paleocapa89

Originally Posted by paleocapa89 View Post

I have also learned never to go to a clinic which generates its revenue purely based on the number of grafts they transplant (like them) and don’t charge a fix price. This revenue model will only motivate them to scale up their operation and transplant as many grafts in as little time as possible..

I don't know where you got this idea. The vast majority of clinics worldwide charge on a per graft basis. Some have a sliding scale whereby the charge per graft goes down after a specific number but fixed prices are virtually unheard of.

 

It is simple economics. If you get your revenue exclusively based on the grafts you transplant you will be motivated to transplant as many grafts in as little time as possible. However if you set a flat minimal charge like fix 5000 dollars for 1000 grafts or less than you will be able to cover the fix costs of the procedure even if you only transplanted 700 grafts.

Here is why your idea does not work well in practice. There is 1 physician I know of that used a model like this. We advised him to change this model and he did due to the following complaint.

 

The clinic's fee structure was setup like this...

 

1. 2000-2999 grafts FUT or FUE for 3500 Euros

2. 3000-3999 grafts FUT for 4000 Euros

3. 3000-3999 grafts double day FUE for 4500 Euros

 

The patient was advised that he required 3,000 grafts FUE.

 

Now, do you feel that 1 extra graft for an additional 1,000 Euros is worthwhile? Now, if you're at the high end of the range then it may be a bargain.

__________________

Your argument is valid, however not really contradicting my thoughts. I was saying a clinic that gets its revenue purely based on the number of grafts it transplants will be motivated to upscale and transplant as many grafts in as little time as possible.

Let's assume a day of operation cost 2000$ for a hypothetical clinic (salaries, rent of operating room equipment etc). If this clinic gets its revenue purely based on graft number and the price of graft is 2$ then unless the clinic transplants 1000 or more grafts in a day it will not earn profit but make a loss. Would this clinic offer the patient an operation of 700 grafts? No it would not because then it would make a loss of 600$ on the patient.

Now if you introduce a flat fixed type of revenue let's call it "price of operation" and set it 2000$ and set a price for each grafts as well on top of it like 1$/graft then you will make profit regardless of the number of transplanted grafts because the fix cost of the operation will be covered by the flat "price of operation" revenue and you will not need to upscale your operation, or hurry with the procedures to jam as many transplanted grafts in a day as you can, since you will be making profit with each transplanted graft.

please at least read what I have written. Questioning everything I write and believing everything that the clinic writes does make me wonder whether I can expect impartiality from you. I had the procedure in JUNE 11-12.

And just to be clear: it was not a two day procedure, it was in the afternoon of June 11 and in the morning of June 12 while other procedures were also taking place on those same days.

I think it shouldn't matter whether it was the doc or the tech or the janitor, anyone who did was clearly a butcher, and this person needs medical and psychological help immediately.

Hang in there buddy.

Let's please keep this thread on topic. This discussion was started by Paleo to discuss his experience.

 

In reading over the continued discussion, I can agree with the majority of what's been said. However, I don't agree that anyone is placing "blame" on Paleo for anything. We have to remember first and foremost that there is absolutely NO way of knowing if this hair transplant will be a raving success, complete failure or anything in between. In fact, as has already been pointed out, the OP's statement that he is 4 months post-op is totally incorrect. According to the clinic, he had surgery on the 11th and 12th of July. That puts him at 3 months 8 days today from the completing of his procedure.

So this is how things work around here? I state my claims, I reason, I back up everything the best way I can, then the doctors rep and the moderators hand-in-hand come in and refuse everything I claim without real evidence or reason. My statement that the procedure was 4 month ago is not totally incorrect, it only shows how you would question everything I write and believe everything the clinic writes. My operation was not in JULY but in JUNE. If you'd like I can send you photos with date tags, email conversations, airplane ticket, anything. Is this picture convincing enough?

Yes, we do have to provide, support and a shoulder to lean on when members come with concerns whether they be real or imagined and the publishers of this community have a long history of advocating for patients, facilitating communication with physicians and helping them to attain a desirable outcome when results do not meet expectations. But, sometimes people need some tough love and I don't feel that pointing out falsehoods, misconceptions or misunderstandings or requesting proof is placing blame. We are not talking about a failed procedure in this case.

 

Again, if you take the time to review the many listed complaints. Many just don't hold water at this point in time.

I urge everybody to read those forums and decide themselves. And I will invite those members here as well.

"They may have wasted a number of my grafts and to compensate either harvested more and/or implanted less grafts. I admit, this one claim I cannot prove."

I also state that it is based on the grafts that I found laying on top of my head, the unprofessional atmosphere of the procedure and the fact that my donor looks overharvested

OP admits this cannot be substantiated. Now says we are "giving extra attention to my claim of graft wastage".

 

So let's move on to the next issue.

"However the techs were dropping equipment and cursing during the operation"

What does this even mean? I've seen a couple of comments about this being unprofessional. Are we meant to believe that multiple techs we dropping tools repeatedly and hurling expletives throughout the two-day procedure or did a single tech drop a tool and mutter something? How do you know it was s curse word? Was it in Turkish or English? What was the word? Everyone has a different interpretation of "cursing". For some "darn it" is unacceptable.

I don't think you need to be a linguist to be able to recognize the sound of equipment being dropped and the cursing that follows, even if it is in turkish.

"I have uploaded my post-op donor picture and a bunch of post op donor pictures from other clinics’ 2500 graft procedures and compared to them my donor area looks overharvested and thinned out in certain points. In my opinion they either transected a lot of grafts, harvested more or didn’t care about the pattern at all."

A number of you guys have reviewed the pics and advised that this is likely shock loss. The only way to know for certain (as with most other aspects of the procedure) is to allow the transplant to fully mature. Good advice given on this topic by the community!

I agree, that is why I will keep documenting everything, however the many ex.patients that suffered donor scarring from Dr Doganay does not give me much hope. I also state that the middle of the back of my head looks the exact same from post op day 1. I believe shock loss occurs later.

"When I mentioned the donor scarring they told me that after a FUE procedure one should wear its hair at least 1-1,5 cm long to cover it!! To my understanding the very reason of a FUE procedure is to be able to wear my hair 4-5mm long."

 

Here I agree with Paleo that the appeal of FUE is the potential for wearing shorter hair. While there are no guarantees that this will be the case, it is certainly common and I'm surprised that the clinic would state otherwise.

At least we agree on this one. I think is unacceptable to advertise FUE only to say later, "sorry yes, we do FUE but without the benefits of FUE" .

"Anyway, my hair is longer than 1,5 cm and the signs of the scarring is still visible. Anyone can check it and decide."

Of course it is. You are only 3 months and 1 week post-op and potentially have shock loss. In my personal experience, my donor appeared thin on the sides for some time after my FUE. It has filled in nicely now.

Again, it's been more than 4 month

"Upon questioning they told me I have an average donor with 45-50 grafts/cm2, which is a guess at best as they never measured it, and it is way out of the literature which states an average donor is between 65-85 grafts/cm2."

 

This has already been explained as a miscommunication on the part of the clinic.

