GraveD11gger

Does this bring back memories johnboy ?

I had a search for the thread I was reffering to that David taking the plunge was involved with but I came across a similar problem here.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/175510-attention-mods.html

 

Johnboy71:: That was a strange one for sure - it kept signing me in as FUE2014 and vice versa.....

It hasn't happened since.

The webmaster gave a lengthy reply and I did not understood a word of it ! :-)

 

 

Yes sometimes there may be such mistakes here.

A couple of weeks ago, David - TakingThePlunge -Forum-Co-Moderator posted using the alias / account KO. by mistake. 15 minutes later Bill deleted this post and made an explanation that even him did not understand the reasons for that and said this was just a mistake.

I hope Bill remember and admit this. I beleive also that was a mistake. And all those here is a big mistake probably. And this might be another reason for common ips.

Bill, I will respect all your judgment and decision. But, if you have decided already to suspend my account, please let me give one last chance (freedom of speech) to farewell.

Bill,

It was Sunday yesterday, and please first judge first, kill later, the judgment is continuining here,

The explanations from Longevita, lifeisbeautiful, trutfull is important here, (Mirko and Fisher did), we are all different guys. There is even enough proof for that now here.

OK it ihas been clear that I support Maral and I might be a little bit aggressive. But I frankly told I am a patient of Maral from Istanbul this is clear, (my first post in this forum stated that),

I cant be sure why I have had same ip with the other guys sometimes but I have a couple of ideas.

1- I know who (previous) MikroFue was, I used to visit him after I had my operation in the clinic (before he was fired lol), I might have posted a couple of things from his place back then, but I do not think this is the reason, that was long time ago.

2- Sometimes I use vpn programs (zenmate and others), Here in Turkey everyone uses vpn because otherwise you can not access to torrents or youtube, or twitter, (and some payed sites for entertainment lol) because of govern. block frequently . Anyone using same vpn have same set of ips. I guess this is why we may have same ips sometimes even with the other users such as longevita, lifeisbeautiful and fisherman who are maral haters unlike me, and this is nonsense.

3- Here our internet providers provide us only dynamic ips, they change everytime when modem resetted or using connections by mobile internet it changes from region to region. This is the same everyone in Turkey, so if having a dynamic ip is agains your rules, none from turkey can be in this forum. The same ips can be assigned to different people within the same region.. This is a low probability though..

These are my assumptions for sharing same IP sometimes with some users, but the real problem is your attitude toward me. Just check all users ips, when you check I am sure you will find many common ips, you are only looking at me thats why you have found these common ips or other so called anomalies. This is called selection bias. Do you think this is fair? If not I can provide you some group of posters names who are also under suspicion.

Hi Guys,

I have still login problems from my static IP, now I have connected again using IP changing programme,

(15 months result for NW3, under very bright sun as KO like)

I don't agree with this and I can't really understand the logic behind it. If I had 67 grafts per cm square I'd get 8040 hairs. Next guy comes in and has 80 grafts per cm square and 2.2 hairs per cm square and he gets a little over 10500 hairs, well over twenty percent more hair. Why should they pay the same?

 

 

OK, lets say 60cm2. strip contains 8040 hairs in the first, 10500 hairs in the second guy.

Yes, 4020 grafts in the first, and 4800 grafts in the second guy can be obtained by cutting.

Yes, they can pay the same (predetermined) price, because both graft numbers would be obtained from the same size of strips. The number of the grafts depends their donor density, second has more and got it. This is accurate cutting.

But, if the team wants, 5000 grafts can be cut from the first strip(guy) but 4000 grafts can be cut from the second strip (guy) That said, team always can adjust graft numbers regardless of strip hair density.

Yes, so I do not understand why do you need one more session??

BUSA,

Hımmm, to the poster who ask about Erdogan and Feriduni, I also said that Erdogans technicians has more experience than Feriduni's technicians and I recommend him.

Erdogan just opens incisions, do not have much communication with the patients. Maral has much more direct communication with his patients.

Maral is aesthetic plastic surgeon, erdogan is family practitioner.

Maral has legitimate licence for HT operations, Erdogan use another licence, and it does not protect him in case legal issues arise.

Anyway, I suppose both have the same control and power on their teams and controoling the patients.

We all learned from the patients that Erdogan has left the extraction to the technicians, he did not report this fact to forum moderators.

Both can not do advertising according to laws, but Erdogan does here, Maral cant.

