ShavedDethMonk

Hi Azza,

I agree with those that say what an improvement your situation has come from pre-op. You being a NW5 there was likely never a chance of having a thick frontal third once transplanted. Lets face it NW5 and 6s use HT to give an illusion of coverage and actually dont have thick heads of haif on top, so I think what you have achieved is quite good.

Having said that Bill, our associate publisher, has a dense looking top but then again he has pumped out 7000+ grafts on top so you would have to add more grafts to get that level of density. And that is more committment. Perhaps you should enjoy what you have for now and wait 4-5 years before you put yourself through more of the same as it must be wearing on you mentally ... you probably just need a break and to enjoy life rather than be concentrating on your hair.

Best to you.

SDM

Hair Greedy,

Hey man, Im no expert but I think the drawn line looks good. What is your family history for male pattern baldness? This may help you see what you may have in store for you.

I am 31 and hae similar recession, perhaps I have a bit more in the temporal region. My family history does not have aggressive hair loss and I am currently scheduled for 3000 grafts for the same area you have shown unless my surgeon decides to reduce that amount after an in person consultation as it has only been online.

Perhaps your surgeons can give you an idea as to how dense a 1500 graft vs 2000 graft session may give in that area. People tend to complain about a lack of density in their hair transplants rather than too much density.

SDM

Originally posted by Sparky:

im thinking 1500-2000 but im sure some will disagree with me.

Theres no way to know this. Only the surgeon can know by reviewing his surgical notes as to what density was attempted and count a sample of 1 cm square regions to estimate his growth. From a picture we can not know his head size and definately can not tell grafts counte from low quality or even high quality pictures.

I think ZAZ should go in for a consulation from Dr. Mohamed to check out the growth at 12-18 months and than see what he needs to do to get where he wants to be with his hair density.

SDM

Hey Freakin,

I sense your disappointment however if you really listen to what Adrian and Billeroc are saying is that they wish to help rectify the problem, so you can probably let down your guard and let them help you to get rid of your frustrations. Dr. Rahal and his clinic seem like a 'stand up' organization with the patient as their primary concern so take their advice and revisit them with an open mind and calmed nerves ... everything will work out buddy if you dont try to escalate the situation with further negative talk and accusations. If you just realize that it doesnt matter who did what and who said this you can concentrate on a solution rather than non-constructive finger pointing.

Good luck on your hair plan.

SDM

Originally posted by Yomommyz:

guys thank you!@# Very appreciative..

 

My answer is..I will definitely stick with Propecia for two years no matter what, (Probably five years) Unless something crazy happens..

 

I think with propecia the worst thing that can happen is the erection thing..

 

You guys been taking it longer than any one i know.. Is it a problem with your wife's..Are they happY as well as you..?

 

Just curious as to if the choice really is ..Your penis or your hair!!

 

yomommyz

Its definately the wife ! We had sex once a week and it was o.k but due to other issues in the relationship (namely her control issues) we got seperated. Now I have a girl friend and we are having sex 4-7 times each weekend and Ive been taking 1/4 tab Proscar M-W-F through out my marriage and now my relationship to my girlfriend as I wait for the divorce papers ...

... definately the wife and not the proscar/penis.

SDM

Severn: I believe he is having a HT for his frontal region and stated that the coalition docs commented on his crown while having his consultation ... so he is not having his crown addressed at this time.

Ronald: Ive always read how the crown is the "Black Hole for grafts" in that it takes a lot of grafts to cover up the damn thing. Hopefully things wont proceed much further with meds for couple of decades.

SDM

Take a look at my thread. There is a nice post by Dr. Shapiro about how to gauge whether cardio may have an impact on scar stretching.

http://hair-restoration-info.c...66060861/m/385104224

SDM

Thanks for all the replies and interest in my thread.

Dr Shapiro: Thanks for the healing process description Dr. Shapiro, that was very informative and makes me realize why the I should take it easy for as long as recommended.

FingersCrossed: Hey, if you, a competitive bodybuilder, can take the time off than I as a amateur hobby bodybuilder can take the time off too

I agree with everyone on here. Your options at your young age are:

1) Start to like what you look like. Very few of us look like movie stars. Besides your a decent looking kid, add some personality, a part time job to make some money to take chicks out on dates and you'll be better off with the ladies than some a$$hole kid with a low hair line.