Again, you believe everything that the clinic states. When I asked about donor density (knowing that they have no idea because they have never measured it) this is the answer I received:

"Donor Density: Average, which is 45-50/per cm2

Use tools: Micro motor with 0.7 mm punch attached

Implanter pen needle size: 0,6 mm for single graft 0.8 mm for double grafts 1 mm for triple grafts

Minumum 4 years experience assistance extracting performed by Fatma Can Implantation performed by Dr. Hakan His assistance name Şerife Kapson

Density of grafts put in the recipient.. 50 grafts implanted in per cm2

They have clearly differentiated their two answers regarding the donor density and the recipient density. Only after I told them that the average donor density is 65-85 cm2 they changed their answer.

Yes it is easy to deny it afterwards. Do you really believe it they have written recipient density two times in one answer? Once stating it is average 45-50 and later stating that it is 50cm2? Very unlikely. In my opinion simply the rep answered who had no knowledge of what real donor density is, and since they had no information about my donor density having never measure it, he simply tried to bluff something.

"As we mentioned in our email, we meant the density of the receiving area, which is 45-50 grafts/per cm2. Please check the "after 2 weeks" pictures showing the density of the receiving area.

 

The donor area supply was enough as it can be seen on the pictures. Otherwise, we would not accept this operation. There are some potential patients.And even if some of them insist to have operation from our clinic, we reject them since their supplies are not enough."

"It has been 4 month since the operation and my recipient area never looked good for one minute since. It is red, bumpy with red spots and minimal growth. Moreover, a number of the grafts that were implanted by the tech are misaligned."

 

Again, as of today it's been 3 months 1 week. It's not unusual for the recipient area to not look good.

Again, it's been more than 4 month

"I have been in contact with the clinic since and all they had to tell me was everything looks fine. To be factual at one point around month 2 after repeatedly asking about folliculitis they recommended me to take antibiotics for 5 days, and when 3 month post-op I was still in bad shape and I told them I am even willing to fly back to Antalya they offered me a prp treatment, an ozone treatment, and some cream and a shampoo for free but it did not improve my situation.

 

2 weeks ago I got so fed up, I have contacted a trusted hair restoration surgeon and a dermatologist. A bacterial culture was taken from my head which came back positive. I have been prescribed antibiotics and anti-inflammatory cream and for the first time in 4 months I am seeing improvements."

 

Again, I don't understand the complaint. When we travel abroad for surgery, we do so knowing that our physician is not down the block in the event of an emergency. The first thing anyone should do if they suspect folliculitis or other serious complication is consult with a local doctor. It's very difficult to give a diagnosis online or over the phone. The clinic ultimately advised antibiotics and went above and beyond in my opinion.

Again, you are simply protecting the clinic. I have sent them hundreds of HD pictures, I have asked them many times about folliculitis only to be turned down every time. Yes, at one point they advised me antibiotics which did not do much, but they told me everything was fine. I even flew back to them to a personal check up, and still they did not do anything to properly diagnose me.

Do you think this is normal for a recipient?

"My only wish now is to shave my head but I am left with a low, uneven hairline with thinning all over behind it and a badly scarred / overharvested donor."

 

This single sentence alone says a lot about this thread.

Given that I have now found out that I am going to bald in a norwood 5-6 pattern pretty soon, and don't have nearly enough donor to compensate for it and now I also have a low hairline (compared to the future pattern of hairloss and a proper game plan) yes, I think shaving my head is the only way out. Do you have a better idea?

1. Not even 4 months post-op with no idea what the transplant will look like and the OP already wants to just shave his head?
   

Several comments have stated that the hairline does not appear too low. As we all know, hairlines are typically uneven by design in order to mimic nature. If the design is not to the patient's liking when all is said and done, it can be easily augmented.
There is no photographic evidence at this time to support that the donor is either badly scarred or over-harvested.

"I will apologize for and withdraw any statement that anyone can disprove."

 

I addressed the above already but I must state again that this is not how things work in the US. One cannot make unsubstantiated claims or defame another in print without providing proof and our Terms of Service don't allow it.

To mee, it seems I am the only one providing hard evidence and trying my best to back up everything.

Imagine if I published in a public forum that someone was involved in criminal activity or was a sexual deviant of some sort, provided no proof and then said I'll gladly retract the information if someone can disprove it. What?

 

Look, I have absolutely nothing against Paleo. I want the best of results for him as I'm sure each of you do as well. Right now no one knows how his transplant will turn out. If the result is truly subpar, I'm certain that Dr. Doganay will make it right and he will most certainly have the full support of the publishers of this community.

 

Until then, let's keep this in perspective and be both fair and realistic.

To Bill:

I'm a little late in chiming in with my thoughts but that's because I know that David was already in the process of working with you. I do happen to understand and share some of your concerns, mainly the one that 2500 grafts were used in such a small area when you have so much thinning behind it. That said, I know that Dr. Doganay did address the possibility of future hair loss and suggested that you get on hair loss medication.

 

While Dr. Doganay did provide you with enough information to make an informed opinion (informed consent), the real issue here is whether or not a patient should be able to make the decision for himself or should the doctor recognize that this isn't the best strategy and refuse to honor the patient's request and provide him with a much more conservative procedure?

So this is how things work around here? I state my claims, I reason, I back up everything the best way I can, then the doctors rep and the moderators hand-in-hand come in and refuse everything I claim without real evidence or reason. Did you even care to read through my previous answers?

No Dr Doganay did not provide me with enough information to make an informed consent. He didn't even have enough information to make an informed decision himself. He did not check for donor capacity, donor density, level of miniaturization, etc. How can you inform the patient without that information? How can you come up with a game plan without that information? You can't.

He took a quick look at my head drew a new hairline and quoted 2500 grafts. I would not call that an proper evaluation.Yes we talked about potential future hair loss due to my family history. No he did not inform me about my CURRENT hair loss. I visited him to get my CURRENT hair loss evaluated and check my eligibility for a hair transplant. Do you think I would have done a procedure if I was aware of my thinning? Do you think I would have wanted 2500 grafts put in the front if I was aware of it or I was told about the ongoing thinning? No I would have not.

Let me ask you this, but I am still waiting for an answer from the doctor himself:

Given that I am very young. I have aggressive hair loss. My family history shows high norwood scale hair loss. He never checked for miniaturization and donor capacity. And I told him I was not on propecia due to sides. On what basis did he think I was a good candidate for a hair transplant? What made me a good candidate? What made he think 2500 grafts to the front is a good approach?

I've seen varying opinions on this. In some cases, I would argue that as long as the patient has all the facts and thus, can provide informed consent, that he should be free to make the choice for himself. On the other hand, sometimes even when we have all the information we make foolish decisions that can bite us in the ass later down the road and it may have been better if someone with more experience and knowledge (in this case a physician) stopped us.

 

In this case, it looks like Dr. Doganay laid out the facts and provided you with the power to make the decision for yourself. Unfortunately, now it looks like you have some regrets.

No, he did not lay out the facts.

In looking at the pictures however, I honestly don't share your concerns at only 4 months. In my opinion, everything looks to be on par and everything appears to be healing nicely. As you already know, it takes at least 12 months (and longer for FUE it seems) for the hair transplant to fully mature. Thus, while some of your concerns are related to the procedure and communication, in my opinion, the best thing to do at this point is to wait it out to see what the results look like in 12 months. Then, you can decide how to proceed.