What will happen when one of the Erdogan patient report here that his chief Technician Dilek begin to open incisions? Still respect to him but humiliate Maral

When I put all this to balance, Maral wins and should have the same respect as the others.

I just want fairplay,

Turkish Health Ministry regulations stipulate that hair transplantation may only be performed by aestetic plastic surgeons and dermatologic surgeons in Turkey.

Turkish Competition Authority, branch of Ministary of Custom and Trade also stipulate that advertising is strickly forbidden for legal clinics.

The silence from ASMED is deafening, and damning. (referred by PUPDady)

I recommend to make this thread out of public. (big penalty required)

I suspected this as he was very angry against Dr Ergdogan for some reason on my thread! It did give me cause for concern but then I quickly realised he was probably a troll. Now I see it is much worse, that he was actively misleading people, discrediting other surgeons and promoting his own employer... this is so unethical, it is beyond words

 

Great work Bill.. I hope that you email Dr Maral on behalf of this community and seek an explanation as to what happened here and create a public post for everyone so that they realise not to trust his posts.

Your idea/comment is wrong , I am just wanting fairplay here.

I posted this in the other threads where Bill has called out GraveD11gger/MikroFUE/Fisher4man/etc. for sharing IP addresses and likely being one and the same person or at least in league -- but I think it bears repeating:

 

If it turns out that GraveD11gger and MikroFUE are one and the same, or are in cahoots, I would not be at all surprised. (In fact, I seem to recall somewhere that GraveD11gger let slip once that he works or worked directly for The Maral Klnic.) From the outset of this blatant promotional campaign for The Maral Klinic, its representatives and shills have engaged in deception and misrepresentation. It began with the initial posts of "MikroFUE," who assured us that Dr. Maral was totally hands-on and personally performed every stage of the FUE ht surgeries at the clinic, with assistance of his technicians. To further convince us that it was Dr. Maral, and not his technicians, that performed the transplant surgeries, "MikroFUE" even went so far as to note that it would violate Turkey's medical-legal laws for anyone other than a licensed aesthetic surgeon such as Dr. Maral to perform ht surgery on patients. As we now know, Maral's supposed hands-on involvement was a total fabrication. When it was exposed that Dr. Maral took no hands-on part in the clinic's FUE transplants, "MikroFUE" changed course and asserted that Dr. Maral "supervised" the clinic's transplants. This supervision supposedly consisted of Dr. Maral briefly checking in on the multiple ht's being performed by his technicians each day, but then we learned from a patient that Dr. Maral wasn't even on the premises while that patient was still being operated on.

 

Don't be fooled. Technician-performed hair transplantation has nothing to do with the patient and everything to do with a clinic's owner maximizing profits by leveraging cheap labor to perform hair transplants. The discounted pricing he is able to charge for hair transplantation relative to expert ht surgeon-performed hair transplantation reflects a willingness to make money by flaunting rules and regulations, not altruism. The business model is low fixed cost (technician salaries) + volume: Run as many patients a day through the technician transplant mill as possible, give technicians motorized punches and motorized recipient incision tools to enable them to keep up the pace, and thus pocket healthy profits without having to get your hands dirty actually performing hair transplants. Brilliant! For the clinic's owner-physician, anyway, who can devote his time to other profitable pursuits while his technicians are drilling away on patients' scalps.

 

Bill, thank you for catching this apparent further deception by this clinic and its "advocates." We await GraveD11gger's explanation.

This is replica post here:

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/178341-potential-recommendation-dr-kapil-dua-india.html

lmao.... well, I guess all the Erdogan and Doganay hating all comes to light now from gravedigger and fisherman considering that is Maral's primary competition. that really makes me LOL..... nice work Bill.

You are hater of Maral, I am hater of erdogan, what is wrong with that? Ah, yes, erdogan pay for here, Maral does not:)

If PUP and you resing, promise I will resign from the forum.

The silence from GraveD11gger/MikroFUE/Fisher4man/etc. is deafening, and damning.

you crowed very early, how impatient whelp you are,

yourself and/or have a severe case of dissociative identity disorder (DID), I only think it's fair that you publicly explain yourself to this community since you've been publicly deceiving us for some time.

 

So what do you have to say for yourself?

Bill, I do not know if you are a psyciatrist to make this diagnosis, but this is the most insulting comment of all now, very disappointing it comes from a forum moderator, I hope you will provide me freedom of speech until the debate finish with all explanations.

