Scotsman

I'm sorry about that. It probably is a wee bit of a crusade as I've been personally stung, but those that were stung weren't dealt a fair hand. I would have said fair dos myself if I'd known the risks when I took the medication in 2000ish. I can understand your concern for hair. It's just that it is now further down my own list of concerns since fin damaged my appearance in other ways. And regarding conclusions, if it wasn't for some crusaders the fin users would be even more in the dark and the warning leaflet wouldn't have been updated by the fda warning of possibility of permanent sexual sides. Us bleaters only want guys to have the facts we wished we had ourselves before taking it. It's then up to you.

I don't have the power to take away your rights. It's on the market. Fair dos. But you do have the right to be better informed about what you're taking. Don't put the fact that its FDA approved as some gold standard as to its safety. The point is there are unknown risks to taking this medication with no current solutions. I wouldn't stop you smoking, but it can still do you harm. And tobacco companies have spent quite a bit in their history protecting their brand and what harm it does. A stretch, I agree, but no less valid for it.

I'm sure you will be fine. I personally was only making the point that side effects can happen and then may not resolve, but on the most part you can only go with your own experience. The most important thing is to manage your stress first as worry is self-defeating. Take care. P.S. Sorry to bang on here, but guys will come on and offer you complete reassurance, which is impossible to give. They can only say that you will probably be fine, but fin can have the potential to do what you say. Saying otherwise would be offering you reassurance but without any substance to back their categorical denial of any potential for harm.

You are perfectly comfortable linking hair loss with despair but don't give equal weight to the psychological harm propecia can inflict. All medications can cause side effects, but unlike most other medications which are intended to keep you healthy, the side effects leaflet for propecia is suspiciously scant. You may believe that propecia makes you healthier. I would agree that psychologically at the moment it does, although hanging round hairloss sites when it appears to be working is rather strange. My argument would be that you are gambling with your health to keep your hair. Ultimately it comes down to this: are you perfectly happy that the cost of you keeping your hair is that some men will have their lives ruined or ended? You can quibble with causality all you like, but the body count is accruing just for men to keep their hair. Because that is what's happening. Psychological distress over hair loss does not trump permanent physical, cognitive, and sexual side effects in my opinion, no matter how rare, or not. Men need to know the risks. Don't bite the hand trying to give you a heads up here.

Your personal experience means nothing. I too was in your position. Your experience does not negate the negative experiences of others. I don't understand how that is so hard to grasp. And you are not out of the woods yet. If you stop then you may experience unwanted sides. Something Merck has failed to tell you.

Well, it is funny that many men report penile shrinkage. If that side happened to you I don't think you'd be happy. As I said, I appreciate that medications have side effects, but this is a cosmetic product, not something to make us more healthy. You yourself have admitted erectile difficulties on the drug. But for some of the persistent side effects there are no solutions currently, which is why we are seeing suicides. I repeat, this is not a medication to take to keep you alive, it is to keep your hair. The potential side effects are a lot more upsetting than hair loss, and the current leaflet does you a disservice as it doesn't tell you of all the sides that you could experience. I wouldn't be quite as upset if Merck laid their cards on the table from the outset and were honest, but they weren't and still aren't. I took propecia in good faith and I myself was happy with the fact that I held on to my hair, although I didn't spend my time hanging out on sites like these when it was working, which I find a bit strange. I was living my life. Premature ageing and a diminished dick is not a price worth paying for keeping my hair, and since you care about your appearance like we all do, this is a lot more upsetting than a bald head. Trust me.

Shampoo. Of course medications can have side effects. But my issue with fin is that the benefit/risk analysis in my mind is that for what is fundamentally for cosmetic purposes and not for medical reasons it should not be on the market if there is a risk that it can cause permanent harm, no matter how small. Also, Merck weren't honest with you and didn't conduct a proper safety evaluation of its product and also didn't reveal until years later that sexual dysfunction may not resolve (as one example of their duplicity). I would be happier if it was a level playing field, but it is not. Despite not having side effects now, side effects can occur on cessation, much like SSRIs. This is education, not scare mongering. Erectile Dysfunction and Low Sex Drive Inadequately Reported in Hair Loss Drug Trials for Men: Northwestern University News

Yeah, it's more the hair loss that was stopped by fin, sure, or some existing pre-disposition, rather than permanent impotence, brain damage etc. Your logic is impeccable.