 

That said, I do strongly recommend you consider hair loss medication such as Propecia and/or Rogaine to help combat future hair loss in the thinning areas. Do understand however, that all hair loss medication comes with the possibility of side effects and that you should fully research and understand the pros and cons of these before moving forward.

 

Best wishes,

Bill

Alright, a lot of people seem to be giving extra attention to my claim of graft wastage, and not the other ones which in my opinion are much more unsettling. Although I do have a photo with two grafts laying on top of my head and I do think the techs behaved unprofessional from time to time during the operation, I admit I can not prove they wasted more than those two grafts.

However the possible overharvestation of my donor area does concern me as many former patient of Dr Hakan Doganay ended up with badly scarred donor. And the fact that the clinic is telling me after the procedure that a FUE scarring should be covered with at least 1-1,5cm long hair is just infuriating. It contradicts the very reason of having a FUE procedure.

Hi

I would advise you to read my thread.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/181266-warning-if-considering-dr-hakan-doganay-read-first.html

So you have a pictures of TWO hairs... POSSIBLY grafts on the top of your head.. out of a possible 2500, and you are claiming many re wasted? I think patients of HT procedures are too quick on the trigger to blame the Dr regarding their future hair loss. It is up to the patient themselves to do their part in researching HT transplants. With the internet these days, there isn't anything you cannot find online. Surely, you had noticed your diffused thinning prior to your HT? You went in wanting your hairline reconstructed. That is what you got. With respect to the yield, that is yet to be shown whether it is a success or not. The donor looks fine to me. As for the further hairloss, that is on you and no one else to blame.

If you cared to read my whole post you would know that even I admit that graft wasting can not be proven without doubt, however the wasted grafts laying on top of my head and the other things I mentioned are not good signs. But sure, you must know better than me. Would you consider a quality work when grafts are laying on top of your head? I don't think so.

And no, I did not notice the diffuse thinning but you know that better as well don't you. I went in not to get my hairline reconstructed, but to GET MY HAIR LOSS EVALUATED AND GET INFORMATION ABOUT MY ELIGIBILITY FOR A HAIR TRANSPLANT. Do you think I would have done a procedure if I was aware of my thinning? Do you think I would have want 2500 grafts put in the front if I was aware of it or I was told about the ongoing thinning? No I would not.

Do I think it would have been the doctor's responsibility to properly assess me and inform me? Yes I do, it is his frickin job, he earns money by doing it, he is the professional, there are ethical guidelines he adopted to follow.

And guess what, not everybody is perfect like you. I'm sure you would have done the research and every aspect of the procedure perfectly. Hell, I think you would have done the operation on your head by yourself as well.

I stopped using regaine 1 year before the procedure so my real hair loss situation could be examined (which did not happen adequately) and I have not used it since the operation because my recipient area never looked healthy enough to use it.

Hi Yaz89

yes, it might be shocklos, however the thinned out region on the middle of the back of my head is the same from post op day 1 so I think they have simply overharvested the area. But we will see, that is why I will document everything up to 1 year to be fair.

No I was not on minoxidil and I am still not on it.

First, I would like to thank Dr. Doganay for being proactive in responding to paleo's statements and concerns.

I would also like to address some of these issues.

 

Paleo,

 

As a hair transplant patient with 3 surgeries under my belt (both strip and FUE), the first of which yielded less than expected growth, I understand the compulsion to second-guess your decision, your physician's advice and the work itself. When I was in that position, I received some very good advice from this community and that was to wait until the results grew in before assessing the quality of the work. That was good advice and it's the best advice you'll get at this early stage.

 

I have reviewed your photos and, from what I can tell, the hairline looks appropriate for the number of grafts and in the design. I cannot honestly evaluate the donor area. Perhaps someone else may be able to offer their input.

 

While I believe you are sincere in sharing your experience, I think your fears and concerns are very premature and I have to take issue with some of your claims.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by paleocapa89 View Post

It has been 4 month since the operation and my recipient area never looked good for one minute since. It is red, bumpy with red spots and minimal growth.

At only 4 months this is pretty standard. Growth should be minimal at this point. Yes, you will hear about some patients who heal quickly and look great in a month or two. That was never my personal experience. With my first two transplants I remained quite red for many weeks.

 

Folliculitis is not common but can happen. For patients that travel abroad for surgery, getting the diagnosis can be tough. Unfortunately, consulting with a local physician is a must if you suspect complications.

 

Dear David,

I understand one should wait at least 12 month to evaluate the results of a hair transplant, however, most of my allegations would still stand if I get the best growth in the world.

I was not properly assessed, Dr Hakan Doganay just took a quick look at my head and recommended me a procedure of 2500 grafts to the front. Not one word was told me about any ongoing miniaturization at all. If I was told I would have canceled the procedure. Who in his right mind would want to put 2500 grafts to the front when he has an advanced norwood 5-6 pattern? What doctor would recommend putting 2500 grafts to the front when the patient has an advanced norwood 5-6 level of miniaturization?

They basically recommended me a procedure and planned it without proper knowledge of my miniaturization and my donor capacity. How can you come up with a game plan without this crucial information? You can't. Now it became evident I will lose my hair in a norwood 5-6 pattern an I don't have nearly enough hair to compensate for it.

I also know that my emotional state can influence how I evaluate things retrospectively, that is why I try to remain objective and back up everything I claim as best as I can.

I know folliculitis can happen, however after repeatedly sending HD photos to Dr Hakan Doganay and even flying back for a personal consultation, I was never properly diagnosed and I would be still dealing with it if I had not approached a trusted hair restoration surgeon and a dermatologist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paleocapa89 View Post

In the IAHRS website it was written that Dr. Hakan Doganay extracts and implants the grafts himself, I only found out later that he uses techs with very little experience do all the extraction and a part of the implantation as well.

Our community is not affiliated with the IAHRS and our Terms of Service prohibit linking to any of their resources. However, Dr. Doganay is recommended by our community and you can view his profile here.

 

His recommendation profile clearly states the following:

 

"Dr. Doganay's experienced technicians carefully extract follicular units and store them in sterilized cabs in the refrigerator before placement. Dr. Doganay prefers to place grafts in the crucial hairline areas himself while he gets help from experienced technicians for the remaining ones and place the grafts together."

 

Again: this is how his profile looked earlier when I was planning my procedure, a lot could have changed since then, but luckily there is always trace on the internet:

"...Dr. Doganay is very hands on and personally extracts and places all the grafts himself. ...

...In his hands, transection rates and damage to follicular units during extraction and placement are typically minimal...

...Dr. Doganay then carefully places all the grafts himself into tiny recipient sites using the pen implanter....

Dr. Hakan Doganay Hair Transplant Surgeon in Antalya, Turkey

Quote:

Originally Posted by paleocapa89 View Post

They may have wasted a number of my grafts and to compensate either harvested more and/or implanted less grafts. I admit, this one claim I cannot prove..

I don't think it's fair to make such a statement when there is no proof that this occurred.

 

I admit, this one claim I can not prove with hard evidence, however as I told you, the technicians were dropping equipments during the operation and I have a picture with discarded grafts laying on top of my head.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paleocapa89 View Post

In my experience they are more like a hair transplant mill than a quality clinic. I was rushed through the whole procedure starting from the inadequate evaluation through the operation itself which (for the most part) was carried out by techs with minimal experience. I have reason to believe they are having 2-4 procedures a day seven days a week in two locations.