I have seen now fisherman did his own, lets see Longevita, lifeisbeautiful, MikroFUE, trutfull,

Bill I seem to have a problem viewing the site. I can access and view this forum using my data plan but cannot using my wifi? I also have tried using my laptop to access the forum via wifi and it doesn't work. I can access using my data plan but I don't have much data left on my phone bill! Has my ip address been blocked or something?

I have had the same problem since I have received this message from the forum managers,

Recently, our discussion forum has been enhanced with new software to make it much faster. This includes the installation of robust software and "cloud" firewalls that helps keep out spammers and scammers. Thus, if you've had difficulty using our community or have been away for awhile, now would be a great time to come back. Simply visit Hair Restoration Research Forum - By and for Hair Loss Patients and sign in!

 

Ultimately, firewalls detect and block malicious activity that could slow down, damage or bring down our forum community. We've chosen a "cloud" environment because it provides us with access to such advanced software applications and high end networks of server computers that ultimately increase speed and minimize downtime.

 

I am now online using an IP changing program (directed to USA), I could not be online using my internet connection or even using by mobile connections.

For the last 2 weeks, I posted mostly using my home internet connection (I moved here 2 weeks before) and I think my Ip is stable and never shared by the names mentioned here.

My first massage clearly indicated that I am a patient of Maral and will post my result very soon. I am not working for him, but I am supporting and defending against attackers, this is not a secret, (if you call my actions as promotional? so check BUSA, and KO's posts.)

I will continue my posts to clarify this debate, but first I want to see the reactions of the posters mentioned here.

Here is the e-mail message that I posted Bill yesterday; (summarized)

Bill, I have login problems to the site today.

For the last 2 weeks, I am commonly online from my home, using static IP address, anyway at day time I am mostly online using mobile and sometimes electricity shutdown may change the dynamic IP address, I am never attempted to use any IP changing program, you know that.

I have seen the new thread you open, and will reply all, until this debate finish I hope and wish you will not suspend my account and let me discuss for all the facts. I will be more than happy to make it public. This is discussion forum, we should speak free as you stated many times before.

GraveD11gger

Dermatologic surgeon

Dr. Yaman,

Moron Grave is asking? You said you are a dermatologist (or dermatologic surgeon, the same certification in Turkey)

Could you provide your certification for that?

If you can not provide this, sorry but this will meant that you are saying lie to the people.

Just how long do you think a scam like that could last? At the end of the day he has very happy patients posting of their own accord. Not one let alone 100s of holy shit dr e messed me up posts. I could go on but the only relevant point you have is that it would in fact be more helpful to us (and ultimately him) to post dry dry or wet wet pre op. The only possible 'dark' answers are 1) the patients pics are all fake he hire or Photoshop 2) akt if people that didn't need transplants got 4k ones anyway

ready,

I (and all the other guys) just want this clinic be honest in their presentations and also put prop dry pictures, is this so difficult for them (to be honest)

annd then we also want them to be honest and accept that they are doing illegal business in Turkey, (familly practitioners can not do HT operations legally)

if they honestly accept the facts, then of course they may continue their business, anyway silence shows eveything,

People can get benefit from this illegal business, to get refundX10 but, if they want, this is good part for the guys.

So then where are the 100s of patients saying 'crap my hair looks the same after 5000 grafts as it did before? Go copy and paste the before wet and the before after. Should he be doing that? Sure.But given how many happy patients and patient experiences there have been, I think we can give him the benefit of the doubt that he does it to show extend of loss not to try to do mislead.

no of course, they just work for the patients good here.

Wet to wt pictures in the section wet pictures, OK then.

But wet preop, dry post op pictures on the section dry pictures. (inflating the result)

no preop dry pictures which will show much more original hairs over transplanted area than the wet pictures.

PROOF; The same postop pictures show: dry pictures shows much more hairs than the wet result, so the same for preops.

Cong, this ASMED clinic should win award of, "the most dishonest and non-transparent presentations of all.

But, only BUSA believe........

Another fact:

 

FUE does not work on everybody. In some patients we can tell that it is unlikely to work, however in some patients we only find out after we do an FUE test. What I mean by FUE test is actually starting the operation and doing 100-200 grafts to find out about the transection rate and the quality of grafts. If I find out that the results of the test are unfavourable, I stop the procedure. I recommend doing FUT or totally cancel the procedure.

 

 

This is just the possibility in African descent men with curly hairs.

