paleocapa89

Please don't twist my words. I never disrespected the community, in fact I have nothing but respect towards them. Ultimately it was the community's pressure that made you revoke Doganay's recommendation. I alone would probably could have never make that happen. And no you did not promptly remove his recommendation. You wanted to give him provisional status and only backed out when Doganay became completely unacceptable to the community. The old members remember.

And please don't hide behind the back of the community, they are not the one who gives out the recommendations and not the one who makes a profit on them. You might ask their opinion, but it is ultimately you who make the final decision. But the community who suffers the consequences. Like many of us did with Doganay.

Personally, I do not have a problem with you. But I do have a problem with deceptive marketing promises. And comparing your rigor of screening to the admission process of getting into an Ivy League school is exactly that. I wholeheartedly hope you in fact tightened your screening AND monitoring process, so why don't you tell the community: How many of the recommended surgeons have you visited PERSONALLY to check out their facilities, staff and processes?

Sutureless,

 

It looks like Dave already answered your question, but I just wanted to add some additional input. The way we operate is a lot like an Ivy League university. Harvard for example, only accepts the brightest students with the highest GPA, SAT scores and the best work ethic. But those who are accepted still must pay tuition in order to support the financial institution and all its employees. The reason why Ivy League universities are so credible is because of their high and demanding standards. They also produce some of the greatest minds of our time. Likewise, physicians who are approved for recommendation must meet our demanding standards but also pay an ongoing monthly sponsorship fee to support this patient based community and keep its operation up and running, improving and innovating. This includes paying all of its employees, website services, upgrades, marketing, everything we need to reach and help as many people as possible so that they can find the best hair transplant surgeons.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Bill

Yeah right. Just like with Doganay right? Comparing yourself to the Ivy League? Are you kidding me? Tell that to all those people who had been butchered by your "carefully vetted" doctor who surely met your "demanding standards". I guess you have never officially apologized to them.

Answer me this: How many of your recommended doctors have you visited PERSONALLY to check out their facilities, staff and processes?

The bottom line is, people should not trust your recommendations blindly. You make a profit on them and you are legally protected against any liabilities. There are only a handful of truly talented and professional HT doctors around the world and people should only go to the best of the best when they want to improve their appearance. But recommending only those would hardly be profitable.

search for Doganay on this forum and prepare for the sh*tstorm that is going to hit you.

Stig you are right.

I didn't write my final review yet for two reasons.

1: I wanted to wait for the full 1 year period to end, which is about to end in a week now.

2: I have been through the worst period of my life. And when I say that I really mean that. I had depression, I almost couldn't finish my studies, I had to visit a psychologist frequently to help me get through it. I am sort of back on my feet now and tried to avoid thinking about my experience and sinking back into how I was feeling before.

The reason I replied to that thread is because it was brought to my attention. I would have not known about it without that.

I will write my final review when I reach the full 1 year, if I am not kicked out of the forum before that but I want to tell that I think it was really disgraceful how the admins locked that thread where Doganay's former sales rep uncovered the full truth. How patients were scammed and how unqualified 'nurses' did most of the procedure while Doganay cared mostly about making as much money as he could, disfiguring many patients.

I believe at least part of what he wrote does belong to this forum. It informs the prospective patients and shows what this site's vetting procedure really worth, and what level of trust one should put into the "recommended" label.

I will write my update soon when I find the strength in myself. But nothing miraculous happened. It looks like what it is. a Poor quality, obvious transplant with poor regrowth,

Cenkoa, whatever your ulterior motive was, I am glad, you stand up to tell the truth.

I can't even find the words to express how outraged I am. And you knew all about this all along. Guiding the innocent and desperate people to this slaughterhouse.

Hi all! Happy new year to everybody I had to shave it for a new years eve party, I am growing it out since, I will report about it in a couple of days when I reach the 7 month mark. There might be some growth happening (or I would like to believe it) but sadly its still nothing extraordinary or cosmetically pleasing.

I hope this poor guy will sue the s**t out of you and your clinic Catherine.

Techs doing the extractions is the norm in Europe i'd say, not the states though.

I read somewhere that techs are not allowed by law to score a patient's skin in the USA because that is considered an operation which can only be carried out by a doctor. I don't know if that is true but it would explain why you don't see techs harvesting in the USA.

I think he runs his own place now. It's called ScalpMicroUSA.

However this whole thing turns out, - regarding my final results, the recommendation of Dr. D. and the measures this site might or might not implement to protect the patients - I think I did what I could do. I think the example of my story, my mistakes and the collective information that was gathered (regardless of Dr D.) serves the benefit of this community. I am not going to push any more boundaries that could jeopardize that. From now on I will only stick around to share the development of my result, and to ask respected members for advice how to carry on with a repair if it will be necessary.

Thank you all for the support.

Thank you all for the support guys.

