Ranger99

On 1/11/2020 at 4:05 PM, Curious said:

The placement of the grafts looks  pretty good.  It's hard to tell what you're talking about with respect to density given the pictures you've posted.  Have you lost more hair due to mpb since your transplant two years ago?

Not to my awareness. My recession has always been very gradual, since I was 21. By the way, the photo in point #3 is about one year-post op. 

Here's another one (about 22 months post op).

At no time after the transplant was the hairline on the left side defined. It was always thin, just as it was before the transplant. Definition is a little better on the right side. To me, the before and after difference overall is marginal. The biggest difference is the $18,000 void in my wallet!

2 hours ago, Abi28 said:

If you plan on using a time machine to go back to the 90's then yes go ahead and do a scalp reduction.

This is absurd, don't ever go to that doctor again, you are clearly going to the wrong doctors.. you can fix your hair with 1000 grafts via FUE, your hair situation is not that bad compared to some of the stuff on this forum, make sure you research the doctor well on the forum and see actual results posted by patients.

I'm not getting a scalp reduction. I was just speaking objectively. As I said, I have little faith in hair surgeons. Don't know if I will even bother getting this poor result fixed. If it's only 1,000 grafts that I needed to fix it, I might consider it, but what kind of yield will there be in a scarred scalp?

6 minutes ago, Abi28 said:

lol some doctors in the US live in the 90s and can get away with murder, who does scalp reduction? wtf 😐

I am not sure if technically "scalp reduction" is what the term is for what this particular surgeon suggested, but it seemed that way. Either way, the suggestion was to remove the scarred scalp area. 

26 minutes ago, Sam818 said:

Joe Tillman is a hair transplant guru who recommends Baubac and has a youtube channel. I understand the guy has got to eat but he should provide more clarity on how he recommends doctors. In a post I found by him on the b truth forum he mentioned how he never met Baubac or visited his clinic he only had pleasant phone conversations with him. That's it? That's all it takes when you claim you would allow any of the doctors you recommend to operate on you. Also Joe Tillman talks about how much he values post op care with doctors. There is no post op care with Baubac, nobody cares there. And if he is really a patient advocate as he claims why does he recommend a doctor that surprises his patients with an NDA agreement on the day of their procedure? Is that ethical? This is a great forum because hacks like Baubac are not welcome here.

I know exactly what you mean with your scalp issues and this is definitely a poor result but a scalp reduction seems drastic, no?

 

Yes, it does seem drastic. It seems to me a decent result could be achieved by transplanting in and around the poor yield, but I am no expert. This might be what Armani had in mind when they offered to do a free transplant, but there is no way I would ever go to them again, free or not.

14 minutes ago, Sam818 said:

Joe Tillman is a hair transplant guru who recommends Baubac and has a youtube channel. I understand the guy has got to eat but he should provide more clarity on how he recommends doctors. In a post I found by him on the b truth forum he mentioned how he never met Baubac or visited his clinic he only had pleasant phone conversations with him. That's it? That's all it takes when you claim you would allow any of the doctors you recommend to operate on you. Also Joe Tillman talks about how much he values post op care with doctors. There is no post op care with Baubac, nobody cares there. And if he is really a patient advocate as he claims why does he recommend a doctor that surprises his patients with an NDA agreement on the day of their procedure? Is that ethical? This is a great forum because hacks like Baubac are not welcome here.

I know exactly what you mean with your scalp issues and this is definitely a poor result but a scalp reduction seems drastic, no?

 

The NDA agreement—thanks for reminding me. I am going to add that to the bad list.

14 hours ago, 1978matt said:

Maybe you should contact Joe T and ask if one of his other 'approved' doctors can fix it for free...

Who is Joe T?

I went to a renowed HT surgeon (someone I should have went to from the beginning) not long ago and he recommended doing a scalp reduction (to eliminate the scarred transplanted area), so that he could transplant on to a fresh scalp. Of course, this is very costly and would have used up nearly all my remaining donor hairs. Told him I would think about it but I doubt I will do it. I don't have faith in HT anymore, nor do I want to dish out thousands of dollars again. 

10 hours ago, Melvin-Moderator said:

I’m terribly sorry you had to go through this, unfortunately no surgery can ever be guaranteed. 