Now better storage solutions may be used as for example Hypothermosol mixed with ATP to cope with ischaemia and energy demand. But these storage solutions ain't perfect, simple as that.

 

So I totally agree with you that it is better to opt for lower out of body times of the grafts. It makes total sense.

 

Keep on doing great work and good luck!

DR. Yaman,

How long can skin grafts be stored in a refrigerator in normal saline solution and can still survive after transplantation??

yes I agree. ignore the forum MORON gravedigger :

MODERATORS,

I know you are deleting insulting posts,

Will you delete this also??

I am here for the good of hair loss sufferers and just provide accurate information, if KO and BUSA can refute my opinions by the facts, welcome to them. But their behaviour now just show I am telling the truths.

Dr Yaman, please ignore the poster above.

But do not ignore the power of Health Authorities in Turkey... and power of actual hair loss sufferers you treat in case legal issues arise....

FUT operations must be charged honestly (for the good of the patients not for the own (economicall) good of doctors,

price X per cm2. of the strip (not for price X number of grafts)

The proofs:

The strip (after removed) contains constant number of hairs. Depending the hair density of the donor strip, this strip may give more or less hairs varying from person to person.

The FU means "hairs that making groups". FU can contain single,or 2 , 3 ,4 sometimes but rarely even 5- or 6 hairs.

Lets say 60 cm2 strip (30x2 cm) contained 10000 hairs. Graft harvesting team (technicians team of course:) may remove 3000 or 5000 grafts, but both graft numbers would still hold the same number of hairs (10000)

(in parctice, many hairs wasted during cutting process, the number of hairs at the end of cutting process is less than the beginning)

Attempting to remove more number of grafts do add nothing but carry all disadvantagous things; during cuıtiing process (a good number of) hair follicles) may be wasted or be damaged. More number of grafts with less average number of hairs provide less density and inferior result than the less number of grafts with good average number of hairs.

Docs. knows that facts, but still try to remove much more number of grafts from the strips just to increase the number of grafts, to give more price and / or to compete with the FUE.

Pricing for the dimension of the grafts is honest and also good for the surgeons. Surgeons wiould fell themselves free to cut the strip more accurately and honestly.

But hair loss sufferers should know that, (bigger) longer the strip means longer scar extending to the temples, and wider the strip means bearing more risk for larger scar or even no closure of the wound (will be left open to be healed by itself, as we know an example here)

60 cm2 strip is average (even large) and can provide around 3500-4000 grafts, and can close all the hair loss area for NW 1-4 (sometimes 5) hair losses.

Using a milimetric grid paper and measuring the size of the strip provide accurate, honest and reliable pricing for the patients.

Doctors must stop to rob the hair loss sufferers by using pricing per graft system for FUT,

Honest pricing system must be price x cm2 of strip, for example ...$$ for cm2 of strip, then patient and surgeon can decide (negotiate) together about the size of the strip to be necessary.

After this negotiation, hair loss sufferer will feel comfortable himself about pricing also doctor will do about the number of grafts. Honest and win and win system for both part.

Dermatologic surgeon

Dr. Yaman,your CV in your web site just say your are medical practtioner, but if you tell the truth, where did you complete your residency in dermatology? and could you provide your copy of certification that indicates your are a dermatologist (or dermatologic surgeon; the same)

NOTE to the unknown people: dermatologist or dermataologic surgeon is the same, some dermatologists do some minor surgical operations and called themselves as dermatolgic surgeons, they are dermatologists in fact. There is no such a surgical or medical branch as "dermatologic surgery"; all dermatologist can name themselves as a dermatologic surgeons. Anyway in Turkey Dermatologists can perform HT operations legally. Now, Dr. Yaman will prove his words I hope.

You arent wrong.-----The pics do show very little growth. I contacted the doc and he said that everything is looking normal for the current time postop. I felt I'd see a little more. I did take pics at month intervals and there is some improvement month to month but not enough to write home about. Guess waiting it all I can do!! Who knows-maybe I'll be the docs first bad outcome. ...Or maybe not. Keeping positive thought about the whole thing. I am in the medical profession myself and occasionally things don't go as wel plan. We do remedy them when it happens though but I'm not sure I wanna go through the whole process again.

I recommend you forget about your HT for the next 3 months, do not even check it monthly, just check 3 months later and compare if there is considerable progress after 6th mos, then you can decide better.

Please post new pict. 3 months later, we will wonder about you.

Erdogans techs. have much experience and hard working than Feriduni's, so prefer Erdogan and his team.