slowgrow

Try RU58841 if you can't use dut or fin. I've used fin for 3-4 years. Dut for couple years. Quit both due to sides and lack of progress. Now on RU58841 8% once per week with Kirkland 5% minox doing great.

6 hours ago, Follicle1984 said:

Still not had any sides on the RU mate?

No sir! Not one.

7 hours ago, Follicle1984 said:

Ah OK. Thanks very much for clearing that up.

Ugh fin sides suck! I'm experiencing similar sides currently on 0.25mg topical fin...which I am constantly trying to convince my self are likely nocebo, and of course very occasionally you may have a better day, but overall I do think the pattern is just not right and not something I can sustain or live with. Its just rather infuriating as the fin is definitely reducing hair shed. Part of me keeps wondering if the sides will go with time, as I know is mentioned to be the case with some.

I may just switch over to an androgen receptor antagonist and see what happens. 

Good to know topical dut at a low frequency did seem to work with fewer sides than fin. 

 

Ya man I don't know what it is about topical fin but I have a couple full bottles of minoxidil max that have fin in it and I'll never touch them

Is it allowed to say where? I found my source on Google seemed fairly easy to find and got it shipped quick to. 

Well I shouldn't say it didn't give me any sides. It did give me some but very little compared to fin. If RU wasn't doing its job completely or starts to lack I will add topical dut back into my regime but for now since I don't feel any sides what so ever with RU and the fact it is working amazing while taking trt I'll stick with it alone and minoxidil. 

My sides on fin was basically a useless penis. 0 desire for sex and horrid brand fog that made me moody.

Dut sides were subtle lack of desire for sex. Had no issues having it, but the desire wasn't there like it should be especially on trt.

RU58841 sides I haven't noticed any. Full desire and 0 brain fog or moodiness and my hair is doing amazing on it. 

So like I said if the RU starts to not work so well I'll add it back in but If I can avoid those sides 100% I will. Maybe some guys don't mind a penis with no interest in using it but that's not for me lol.

4 hours ago, Follicle1984 said:

Thanks for the information.🙂

Weird you got no sides from 2% and then got sides from 1%. I guess a few things could have been going on there. 2% is a very high dose btw. So is 1%. I wonder do you mean you used 0.2% (2mg/ml) or 0.1% (1mg/ml)?

How often would you use topical dut?

I think that's pretty important when it comes to sides. It seems mustang feels its only needed once every week or two. And dut mesotherapy can be effective with doses as low as 0.1mg every month or less. I have taken topical dut once and felt I would start out using it once every 4 or 5 weeks only. Ie using it once every half life. That way it can't be building ip in the body beyond the dose you take. A good way to dip one's toe in so to speak.

 

Yes I meant 0.2 and 0.1% my mistake. I was using it once every 2 weeks but for the last 10 months I started a regular weight lifting routine. It causes my body to produce more dht and t so I had to use it more often. Now I'm not saying topical dut doesn't work it certainly does and did for me. If I didn't lift weights or take trt which is testosterone replacement therapy then I probably would still be taking it. 

I wanted to bring up RU58841 on this forum for those that maybe finding topical dut isn't working for them or isn't enough it could be their follicles are sensitive to testosterone in the scalp as well and for that I suggest adding it along side dut see if it works. It is about finding the balance in the scalp and everyone's body is different.

53 minutes ago, Follicle1984 said:

Interesting. Glad you've found something that is working for you.

Did you try topical dut or oral dut? (I presume topical?).

Did you get any sides from topical dut? Why not continue it with RU if it wasn't given you sides? 

The only thing I would add (my theory) about sides and the time they take to go away. It's not just clearing the drug it's repairing any "damage" done by a period in said hormonal state. Androgen receptors perhaps needing upregulating. Fibrotic tissues in need of remodelling. Who knows. Just a theory. But, I think it may sometimes take longer than just clearing the drug from one's system. 

I used topical dut. Started out with 2% topical dut from minoxidil max. Had great results with 0 sides then they switched to 1% and it gave me sides and didn't seem nearly as effective. Then I tried fue clinic topical dut and honestly I liked their formulation and had minimal sides that I was ok dealing with but once I started trt I realized after reading that dut doesn't do anything to test in the scalp so I read and found out that RU works with that and gave it a shot and so far I'm very impressed. Never wanted to try oral dut after doing oral fin for as long as I did. DHT is powerful form of testosterone the male body needs and I didn't want to suppress that elsewhere. 

Just wanted to add that I've been a long term lurker on hairloss forums and been battling diffuse thinning for 20 years. If it wasn't from reading these places I'd be nw6 for sure but have maintained nw2-3. No hidden agenda just wanted to share experience.

5 hours ago, Follicle1984 said:

Hi Slowgrow

Thanks for your message. That's really interesting. I was concerned about the very long half life of dutasteride. I figured if the experiment goes wrong it could mess me up for a long time whilst I wait for it to clear my system. So I opted to re-try 0.25mg topical fin. Pretty sure I have experienced side effects again and it's not all nocebo. Very annoying as it has reduced shedding way down. I do wonder of the side effects may reduce with time. But I am considering topical androgen receptor antagonists instead. Pyrilutamide will be available soon (ish). 