I think you are right. I should have never had a HT in the first place. And I don't think having a second one is a good idea. (unless it is strictly for correction that can't be addressed in other ways) As I learned after the procedure, I have a very advanced and large balding pattern and don't have enough grafts to cover for it. Putting more grafts to the front to increase density and scar myself again, while I am losing hair behind is not a good way to address my problem in my opinion. No more mistakes, I have to assume the worst case scenario and plan backwards.

I made a mistake by jumping into something with very little research and I have to bare it's consequences. I am not going to do that again, I need a plan.

First I am going to wait till 12-18 month to see what I have to deal with, it's not going to be easy but intervening before would be probably irresponsible. Then I am going to consult with some of the top docs and get may balding pattern and my donor capacity properly assessed this time.

During the last six months I went through hell, social isolation and depression, but I think that put my hairloss into a different perspective. Sure losing hair sucks (especially when you are young) but it doesn't necessarily ruin your life. But having a a bad unnatural looking HT and scars on your head is way worse. Naturally, my priorities have changed and I don't want a full head of hair and a great hairline anymore. I just want to look normal. If the final results are acceptable - even if it is only a mediocre looking result - then I will try to live with that.

If the result look unnatural and unacceptable I think removing some grafts (either via laser, electrolysis, or punching) and creating a high receded mature hairline is a better approach then using up the limited grafts I have in the front. I don't want more cuts unless it is absolutely necessary.

Stig:

I don't know what else do you want from me to show you I have accepted my share of the responsibility. I clearly didn't do a thorough research and that is on me. Emotionally influenced by my hairloss, I just wanted a solution to my problem and I didn't nearly comprehend the gravity of having a HT and the HT industry.

Yes, I took the first step on the road that led to this point, but how much blame should be on me? Assessing my decisions, if I could do it again I would probably fell into the same mistakes again. I think the fundamental mistake that influenced my behavior was thinking that I am seeking medical help from a doctor. I had several small surgeries in my life and I never scrutinized the doctor their recommendations their techniques and the assistants they used. Simply because I am wired that way, Doctors are highly respected members of western societies and their authority makes people put their trust into them without having second thoughts. I know now that HT procedures and doctors are a completely different breed.

Yes, my fundamental problem with Dr Doganay is that he found me eligible for a HT without any proper assessment. All the other things followed after, as I learned more and more about Dr D and the HT industry as a whole.

About the article: That article is clearly not about whether technicians have or don't have a paper about their qualifications, but the importance of the skills and the involvement of the technicians. And that is in connection with the whole Dr D case.

Let's face it Bill is probably not going to cease the recommendation of Dr D. But proclaiming that the safety of the patients is the most important thing, writing articles (probably inspired by the Dr D case) about the dangers of utilizing techs without skills (or license or qualifications) for most critical parts of the procedure while protecting a clinic that does exactly that is what made me snap. And I might have expressed myself harshly for which I apologize.

but the response I got from Bill is an overstatement in my opinion

I'm pretty much sick and tired of your ranting and bullying. The article talks about the dangers of "unlicensed" and "inexperienced" technicians. The issue with Dr. Doganay is not the same thing. That said, I've taken the concerns of the community seriously and have been investigating things. I'm still waiting to hear back from the clinic regarding Dr. Doganay's future involvement in procedures. However, I will not entertain your threats and bullying anymore. If you can't behave and speak to me or other members of this community respectfully, it's time for you to go.

I don't think I am ranting, bullying or threatening anyone. If I do, please call me out on it.

Sorry dude,it don't look good so far,brings back memories.that's what my first operation looked like at 6 months.

Damn that's what I was afraid of. If at least the redness would go away, I would be able to shave it and look similar to how I was before the procedure.

6 months is very early stage to discuss On the other hand why don't you keep hair longer as we can see you keep hair longer on the side ( peak line) hair coming very nicely where.you also got implanted anyway

 

I am still optimistic with your result.

 

Wish to best for you

Please if you post pictures of me than at least blur my face and eyes as it is in the release agreement that I signed.

I do have somewhat better cosmetic results on the sides, I don't know why, maybe because I had native hair there, maybe somehow it grew better, I don't know. But as you can see, I can't let the other areas grow out longer because the area is not nearly dense enough to provide coverage.

And yes, I still have a lingering purplish red color

So the 6 month results are in. Be brutally honest.

Should I still remain optimistic that this will turn out to be a cosmetically acceptable result?

Or should I accept the fact that it is more than probable that I will need some kind of repair after 12-18 months and start planning and looking into it (laser hair removal, punching out grafts, electrolysis, fraxel, etc.) if I ever want to get back my life.

I really hope that this is a start to taking measures to ensure quality and the safety of patients otherwise this double-faced communication is so revolting, I can't even describe it.

Are you kidding me with this article, Bill?

http://www.regrowhair.com/hair-loss-blog/caution-dangers-of-unlicensed-technicians-performing-hair-transplant-surgery/

I really hope that this is a start to some measures to ensure quality and the safety of patients otherwise this is just a double-faced approach and communication that is so utterly revolting to me, I can't even describe it.

You can't run with the hare and hunt with the hounds.