There are a couple of statements here that I find concerning. First, you state that the techs have "minimal experience". How do you know this? Did you ask them how long they have been in the field or how many procedures they have done?

 

The second is that you say you "have reason to believe" that Dr. Doganay is performing up to 4 procedures per day at two locations and that AHD Clinic is a "hair mill". Again, these statements are very disparaging and my feeling is that they should not be allowed to remain public unless you can supply substantial evidence to support them.

 

Dr. Doganay has maintained that he performs 1 and sometimes 2 procedures daily at a single location and this is also stated in his profile.

 

Upon asking they told me the techs have a "minimum of 4 years experience". They could have told me an exact number but they didn't. I admit I can not prove it, I can only warn other people that in my opinion they have very little experience. Some of them seemed even younger than me and I am only 26 years old. The only way to decide this question is to Dr Hakan Doganay publicly post who he is working with and those techs' CV's.

I am certain that they are having at least 2 procedures a day seven days a week. I do remember the number 4 procedures in two different locations but you are right, I can not prove it. Maybe former patients can confirm this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paleocapa89 View Post

They sold me their clinic and their procedure as top-notch and less invasive, I only found out now that using micromotor for extraction and Choi implanter for implantation is much more invasive than the techniques used by leading clinics (manual punch, custom made blades, lateral slits.

This is absolutely false. A number of top docs use motorized punches and/or implanter pens with great success. My FUE was performed using the Powered SAFE Scribe and I couldn't be happier with the results.

 

I care to disagree with you on this one. Upon searching rigorously I have found that manual punch, custom made blades and lateral slits are the most advanced and least invasive way of a hair transplant. This was not evident to me only after hours of research (which I should have done earlier) There must be a reason why all the leading docs use these techniques.

I think it is very misleading toward the newbies with very little information to state that all the techniques are equal. They are not. In my opinion the extraction and the recipient site creation is the most important part of the surgery. A doctor should not let these two aspects out of his hands.

And after all the tool is only as good as the person using it. And all the extraction and most of the implantation was done by techs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paleocapa89 View Post

I have also learned never to go to a clinic which generates its revenue purely based on the number of grafts they transplant (like them) and don’t charge a fix price. This revenue model will only motivate them to scale up their operation and transplant as many grafts in as little time as possible..

I don't know where you got this idea. The vast majority of clinics worldwide charge on a per graft basis. Some have a sliding scale whereby the charge per graft goes down after a specific number but fixed prices are virtually unheard of.

 

It is simple economics. If you get your revenue exclusively based on the grafts you transplant you will be motivated to transplant as many grafts in as little time as possible. However if you set a flat minimal charge like fix 5000 dollars for 1000 grafts or less than you will be able to cover the fix costs of the procedure even if you only transplanted 700 grafts.

I arrived to Dr Hakan Doganay with a receding hairline and he merely looked at my head and did not evaluate my hair loss and miniaturization at all. If he did, it would had become clear that I not only have a receding hairline but a full, advanced norwood 5A-6 balding pattern. If I was told that, I would never had went through with the procedure. I clearly articulated before the procedure that I do not want to take propecia due to sides. We talked about potential future hair loss given my family history, but I was not informed that I am already way down the road. ( I became aware of my hairloss situation when my hair started to grow back postop)

 

- Dr. Hakan Doganay did not evaluate my donor capacity either. He carelessly drew a new (somewhat low) hairline on my head using up 2500 grafts (for which I already paid for in advance). He did not warn me about my ongoing hair loss, or come up with a conservative game plan for the long term.

 

You had operation on 11th and 12th July, 2015. Before the operation, you wanted to visit our clinic for a face to face consultation, and you come to the clinic on 26th May, 2015. In this consultation we evaluated the donor area and hairless area. We clearly mentioned that you may need a second operation in the future due to further hair loss, you need to use medicine, otherwise you could lose your hair.

 

Additionally, after the face to face consultation, you mentioned in your email that you wonder whether you should go even more than 2500 grafts, and we replied that "please also think for future hair loss". Please check the emails on May 28, 2015.

Yes, I have visited your clinic prior to the operation, and yes we have talked about potential future hair loss due to my family history. But no you have not evaluated neither my donor capacity, neither my donor density,diameter etc. nor my ongoing miniaturization. If you had evaluated me properly the miniaturization would had became evident. I would not consider taking a quick look at my head an evaluation. If you had evaluated me correctly with the adequate equipment, please share the information here for the forum members: donor capacity, donor density, hair diameter, level of miniaturization etc.

To sum up: I sent you pictures of my hair loss thinking I only had a receding hairline, and you told me I am eligible for a hair transplant and I will need 2200 grafts. Then I visited your clinic told you I can't take propecia due to sides and asked you whether one can have a procedure without propecia and you told me yes. I told you I want something to better frame my face. You took a quick look at my hair and confirmed that I need 2500 grafts and drew a low youthful hairline on my head, basically reinforcing me in my belief that I only had a receding hairline. Yes, I was asking whether more grafts would give a better outcome, because I had no information about my CURRENT hair loss at all.

Not one word was told me about any ongoing miniaturization at all. If you told me I would have canceled the procedure. Who in his right mind would want to put 2500 grafts to the front when he has an advanced norwood 5-6 pattern? What doctor would recommend putting 2500 grafts to the front when the patient has an advanced norwood 5-6 level of miniaturization?

You basically recommended me a procedure and planned it without proper knowledge of my miniaturization and my donor capacity. How can you come up with a game plan without this crucial information? You can't.

Let me ask you this:

Given that I am very young. I have aggressive hair loss. My family history shows high norwood scale hair loss. You never checked for miniaturization and donor capacity. And I told you I am not on propecia and I do not want to take propecia for the rest of my life due to sides. On what basis did you think I was a good candidate for a hair transplant? What made me a good candidate? What made you think 2500 grafts to the front is a good approach?

In the IAHRS website it was written that Dr. Hakan Doganay extracts and implants the grafts himself, I only found out later that he uses techs with very little experience do all the extraction and a part of the implantation as well.

Dr. Hakan Doganay – Turkey Hair Transplant MD | IAHRS Member

 

You had operation on 11th and 12th July, 2015. Before the operation, on April 21, 2015 you asked about procedure details in your email. We emailed you the following link for the plan and details: www.hakandoganayfue.com/hair-transplantation/our-methods

 

In the link, the surgery details including the extraction procedure explained. Please check the email on April 21, 2015.

 

Yes you have emailed a link to a website which could have changed by now. Here is how it looked like earlier:

Our methods

Yes, it still states, that the HEAD technician extracts the grafts, and not the doctor (although in my case I think it was not the head technician but someone with less experience, If you care, please share who performed the extraction and the years of experience she had.)

My main point is, most parts of the operation were performed by technicians without Dr Hakan Doganay even being there. The technicians were chitchating, listening to their music, dropping equipment etc. It was far from a professional environment.

I think it is not a coincidence that many patients prior to me had badly scarred donor area and misaligned / not growing grafts implanted by the technicians.

And no, it is not true that Dr Hakan Doganay implants the whole hairline, and the technician only implants the vertex as the technician who worked on me implanted nearly all of my grafts on the left side and I basically had a "hairline operation". Anyway the difference in quality can be clearly seen between my right and left side. The grafts are growing in every direction.