As a forum, were here for you, have you spoken with the clinic? What is their proposal? We had a long history with Dr. Armani in the past, he actually sued us because we wouldn’t remove negative reviews. I don’t know much about this physician, but hopefully his ethics are better. 

Do you mind taking better pictures? Your hairline appears spread apart and it’s difficult to gauge the real results. Try to take photos outdoors with your hair styled normally, so we can compare. 
 

Best wishes, 

Melvin

Spread apart? Perhaps due to the poor yield. I'll get some more photos.

20 minutes ago, Kaya said:

Can you please attach preop and 10 day photos?

How much did you end up paying?

Cost was roughly $18,000 USD.

Preop:

And here is 10-days post op, as you requested:

After much delay, my apologies, here is my story, finally.

I had a disappointing hair transplant with Dr. Baubac of Alvi Armani a couple of years ago. I am going to keep this short and simple.

Stats: NW2-3, allegedly 2,500 FUE grafts at Beverly Hills office.

(Dislcaimer: I am not an expert and the following are just my personal opinions)

The good:

• Price was somewhat negotiable
• Procedure and experience was comfortable

The bad:

1. Poor yield
2. Uneven hairline
3. Poor hair angulation of hair that did yield
4. Patchy, overharvested donor area
5. Scalp fibrosis in transplant area, resulting in raised scalp
6. Nobody from patient care or Alvi Armani contacted me post op! 
7. A non-disclosure agreement (NDA) was suddenly provided to me on the morning of my surgery. Who would back out this close to a surgery if they didn't like what was in the NDA, especially if they travelled from out of town? Seems unfair to me.

1. Poor yield 

Two years post op.

2. Uneven hairline

I can't believe this would happen. The new hairline was initially felt-marked in (as is standard practice with all HT surgeons), seemingly quickly. I noticed the assymetry immediately post op and told the nurse. She dismissed it as being due to swelling. Well, after all the swelling had gone down, the assymetry remained. In the following photo, I put in a line to show the uneven temples. However, the assymetry begins before the temples. This was taken a few days post op. The assymetry is more noticeable in real life and especially at certain angles. 

3. Poor angulation

It's difficult at times to style the hairline, as it seems the angulation is all over the place and the cowlick that I had was not transplanted out, which is what Hasson and Wong say is the norm for a good transplant. As a side note, there is one transplant that has four or five hairs coming out of one hole and is noticeable close up. Very unnatural looking.

The following photo is taken in the morning (obvious bed head), but I can't find a better photo that shows the bad angulation. I'll see about taking a macro photo.

4. Patchy, overharvested areas of donor area

With a number 2 or 3 buzz, the donor area reveals patches that you can see in certain lighting/angle situations. Even at the time of the surgery, I felt the harvesting was rather quickly done.

PHOTOS TO COME

5. Scalp fibrosis in transplant area, resulting in raised scalp

Not sure if other transplantees know what I am talking about here, but it's like there is this raised, slightly hardened tissue in the transplant area that actually raises the scalp. It's lumpy, probably due to deep tissue scarring or something.

PHOTOS TO COME (However, it may be difficult ot show this)

6. Nobody from patient care or Alvi Armani contacted me post op! 

What more needs to be said?

7. A non-disclosure agreement (NDA) was suddenly provided to me on the morning of my surgery. Who would back out this close to a surgery if they didn't like what was in the NDA, especially if they travelled from out of town? Seems unfair to me.

Some highlights from the surprise Armani NDA.

Conclusion:

I asked Dr. Baubac for a refund and they refused. Instead, they offered to do the transplant again (at no cost to me), to which I declined. 

Baubac biz card that I received while at his office:

5 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Just read the NDA clauses published: Seems like it is just not allowed to present any (!) results in forums. Neither good ones nor bad ones...scary. 

Perhaps this will give a bit of insight:

5 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

That is still more than most of the clinics do. Most clinics have the techs harvesting even the great ones (H&W, Feriduni, …). 

OK, wasn't aware of that. Regardless, results are the bottom line and I didn't get them.

Also, the harvesting was not great. There were patches of overharvested areas rather than evenly spread harvesting. I am not sure what the standard is, but this is what I got.

Just now, Curious said:

Have you posted any photos of your results?

Not yet. Just waiting on clearance from my legal team.

