rjnebbo

Originally posted by chan123:

Guys,

 

Wanted to know why swelling occurs after a HT in forehead and 'around the eyes' and what to do to prevent that?

 

Thanks/Chan

Besides the saline, which is minimal, your head swells due to the trama incurred, remember each follicle gets a incision, as such your body is reacting to this trama and fluid is the transport system to healing.

Minimize the selling by using compression... meaning get a Ace type bandage and wrap this around the sides of your head and forehead area. then use ICE on your forehead and bridge of nose area between eyes. Alternating twenty minutes on and off for at least 48 hours. When sleeping just keep the ACE bandage on, then ice in the morning. After 3 days you should be good.

For pre and post op I used this:

Make Me Heal Plastic Surgery Healing Multinutrient Kit (Pre & Post-Op Formulas)

http://www.makemeheal.com/mmh/product.do?id=13511

Also take MSM and a good Multivitamin and eat a healthy diet, moderate exercise...

Originally posted by Scorpian:

I know this has been mentioned before, but is it safe to workout 4 weeks post op without putting the receipient area at risk? Is blood flow an issue? Could this theoretically tamper with the graft survival rate?

I took TWO weeks off from exercise, I run and lift.

Then I eased back into it, listening to what my body was telling me. BE very careful if you do setups as you do not want to stretch the donor area scar! I do setups and I do not put my hands behind my head (never do anyway, but some do) and keep you head straight or back, just so you do not bend your head towards your chest as this will stretch the donor scar, use common sense....on any exercise that may cause you to do this.

Originally posted by Scorpian:

What kind of vitamins and minerals do you think are important post op

I used this product BOTH Pre and Post op...

Make Me Heal Plastic Surgery Healing Multinutrient Kit (Pre & Post-Op Formulas)

http://www.makemeheal.com/mmh/product.do?id=13511

I had great results with my transplant. However how is one to know what would have happened if I did not use the product? the $60 was worth the peace of mind. Also the better overall health you are in and how you treat your body, smoking, alcohol, caffeine etc. the better your results will be.

Agreed.... Continue taking the meds!

Here is an update of my results since my surgery date of 12/29/08 with Dr. Ken Siporin in CA. I wanted to take some pics at the 90 day mark but got busy and I also just tried to forget about it, as I was always checking it out in the mirror LOL....

Overall I am VERY pleased with the results so far! Finally cut my hair last week to match better.

I have been using the Rogaine liquid Costco generic brand religiously in the morning and again at night. Tried the Foam as well, either one was fine for me, the Liquid seemed easier for me though, maybe due to the fact my hair is already wet when I use it

On 1/11/09 I also started taking Proscar and smashing the 5mg tablets into powder and took .50mg for the first 30 days then I went up to .75mg for 60 days, and now I am cutting the tablets into 4 quarters, so I am at 1.25mg daily. I did it this way to be sure I had no side effects, and I will say that not only did I NOT have side effects, I would argue to say that it has actually helped my "member" perform better .

I also have been using Folligen Solution Therapy Spray diluted 100% (1to1 ratio) with Georges 100% Aloe Vera liquid and spray this on my scalp after a few minutes after I apply the Rogaine. ProCyte is just to expensive and Folligen is just as good.

Note: I always applied the Rogaine AFTER i wet my hair first, this seems to work well for me and then style my hair (comb), then brush my teeth then apply the Folligen spray (morning ritual) in the evening I would shower, apply Roagine, then shave, then apply the Folligen spray.

Supplements for the first 120 days:

MSM 1gram, 3times daily

Good daily Multivitamin

Other:

Make Me Heal Plastic Surgery Healing Multinutrient Kit (Pre & Post-Op Formulas)

Shampoo for first 120 days: I used the Folligen shampoo and conditioner (I don't like the Folligen conditioner) but I believe in the copper peptides and consider it important, ProCyte GraftCyte Post surgical shampoo and conditioner is another more expensive brand to use. I now use Pantene Pro V Volume Conditioner. I now will be using both Revita or Nioxin shampoo and occasional Nizoral with 1% Ketoconazole from time to time.

I think I got everything, but I may have forgotten something?

Hope this helps someone else.

The Liquid is Identical as the Patent ran out which is just one reason why they developed the FOAM (to keep that share of the market) Just like Dow lost there patent with R12 freon they pushed for the new R134a as that is their baby as well. Global warming, yeah right, politics baby!