May I ask what dose of RU you use and how long you've used it for?

I've heard people have great experiences with it and some still seem to get sides. Guess one will never know how they personally will react to something unless they try it for themselves.

When I used oral fin it was about 18 years ago and I tried topical fin mixed with minox about 3 years ago and it was instant sides. Not worth it at all and tossed it out. I'm using 50ml/day of RU and been on it for almost 3 weeks now. It literally makes the tight itchy scalp go away and my hair feel thicker and full of life. Best part is short half life so if you do experience sides which I don't it won't take weeks like fin will to go back to normal. Dut worked good for me until I got on trt, the added testosterone dut doesn't work for and RU works for all of it.

On 9/12/2022 at 9:24 PM, Mark Wolfer said:

Don't buy any topicals from @FUECLINICor angenica.com because you'll never get what you ordered. You'll get a lot of run around and excuses, and no product. That's been my experience now for more than six weeks since I made payment.

Dr. Mwamba and his clinic should be embarrassed.

I've gotten anything I've ordered from both of those places. To be honest they have been the best quality as well. 

On 9/5/2022 at 7:04 AM, Follicle1984 said:

The more I read, the more my belief is that the battle for hairloss should be fought at the follicle. 

I avoided 5ARs like the plague for about 10 years. I tried every natural approach imaginable over that time. I'm on TRT. Perhaps something slowed things slightly. Most likely nizoral shampoo and the periods I was on minoxidil had the greatest effect, really didn't see any decrease in shedding with other stuff. Most I class as a waste of money and or time.

I eventually took the plunge with finasteride as hairloss was really depressing me. I started topically at low doses and didn't notice much at all (side effect wise). I upped the dose feeling a little invicible. I learned the hard way the sides are real. I'm still unsure what may have happened if I kept the topical fin dose very low. But I'd read a lot of people have tried the "Mazarella" 0.005% BD approach and it still caused sides. Interesting the study indicated no one had sides there though. Would be interested in people's thoughts/experiences about this? (Ie very low dose fin...0.1mg per day). I know any lower is likely not efficacious. 

I think what is really interesting are the reports of dutasteride mesotherapy with super low frequency. I've read some get good effect with 0.1mg dut meso every 1-3 months. Surely, if this is the case, shouldn't we be trying topical dut at this kind of frequency? There are enough people here with either hard scientific evidence topical dut is going through the scalp (blood work or scalp DHT level reductions) or anecdotal and subjective reports (nipple sensitivity, ED, reduced libido), which I think have value also. I wonder if we could get similar results as the dut mesotherapy with topical dut application every month? And keep the serum DHT reductions even lower than those Mustang reports with weekly or biweekly applications? (About 20% I believe if I've read correctly?).

I now have some ethanolic topical dut at 0.05%. I am tempted to try a low dose every month. In truth, I'm just a little apprehensive, as the fin sides were horrible. I've just recovered after retrying oral fin 3 weeks ago. After 4 doses I stopped due to nipple pain. Things downstairs took 3 weeks to get going again. I am now finally convinced the fin sides are indeed real and it's not all just nocebo. Not saying that isn't an aspect that can occur too. I'm just know what's going on for me now. It's the long dutasteride half life that bothers me, as I would hate to have to wait months or even a year or more for recovery if it all goes wrong.

Also...I read a concerning study this morning about the potential longer term microstructural effects that can occur in tissues after periods of prolonged DHT reduction. Happy post it if people are interested. Granted it was a rat study. And doses may be higher. It showed however, that fibrosis occurred in the corpus cavernous with reduction in smooth muscle content. With shorter courses of dut, things largely reversed. Longer courses lead to changes which did not reverse. I grant it may not be fully applicable in humans, but it does seem a little concerning. It seems recovery on dutasteride if you get sides could just take a very long time. 

I definitely want to keep serum DHT level reductions to an absolute minimal.

Interested in people's thoughts on very low frequency topical dutasteride anyway? I apologise as I realise my post is a little long and rambling. Just nice to talk to people in the same boat tbh.

 

I see you are on trt. Topical dut works great for reducing DHT in the scalp but it does nothing for the testosterone in the scalp which also causes hair loss. When I started low dose trt I noticed my topical dut not working so well so I tried RU58841 since I read it works for every androgen and since I started ill never touch dut again. 0 sides with Ru and my hair feels great again while on trt.

I've used minoxidil forever and it's a must for every regimen. I've also used topical DUT for a long time but have stopped and have no plans on taking it again. I've noticed after being on topical DUT for 2 years that it was becoming increasingly harder to put on muscle and so I started low dose trt and that made me feel like my normal self again. The problem with trt is I had to used topical dut more but my hair was losing life.

So now I use RU58841 topical once a day with minoxidil and the results are way better! I honestly wished I tried RU58841 a long time ago. ZERO , NONE, ,nada for sides and it works for every androgen on the scalp. 

RU58841 + 5% minoxidil is the best side free combo there is. I also used oral fin for 3 years a long time ago and while it worked amazing i had to quit, the sides made it not worth it at all.