GUCCI

Dr Yaman's plan sounds interesting. Maybe @Dr Resul Yaman could explain more his plan about this case here. 

33 minutes ago, Marko said:

Nop nothing, I don't really want to take a medicine for baldness

You have an aggresive hair loss, and wihout any medical treatment your hair loss will progress. Your donor area looks weak and you have a huge recipient area. So no chances to achieve a decent result without any medicine in your case and with this aggressive hair loss. The best option you have is to shave your head and maybe try Scalp Micropigmentation. 

16 hours ago, baalloss said:

Warning – long post.

So, here’s a summary:

It’s 15 months since the op, and things haven’t worked out well. Quick-and-dirty review of the whole process :

Weeks leading up to the operation  – good (Scott was very responsive, providing quick answers, clear pre-op instructions etc)

Day of the surgery  - excellent (great doctor,  very pleasant, painless op, friendly staff, etc)

Post operation support - incredibly poor (no advice given, being fobbed off, manipulative actions, toxic)

 

Photos.

Here is the photo that sums up the result. The first is taken on the morning of the op; the middle one, an hour after the op, and the last one is in Jun ’21, 15 months later.

As you can see, things haven’t worked out. The reason is explained below.

 

 

The dream turns sour.

My very first post in this thread explains how I was very impressed with the things leading up to the operation and the day of the transplant itself. That was excellent, and this still stands, of course. However, in the months that followed, things took a turn. I started realising something was not right at the 6-month stage, but was trying to be patient, and it was at the 9 month mark that I came to a realisation that this is not working. (See photos above in post dated 09-Dec-20).

I was emotionally distraught, and wanted to know what could be the reason for this poor result so far. I hoped that the clinic would give me some ideas, advice, information etc. However, there was nothing – I mean literally NOTHING – not one piece of “Oh, it could be because of X or Y or Z….”. No explanation of why the growth was poor, what steps I can take to find out more, what the clinic has done in the past for other patients in this situation etc.  Instead, there was sugar-coating, refusal to accept that there was even a problem and re-assurances that all will be well by the 12 month mark, that I needed to have trust, and that the doctor will only look at my case after 12 months, and at that point, I will get a full assessment, a proper investigation, and we will work as a team to fix this, etc etc. All contact was with Scott. No access to/guidance from the doctor at all. This was all very well, and I totally get the 12 month timescale, but I desperately wanted to know the reason why my transplant wasn’t working, so I came on this forum and wrote the post mentioned above to ask the community here for advice. There was no criticism, no judgement, no blame in that post  -  just a simply request for information.

However, a few days after I posted that, I get a call from Scott and I am reprimanded on the phone for doing this. He mentioned that my post had resulted in the relationship becoming strained, and he also used words like “lawyer” and “court” – not sure if this was a subtle, veiled threat of legal action to frighten me. I brushed that aside, but was frustrated that the rep was not only giving me zero information, but he was now preventing me from getting information from others.

Now, I understand that clinics do not want patients with poor results to talk about it publicly. It’s not good for business. Fine. But as a very stressed patient, I needed to get some advice and since I was getting none from the clinic, I had to turn elsewhere.

This was in Dec ’20. The next 3 months were an emotional rollercoaster, and every day of waiting till my 12-month anniversary (3^rd Mar 2021) was agony. When March came, I sent off my photos to the clinic and looked forward to getting this resolved. A Skype video call was arranged, and the “full assessment” and “investigation”  that I had been promised all along, turned out to be nothing more than the doctor telling me to get a biopsy done and check for lichen plano polaris and frontal fibrosis. Why the doctor couldn’t have spent 5 minutes on the phone back in Dec and tell me this at that point, I do not know. There was no recommendation of which dermatologist to use, no visual examination over video, or any detailed discussion around the why, when, what, etc.

Okay, so I find a dermatologist (in Reading, UK), and have the biopsy done. It turns out I have lichen plano-polaris (LPP). Here’s an interesting back-story :

When I had the initial consultation with the doctor and Scott in London in Feb ’20, I specifically asked the doctor to check for LPP – the reason being that, prior to this, I had had a consultation with another doctor, who mentioned that he suspects that I have LPP and that whenever I have a transplant, I need to get this checked. Dr Lupanzula examined my head a second time, but couldn’t see find any evidence of LPP.