2 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

The latter would be the case for any clinic. It is also hard to believe that he has only unhappy clients. At least he performs most of the surgery himself. Why would he do that if all results are bad anyway? 

Anyway, the lack of patient results was the thing which turned me down. 

As I said on the H&W thread, Baubac did the harvesting and holes for the transplants but had two very young latino clinicians doing the actual placement of the grafts.

Why would he do what if the results are bad? I don't seem to understand your question.

I am in closer proximity to H&W but I chose Armani instead, because I got baited in by the promise of youthful hairlines and the prestige of being in Hollywood.

Big mistake.

2 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

That does not explain why there are also no positive reviews from patients.

It suggests there aren't many and/or that those with positive results don't want to talk about it and want to keep private lives.

17 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

Just because you had poor yield, one clinic is not superior than another. There are bad results from H&W just like from any other clinic. Saying that: It is really strange how few patients cases from Baubac are published. 

I am not saying one is superior, but I have consulted with Hasson in person and found him much more professional and seen great results from his patients. I can't say the same for Baubac.

8 minutes ago, Gasthoerer said:

NDA or not NDA: It is still very strange how few patient reports are out there showing the work from Baubac. I googled several forums, but there are the same rare reviews. 

The clinic posted results look great but patient reviews are the deciding factor. 

A few possibilities:

- botched patients get repair jobs and, after success, move on with their lives

- fear of litigation keeps them quiet (fear is a very powerful thing)

- they give up on restoration altogether (which is sort of where I am at, although I feel compelled to warn others)

10 minutes ago, Sean said:

Really?  What happened?  I saw him and some his patients in person and this was like 2 +years ago and work looked quite natural.  Not discounting your issue though, but do you have a thread or pics to show what happened?  Was it in Your hairline for you?  What would you rate the yield?  

Ive noticed that lateral slit creates most natural result and will prevent multi direction when done right.  

Good luck with everything 

After I consult with legal counsel, I am going to give the full post-mortem (w. pics) of my botched surgery. Yield was about 30% even though the Armani literature boasts of a 90-95% yield rate (LOL!). Zones 1 and 2, similar to Balboa, although it seems my results were worse than his.

Baubac only did the harvesting and the holes for grafting (it all seemed very rushed). He had two very young latinos doing the actual placement of the grafts.

44 minutes ago, Curious said:

When you show up in the morning for your transplant and they hand this agreement to you to sign, refuse to sign it, or insist on crossing out the portions such as the NDA and the arbitration requirement that you object to.  They probably won't cancel you.   

Wish I had walked right out of his office. Would've had a much better, and cheaper, time at Universal Studios.

8 hours ago, Sean said:

Dr Wong seems to be a great guy.  Ive spoken with him.  I kind of feel they are top notch possibly in Canada and as well as North America in general.  Especially the west coast folks, you have Dr Baubac, Dr Diep and H&W.  Their work probably stands out especially when it comes to yield and tru lateral slit work.  You got some clinics that may tell you they will do lateral slit but then your hairs (if some grow) are in all different directions and you just look and wonder how the hell do you get out of this situation.  

There may be updates soon.  Hopefully, will see what happens.  But I highly recommend folks to video record their journeys from the very moment you talk to a doctor in person and do this like a blog so you do not get blamed later for this and that or there is no denial from a doc or change of stories later.  

If you are considering H&W, I think it it a safer option vs some other docs.  Best of luck

Excuse me, but Baubac does not belong in the same category as Diep and Hasson and Wong. With Baubac, I had a poor yield with multi-directional hairs for the few that did yield. Also, the professionalism between Baubac and Hasson is night-and-day difference. 

It looks like Armani victims' only justice can be found in the court of public opinion.

6 minutes ago, CosmoKramer said:

Interesting...

But, even worse than the “keep your mouth shut” clause, is that they want you to relinquish your right to any legal/court action against them and do arbitration probably with an arbitration service they very-likely pay for. Yeah, No.

 

Here is more on the arbitration from the Armani/Baubac agreement:

On 11/14/2009 at 9:50 AM, Anouar said:

it took about two months. Shane was no longer handling the case some other reps got on board. There were phone conversations and exchange of emails that were fruitless. They wouldnt budge. My last alternative was to contact the credit card company and investigate the situation. I sent them emails regarding my correspondance with them and how they pulled a bait and switch approach and no services were rendered. This took about another two months but i was eventually able to get the some of deposit back

didnt get it all back. All this made for a huge headache

How much was the deposit, if I may ask?