Hi, I would also like to hear more about this technique you have described. So if I understood it correctly in a case of FUE overharvesting, you can utilize body hair to make it look less obvious? What kind of body hair are you able to use? Beard, chest, abdomen or leg hair?

Paleo is one patient with one experience and it's obvious that he'd like to see Dr. Doganay removed from this site, all because he's not happy. But this community isn't about making everybody happy. It's about doing the right thing and what's in the best interest of patients.

I never explicitly asked you to remove him. I highlighted a number of things about the clinic that in my opinion makes them a bad choice for anyone to put one's trust in them. I wanted to educate other people, from now on it is up to them to decide whether they chose this clinic or not. I basically did what this site should do to educate and protect the prospective patients. And yet you state that I am just one patient with one experience and it's obvious that I'd like to see Dr. Doganay removed from this site, all because I am not happy.

No, I only asked you to look into those things that were discovered, accept them or disprove them and make a decision that is in the best interest of the prospective patients.

These were the things that were discovered:

- usage of fake accounts to praise the doc's work and recommend him

- usage of shady tactics on another forum and getting banned from there

- usage of techs in the operation long before it was publicly admitted. Deceptive information on the doctor's involvement

- knocking out patients in the past, and when they woke up they found that the techs were operating on them, meaning they were making incisions and implantation with the choi pen. Those patients thought - rightfully - that their operation would be done 100% by the doc, this was in 2014!

- the insufficient and rushed pre-op evaluation and patient information. No donor capacity assessment, no miniaturization check, no master plan. Nothing.

- rotating techs doing all the extraction and part of the IMPLANTATION which in this case - due to the usage of the implanter pen - means they are making INCISIONS as well. The techs are basically conducting hair transplant operation. Were the techs prescreened as well?

- the numerous cases of overharvestation, poor growth and misangled grafts.

One thing I don't accept is the creation of uncertainty and the belittlement of the claims. By the way, I wonder whether these patients were told after the gasoline or the sex incident that they will have a poor result, or these explanations -if they are in fact true- came in handy after they got poor results.

But this community isn't about making everybody happy. It's about doing the right thing and what's in the best interest of patients

At the end of the day, the prospective patients can chose from a ton of other recommended doctors, so it would not be a loss for them to have one less option to chose from. So whose best interest is it to keep a questionable doctor recommended?

I think what is really misleading is that there are a number of high profile doctors recommended by this forum, and that gives it credibility. One would assume that, it must be a reliable source that recommends doctors like Feriduni, Rahal, Konir, Feller or Hasson etc. and it must be hard to get into a group that contains these doctors.

And then there are a number of doctors with questionable quality who gets recommended somehow and then free rides this credibility halo created by the pros.

There is a HUGE difference between the doctors which is not pronounced enough.

The Terms of Services speaks for itself, but it is hard to find.

"...The physicians suggested on our Web Sites are to the best of our knowledge quality hair restoration physicians. However, Media Visions cannot vouch for these physicians, their experience, their credentials or the quality of their care...."

"...Web Site visitors are expected to do their own due diligence and research in selecting a physician and/or treatments. Media Visions and the Web Sites, and their employees, our partners, affiliates, sponsors, providers, licensors, or merchants make no warranties or guarantees, express or implied, as to the results or quality of care provided by the physicians or treatments presented on these Web Sites. We expressly disclaim any liability arising from consultation with, or treatment from, any of the physicians and their clinics presented on these Sites. ..."

..."THE WEB SITES CONTAIN FACTS, VIEWS, OPINIONS, STATEMENTS AND RECOMMENDATIONS OF THIRD PARTY INDIVIDUALS AND ORGANIZATIONS. THE SITES DO NOT REPRESENT OR ENDORSE THE ACCURACY, CURRENTNESS OR RELIABILITY OF ANY ADVICE, OPINION, STATEMENT OR OTHER INFORMATION DISPLAYED, UPLOADED OR DISTRIBUTED THROUGH THE SITES. ANY RELIANCE UPON ANY SUCH OPINION, ADVICE, STATEMENT OR INFORMATION IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK..."

I think you're responsible as well for making the decision and taking some of the blame...

I accept this one, but why should I have opted for more grafts?

leftygolfer71

I am responsible for a lot of things, but I don't think Doganay was using a small amount of grafts. If anything, I think he recommended me a lot more than what I should have had, considering my future balding pattern.

These docs are selling something that in my opinion is not real,except for a small minority that get good results,sometimes the lighting is different and helps with the picture(result).I saw one of dr.hakans reps,I don't remember his name,but I remember seeing his results,and they looked spectacular,but when I see him in person in Antalya,I saw a lot of see thru in his hair,so the result by photo was not exactly the reality.

agreed.

maybe this will cheer you up, probably can't insert the link here, but search for "Histogen - Complete World Congress Presentation and Interview" and it will be the first result. Look for 20:00 minute in the video.

I can't believe that from all the recommended doc's we managed to chose probably the worst one.