In addition, I clearly remember Dr Hakan Doganay leaving the operation during the implantation before the procedure even finished. And when it was over and I stood up and you handed me a mirror the left side and the right side of my hairline and temples were VERY uneven. And when I mentioned this your technician started to panic and started pulling out some grafts that were already implanted. (Dr Hakan Doganay had already left)

Do you call this a professional, quality work? I do not. My hairline is still uneven to this day.

And

- They may have wasted a number of my grafts and to compensate either harvested more and/or implanted less grafts. I admit, this one claim I cannot prove. However the techs were dropping equipment and cursing during the operation and I have a picture with discarded grafts laying on top of my head. I have uploaded my post-op donor picture and a bunch of post op donor pictures from other clinics’ 2500 graft procedures and compared to them my donor area looks overharvested and thinned out in certain points. In my opinion they either transected a lot of grafts, harvested more or didn’t care about the pattern at all. When I mentioned the donor scarring they told me thatafter a FUE procedure one should wear its hair at least 1-1,5 cm long to cover it!! To my understanding the very reason of a FUE procedure is to be able to wear my hair 4-5mm long. Anyway, my hair is longer than 1,5 cm and the signs of the scarring is still visible. Anyone can check it and decide.

 

 

The grafts were not wasted. Normally, we transplant 2500 grafts in 1 day, but upon your request, we did your operation in 2 days.

 

Additionally, in your email you mentioned that another clinic advised 4200 grafts. We emailed back that it seems that you don't need 4200 grafts, and around 2500 grafts should be enough, but the exact number of grafts will be decided when you are in our clinic. Also, we advised to get estimation for the number of grafts from other top clinics to double check. Please check your email on April 13th, 2015.

 

Before the operation in the clinic, we mentioned that wearing hair at least 1-1,5 cm long depending on the scalp is necessary to cover the sign of the operation.Also, your donor on the pictures seem normal for 4 months.

 

I admit, this one claim I can not prove with hard evidence, however as I told you, the technicians were dropping equipments during the operation and I have a picture with discarded grafts laying on top of my head.

There is no way to prove it, but I have a feeling that they might have extracted more, but it is based on the fact how overharvested my donor area looks like in certain points. But maybe it is because the technicians transected the nearby follicles, or maybe because they did not care about the pattern I don't know, what I do know is that I can't wear my hair short anymore.

I think it is not a coincidence either that many ex-patients complained about donor scarring.

An no, you did not tell me that after a FUE procedure one can only wear its hair 1-1,5 cm long. The whole point of the FUE to be able to wear the hair very short without noticeable scarring. If you can't provide that you might as well do strip procedures or at least warn your patients about it properly.

- Upon questioning they told me that they implanted 50 grafts/cm2 (check the pictures to see if that is true) and that they have harvested 2500 grafts (check the pictures if that is true) Upon questioning they told me I have an average donor with 45-50 grafts/cm2, which is a guess at best as they never measured it, and it is way out of the literature which states an average donor is between 65-85 grafts/cm2. If my donor density was in fact 50 grafts/cm2 that would had meant that it was low and I was not suitable for a FUE hair transplant.

Distribution of Human Hair in Follicular Units - ResearchGate

 

As we mentioned in our email, we meant the density of the receiving area, which is 45-50 grafts/per cm2. Please check the "after 2 weeks" pictures showing the density of the receiving area.

 

The donor area supply was enough as it can be seen on the pictures. Otherwise, we would not accept this operation. There are some potential patients.And even if some of them insist to have operation from our clinic, we reject them since their supplies are not enough.

 

Taking a quick look at my hair and deciding my donor area is enough for the quoted 2500 graft procedure is not a professional approach. Is it enough to cover the further hair loss as well?

When I asked you about the donor density (knowing that you never measured it) I wanted to test whether you give me an honest answer. This is what you wrote:

"Donor Density: Average, which is 45-50/per cm2

Use tools: Micro motor with 0.7 mm punch attached

Implanter pen needle size: 0,6 mm for single graft 0.8 mm for double grafts 1 mm for triple grafts

Minumum 4 years experience assistance extracting performed by Fatma Can Implantation performed by Dr. Hakan His assistance name Şerife Kapson

Density of grafts put in the recipient.. 50 grafts implanted in per cm2

You have clearly differentiated your two answers regarding the donor density and the recipient density. Only after I told you that the average donor density is 65-85 cm2 you changed your answer. The truth is, you have no idea about my donor density because you have never measured it.

In my experience they are more like a hair transplant mill than a quality clinic. I was rushed through the whole procedure starting from the inadequate evaluation through the operation itself which (for the most part) was carried out by techs with minimal experience. I have reason to believe they are having 2-4 procedures a day seven days a week in two locations.

 

As we mentioned, normally, we transplant 2500 grafts in 1 day, but upon your request, we did your operation in 2 days, and your operation was not rushed. We have 1 or maximum 2 procedures a day, and we have only one location.

 

As our regular process, we keep monitoring our patients by asking them to update us with the pictures until seeing the full result as we do for you.

 

Yes, I asked you to split the procedure to two days, because I already felt rushed with every aspect of the procedure. And you did split it to two days.

However I can clearly remember you told me you are operating 7days a week at least two procedures a day. And I can clearly remember you told me you have two locations, two private hospitals. Former ex-patients might back me up on this one. Since Dr Hakan Doganay does only very minimal part of the procedure, it is not hard to believe that you can cram up to 3- 4 procedures to one day.

If it prove to be a false allegation, I apologize, that would mean you are doing 2 procedures a day 7 days a week

Thanks

!!! If you are considering Dr. Hakan Doganay and AHD Clinic in Antalya please read this first!!!

I am a former patient of aforementioned doctor. First, I will sum up my personal opinion of the clinic and the situation they have put me into, then in a later post I will try my best to share my story as detailed as possible. In my opinion choosing him was the worst decision of my life. Though I am greatly influenced emotionally, I will try to be as objective as possible, and let the reader decide whether I am right or wrong. I have created a picasa album where I am documenting everything in detail. (find links below)

A few words about me: I am 26 years old, been dealing with hair loss since I was 18. Hair loss runs in my family, both my brother and my father is Norwood 5-6. I always kept my hair medium-long so I thought I only had a receding hairline. The last few years I was in depression because of my hair loss and thought only getting my hair back could make me happy again. I trusted Dr. Hakan Doganay and AHD Clinic and now I am in worse shape than before, I can back up anything I am stating below:

- I arrived to Dr Hakan Doganay with a receding hairline and he merely looked at my head and did not evaluate my hair loss and miniaturization at all. If he did, it would had become clear that I not only have a receding hairline but a full, advanced norwood 5A-6 balding pattern. If I was told that, I would never had went through with the procedure. I clearly articulated before the procedure that I do not want to take propecia due to sides. We talked about potential future hair loss given my family history, but I was not informed that I am already way down the road. ( I became aware of my hairloss situation when my hair started to grow back postop)

- Dr. Hakan Doganay did not evaluate my donor capacity either. He carelessly drew a new (somewhat low) hairline on my head using up 2500 grafts (for which I already paid for in advance). He did not warn me about my ongoing hair loss, or come up with a conservative game plan for the long term.

- In the IAHRS website it was written that Dr. Hakan Doganay extracts and implants the grafts himself, I only found out later that he uses techs with very little experience do all the extraction and a part of the implantation as well.

