Alex11

5 minutes ago, Square1 said:

Maybe I am missing something here, but what is the point of research if the outcomes are being hidden?

The official paper for the pig trial is in peer review -stage, and has not been published yet. This is most likely the reason for the confidentiality of some details.

As far as I know, the dosages used in the Verteporfin studies at Stanford have not been published anywhere. Even in the detailed dissertation by Talbott (https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:rp239gf7751/Talbott HE Dissertation-augmented.pdf), only discussions concerning concentrations (e.g. 2 mg/mL) are being made, with no mentioning of volumes injected (i.e. the dosages).

You wrote: "This means we are very close to the optimal dosage. 0.4mg per cm2 is close to 2mg used for 5cm.". Could you please clarify the source for this claim.

On 10/16/2023 at 9:16 PM, sansi said:

So, in pig trial they used 2mg/ml, 4mg/ml and 8 mg/ml concentrations. 2mg showed the best results. This means we are very close to the optimal dosage. 0.4mg per cm2 is close to 2mg used for 5cm. The difference is that in pig  case the scar was linear and had no width. In fue the dosage is calculated for cm2. So I think it is worth to increase dosage to test the improvement, but the good news is we wouldn't need to increase it dramatically.

5 minutes ago, Hairgain said:

Any idea what caused your lichen planopilaris? I think I have this condition but none of the dermatologists/trichologists/hair transplant surgeons I've seen can find it. It's frustrating. Sometimes it's such a minor manifestation that they just don't notice it. If they can't find the spot(s) then to biopsy won't even be accurate. Often lichen planopilaris gets mistaken for androgenetic alopecia, seborrheic dermatitis or even hair parts. I'm so sick of dermatologists. I think most of them really don't know what they're looking at. I would probably only trust someone like Jeff Donovan. That guy knows scarring alopecia like no other! 

No. As you probably know, the causes of these abnormal autoimmune responses are generally unknown. Let's keep this thread focused on Dr. Barghouthi's trials. Feel free to contact me in private. 🙂

13 hours ago, Hairgain said:

 

 

Folks,

   I'm brand new here on Hair Restoration Network with an account (this is my first post) although I've been following this particular thread for months. 

   In terms of the ideas and comments you folks are relaying in my view are definitely on the right path. 

   So here's a bit of news from behind the scenes. I've been in discussion with Dr. Bargouthi about doing a scarring alopecia study. I was not the first either to suggest that according to him. There is another group or individual involved in this prospect. I tried contacting the email address Dr. Bargouthi gave me to collaborate but so far haven't heard back. I recall Dr. Bargouthi telling me that the cost of this study would be US $15,000 roughly. In this we are looking to do a study of microneedling with Verteporfin applied, another with incision wounding of an old scalp scar injecting Verteporfin into it. I will add that doing a microneedling and Verteporfin study of a scarred area too would also make sense, not just to an area which has been subjected to the effects of androgenetic alopecia.

  So this is another factor involved and perhaps a fundraiser can be done through this online forum to get the study to take place? I am trying to contact multiple hair loss web sites now to find out what can be done to raise the capital needed to get this underway. 

   Recently I have contacted someone at scarringalopecia.org about trying to fund the study mentioned above, maybe doing a fundraiser through their organization but surprisingly the reply to me was no interest on their end! They did a costly survey months ago about people having scarring alopecia but this is not even something that had potential to cure the problem. I kind of think this organization doesn't like me much because I am outside of the groupthink and offer suggestions to them that are not standard, outside of the orthodoxy they espouse in diagnosing and dealing with scarring alopecia. I am also male and the group is made up of nearly all women, so I feel especially alienated given this by them. Any advice they offer is from what I've found not the right approach but then I have nothing against them either and am glad they are a resource that helps people find local hair loss specialists and their web site shows pictures of what scarring alopecia conditions look like. They post medical articles too related to scarring hair loss but nothing that has the real prospect of a potential cure. I tell them about technologies in diagnosing hair loss that they never heard of and when I ask for their opinion about my findings they take note and don't reply. I feel they aren't doing as much as they could at least for me. They look to raise revenues but so far am not excited about their programs or research. 

  I believe I have scarring alopecia but no hair related professional has diagnosed me with it. So far they say I've got androgenetic alopecia, telogen effluvium, natural hair parting and early on it was seborrheic dermatitis (an early clue it really is potentially a scarring alopecia). I did not do a biopsy but have gone through many other non-invasive tests. I say no to biopsies as in all cases it leaves scarring, which is what I am looking to prevent. The only time I may consider it is if a YAP or FAK inhibitor is injected after the wound in that there is potential for it to heal with normal tissue and follicle unit neogenesis. Not only that but let's face it, a scalp biopsy hurts and maybe can lead to permanent nerve damage as with any hair transplant procedure done incorrectly. I've seen the results of people who've had scalp biopsies and are left with a big bald spot. I think a new standard protocol must be if a scalp biopsy is administered, Verteporfin must be applied to the wound or a FAK inhibitor such as VS-6062. 