It's a shame that you didn't read my post properly spanker. The side effects I experienced occurred within a short time of stopping fin. I suspect that it is unusual for a man in his late 30s to have his penis suddenly get thinner, coupled with the other sides. My initial comment may have been appallingly crass, but you have ably demonstrated my argument in dismissing concern out of hand. And the anecdote about the man who wasn't able to recognise his parents comes directly from the son of the founders of the pfsfoundation who is now dead. I think that you would be a darned sight more depressed if these other things happened to you, but if you want to be selfish and throw other guys under the bus, then so be it. I find your response not unusual but wilfully ignorant and contentedly blind. Good luck. And like Merck it appears that a vested interest has clouded your judgement, whether that be keeping your hair at the potential expense of your health, or your hair industry links.

History will make the guys who deny a link between finasteride and suicide to be similar to holocaust deniers. Keep taking the pills that alter your neurosteroid levels if you like, just don't go crying here if you stop and find that you are one of the many men devastated by this drug. You won't get any sympathy from the men here who have so far not had any adverse effects from this drug which impacts your many hormonal pathways. I speak from experience. Jees, I feel suicidal cause I'm going bald. Try adding a shrunken dick, thinned skin, subcutaneous fat loss, persistant sexual dysfunction; and for other guys cognitive issues so severe that they don't even recognise their parents. Try telling the families and friends of those who have taken their lives that propecia side effects weren't a factor. Or trying reading the despairing online testimonies of those who ended up ending their misery by completing suicide and then say that these awful side effects weren't a factor. I appreciate that propecia is keeping the hair on your head, but it is also sending others to their grave.

A copy and paste from just one page of a petition. The man whose suicide the original poster reported added his own name to this petition as you can see. His name was Nick Barrington. Read the other comments on this one page: Merck: Fund studies into the Post Finasteride Syndrome Petition by Julian Parks To be delivered to Ken Frazier, CEO of Merck The Post Finasteride Syndrome is a serious, life-altering condition that occurs in some men after quitting the hairloss, prostate drug Finasteride (Propecia, Proscar). Bringham and Woman's Hospital and Baylor College of Medicine have launched research studies to help find treatments. Merck has an obligation to help. There are currently 866 signatures. NEW goal - We need 1,000 signatures! PETITION BACKGROUND Many men have committed suicide due to the severe symptoms of Post-Finasteride Syndrome. Countless others have lost their romantic partners and careers. Thousands of men who take Finasteride are at risk of developing this life-altering condition. The maker of Propecia, Merck, has an ethical responsibility to fund research into the Post Finasteride Syndrome. CURRENT PETITION SIGNERS 586. Jeremy Rickens from Sanford, CA signed this petition on May 3, 2014. 585. Dave H from HTFD, CT signed this petition on May 3, 2014. 584. Robert House from Clovis, CA signed this petition on May 3, 2014. My as a Clinical Nurse Specialist, My 16 year relationship, all my belongings and my SF home were lost. Hospitalized 5 times for suicide indeations and near attempt. Now, I'm an anxious, unhappy,sexless, in poverty,and alone: a tattered shell of my former self. 583. dana welter from York, PA signed this petition on May 3, 2014. 582. Linda Baker from Austin, TX signed this petition on May 2, 2014. 581. Emma from United Kingdom signed this petition on May 2, 2014. My uncle took this and ended up killing himself! There is not enough warning to users and it's to easy to buy online without making sure men are aware of the dangers. 580. Don C. from South Africa signed this petition on May 2, 2014. 579. Hayley from United Kingdom signed this petition on May 2, 2014. 578. Nick Barrington from Glastonbury, United Kingdom signed this petition on May 2, 2014. Life destroyed by this drug. His comment, not mine.

