twf123

27 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

In the future please create your own thread. 

Yep. I just the same experience that was indicated on this thread so I'd thought I'd share. 

12 minutes ago, Shifty said:

Today is 3 weeks taking fin, I have high hopes as I believe I already see some small hairs forming. And trust me I'm looking every second I have the opportunity too lol.  I have become fairly anti-social. I wont leave the house except with a hat on. I know its stupid to think anyone will care but it just cant bring myself to not care, and I have always been a social person.

 

At the moment I am using special shampoos and conditioner. Using the laser cap I Own. taking Finesteride, using topical Rogaine foam. I always take vitamins always have, including Biotin. And I should be getting a derma roller tomorrow in the mail. So hopefully the full on assault will turn things around.

Sounds like you have a plan, but it may be a bit overkill. All you really need is finasteride and Rogain. Anything after that won't be that much of a help, so don't kill yourself spending all this money thinking you will 'maximize' your prevention. 

3 minutes ago, Spanker said:

He hijacked the thread. That is not him at the beginning of this thread. 

Yes, sorry for the confusion. 

15 minutes ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

This can be easily fixed, but I will say this, money comes and goes, but your donor supply is finite. Therefore, if your not confident in your surgeon it is best to search for another surgeon who will make things right. I would rather live 10-15K dollars poorer than live with a bad hair transplant result that everyone sees on a daily basis.

I am thinking I agree. I wonder how much it would be to fix this

On 9/29/2018 at 10:20 PM, Speran28 said:

Almost back to normal. 

It was about 1800 grafts. I had him prioritize making the scar as small as possible over getting a ton of grafts.

I seem to be in the exact same situation as you are. I also had a procedure with Mcgrath and I am at my 11 month mark, and they also offered me a free surgery to fix this. This sounded like a great option to me, as I am not someone who can just throw down some cash to go to a new doctor easily(I can.... but wouldn't a free one be better than having to spend another 10k to another doctor in order to fix it?). I am really stressing out here now. Should I take the free surgery to repair it, and express my concerns to Mcgrath that it was not dense enough, and have him try to pack them denser? Or should I also go with the route of getting a refund? I currently have the free surgery scheduled for early 2019, but now after reading your entire thread I am not sure what I should do. Try asking for a refund? Continue with the second free surgery? Or just dish out 10k to another reputable doctor to fix it? I have a great donor area. Please anything you can provide. 

43 minutes ago, LaserCap said:

Let' take it a step at a time.  You are young.  If you've shown the propensity to lose, you will continue losing.  That's a fact. You have a great deal of native hair but it seems you have diffused thinning throughout.  You are thinning into an advanced pattern.  I would imagine your goal is to have as much hair as you can.  It is imperative that you save all you can.  Medical therapy should be your first consideration.  Propecia, Rogaine, laser and PRP are the only modalities approved/released by the FDA for retention and enhancement of the native hair.  Why not give these a chance and see what they do.  

Most believe it takes a full year to see what the meds are going to do.  So you could wait a year and then do a transplant procedure.  But that takes a whole other year to see the full result.  This is the reason why many patients, provided they are educated correctly, will do a combination of medical therapy and transplants.  Now, where to put the transplants?

When you are interacting with others, that do you see?  The front.  

Do some homework.  Look at the way people lose hair.  Particularly when they have an advanced pattern.  Notice how most keep hair in the front.and they thin the crown.  Mimic mother nature for the most natural result.  

Lastly, be judicious with your grafts.  The donor is finite.  2500 grafts is not a lot of grafts but can have a very positive impact if concentrated in an area.  Placing them diffusely throughout the entire pattern is not only a mistake, it is irresponsible.

Yes. You really should be on some preventative method for at least 6 months to a year before deciding to get a transplant. See the effects that it has first. May be even good enough! You'll also see if it evens helps. If not, youll have to look into other options for prevention. Prevention is KEY even for heavily transplanted patients 

28 minutes ago, Pete-from-Farjo said:

One of the cruelest things about hair loss is that it can turn even the most sociable people into hermits. I've been there myself.  But 2500 grafts if used sensibly can make a big positive difference for you. And if you respond well to finasteride you could be in a much better situation a year or so from now. 

I agree it will definitely help. But do not expect amazing results for 2500 grafts with your current hair loss. The finasteride will take about 6 months or more to give you the full effects of it, if it does in fact help your thickness. 

Which doctor are you going with? Also, 2500 is not going to be enough (depending on your desired result) for most men with your similar loss.

I can attest to that. When the assistant did my extractions, he complimented how thick my donor was and how he was getting a lot of 2's and 3's. When I asked him what was the highest, he said he was able to get a few 4's and 5's but even with an amazing donor, you aren't going to get many 4's and 5's.