2) Shave it. You said you dont like it but give it a try next summer.

3) Wear a hat, beanie, bandana, Do-rag ... what have you. I see plenty of kids who always wear a hat. It kind of flattens hair out more so it looks worse when you take it off but it might hide your hair for the necessary 14 years until you are more eligible for a hair transplant.

Some rough advice but like Bill said ... you asked for advice ans we gave it ... we never said you'd like our advice

SDM

Relax man .... stress will cause you more hair loss Now that you are post op you are alot more sensitive to changes in your scalp and hair. As you must have heard before shedding is normal for most individuals post op furthermore we all shed 100 or so hairs daily anyway ... you are just noticing it more now because you are looking for miniscule changes in your head now.

Things will get better ... there is nothing you can do besides keep taking your meds, add rogaine as instructed by your MD 2 weeks post op and dont pay too much attention to your head for the first 3-4 months or you'll drive yourself crazy ..... running your hand through your head for 30 minutes !?!? wow ... drink a beer and sit back, listen to some music.

SDM

My procedure is booked for Dec 14th 2009 with Dr. Rahal. I was told not to engage in physical activity for 1 month post-op.

Im not sure how to do this ... I work out 4-5x/week. I take about 1 week a year off maximum. I recently went through a seperation with my wife and despite all the stress and collapse in my life because of this I only took a week off during all of the marital ruin as I escaped from a very controlling woman. Exercise has been and is a form of stress relief/ therapy.

If there are any other exercise fanatics out there how have you dealt with this ?

I can only imagine some answers from some forum posters ..... Step 1: sit on couch, Step 2: open bag of chips Step 3: turn on TV Step 4: eat chips ......... LOL.

Besides my high intensity weight training, which will have to be put on the burner for a while, I do walk 10 km on weekends with jogging during the weekdays ... Ill have to do the 10 km walk several times a week or something.

Thanks ahead of time for your suggestions.

SDM

My procedure is booked for Dec 14th 2009 with Dr. Rahal. I was told not to engage in physical activity for 1 month post-op.

Im not sure how to do this ... I work out 4-5x/week. I take about 1 week a year off maximum. I recently went through a seperation with my wife and despite all the stress and collapse in my life because of this I only took a week off during all of the marital ruin as I escaped from a very controlling woman. Exercise has been and is a form of stress relief/ therapy.

If there are any other exercise fanatics out there how have you dealt with this ?

I can only imagine some answers from some forum posters ..... Step 1: sit on couch, Step 2: open bag of chips Step 3: turn on TV Step 4: eat chips ......... LOL.

Besides my high intensity weight training, which will have to be put on the burner for a while, I do walk 10 km on weekends with jogging during the weekdays ... Ill have to do the 10 km walk several times a week or something.

Thanks ahead of time for your suggestions.

SDM

Originally posted by aaron1234:

Excellent! That's a great illusion of density.

I would say he has density not only an illusion. I agree though it looks great.

SDM

I think you are misinterpretting the % there ... finasteride has been shown to reduce DHT levels by 60% or so while Dutasteride has been shown to reduce it by 90% give or take in the test subjects. This does not necessariyly correlate with how much hair it maintains (i.e. 60% of hair that would have otherwise been lost vs 90%).

Likely you will still lose hair as time elapses regardless of medications but perhaps at a slower pace. When you look at the graphs of people taking fin. they still lose hair after 5 years though at a slower rate so it is not a cure for what your hair is genetically programmed to do.

SDM

Looks good! For my own selfish reasons I'm actually glad to see that Rahal is doing some aggressive transplants on younger patients who request it because at 30 years of age I was going to ask for a fairly aggressive hairline and was concerned he would say

'No you are too young' but obviously he is not against doing them, likely with ample warning and future planning given one's familial history.

SDM

Originally posted by biscuit:

Like I said, it's a complicated issue. On one side you have fear mongering, on the other side you have marketing hype from billion dollar corporations who want you to use their product for the rest of your life. Somewhere in between is reality, it's up to each individual to weigh the benefits/risks and determine their priorities.