  What is on my wish list is for Dr. Bargouthi to find a way to get the FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 tested in human subjects. The results shown in the red duroc pigs looked quite promising and as the video posted pointed out the healing process occurred quicker than with YAP inhibitor Verteporfin. I suspect but cannot prove that the VS-6062 may even grow more dense hair. The VS-6062 may have more pathways towards healing than Verteporfin. It is my opinion that use of VS-6062 is the better choice yet maybe harder to obtain.  

  Basically, in America, what has been holding the researchers back is approval to use this VS-6062 in human subjects. If it's worked in porcine models without issue then why not go on to test in human subjects next? How will we know if we don't try? It is these gatekeeping agencies like the FDA that are delaying and tying the hands behind the work these scientists are looking to accomplish through a slow and costly bureaucratic process. This should not be the case and the FDA needs to step aside regarding this and should a volunteer get hurt let the legal process sort this out. Almost as bad is many American doctors refuse to do safe procedures on patients unless the FDA has approved them first. I think the FDA needs to take on a much more passive roll as a body of suggestion rather than dictator of what is and isn't allowed. We need a libertarian design to get ahead regarding medical progress for people. Also mice are lousy test models for anything skin and hair related in regards to people. I and every hair loss sufferer is so sick of hearing that something regrew hair in mice because it never translates to working in humans. The new pre-clinical model should be the pig first, not the mouse or rat.

  It is at Stanford University, the Longacre Lab that pioneered the research behind Verteporfin and VS-6062. Here are the individuals behind the research: Dr. Michael T. Longaker's Profile | Stanford Profiles and Researchers find drug that enables healing without scarring | News Center | Stanford Medicine and please read FAK Inhibitors, Cassiopea and Drew Brees | Hair Loss Cure 2020.   

  Getting back to the VS-6062 compound, I've learned that it doesn't even need injection into the skin for it to work. Topically applied it seems to do the job. Although Verteporfin is a workable solution, the VS-6062 seems better, easier to use and perhaps more effective. It is my suggestion we go with this instead if it is possible to obtain from a reliable source. It would be great if Dr. Bargouthi could experiment with this FAK inhibitor, VS-6062 and compare the efficacy between the two. This is best as we will know which one has the preferred outcome. 

  Another avenue to explore is multi-therapy. Perhaps combining this with implanting cloned follicles may produce even greater hair coverage and density, that is assuming there is enough vascularity to accommodate the new hairs being introduced or perhaps the steps might have to be done separated by time to allow new blood vessels or capillaries to form. First say the wounding and drugs are used then a few months later cloned follicles can be added if density isn't quite satisfactory. 

  So I've composed many of my thoughts. I'd like the users of this group's input as we go forward with ideas behind Dr. Bargouthi's research. If perhaps enough have thoughtful or shared opinions it could be decisive in where Dr. Bargouthi will focus his energies and funding into future research. 

  Above all I am very appreciative of Dr. Bargouthi's research and outreach to the community of hair loss sufferers. He is someone that sadly few doctors today emulate. Most just follow the standard, the rules of the powers that be and simply want to make a comfortable living. The people/doctors/scientists though who contribute their time and funds to make positive change are the ones though who will be remembered, truly loved and that is people such as Dr. Bargouthi.  

   

Scarring alopecia trials would provide tremendous insight for both the fields of scar revisions and hair restoration. Diagnosed with lichen planopilaris (now inactive/burnt out), I'm closely following this development!

3 hours ago, DrTBarghouthi said:

Hi guys. I apologize for being out of the loop for the last while, but I had to cut down on my clinical duties temporarily and thankfully I’m back at it this month full time. I will be scheduling a biopsy of our patient and testing a full FUE case using adjusted doses that we worked out. Still some interest from some colleagues especially for FUT- so hopefully more on that soon. We are still dedicated to this research and in fact we have some interest from various funding entities that may be willing to further advance this and other projects. Will keep you updated. 

Thank you so much Dr Barghouthi for your effort - I'm so glad and relieved to hear from you again, and hope that you and your family are doing well. As someone suffering from scarring alopecia (lichen planopilaris), do you think it could be possible to achieve regrowth in scarred bald patches by performing e.g. FUE punches accompanied by Verteporfin injections in these areas, without actually transferring hair follicles from the donor area?