 

And to the OP, I'm only 11 days post op so I can't say how good my results are since it's too early, but I can also attest to giving Dr. Arocha a call and at least just meet him and see what he has to say if you end up deciding to do a second HT. Based on the before and after pics of all the recommended doctors on this forum, it would appear the density he is able to provide is definitely one of the best. And he doesn't have any complicated marketing system, he's pretty much upfront with how much he'll charge per graft. I paid for 2000 and right before the surgery,I was paranoid about 2000 grafts not being enough and said I can pay for more even though he thought 2000 should be enough - but he ended up giving me about 100 grafts more for better density and didn't charge me for it

Right. As I said before this is the response I received "In some areas of the mid-scalp it is better NOT to divide up the tissue into tiny one - three hair grafts. This is called a multiple follicular unit. It means stronger grafts, better survival, and less trauma to the tissue. The only reason many clinic will not use this is one simple fact. Since they charge by the graft, they will make less money. Dr McGrath and some other top hair docs will move more hair (as much as possible) into a given area and charge a fair price. This is better for the patient and provides better results""

Also, how much did roughly 2000 grafts cost you with Dr. Arocha? (I'm not in Texas btw, but that is just where I went the first time. Would you consider him over everyone in the US for Quality/Cost?)

I guess? All I know is that he definitely used advanced microscopes to do the procedure.

It's highly unusual, and very unlikely you had 500 plus 5 hair grafts at your surgeon's disposal.

 

You could be very unique, but I feel that is highly irregular physiology, especially since I think I just watched some youtube videos of that music guy that touts McGrath essentially say he had mini-grafts placed in the back to punch up the density.

 

It's wait and see time for you now, what's done is done, let's see how it grows in.

 

But in a year's time if you don't like it you may have to get a doctor to remove those, cut them under a microscope and replant them somewhere on the scalp.

 

I don't want to cause you undue anxiety, I know this is a nerve-racking time so let's just hope for the best and take things as they come.

 

We'll cross those bridges when we get there if we have to, so keep us posted.

Right. I guess I'll wait and see what happens in the end. This is another quote I got

"In some areas of the mid-scalp it is better NOT to divide up the tissue into tiny one - three hair grafts. This is called a multiple follicular unit. It means stronger grafts, better survival, and less trauma to the tissue. The only reason many clinic will not use this is one simple fact. Since they charge by the graft, they will make less money. Dr McGrath and some other top hair docs will move more hair (as much as possible) into a given area and charge a fair price. This is better for the patient and provides better results"

Off the top of my head (no pun intended) I don't know, I'd have to ask my physician.

 

But I know nothing on me exceeded three hairs per unit, and the lion's share was one and two hair grafts.

Lol okay.

So you're saying that in today's FUT methods, no one should exceed more 3 hairs per follicular unit?

Those 500 plus 5 hair grafts he put in you for density are not found in nature, he just didn't separate a group of hairs as they grow.

 

A true follicular unit cut under the microscope has 1 to 3 hairs on average, two being the most common, seldom does nature create follicular units that yield 4 or 5 hairs in them.

 

For the reasons I stated in my earlier post, it isn't widely practiced anymore in western medicine.

 

I'm not trying to alarm you and I'm not saying he butchered you, I'm saying evidence suggests he did use mini-grafts by another name to bulk up your density behind the hairline, at least that's what 500 plus 5 hair grafts infers.

if you don't mind, what was your folicular unit hair spread? how many 1s,2s, etc.

He means they're mini-grafts or micrografts, an outdated procedure.

 

"Mini grafting and micro grafting is an older form of strip surgery, which is where a "strip" of hair-bearing flesh is removed, dissected, then re-grafted onto the recipient scalp. In the early days of hair restoration, technicians would have to wear jeweler’s loupes when dissecting the hair bearing tissue, which only allowed a limited range of magnification. This meant less refinement, higher transection rates as well as "chubbier" grafts. This describes grafts that have a substantial amount of tissue surrounding the follicle and hairs. The resulting micro-grafts would contain one to two hairs (micro-grafts) but the amount of tissue left behind would be more than that found on properly dissected follicular units with the same hair counts. Mini-grafts, which are larger than micro-grafts, would contain as little as three or more hairs but many of these mini-grafts containing six to ten hairs."

 

"What are the Side Effects of Micro Grafting and Mini Grafting?

The side effects of mini grafting and micro grafting can include:

 

Necrosis – if enough blood pools under the skin due to too many mini-grafts placed too close to each other then the size of the incisions to accommodate the larger nature of the grafts can be too traumatic for the skin causing subsequent tissue death.

Infection – Again, if the skin is traumatized excessively from attempts of dense packing then infection can easily take hold.

Ridging – This occurs when excessive tissue is inserted into a concentrated area and it cannot be absorbed by the body. This potential side effect is one of the main reasons why multiple passes are required to achieve cosmetic density when compared to follicular units from FUE or FUSS."

 

Timeout, have you or have you not had a procedure with Mcgrath, you use past tense in some of these posts like you've had a procedure already.

Yes I already had the procedure with Mcgrath. I showed the pictures early in this thread. Now I just have a couple of questions:

1. You say mini or micro grafting is the older way of performing strip surgery. What would the new way of Strip surgery be?