[Link removed by moderator - see Terms of Service) ]Dr. Hakan Doganay – Turkey Hair Transplant MD | IAHRS Member[/url]

As people pointed it out, this website is not affiliated with this forum hence I can not make references to it, I did get a link to the clinic's website before the procedure which stated the head technician extracts the grafts and Dr Hakan Doganay implants the hairline. In my case it was not the head technician who extracted the grafts but an ordinary technician and not only Dr Hakan Doganay implanted the hairline but the head technician as well. It was also told me by the clinic retrospectively that the technicians have minimum 4 years experience. - edited 27/10/15

- They may have wasted a number of my grafts and to compensate either harvested more and/or implanted less grafts. I admit, this one claim I cannot prove. However the techs were dropping equipment and cursing during the operation and I have a picture with discarded grafts laying on top of my head. I have uploaded my post-op donor picture and a bunch of post op donor pictures from other clinics’ 2500 graft procedures and compared to them my donor area looks overharvested and thinned out in certain points. In my opinion they either transected a lot of grafts, harvested more or didn’t care about the pattern at all. When I mentioned the donor scarring they told me that after a FUE procedure one should wear its hair at least 1-1,5 cm long to cover it!! To my understanding the very reason of a FUE procedure is to be able to wear my hair 4-5mm long. Anyway, my hair is longer than 1,5 cm and the signs of the scarring is still visible. Anyone can check it and decide.

As people pointed it out I can not substantiate the claim of wasting more than those two grafts that are laying on top of my head-edited 27/10/15

- Upon questioning they told me that they implanted 50 grafts/cm2 (check the pictures to see if that is true) and that they have harvested 2500 grafts (check the pictures if that is true) Upon questioning they told me I have an average donor with 45-50 grafts/cm2, which is a guess at best as they never measured it, and it is way out of the literature which states an average donor is between 65-85 grafts/cm2. If my donor density was in fact 50 grafts/cm2 that would had meant that it was low and I was not suitable for a FUE hair transplant.

Distribution of Human Hair in Follicular Units - ResearchGate

- It has been 4 month since the operation and my recipient area never looked good for one minute since. It is red, bumpy with red spots and minimal growth. Moreover, a number of the grafts that were implanted by the tech are misaligned. I have been in contact with the clinic since and all they had to tell me was everything looks fine. To be factual at one point around month 2 after repeatedly asking about folliculitis they recommended me to take antibiotics for 5 days, and when 3 month post-op I was still in bad shape and I told them I am even willing to fly back to Antalya they offered me a prp treatment, an ozone treatment, and some cream and a shampoo for free but it did not improve my situation.

2 weeks ago I got so fed up, I have contacted a trusted hair restoration surgeon and a dermatologist. A bacterial culture was taken from my head which came back positive. I have been prescribed antibiotics and anti-inflammatory cream and for the first time in 4 months I am seeing improvements. My only wish now is to shave my head but I am left with a low, uneven hairline with thinning all over behind it and a badly scarred / overharvested donor.

Preop postop + photos of 2500 graft FUE extraction to compare

Recipient

Donor

Future balding pattern

I am aware that the full result of a hair transplant can only be seen after 12 months so my situation might improve, however even if I’ll have good growth (which I doubt) I will lose my hair in a norwood 5A-6 pattern very soon and I do not have nearly enough donor to compensate for it.

A number of people will say that 4 months is too early to evaluate a result and I might have shock loss in the donor area, and I just might be a late grower so, to be fair I have created a picasa album where I will document my case from pre-op through the 12 months so anyone can evaluate them himself independently. After 12 month I will shave my head so the donor scarring could be evaluated as well.

However I have reason to believe that the problems I described will remain, as after digging rigorously (which I should have done before) I have found numerous other ex-patents with similar problems and recurring themes, namely:

- poor growth

- bad donor scarring

- misaligned grafts and poor growth on the side where the tech implanted the grafts.

Xkos48: poor growth from procedure

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/172307-3916-grafts-hakan-doganay-antalya.html

BFA316 : poor growth from procedure

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/173749-4-500-fue-dr-hakan-doganay-07th-march-2014-a.html

Mickeydw: badly looking right side (implanted by tech), transplanted hair fell out later

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174564-4065-grafts-dr-hakan-doganay-australia-turkey.html

Jugendlich: poor growth, badly looking right side (implanted by tech)

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174373-fue-1500-grafts-04-aug-2014-dr-hakan-doganay.html

BluEMoOn: poor growth, patent later disappeared

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/180476-look-worse-6-months-post-op-then-pre-op.html

TOharbourfront: poor growth on left side (implanted by tech)

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/180710-dr-doganay-not-responding.html

johnny2000: poor growth, bad donor scarring, misaligned grafts implanted by the tech

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178922-fue-scar-12-month-post-op-pictures.html

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174976-1308-grafts-dr-hakan-doganay.html

gimmefiction: satisfied overall, but the left side looks weaker (implanted by tech)

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/179332-dr-hakan-doganay-2800-fue-26-y-o-november-2013-a.html

srdonjuan : weak growth, weak right side (implanted by tech)

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/171811-dr-hakan-doganay-3600-graphs-fue.html

William1: poor growths, grafts possibly wasted?

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/177789-dr-doganay-2050-grafts-3500-strands-hair.html

levi12: poor growth

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174171-4025-grafts-fue-dr-hakan-doganay-july-2013-a.html

Buzz2: poor growth, very bad donor scarring

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/174668-what-point-do-you-call-failure.html

boricotico: bad donor scar

(Link removed by moderator - See Terms of Service)

tonious: very bad looking result

Hair Restoration Websites

A number of people will say that I should have been aware of my own hair loss and I should have researched more thoroughly before I jumped into a hair transplant, and those people are right. However, I was in denial and depression due to my hair loss and my judgement was impaired by my emotional state. Seeing the good results posted by the clinic, the IAHRS membership and the recommendation given by this site was enough for me to trust Dr. Hakan Doganay and AHD Clinic blindly.

I think they have violated the ethical guidelines of the IAHRS at least in 3 points:

IV. The select member will not provide treatments that are deemed pointless or harmful by the IAHRS, or ones that an informed and competent patient refuses.

V. The select member will ensure patients receive the information and support they need to make important decisions about hair loss prevention and improvement of their existing condition. Members will answer questions as truthfully as they can and respect patients’ decisions, unless these decisions put the patient or others at risk of harm. If members cannot agree with their requests, they are required to explain why.

IX. The select member acknowledges that he/she is in a position to affect each patient’s appearance, self-confidence, and possibly the emotional, social, and professional success of the patient for his/her entire life. With every treatment, the emotional well-being of the patient will be considered as important as the outcome of the actual treatment itself. The lifelong effect of each treatment will be considered in light of potential continuing hair loss.

I cannot understand how Dr. Hakan Doganay can still be recommended by this site. Sites like this carry a huge responsibility because uneducated patents like me (and others) are misled and falsely assured by the recommendation. If he was not, I (and many others) probably would had never chosen him.

In my experience they are more like a hair transplant mill than a quality clinic. I was rushed through the whole procedure starting from the inadequate evaluation through the operation itself which (for the most part) was carried out by techs with minimal experience. I have reason to believe they are having 2-4 procedures a day seven days a week in two locations.