I have been taking Finasteride now for about two months now with NO SIDE EFFECTS. In fact my Libido has been better and with stronger erections, and this is with the original thought that the opposite would happen! Call me an exception I don't know; but I have yet to experience and other side effects I have read about.

Seriously? .... First of all those enlargement pills are a joke and do not work, they are at best a expensive nutrient supplement pill. Personally I wouldn't waste your money on them. As far as the Finasteride blocking testosterone, it actually blocks DHT. Finasteride is a synthetic antiandrogen which acts by inhibiting type II 5-alpha reductase, the enzyme that converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT), So your T levels would be fine .

I will tell you that I have been taking Finasteride now for about two months now with NO SIDE EFFECTS. In fact my Libido has been better and with stronger erections, and this is with the original thought that the opposite would happen! Call me an exception I don't know; but I have yet to experience and other side effects I have read about, total BS... things are better than ever for this 47 year old

Man the Bad Rap Hype Finasteride (Propecia / Proscar) is getting can psychologically cause more problems if you let it. I was concerned at first reading this bunk and I will tell you that I have been taking Finasteride now for about two months now and started out with .50mg and now at .75mg daily with NO SIDE EFFECTS. In fact I will say that my Libido has been better and with stronger erections, and this is with the original thought that the opposite would happen! Call me an exception I don't know; but I have yet to experience that "Dry" ejaculate and other side effects I have read about, BS... I am 47 and things are better than ever

I would say that yes, malnutrition would have some sort of effect on hair loss, as I remember reading somewhere about the effects of fatty tissue actually being good (in the scalp) as it helps feed the follicles or something to that effect.

However this doesn't mean that eating fast food is good for your hair. It has to do with balance and moderation. Even too much of a "good" thing is bad. 2-3 grams a day of MSM has been discussed with the growth and helping with hair loss here on the forum.

Exercise will help with overall health and still moderation can't be emphasized enough. Going for those geriatric health walks do worlds of good

Find yourself a good multivitamin like "Centrum" or at least one that has the same ingredients. This along with MSM, should be adequate for most.

Then go for a walk, but not to get fast food

I do not recc bumping up your dosage, unless that dosage was UNDER 1mg, then you should discuss this with your physician. I gave an analogy of Liver metabolism in this dosage thread, located here:

http://hair-restoration-info.c...566060861/m/83710318

I think I get your point, but it think this would have to do with your Liver metabolizing the Finasteride completely to block DHT. Since it takes only .2mg amount to block the DHT, the excess amount is what causes the problems. The problem is finding out per person what that "sweet spot" is, this is why they do these studies to find out, thus the reason why some have side effects, however these people should be the minority, which Merck claims to be 1.8%. I think this number may be much higher.

Which bring me to think of this analogy...

Why is it bad to mix medication and alcohol?

I'm sure many people know that medication and alcohol don't go together, but not too many know why that is. Often times, we hear stories about a person overdosing on drugs or medications. Usually, the person took normal dosages of the drug, but the alcohol prevents the liver from breaking down the drug. Because the alcohol distracts the liver from breaking down the drug, the drug keeps its high potency, which eventually lead to overdose. Drug companies often know that your liver breaks down the drug before it reaches your body, so they make it with high potencies. However, your liver gives alcohol metabolism higher priority over everything else because it's toxic. Therefore, the drugs will have a high concentration than usual, which ultimately results in an overdose.

So, my idea of making a Alcohol tincture is probably a bad idea, as the alcohol will take precedence, however in such small amounts of alcohol (1ml) I wonder if it would matter much.

I wanted to take a .50 dosage, which would mean to cut the Proscar into 10 pieces and the pill is really small. So the alcohol tincture was a idea, but may not be a good one.

Originally posted by Sunny575:

Thanks for your input guys really appreciate it. I have few more questions.

 

Which option is better 1mg EOD or half a pill every day; and Rogaine once a day.

 

And also I am not that much worried about sexual side effects once we quit the drug I expect the side effects to be gone. But how about gyno; this side effect scares me a lot. If the body stops producing excessive estrogen ( due to increase in DHT) will this side goes away or it stays with out any enlargement from there. Can any one clarify this question.

 

 

Thanks in advance.