I don't quite understand your argument, although watch this space re: inquiries into suicides. It's up to you whether you take it or not. It's absolutely not scaremongering. It's guys who have been harmed making sure that other guys are fully informed, no matter how low the risk. There is still a risk however and we are informing you of such. As to the rest, it's entirely up to you. I'm a great believer in informed consent. Sadly at the moment a lot of guys who decide to take this drug aren't being given the whole picture and are told by their physicians in some cases that side effects will stop on cessation. This has been shown not to be true, to the point where even the labelling has been changed. Labelling evolves as more and more adverse events are reported. We are just giving any guys considering the drug a better picture than we were given ourselves as I'd imagine that most who have experienced what propecia can do wish dearly that they had been fully informed themselves. And another thing, as I've stated earlier in the thread, like other medications like SSRIs, it's only on coming off the drug sometimes that certain side effects occur. When I stopped I lost subcutaneous fat to my face and my penis became thinner, so even if you think you are out of the woods, this drug that you are taking still has the potential to fuck you up. Good luck.

Thanks for your moderate response to my impassioned posts. I appreciate that we all come from our own perspective and mine is as someone who has experienced side effects from this drug. Without presenting a paranoiac vision of Western capitalism, I know of hair loss surgeons who have been had direct negative feedback from patients who have suffered and yet continue to spin a line, probably because the FDA and the official literature backs them up, and that they can brush off sufferers as not being statistically significant, or look for other factors, much like those that are too keen to dismiss any signs of causality linking propecia to suicide (speak to the founder of the post finasteride syndrome foundation on that one who lost his son to suicide, or read his son's tragic posts on propeciahelp). Propecia IS dangerous, but unlike the car that patently killed that young actor this week, proving causality is not so direct, therefore it is much more easy to brush off. I'm not saying that there is an odds on chance that your life will be irrevocably changed by this drug, but a hair loss drug that is on the market that CAN (no matter how low the odds), lead to sides like penile shrinkage, depression, anxiety etc. etc. would by my definition be called dangerous. Look up Merck and Vioxx, then decide whether you'd trust them with your health.

Accepted, but we are not talking a level playing field here. Not all side effects, like penile shrinkage, are on the patient information sheet, Merck has been shown in the past to manipulate the truth, and of course it works for hair loss - it worked for me. It may work perfectly well for many whilst on it, without any obvious side effects, but to be in a position whereby a drug for hairloss is approved when there is the risk, no matter the percentage, of life altering side effects, including permanent sexual dysfunction, brain fog, subcutaneous fat loss (the potential side effects are quite extensive, despite the carefully managed list you are provided with) is shocking. If people like yourselves and hair loss physicians were honest about what can occur when you start inhibiting a vital enzyme and disrupting your endocrine system to save a few hairs then I would say fair game, you know the risk, but you don't. We are telling you from our own experiences, and despite the anecdotal nature we know first hand sadly that pharma lies, and because you haven't suffered yourself you believe them. You are invested in dismissing guys like myself because you have invested in your hair, but try to have an open mind. Even if you take the tack that all drugs have risks, is it really worth it for hair. Don't be a patsy for big business. I'm pleased that it is working for you, but there is a responsibility to those who are still considering propecia as an option that they are fully aware of the risks and that they could genuinely suffer and regret the day that they were convinced by a hair restoration surgeon, or some dude on a forum that it is safe. It is not. And re: the hair loss surgeons, don't believe for a second that they are neutral on this - ker-ching!

Go on and take propecia if you like. Hell, mash it up and rub it all over. I know my post won't make a blind bit of difference but all the guys who are anti-propecia are guys who have been bitten by it, including myself. I can think of a lot better things to do than post on this site, but if you wish to delude yourselves into thinking that big pharma is good and conducted legitimate trials which properly assessed for side effects then so be it, and that after thousands of years of evolution the 5ar enzyme can somehow be inhibited without consequence. Many don't experience side effects until cessation, so proclamations about it working and not doing any harm are meaningless. And to dismiss a man's suicide due to propecia is irresponsible without knowing the facts. Learn about how guys suffer first and read some first hand testimonies of those who have taken their lives. Or speak to their loved ones. Or listen to the many testimonies on blogtalk radio. But no, we must be talking shit, or are hypochondriacs, or whatever, because you're so invested in your fucking hair its pathetic.