As people pointed it out, I can not substantiate the claim that they are doing more than 2 procedures a day and I was told by the clinic that the techs have minimum 4 years experience -edited 27/10/15

They sold me their clinic and their procedure as top-notch and less invasive, I only found out now that using micromotor for extraction and Choi implanter for implantation is much more invasive than the techniques used by leading clinics (manual punch, custom made blades, lateral slits. This might be evident for the seniors but it is not for the newbies. Yes, I was uneducated). Upon rigorous research it also became evident that there are good results only posted by the clinic itself.

I have also learned never to go to a clinic which generates its revenue purely based on the number of grafts they transplant (like them) and don’t charge a fix price. This revenue model will only motivate them to scale up their operation and transplant as many grafts in as little time as possible.

I am aware of the gravity of my allegations, and I stand behind them. I am a real patient of Dr. Hakan Doganay which I can prove, I am open to any question by anyone. I have created this thread to share my story and get the independent opinion of a third party. I am also inviting all the linked patents, other doctors to this thread as well as the representatives of Dr. Hakan Doganay. I am open to a debate. I will apologize for and withdraw any statement that anyone can disprove. I have nothing to gain out of this, but I felt a moral obligation to share my story.

If the result is good currently, I don't see the point of postponing the pictures 1 month. I have a feeling that we will not hear about this poster anymore..

Dear David

I understand that one should wait 12 months after a hair transplant to evaluate the final result however I have looked at hundreds of patients post op pictures and I could not find one that looked similar to my situation. That is why I am concerned and I think that something is wrong with my healing. In this case I believe early intervention is important (especially in terms of abnormal wound healing) and I do not think simply waiting is a good strategy.

I posted my story here because I am running out of options. I have lost all my trust in my doctor and clinic for multiple reasons. They could never provide me with a satisfactory explanations to what is happening to me, nor could they recommend anything that improved my situation. My recipient and donor looks godawful and they have created a low hairline without warning me about the ongoing thinning in a norwood 5 area. If they have told me I would have canceled the operation sure, but that would had been in my best interest not theirs. And when I told them all this they accused me of an ulterior motive insinuating I just want my money back. Believe me, my money is the last thing on my mind.

After all that I have been through, please understand my desperation.

Thank you for the support, but I honestly think that something is wrong with my healing. Maybe it is caused by the poor surgical skills maybe its me, maybe both, I don't know. Now my only goal is to heal the best possible way so down the road I will be able to shave my head after some repair.

My main concern currently is my red and bumpy sometimes itchy recipient area. My recipient never looked good since the operation but I was always told by the clinic that it is normal. I never had trouble with healing before. I can't trust my clinic anymore. (among other reasons, they talked me into a 2500 graft fue to the front, not warning me about my ongoing thinning in a norwood 5 area) I have been hiding from the world for 3 months now and became depressed. I have just read Dr. William Lindsey's post about itchiness and hypertrophic scarring ( Itchy Scalp Post Hair Transplant: Should I Be Concerned? | Hair Loss Q & A ) and became very concerned. My donor also look like crap.

I would like to reach out to the experienced forum members and doctors to get a second opinion. Since I could not upload the high-res pictures, I added a link to my picasa album, please check it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/112640619773477959199/2015Szeptember22?authkey=Gv1sRgCNjG7MqfovyIxAE&feat=directlink

I also need advice who to turn to for a possible personal consultation in Europe who I can trust and who can evaluate my case and help me heal the best possible way, so I can achieve my goal and put this horrible mistake behind me.

Thank you

Hi,

I had a horrible hair transplant experience 3 month ago with a recommended doctor which I will share in detail later. Now my only goal is to heal the best possible way so down the road I will be able to shave my head after some repair.

My main concern currently is my red and bumpy sometimes itchy recipient area. My recipient never looked good since the operation but I was always told by the clinic that it is normal, I just heal slowly. I never had trouble with healing before. I can't trust my clinic anymore. (among other reasons, they talked me into a 2500 graft fue to the front, not warning me about my ongoing thinning in a norwood 5 area) I have been hiding from the world for 3 months now, and became depressed. I have just read Dr. William Lindsey's post about itchiness and hypertrophic scarring ( Itchy Scalp Post Hair Transplant: Should I Be Concerned? | Hair Loss Q & A ) and became very concerned. My donor also look like crap.

I would like to reach out to the experienced forum members and doctors to get an honest opinion of an outsider. Since I could not upload the high-res pictures, I added a link to my picasa album, please check it.

https://picasaweb.google.com/112640619773477959199/2015Szeptember22?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCNjG7MqfovyIxAE&feat=directlink

I also need advice who to turn to for a possible personal consultation in Europe who I can trust and who can evaluate my case and help me heal the best possible way, so I can achieve my goal and put this horrible mistake behind me.

Thank you

You are right, the picture is not showing, I have created an album and uploaded some pictures there, I will add some more soon.

And you are also right that I should have been aware of my thinning, however, before the procedure I had long hair and I didn't know what was going on. I think it would have been the doctors responsibility to point it out to me and either refuse to operate on me or create a long term plan with me.

This did not happen, I have already paid for 2500 grafts in advance and when I met the doctor he just drew a new hairline on my head using up all the grafts I have paid for and rushed me into a decision. It is much more disturbing if you add the fact that I have clearly articulated that I will do anything to preserve what I have but I do not want to take Propecia for the rest of my life.

I know I was naive and uneducated, but I also think that the monetary gains were the most important to my doctor.

Thank you for the support. I am going throught some really hard times. I just want to regain control over my life and repair the stupidest mistake I have ever done.

In this picture you can clearly see my future balding pattern which I was not aware of and was not told of by the doctor either. Instead he placed 2500 grafts on my hairline. That is the pink, dotted area in the front (after 2.5 months) . It makes me furious.

Sam23

Thank you for the encouraging words. In a way, you are right, this is 'just' a cosmetic problem, but I can't find my peace with it. I would much rather be bald then be the guy who scarred himself due to his insecurities.

Post transplant depression is a very real thing in my opinion, and you might be suffering from it, but you might have a great result at the end. I do think that for many people a hair transplant can be a life altering change for the better.

I am angry because I have evaluated the costs and benefits of a transplant at my age, and I thought it would be worth it if I win 5-7 years of confidence in this stage of my life. Who knows maybe they will find a cure by then. I was willing to take that risk, when I thought I only had a recession at the front.

Now that I can clearly see that I am balding in a norwood 5-6 pattern and I was not warned about it and the doctor created a very youthful hairline for me using up 2500 of my grafts, I am furious. I think it was either highly unethical of him or it was due to negligence. If I was properly told about my level of thinning I would have walked right out of the door. Hell, I would have not cared about the loss of money either. I might get the best growth in 10-15 months but the costs and benefits are hugely different now. I bought myself 1-2 years of good hair and a lifetime of misery and repair work.

I am sure there are ethical doctors out there, and I do not wish to curse the whole hair transplant industry but I have learned that you can not trust someone just because he is recommended, have good reviews and an ISHRS member. And I feel like a fool.

Thanks for the support, it really means a lot. I will go to a therapist next week to help me process all that I went through and possibly help me get on with my life. But I know that I will never feel complete again until I undo this horrible thing. This makes me feel way worse than hair loss have ever made me feel.