The bioavailability following a single dose of finasteride is only 63%, and the presence of food further decreases oral absorption. Approximately 90% is bound to plasma proteins, yet the drug does cross the blood-brain barrier. This is not problematic, since finasteride generally does not affect other hormones. Daily dosing causes accumulation to occur, with plasma concentrations increasing by 50% over levels observed from a single dose. After oral dosing, about half of the unchanged drug is excreted in the feces, and one-third is metabolized in the liver to the 17carboxylic acid, which is then excreted in the urine. The plasma half-life is 5-17 hours.

So every day or every other day? My feeling is half pill (.5) every day. but many are doing the every other day (EOD) or even M-W-F with success as well.

Rogaine at least once daily, preferred twice though.

Originally posted by Chuckisduck:

Intersting. I take proscar chopped into 1/4th every day. Both those pages 404'd for me. Do you know how effective .5 was a day?

Let me try the link again :

www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dail...0/060700/cp00001.rtf

http://www.physics.upenn.edu/p...medres/propcrap3.htm

And it says in the one paper:

As seen in Figure 1, the percent change of DHT for placebo and O.OL-mg Propecia were identical and essentially 0 within a reasonable statistical estimate. The change dropped to 60% for a 0.05mg dose and stayed that way for all doses up to 5 mg.

Thus, a 20 times smaller dose than that recommended had the same effect on the DHT. A similar dose dependence was seen for the serum DHT level

(Figure 2); the effect was no different with doses above 0.2 mg.

Dose dependence also occurs in the accompanying rise in testosterone levels, with about r/loo the 5-mg dose being identical in its effect on the scalp skin testosterone levels

(Figure 3).

Typically for a l-month supply, the price of 5 mg of Proscar is$76 for 30 pills, and for 1 mg of Propecia, $54. Therefore, a Propecia user would pay only $15 if he were to cut up the 5-mg Proscar pills.

However, the above depletion studies suggest that a dosage of 0.2 mg would be as effective as the 1-mg

dose, bringing the price down to $3 for a l-month supply. For the user willing to dissolve the Proscar pill (it is soluble in ethanol), or divide it up by other means, the monthly cost would be $0.76.

Later it goes on to say:

"I should not have made the remark about solubility in ethanol since the FDA actually blacked-out, i.e. censored, the actual solubility. "

Finasteride is a white crystalline powder with a melting point near 250?°C. It is freely soluble in chloroform and in lower alcohol solvents, but is practically insoluble in water.

Good read on this is also found on this board here:

http://hair-restoration-info.c...421067972#2421067972

I agree that since each of us are unique and respond to medications differently, we need to ease into these meds cautiously and report any adverse effects to our doctors for fine tuning.

I am thinking to start with less than 1mg every day, such as .50mg. It is just how do I want to get that done with the 5mg tablets. Cutting the 5mg tablet in half and taking 2.5mg M-W-F idea sounds promising, and I am Polish-English-American, however, I have a feeling I may miss one of those days, then going without on the weekends seems like a inconsistent supply of the medication. But hey if it works, then great. I have read that after oral dosing, about half of the unchanged drug is excreted in the feces, and one-third is metabolized in the liver to the 17carboxylic acid, which is then excreted in the urine. The plasma half-life is 5-17 hours. (this means the levels drop off) This is why I lean towards a lower amount DAILY as one third of the drug is being metabolized, and the rest is excreted. BUT since we are all unique and our amount of DHT is going to be different, we need to experiment a bit. Even when we find a routine that works our bodies change and the amount of DHT produced may increase or decrease over the years, thus the reason I think that the medication may stop being effective on those that have been taking it for years. It is that your DHT levels may have changed and you may need to increase the dosage or change the medication, such as Avodart (Dutasteride).

In summary I think it may be safer to start out slowly and increase over time. The bummer is if you are not taking enough, you lose hair. However, if you take to much and you have bad side effects that could be worse...

Also, A concern with finasteride therapy is that its reduction of serum prostatespecific antigen (PSA) levels can mask the detection of prostate carcinoma. Detection of Prostate Cancer test.

Choose your poison wisely.

Originally posted by Desperately Seeking Hair:

You can take finasteride any time on a full or empty stomach. Just don't take it with alcohol

I was told by pharmacist to take Finasteride in the evening prior to bed as it MAY make you dizzy, But this was assuming I was taking the entire 5mg tablet. However what ever you do, take it at about the same time of day.

What is the reason for not taking it with alcohol?