2. How can you tell that I had micro or mini grafts in the procedure that I had? I was informed that I did not receive a micro-mini graft surgery. "All your grafts were dissected under high powered microscopes. Dr Mcgrath asks for the grays to be cut a certain way depending on many variables, (hairline, density, grafts, transition zone, etc)"

Maybe i'm confused, each graft was definitely looked at under the microscope. What do you mean by "line/slit" grafts?

In regards to other doctors, I am really wondering who would be another great option for me.

Maybe. I do have very thick hair though in my donor and everywhere else besides my corners. Also, he typically charges by the following:

Stage 1 – (hairline harvest) $6,200

Stage 2 - $8,300

Stage 3 - $10,400

Stage 4 – (Ultra-DENSITY™) $12,500

Ultra-DENSITY PLUS $13,000 - & UP

Please review the following pricing schedule:

Stage#1 (The Hairline Harvest) 10cm X 1cm 2,000 hairs

Stage#2 17 1/2cm X 1cm 3,500 hairs

Stage#3 25cm X 1cm 5,000 hairs

Stage#4 (the Ultra-DENSITY™) 30cm X 1cm 6,000 hairs

I was charged stage 2 because that's what we agreed before I flew out there but in the in person consultation we agreed I would probably need the stage 3, but he didn't charge me that price.

Not paid or booked, but it is in writing, and nope he doesn't cut them up. Hair count would be the same regardless whether you cut them or not so no reason to. My procedure had 503 single hair folicular units for the front, 475 transition zone 2-3 hair follicular units, and 585 Multiple folicular units. The average hairs per graft the in multiple folicular units is 5.

Grafts or hairs? McGrath has tried to sell people by the hair and not by graft in the past.

 

Most elite US physicians charge between 4 and 6 bucks a graft, so 2100 grafts for $6k would be a red flag.

 

I have a personal bias for Dr. Gabel because he's done me right and I admire his ethics.

 

He's a little bit more affordable than his highly respected friend and peer Dr. Konior, who I also can only say great things about.

 

I live in Austin and flew to Portland for Gabel, twice.

 

But ultimately do your homework by consulting these guys and I know money matters, but don't let it be the difference between going elite and making a mistake because in the end going elite is cheaper if you do it right the first time.

 

My opinion of McGrath is that he does average work and has a lot of undesirable trappings surrounding him.

I had paid around $8300 for 4800 hairs. His pricing is in stages, and he said if I returned to get the same amount of hairs (4800) he would lower the cost to a stage lower. This would be around $6300. Granted when I agreed on the cost of $8300 I was expecting less hairs, but after talking with him and agreeing I would need more he said he would do it without raising our agreed price. That's where I am getting the $6300 from for a returned visit.

Who does this forum mainly suggest in regards to a balance of skill/cost? I'm in Ohio but I can travel anywhere if it need to get it done a second go. Which I was expecting before going into it the first time.

Considering Mcgrath again, he would take off ≈$2000 for me returning to do the same amount of hair again (Comes to around $6000 for roughly 2100 grafts), and then put fue hair into the scar for free after a year.

Is his work really so bad that this wouldn't be my best decision? I'm just curious

Who did you end up with? What did you get done, and why didn't you choose McGrath?

I will do. I am at 1 month 17 days after surgery now.

hsrp10, I’m not saying this is why OP chose Dr. McGrath but he has a bit of a YouTube following after having done a couple of repair cases on some popular YouTubers who’ve had hair transplants elsewhere. The two youtubers have no relation to one another but their videos are extremely well received on YouTube. He’s a bit old school but specializes in both FUT/FUE, PRP, and SMP. He speaks like a very ethical and competent doctor and the posted videos are pretty informative. All that being said, I live less than half a mile from his office and I’m still hard pressed to even do a consultation with him. To me, anyone can talk a big game but results are what speak to me and he doesn’t have a whole lot to show online.

 

I know you said that your post was for others still researching and that’s exactly why I threw in my two pennies.

I do not live in Texas, but after all the things I heard from him on youtube, and when speaking with him he seemed like very knowledgeable and seemed very sincere. He didn't seem as though he was trying to get your money, but rather do what he can to help and inform his patients. I heard a lot about bad doctors in the industry,and I really liked what I was hearing from him so I decided to go with him. He is on the board of American society of hair restoration surgery, and only does hair transplant work. He offered me $500 off for travel, and he also offers FUE into the FUT scar for free after everything heals (I had an FUT procedure). He also lowers his price significantly for return patients. So if I did go back to him I could get the same amount of hair for $2000 less. I liked everything he was saying/offering and that's why I chose him. I was expecting a second surgery for maximum coverage, I was just wondering if this won't by itself look too bad/obvious when it grows in. If anyone has any suggestions for other doctors could you make a case as to why I should choose them? I am honestly very curious. I thought my choice was a good one.

This was during the surgery

I do not have fine hair. I actually have a great donor with very thick hair well over 200cm per square inch.