It would be easy to blame the doctor for not correctly diagnosing the presence of LPP, but I feel that that would be unfair as this can be a very elusive condition to diagnose, and I give Dr Lupanzula the benefit of the doubt.

I get the biopsy report from my derm and pass it onto Scott for him to forward to the doctor so that we could have another Skype chat and work out the next steps. I get a call from Scott and his tone is totally different. He’s clearly upset with me, and tells me that our relationship has broken down, and is not sure if he can help. Now, I made certain up till that point, that I did not update my review even though people were asking for it, in case I upset the clinic. However, in a moment of excitement, on another forum, a week or so prior to getting my derms report, I saw an incredible result from a Dr Bisanga patient and I posted I believe something like “Wow, what an amazing result – I wish I had gone to Dr B for my transplant as well”. (I made no mentioned of Dr Lupanzula/Medikemos.). It seems that Scott had seen that post, and maybe made a complaint about it to the owner of the site, who then edited my post to simply say “Oh wow, what a great result.” and messaged me to let me know. So, un-knowingly, I had re-awakened the wrath of the rep.

The phone conversation that followed with Scott was a very un-pleasant and heated one, where he was indirectly saying that he would not help me unless I went to the forums, apologised and wrote positive things about the clinic. Knowing full well that the only “help” I can expect from the clinic will be along the lines of “Get your LPP sorted out, and then come back for a transplant in a couple of years.” I told Scott that if he wanted to help me, then great, if not, then that is fine too, cos I do not play games. Quite frankly, I had grown tired of the constant reprimands, the false promises, the sugar-coating, and constant sales pitch about how amazing the clinic is, how awesome the doctor is and how many happy patients they have, and a lecture about the importance of “building trust”. Yeah, sure, that’s great, but all I wanted to know for the last 6 months was why my transplant had not been successful. How about just giving me some guidance and advice, like the people on the forums did? After 40 minutes, we end the call, and I honestly wanted nothing more doing.

But to his credit, a few days later, he did organise a Skype call between himself, me and the doctor. As expected, the doctor was very pleasant, but I have LPP and I understand that it’s up to me to get this sorted.

 

The whole post-operation “support” has been un-necessarily and frustratingly poor. Having an unsuccessful transplant is an emotional and very painful experience and on top of that, when the rep strings you along, reprimands you, is always in sales-mode and tries to coerce and manipulate you, it rubs salt into the wounds. Rather than help, he was a hindrance, and although Medikemos is a top-class outfit, the after-care made it feel like I was dealing with a second-class clinic in a 3^rd world country. This was purely due to the support rep I had to deal with, and I accept that a clinic shouldn’t be judged by the actions of an employee.

The positives.

-          In fairness, I feel that Dr Lupanzula is a fine doctor. He’s incredibly pleasant and likable, and knows his craft. The day of the operation really was a largely painless experience, and the doctor was involved throughout, even to the point of shaving my hair, taking photos etc. I felt well-looked after in the operating room.

-          The clinic seems to be a family business (I met two other immediate family members on the day of the operation) – and I really like that aspect. It gives it a personal touch and Medikemos is not a faceless, conveyor-belt outfit which just gets multiple clients in every day.

-          The staff on the day of the operation were very friendly and helpful. They even explained what they were doing under the microscope and invited me to have a look. I un-knowingly made them laugh with my loud snoring whilst they were doing the planting, as I had nodded off.

 

Who’s lost out?

We all have – myself, the doctor, the clinic. This whole debacle could have been handled so much better and with such little effort. And that’s the saddest part. It seems that the clinic has outsourced the post-operation support service to an employee, and whilst that makes sense, it comes with risk. Medikemos is probably not even aware of what’s been going on, or the consequences - I’ve got friends in real life who were thinking of a transplant with this clinic after I had mine, but now they will go elsewhere. There have been people PM-ing me online and they’re not too impressed either. Dr Lupanzula has spent decades learning his skill, and I respect and admire him for that, and I would not want him to lose out as a result of this incident.

It’s not un-common for companies to have most departments work very efficiently, but have one department that lets the side down. Or have an employee who is well-meaning but who is not quite in the right job, and uses practices which ultimately harm the company’s reputation. Unfortunately, from my position, the situation of Medikemos appears to be like that of a top-quality restaurant, which has a very highly skilled chef working away in the kitchen, but some customers are turning away cos the serving staff are letting the side down.