I was thinking of making a tincture with the Proscar pills made with Vodka. This way I could easily take dosages less than 1mg daily. I know that Finasteride is metabolized in the liver as is alcohol, so maybe to much for the liver to handle? However, since the liver is a filter for most everything we consume, I cannot see what the concern would be, unless you took the tincture on an empty stomach, then this may be a bit much.

Why is it bad to mix medication and alcohol?

I'm sure many people know that medication and alcohol don't go together, but not too many know why that is. Often times, we hear stories about a person overdosing on drugs or medications. Usually, the person took normal dosages of the drug, but the alcohol prevents the liver from breaking down the drug. Because the alcohol distracts the liver from breaking down the drug, the drug keeps its high potency, which eventually lead to overdose. Drug companies often know that your liver breaks down the drug before it reaches your body, so they make it with high potencies. However, your liver gives alcohol metabolism higher priority over everything else because it's toxic. Therefore, the drugs will have a high concentration than usual, which ultimately results in an overdose.

So maybe the alcohol tincture is a bad idea, however it is a small amount of alcohol (1ml) per dosage.

And NO, I am not looking for an excuse to drink Although when I look into the mirror at my hair, I may want to!

Yeah I was think the same think about half dosage! Although I have Proscar, which is the same as Propecia just at a higher 5mg dosage.

Interesting articles indicating such:

www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dail...0/060700/cp00001.rtf

http://www.physics.upenn.edu/p...medres/propcrap3.htm

Interesting reading as it tends to indicate that 1mg may be to HIGH of a dose. The article reads:

"In view of the fact that the drug must be taken forever to ensure continued and retained hair growth and that there are serious side effects such as impotence, breast enlargement, reduction in ejaculate, and

reductions in the psa score for possible prostate cancer, it seemed imperative that tests of efficacy should have been carried out at low dosages. The efficacy data submitted to the FDA did not possess the statistical accuracy to prefer 1 mg over 0.2 mgs and no studies were shown down to .05 mg.

Thus we conclude that the drug should not be approved at the high dosage until data are provided to the FDA showing efficacy studies at the lower dosages of sufficient statistical accuracy and with clear presentations of the effects of systematic errors in the studies."

I just purchased my Proscar today and I am thinking of starting at .50mg rather than the 1mg dosage (half of what Merck says). This might be a good idea anyway to see if any side effects happen, although it could take a few weeks to really know. Only thing is these 5mg pills are so small, that trying to make these into 1mg dosages is hard enough, let alone .50mg.

I was thinking maybe making a Alcohol tincture out of the crushed up tablets... Hummm

10ml of 80 proof Vodka to 1 5mg tablet would give me 10 1ml .50 dosages. I read that Finasteride is freely soluble in Alcohol, but practically insoluble in water. Thus the reason for the Vodka

As far as the coating is concerned, Proscar IS NOT enteric coated. Enteric coatings are designed to keep the medication intact until it passes through the stomach and reaches the intestine. The coating may also protect the stomach from irritation (as with coated aspirin and ferrous sulfate).

The coating of the Finasteride tablet is to eliminate the risk of drug absorption through the skin of a pregnant woman due to the possible teratogenic effect the drug could have on a male fetus since it blocks the transformation of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone.

Apparently the FDA for some unknown reason actually blacked-out, i.e. censored, the actual solubility of Finasteride. However, it is soluble in ethanol. Ethanol is Grain Alcohol, othewise known as Everclear Wink. So why the censoring? I think it is to protect Propecia sales and Everclear is VERY strong! Thus the reason for 80 or 100 proof Vodka.

What you guys think?

Cheers!

Originally posted by Teddw2ds:

I really tried to find the research report on the "steep curve" of finasteride effectiveness, but it has been over a year since I've read it, and I could not find it anywhere online.

I think this might be what you where referring to?

www.fda.gov/ohrms/dockets/dail...0/060700/cp00001.rtf

http://www.physics.upenn.edu/p...medres/propcrap3.htm

Interesting reading as it tends to indicate that 1mg may be to HIGH of a dose. The article reads:

"In view of the fact that the drug must be taken forever to ensure continued and retained hair growth and that there are serious side effects such as impotence, breast enlargement, reduction in ejaculate, and

reductions in the psa score for possible prostate cancer, it seemed imperative that tests of efficacy should have been carried out at low dosages. The efficacy data submitted to the FDA did not possess the statistical accuracy to prefer 1 mg over 0.2 mgs and no studies were shown down to .05 mg.