 

Spex, regarding reproductive complications, I'm talking about limiting risks. Being a parent myself, I would do anything possible to reduce the chance of a birth defect. No smoking, no drinking, no drugs. Hairloss medications are serious drugs that affect your entire body from head to toe. The majority of the research and studies on propecia/finasteride were done on people well past child-bearing age, which is fine because it was developed to treat enlarged prostates in older men. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they've determined that it poses no risk to young men starting families. I'd like to see more studies on young men, and more studies on drug interaction, but that probably won't happen because they've already met the requirements for approval. A lot of people assume that since it's approved it's safe.

Hi Biscuit,

I agree that the reality is somewhere in the middle. And as a person ready to start my family I will find out first hand whether it has affected my fertility or not

Originally posted by Uk_lad:

shaveddeathmonk, so are you taking 1.25mg fin /1mg proprecia every two days now, obviously if it works the same, can only be better to take less of the medication, as i suspect their would be less chance of side effects!

Uklad: For 2 years now I have been taking 1 mg Propecia and recently (within the last 3 weeks) switched to 1.25 mg Proscar (now I have it covered by my drug plan ). I only really reviewed the site that Biscuit linked today and than I did a literature search on PubMed on the pharmokinetics of finasteride and only found one other article (from 1999) confirming that lowering of DHT lasts much longer than the half life of the drug so I think I will start tommorow by SKIPPING my 1.25 mg dose. If you look at the chart:

http://www.propeciahelp.com/fo...viewtopic.php?t=1170

DHT does not rise much on day three, not having taken finasteride since day one. I believe that I doubt that the ever so slight increase in DHT from day 2 to 3 would have a real world difference in my hair while allowing me to effectively cut the amount of drugs I put into my body by HALF!! which I think is a valuable trade off ... though I am not experiencing any side effects I still think it is a worthy action to take.

Originally posted by biscuit:

Prior to my HT I made the decision that I was not going to take meds. Dr Wong took that into consideration when placing the grafts. If I had decided to take meds he would have placed fewer grafts in my crown, those grafts would have gone up front.

 

My "success" case is not that common. I'm lucky that I have super strong donor hair at 50 years old. I can easily get 4,000 more grafts if I need them. I had already lost most of the hair on the front of my head, so meds wouldn't have helped much for me.

 

Most doctors will recommend that you take meds. It's a no-lose situation for them. If the meds work everyone is happy. If you get side effects they tell you to stop taking them. If you get long term side effects it's the med manufacturer that takes the heat.

 

The med manufacturers say the numbers of problem cases are very small. Lots of people are happy with the results and experience no side effects. Search the forums for success cases and see if your hairloss pattern is similar.

 

But there are people who have had short term and long term problems. Spend some time reading forums like this one and http://www.propeciahelp.com/forum/ and do a google search for "propecia side effects". Read the manufacturers claims and warnings carefully.

 

Other factors worth researching:

 

Blood testing. If you decide to take meds you should have frequent blood analysis to make sure your levels are correct. Get a baseline test before you start taking anything so you have something to compare.

 

Drug interaction. If you take meds other than for hairloss you should do some research to find drug interaction studies.

 

Long term immunity to the drugs. It's not uncommon for people to lose the benefits of the meds after around 5 years. If you have banked on the hairloss drugs lasting forever you will need to alter your strategy.

 

Lifetime commitment. If you ever decide to stop taking the hairloss meds you will quickly lose everything that you gained. Ask yourself how commited you will be at 40/50/60/70/80 etc. What is the likelyhood that you will continue to take hairloss meds if you develop a serious medical condition (heart problem, etc) and the doctor recommends that you stop taking the hairloss meds?

 

Family planning. If you are going to be starting a family soon, do some extra research on reproduction complications.

 

It's a complicated decision. Take your time. Do a lot of research and make your own decision.

 

- - -

 

Disclaimer: I'm not against drugs. I have no problem with anyone else taking hairloss drugs. I hope everyone that takes them has success and no side effects. I am not a doctor. Most of what I write is my opinion, not scientific facts. I decided to not take hairloss drugs for my own personal reasons that apply to my case. I understand that other people have their own goals, and they're entitled to make their own decision.

The site is worthy for the collection of studies related to Finasteride, however I have serius problems with the bias on the site and the constant misinterpretation of the information. Most of the comments are of forum members struggling to understand what the research means.