 

In summary, I wrote this not to look for an apology or explanation, or refund. Nor sympathy, nor to play the victim. Life goes on. I wrote this because one of THE most frustrating things in my research for a doctor was the sheer lack of negative reviews. To the point that, at our initial consultation, I remember saying to Scott “Surely, there MUST be people for whom a transplant hasn’t worked or the result is poor.” I had no idea that a year later “I” would be such a person. I realise now that there are lots of transplants that are not successful, and there’s a reason why you don’t see many negative reviews……but that’s the subject of another thread.

I posted this update in a hope that someone, somewhere will benefit from this experience. As odd as it seems, the clinic itself could also benefit in the long term.

I feel so bad about your bad experience with this specific clinic. That you had poor growth and did not get what you paid for and also that doctor did not treat you well in post operative process, like you said "the clinic would give me some ideas, advice, information etc. However, there was nothing – I mean literally NOTHING – not one piece of “Oh, it could be because of X or Y or Z….”. No explanation of why the growth was poor"

Every time a patient has a hair transplant with a specific clinic, an ethical doctor should check if the scalp is healthy or not before the hair transplant. And if its healthy then he proceeds to a hair transplant. Especially you should feel safe with a good doctor that he would check your scalp. Like you said he checked you scalp in your initial appointment and he did not mention anything about lichen planopilaris....!!! So that's his fault, not yours. You paid so much money to solve your problem and be happy and now you feel terribly and sad, spending your money for nothing....

Thank you for sharing with us your experience, this will help a lot of members to make the right choice. Of course clinics try to hide these reviews, but patients should post them to be present for everyone to see their bad experience with a specifil clinic. Thank you again and i hope you find a solution to your problem, as it is very unpleasant to have a failure in a hair transplant. Good luck mate !

I dont think it is the right choice to give up if you can't pay expensive doctors and clinics. You can get a good and decent result without spending all of your money.

The difference in price does not always mean that you wil get better result.  

There are some other clinics in Turkey, which have affordable budjet and you consider them like Dr Yaman, Bicer, Demirsoy, Turan. For repair work eugenix is also good, but they are pricey if you select the premium pachages, but there are trained doctors in eugenix clinics who are less expensive. Pekiner and HLC are also good, but their cost is 2.5 euro per graft.

Beard grafts are better than the chest grafts. Try to put more beard grafts, instead of chest grafts.

1 hour ago, gradina22 said:

So. I also discussed this very important topic with the team. 

They didnt really do these lines that you can see sometimes by certain doctors where it is stated: this region, this number, this region that number and so on. 

Dont get me wrong, they did the outline of hairline, tuft zone, midscalp and crown. 

As you can see from the pictures, my area was quite large. 

I said to doctor Sever that prior for my HT I was looking at some graft count inputs, like Shapiro medical group were they discuss how many grafts is needed for a certain area. 

I will also be chatting about this on 30 of June when someone from the team removes my staples and does a check up on what has happened. 

 

That said, team informed me that the overall plan was (you need to note that Laura did an estimate after the first day that I will have from 5500 to 6000 units) 

 

Hairline was 50+ in density

Midscalp 30+ grafts per cm2 - also to add that the lot of 3s and 4s were used in this area

Crown was around 30 grafts per cm2

You can check the prices at Hattingen web page. 

I did bleed a huge sum of money man

 

I can add that I wanted to be finnaly freed of my hair piece. 

I worked for 4 years to have this sum. It wasnt easy at all. Biggest thing I done in my life for sure

Ok mate, so your frontal part would be very dense, which needs the higher possible density to look good. You cannot have the same high density in each part, so the distribution was very good in your case to have the best possible result to adecuately cover all of this huge area. 

Can you show us some pictures with the strip in your donor to see clearly it more clearly and its position?

@gradina22Good luck with your fut procedure mate. all the best. So how many of the total grafts did you put in frontal third (1/3), on midscalp and crown? What was the price per graft? good number of hair/graft!

The result looks awesome. By the way, Do you have pre op photos with no shaved look on the top? How many grafts did you implant in each area? frontal third,midscalp, crown?

3 hours ago, Abhinay Singh said:

Norwood Grade 5. Hair Transplant results after 18 Months. @Eugenix Hair Sciences

 

 

The prices in america are extremely high. Just go to Europe mate. Preferably in Spain, or Turkey in some clinics.

yes it would be helpful to see how the face looks after beard extraction. What size of punch should be used to have small scars?

