence of active shedding, which supposedly is a very good sign? And yet he still says I need to wait another 2 years to even consider another procedure! After which obviously I would have yet another "ugly duckling" period to suffer through. There's just no way I can wait another **3 years** just for a *chance* at looking presentable. Jesus christ I'll practically be 40! I've already lost the last 5 years of my life to my garbage genetics. I know that I'm going to look like donald trump or worse when I'm older, I accepted that many years ago when I first went on the big 3 with no noticeable results. I even did 5mg fin daily + dut 1x/week for awhile until the sides got unbearable. My dad has been bald as fucking shit for as long as I can remember. There's obviously no way this ends well for me, barring some miracle scientific advancements. So the question I keep coming back to is, why the hell am I trying to conserve donor for years down the road? The only reason I pursued surgery was to hopefully eek out a few good years before everything goes completely to shit. I'd rather have that than a lifetime of only looking passable in dim lighting. How the hell does anyone cope with that at a young age?? Maybe I could live with that at 45-50, but not in my early thirties. I'm afraid I'm going to end up having to just shave bald regardless, but now with a bunch of fun scarring. You see all these pictures of people with successful transplants online, I wish someone could have told me that in the absolute best case it was going to take me years of surgery and looking like absolute trash to maybe get to that point. Which doesn't seem likely to ever happen, now. Sorry for the rant. I guess my question to the board is: has anyone here been in a similar situation? Are there any doctors who are both known to do good work and who will actually do dense packing if that's what I want, regardless of the fact that I'm clearly destined to run out of donor and look like absolute trash before long? I've tried discussing all this with my doctor but after the years of what have essentially been solitary confinement my verbal communication skills are not very good. I feel like I'm just frustrating him by not accepting what he appears to consider a foregone conclusion: that a low-density, obviously balding appearance is just the best I'm ever going to get. To make matters worse, when they buzzed my head for surgery the other day, I think I'm now noticing thinning at the vertex for the first time I've attached pictures taken today. The donor is shaved all the way down but the other, non-recipient areas (the top basically) are just buzzed Before I noticed the vertex thinning I was thinking that maybe at this point keeping it at the buzzed length is my best hope. But obviously if I lose any more vertex that won't look good either... and it seems like the doctor put a lot more grafts around the edges of the thinning area, rather than spreading them evenly, despite my telling him I prefer to wear it short (the whole reason I went FUE...) Either way it's still far from an ideal solution. When buzzed short the transplanted hairs in the front look a bit "off" on close inspection, as they don't quite have a uniform direction. Whereas if I grow it longer the transplanted hair pattern mostly evens itself out, but then the low density is more obvious and unnatural looking in that sense. Obviously you can see my scalp when it's buzzed too but it can almost, sort of pass as age-appropriate thinning.... Thanks for reading guys.