I have taken graduate courses in critically appraising medical literature and there is a total lack of such on that forum. People are acccumulating all studies that have potentially 'negative' effects highlighted. One study sticky showed an increase in HDL-C (High Density Lipoprotein - Cholesterol) and the posters were freaking out that it would affect their hearts. Obviously the forum members who commented didnt realize that an increased HDL-C is actually beneficial to heart health while LDL-C, Triglycerides are not helpful.

Another sticky lists the % of side effects from an undisclosed dosage of the drug. Most likely it was 5 mg which people dont take for MPB, additionally they did not compare the % of side effects to placebo nor any confidence intervals or p-values to show whether these percentages were significant.

I did find the study useful of the concentration of DHT after a single dosage (varying dosage) of finasteride which will allow me to now calmly take one dosage every two days; though I will look to see if I can find any other academic articles to support this.

For these studies many things need to be looked at: Is this study well designed. What are the number of subjects. Are the subjects similar to me. What have other similar studies said, do they contradict or agree. Does a certain percantage decrease in a physiological parameter have a real world effect on me (10% change in some parameter may not mean anything to the whole organism, whether it be rat or human). Was the study done on humans or rats, we are not rats so you can not blindly apply results to humans. There are way too many factors like that .........

so if you are not familiar wirh critically appraising scientific literature (study design, confidence intervals, significance values, validity) I would freak out over the biased presentation of data from that forum.

I am not a propecia or proscar rep. or lobbyist but rather trying to stop fear mongering by using scientific literature in a pseudo-science quack arguement way.

SDM

Im not sure if people caught you were 34 NOT 24. Your side profile looks strong it still looks lke you have nice density in the forelock region.

I think if you go with a more aggressive hairline you need to be willing to have additional procedures in the future as your hair loss progresses. If you have your heart set on one procedure than a conservative hairline is a wiser path.

The positives are that:

1)you are only 4 months and 3 weeks so you have another 7-8 months of growth to go.

2) The scaring is probably temporary bumps rather than permanent scars.

3) There are small hairs growing out that can be seen in the larger picture you posted so that these will help to fill in that sparser area.

I am in agreement with ShadowoftheEmpire, make peace with your hair and SHAVE IT.

Shave your head, go to the gym and act confident ... that will get you further than having a comb over at 27 years of age after a hair transplant and the remainder of your hair behind it falling out. You will look far better with the shaved head rather than having your head all scarred up from having 5 hair transplants in the 10 years chasing your hair recession as it progresses fast backwards.

If you are not prepared to go through the surgeries and money investment that the moderator Bill has gone through than I wouldnt bother with a HT. Likely you will need to invest 40,000$ chasing your hairline for the next 10-15 years.

SDM

I have been using my credit card to make payments on my account as the procedure approachs. As TheEmperor mentioned you can pay off your credit card immediately after making the payment by transfering money from your savings/chequing account to your credit card. Its simple and you still get some buyer protection with a credit card.

I find this the easiest and can be done over the phone with one of the receptionists. Each time I have done this they send me a reciept and account balance to keep me updated as to how my payments are coming along.

SDM

Nice clear pictures. I noticed that the H & W proposed hairline is the most conservative with the frontal region restoration. It looks like you went in for a in person consultation as it was the only one that had marker on your actual head. I wonder if they know something about your future loss that the other clinics that the others dont (i.e. evidence of more hair minaturziation) and went more conservative.

My personal favorite is that from the Shapiro group. I like the lowered hairline ... only because that is what is bothering me about my hairline .. the "high forehead".

From reading posts for the past year or so it sounds like the three doctors you are considering are well regarded on the forum and would all make fine choices, though admittedly I have no experience with any of them.

SDM

Looking Good Buba!! Indeed the sides are starting to fill in. Should only get better and better here on in.

Still 7.5 months until my procedure ... ugh ... oh well Ive only saved up 1/3 of the procedure so I actually do need the remainder of the time to save up for all of it so as much as I would like to have it tommorow I will need the time for a few more bank heists ... I mean more work

SDM

Originally posted by Abedogg:

Here are the best pics I could get. This is from the same pic. I just cropped a small section and enlarged it in the second photo.

 

Looking at this up close it looks like growth to me. I never had any native hair in these areas. This is from my right side.

 

Dan

DAMN that picture is SUPER close indeed ... did you attach a camera to your microscope