The question is if a new transplanted graft is implanted in the position of a weak hair folicle, will this affect in any way the survival rate of the new graft?

Because then there will be 2 grafts in the same position (one the new transplanted and one the weak native follicle). Probably the weak hair follicle will be dead after this and the new graft will normally survive.

Some clinics say they do not implant direcly in the position of a weak native follicle but very close to it, while other clinics say there is no problem to implant the new graft directly in the position of the weak native follicle. But if you implant very close to a native weak follicle, there will be many chances of shock loss to the native one.

Huge difference. Very good result. Does he take any medical treatment to prevent shock loss?

1 hour ago, 1needhair said:

After speaking to Eugenix for the last few days I think they are my preferred clinic. Their results are amazing. I just need to decide on a package and dates 

what's eugenix hair sciences plan about your case? also how much do they charge per graft?

the best way to go off medicine is to slowly low the dose per month. You should not go off very quikly but slowly lowing the dose as the time goes until you stop it permanently. But the question is why you want to stop finasteride? Do you have side effects? why dont u just keep it very few times a week? Like 2 mg a week?

What area of your scalp you want to cover with beard grafts?

watch this video. this guy got about 8000 beard grafts to cover his scalp !!!

How is your beard ? upload us a photo of your scalp donor and beard as well.

1 hour ago, Bailey99 said:

You are correct I likely did not have full growth rate of grafts but again I'm only 7 months post procedure 1 so it is still early days. 

Yes of course you did not have full survival rate. Most people get their max growth until month 7, after this month the hair just get thicker. What did the doc say about the result of the first procedure? How much money did u pay per graft?

7 minutes ago, 1needhair said:

 

Surgery is to take place over 2 days but nothing is mentioned about a 2nd surgery later on. He did say this 

“Also we should not go over the top and put too much hair in case you have further hair loss in the future”

 

I forgot to mention, my dad and grandad both are a Norwood 7. I think I’m a Norwood 5/6 currently 

You can ask them about the crown if they can cover it as well with your remaining grafts on your donor.

On 5/27/2021 at 9:56 PM, Bailey99 said:

Hey all, sorry been very busy with work, the 6 months has flown by. Latest pics attached. I can't notice much difference from a month or so ago when looking at the photos but do see it when looking straight on in a mirror. Very happy with the progress, it will be interesting to see how it finishes out. Considering my starting point, my main goal was coverage, a bit of density would be a bonus. 

My planned surgery in May couldn't go ahead die to Covid but I have another slot pencilled in for this day two weeks. So far everything looks to be going to plan even if its not straight forward - No direct flights between Ireland and Belgium so have to fly to England from Belfast and then get the Eurostar on from there. 

 

On your first procedure it seems like you did not have full growth of grafts.With 3000 grafts your frontal part shoud be much better than this, so you did no get maximum survival rate. I hope your second procedure goes better than your first one. Good luck with your second procedure mate.

1 hour ago, 1needhair said:

I’ve updated the list on page 1, Mwamba and Lorenzo have been in touch so I will update the list later this week once they get back to me. 

This is from HDC. I don’t think I’d be happy with that to be honest.. maybe have the hair line slightly higher up so more can be covered at the back?

What about the plan of HDC for the crown? did they say anything or they just focus on front part? 

HLC does manual FUE as far as i know, so they really take care of the donor. Be patient and wait the recovery of your donor.

Eugenix hair sciences are specialists in transplating beard hair . They can extract and transplant really big numbers of hair follicles. 

So you covered front half of your scalp, which is about 87 cm^2? How many cm^2 left for the rest of midscalp and crown to cover on next procedure? 

Excellent result ! Congrats @Dr Resul Yaman. Can you describe us the distribution of grafts on his scalp? How many grafts on frontal third, miscalp and crown? 

3 minutes ago, 1needhair said:

“about 4000-4500 Grafts for the hairline. With this amount, we can rebuild the hairline and close the temples. We will also give to the front half area more density.”

They said I’ll need a 2nd surgery for the crown 6-12 months later but the scalp donor area will not be enough and body/beard hair will be needed 

ask them how many grafts will remain in my donor if i put 4000-4500 grafts for front part now? How many beard grafts can they extract?

HLC said you about 4000-4500 for which part? only front ?