You are right that I am still early in the recovery and if the constant redness and inflammation haven't killed most of my grafts I can still get a good result but even if I do I will always be chasing my hair loss until my donor depletes completely.

The sad thing is that I had a good donor (or so was I told) and I could have probably evaded complete baldness with careful and conservative donor management. Now I am left with a low hairline and thinning all over top.

I will make some photos and upload them soon.

I am a young hair transplant victim in deep depression, desperately seeking for help and advice. I opened this thread here, because I have been a victim of a doctor who is recommended here but do not wish to share his identity yet. Once I will, I will post this to the hair restoration patent experience forum as well.

I wanted to share my story so others can avoid the mistakes I did. If it is too long to read but you might be able to help me or to guide me to someone who can help, please scroll down to the part where I describe my present situation. Any help is greatly appreciated. You might literally save my life.

My Story

I was around 17-18 years old when I started losing my hair. I always feared this moment in my life, because my brother and father both have aggressive hair loss. I was in denial, I thought this cannot happen to me, anyway, my hair color and texture is different so I will not lose my hair.

But of course I started to lose it. It sent me into a deep depression, it shattered my confidence and I could not focus on my life, I became obsessed with my hair loss. I was the guy, who did not want to go swimming with his friends, who hated the wind when it blew, and got freaked out when someone touched his hair. To sum up, it reduced my life quality significantly. I was always hiding, and not living life to the fullest.

My way of coping with it was to focus on my education, and vision a future when I will solve this problem and become happy again. I think that’s when I have decided to have a hair transplant at some point in my future, when it will miraculously solve everything, and life will be great again. WORST DECISION OF MY LIFE.

Fast forward to this year, I am 26 years old, finished university, and not yet started to build my carrier. I thought it was the perfect timing to get the hair transplant done. I thought it will boost my confidence, which is ultimately an investment in myself that will pay off in the long run. I could put some money aside, but obviously not enough to go to a top doctor.

So I started researching, and found a doctor who was highly recommended here, an ISHRS member, and affordable. I thought bingo, that is my guy (I don’t want to tell his name yet, but I probably will later). I sent him photos of my hair loss - probably was a norwood 3 at that time - and he recommended a FUE surgery of 2500 grafts.

I could barely pay for it with all my savings, but I did not care. Obviously I did not do a thorough research, I was so focused on the envisioned bright future that will come after I repaired my hair. I visited him, told him the family history of hair loss, and that I wanted something that would frame my face better, and that I do not want to take propecia for the rest of my life.

Obviously I was the worst candidate for the procedure. I was 26 years old with a highly receded hairline, and a family history of aggressive mpb. But I was in denial. I still had a fair amount of hair on the top of my head – or at least that is what I thought - which was long so I thought I only lost my hair in the front. But I was dead wrong.

The doctor took a quick look at my hair, and confirmed that I need 2500 grafts to the front, (for which I have already payed for...) He didn’t warn me about my ongoing thinning in a norwood 5 area, and neither did he tell me how much donor I have, or to be extremely conservative and careful. He either didn’t care, or did not take the time to properly assess me. I don’t know which is worse. He drew a new hairline on my head, and rushed me into a decision. Obviously I loved the new youthful hairline (who woudn’t) and believed and accepted everything he told me. Yes, I was a fool, but I think it was also unethical what he did.

Just a little add on: the hairline was clearly asymmetrical, I pointed it out, but I was told, that it is just a plan and they will take care of it during the operation. Major red flag, but I still believed it. I looked into a mirror after the operation and it was left asymmetrical, but I was told it just looks asymmetrical due to the swelling. I still believed it..

I went home, and felt happy for a while, little did I know, that the problems will just start to arise. I went through some major scabbing, but I was told it was ok. Then after I lost all my transplanted hair, I started to develop redness, pimples and red spots all over my recipient area. I was told it was ok. At some point I was told to take ciprofloxacin 500 which is an antibiotic against folliculitis, but I was told everything was fine. At this point I have to tell that I am a fairly healthy guy with no problem with healing what so ever.

Days and weeks went by but my situation did not improve, I had red spots, and inflammation in my recipient area, but I was told it is normal. I planned for 3 weeks of recovery time (as it is normal) but the weeks and months just kept on going without improvement. I had to come up with excuses, why I am avoiding my friends, and started to slip into depression from the isolation and the solitude. But the worst was still to come..

As my hair started to grow, for the first time in my life, I could clearly see the norwood 5 pattern which was developing, and I was angry and shocked. How could this happen? Why didn’t they tell me? Why didn’t they refuse me or at least told me to be very conservative with the hairline and the graft count? If I know what was going on, I would have never had the procedure.

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That was it. I fell into major depression. At 3 months after the FUE surgery of 2500 grafts, I am left with an asymmetrical hairline that is way too low with red spots all over, and a butchered donor area. Yes, the donor is also ruined, either the punch size was too big, or the pattern was not careful enough but there are clear signs of overharvestation in certain areas. I am furious at the doctor and angry at myself. Why couldn’t I accept the way I looked before? Now I would give everything to undo the whole thing and just be who I was before. As it turns out, I am going to bald in a norwood 5 pattern anyway. I am suffering from major depression, I can’t sleep, I wake up every 3 hours shaking and crying. I honestly don’t know what to do, I feel like my whole life is ruined. If I didn’t have my family to support me I don’t know what could have happened...

I am seeking your help in desperation. What options do I have now? How could I repair the damage? Is there any way to return to how I was before? Honestly, I would not mind balding anymore, I just want to shave my head and get on with my life. I probably should have done it years ago. Hair loss is a fight that just eats you up inside, I just want to free myself from it. I just don’t want to be scarred for life due to the biggest mistake of my life.

What I have read about so far:

1. FUE punching out the grafts and either lose them or place them somewhere else, maybe back to my donor or on my vertex?

My concerns:

How much scarring would that cause? Can you FUE out the grafts without causing wounds around the hairline? Maybe if the punch is small enough? I don’t care about transection. When can I do that, I am assuming I still have to wait for wound healing and see how much of the transplanted hair will eventually grow.

My questions:

Who should I turn to, who is the best?

In the meanwhile, what should I do to heal the best way possible both in the donor and the recipient are? Should I avoid sunlight can I avoid hypopygmentation? Should I have ACELL therapy, I am still in the fairly early phase of the wound healing.

2. Electrolysis to remove the hair

My concerns: Wounding, discoloration of the skin?

My questions: Who should I turn to?

3. Laser removal of the hair.

My concerns: Wounding, discoloration of the skin?

My questions: Who should I turn to?

4. Fraxel laser on the recipient (and maybe donor) wounds to make the skin better.

My concerns: Wounding, discoloration of the skin?

My questions: Who should I turn to, who is the best?

5. SMP into the donor scars and maybe to the recipient scars once the hair is removed.

This is probably way down the road and my least concern at the moment. I can live with the donor scars for a while, I am more concerned about the problem in the front.

As I am 3 months post operation, I am healing, Can I do anything to heal the best possible way, so later the repair will be more successful?

That is the end of my story I wanted to share my story so others can avoid the mistakes I did. If you might be able to help me or to guide me to someone who can help, please do so, either here, or through email: paleocapa89@gmail.com. Any help is greatly appreciated. You might literally save my life.