Thus we conclude that the drug should not be approved at the high dosage until data are provided to the FDA showing efficacy studies at the lower dosages of sufficient statistical accuracy and with clear presentations of the effects of systematic errors in the studies."

I just purchased my Proscar today and I am thinking of starting at .50mg rather than the 1mg dosage (half of what Merck says). This might be a good idea anyway to see if any side effects happen, although it could take a few weeks to really know. Only think is these 5mg pills are so small, that trying to make these into 1mg dosages is hard enough, let alone .50mg.

I was thinking maybe making a Alcohol tincture out of the crushed up tablets... Hummm

10ml of 80 proof Vodka to 1 5mg tablet would give me 10 1ml .50 dosages. I read that Finasteride is freely soluble in Alcohol, but practically insoluble in water. Thus the reason for the Vodka

Proscar IS NOT enteric coated. Enteric coatings are designed to keep the medication intact until it passes through the stomach and reaches the intestine. The coating may also protect the stomach from irritation (as with coated aspirin and ferrous sulfate).

The coating of the tablet is to eliminate the risk of drug absorption through the skin of a pregnant woman due to the possible teratogenic effect the drug could have on a male fetus since it blocks the transformation of testosterone into dihydrotestosterone.

Apparently the FDA for some unknown reason actually blacked-out, i.e. censored, the actual solubility of Finasteride. However, it is soluble in ethanol. Ethanol is Grain Alcohol, othewise known as Everclear . So why the censoring? I think it is to protect Propecia sales and Everclear is VERY strong! Thus the reason for 80 or 100 proof Vodka.

Cheers!

I would sum this up to say if you can tolerate the liquid and the greasy type feeling then use the liquid. Otherwise use the Foam.

Also I think that since Rogaine's original formula PATENT came up, they needed to come up with a new product, and since many had reactions to the liquid and the greasy complaint, it works out for everyone. WIN WIN situation.

How about use the liquid in the AM then use the Foam in the PM! That is of course if you can tolerate the liquid formula

Good thread...

You can try the FAQ at this link:

http://hair-restoration-info.c...6060861/m/6021047973

But it may not fully answer your question.

This is a legitimate question and I have poured through the forums searching for answers on this topic and the more I read about it the more unsure and confused I get. I am questioning whether I need to take a drug (pill) for hair loss. The research on this subject and the fear of what Propecia MAY do to me has in effect already caused me to be impotent... (just kidding) but the mind is a powerful thing. It scares to me to think what will happen when and if I start taking it? My mind may cause things to happen, then if you order online, how do you know what you are getting? The fake drug may be worse than the real thing!!!

I am almost sorry I started this whole project.

Originally posted by Dewayne:

The raging erection of my youth has somewhat given way to a pretty adequate semi, but it might be more the result of:

 

a. Being 42, and

b. married to the same woman for 18 years....

 

I'm fairly certain that with a little 'strange', I would revert to my former self.....finasteride be damned. But, it is not to be as I'm only programmed to think that sort of stuff, not act upon it.

HA! Gotta love it... I am 47, and married since 1982 (27 years) to the SAME woman. So I know what you mean. It's amazing what anti-depressants and Internet Porn can get you through. Ha! HA!

Yeah the Acai berry does have antioxidant benefits, and is the latest "wonder juice" one year it is pomegranates, then blueberry's. If you are referring to Mona Vie juice, it has more in it than just Acai berries, like:

MonaVie Active Ingredients: Proprietary blend of acai (freeze dried powder and puree); Fruit juice from concentrate (white grape, nashi pear, acerola, aronia, purple grape, cranberry, passion fruit, apricot, prune, kiwi, blueberry, wolfberry [goji], pomegranate, and lychee, camu camu); fruit purees (pear, banana, bilberry);d-glucosamine hydrochloride, esterified fatty acids, natural flavor, citric acid, sodium benzoate, potassium sorbate.

Glucosamine is the reason for the joint pain relief....

Just good old fashion snake oil in a modern day package, and multi-level marketing to boot...

I believe the Acai berry has benefits, but it has been blown way out of proportion

Sambazon is the manufacture you would want to buy the Acai berry powder product from. I have added it to my Protein mix drinks. Just do not get sucked into the hype!