On 11/11/2009 at 11:03 PM, Balboa said:

Lol this clinic is a complete joke i just recived a letter from a lawsuit firm acting for armani, threatening to sue me becuase i asked for a partial refund becuase of poor results, and also states i will be not entitled to undergo further surgary with the clinic, and also demanding that i do not post any futher comments on this site and to remove all my other previous coments regarding there poor work.

 

(just for the record armani, didnt i already say i wouldnt go back to you again for touch up or more surgaries if my life depended on it)

 

I find this very amusing and very UNthreatening to myself if that clinic realy thinks i will stop posting and take threats like that into account they can think again, (hope your looking at this armani reps) the company makes me sick, the messup peoples heads and then pay a firm to try and scare you into keeping quiet, how lame is that. i think now with what they have done i will have no choice to make it for of an insentive to stop as many people from making the mistake i did, and as a result will be posting as many picutres of my head and will even create my own dedicated website to the armani victims to hopefully help people falling for there missleading marketing scams and bad work and also telling patients that there 2-3 years away from cloning lol (yes bobby you told me this), i hope Bill does not remove this post at any cost as i think this is a vital post in this topic as it shows how low dr. armani and his team realy are, they wouldnt like it if someone stole 15,000 dollars from them in exchange for messed up hair transplant with poor growth, scaring and angles (armani must of been out drinking the night before if he thinks i have a normal hairline) and if they think they will have the last say they can think again im going to report my finding to the medical board of canada also along with others with there permition, i will also upload the lawsuit document showing how low they are if Bill lets me.

 

and i also like to respond to the post obove this,

 

you may be happy with your results but i doubt you know the real dammage, what area did all those grafts go into, do you not relise you have compromised your donor supply with such a large ammounts (for the doc to say your grafts are not ready??????? what the hell does that meen. thats just saying you havent got enought donor hair without giving you a thin back head, i would love to see some pictures in good quality (not dull light) and as far as not smoking ect, i dont smoke i eat healthy and i exercise regular and dont use and products in my hair, and that goes for the most of us. we cant judge or repect your comments without pictures. and 1 happy guy out of so many unhappy guys on here just doesnt cut it. i stress and i mean stress that this clinic needs to be avioded at all costs, if you choose to ignoir this you deserve poor results, im not saying the doc hasnt produced any good results recently but i feel that any other top doc with better ethics and one that does not work like a hair mill (letting techs do everthing bar making the graft sites, one done and on to the next) will produce better results than him everytime, Feller i suspect is the best for fue, and wish i went there first.

I, too, have requested a refund. Wonder if I should expect one of these funny little letters.

On 9/5/2009 at 4:29 PM, thanatopsis_awry said:

Armani is a 21st century butcher. If Armani was just lowering hairlines and densepacking (lol...) on young guys I'd appoint him to sainthood of the follicle. I might even go to him. Yet, Armani's legacy is *not* doing this.....

 

What he *is* doing, however, is magnified by these comical surgical prognoses of his:

 

Armani takes power-tools to your donor while destroying untold amounts of priceless donor while you pay a premium for this and the heinous yield on your grafts. The words "densepack" and "Armani" are a twisted oxymoron, and "densepack" is the (hollow) codeword that he to this day makes him his bread n' butter by seducing young kids who want it all and think they will be getting it. Make no mistake about it, however, you would get more lush locks gluing strands from Troll dolls to your head than by getting an Armani "densepack".

 

Armani does what he does because he lacks the skills, talent, and professionalism to do otherwise. This alone would be bad enough to make him a 21st century butcher. His cherry on top is to leave you with the remnants of a poor, low hairline; low enough and noticeable enough that along with your now decimated donor, you're stuck in a futile pursuit of trying to play catch-up if you can even afford to do so. And over the backdrop of what invariably will be your extraordinarily depressed, angry and confused state, will be a nice harem of Armani shills and legal scum being thrown at you.

Here, here! 

With Armani/Baubac, I got no dense packing and only a butchered donor area (over harvested, probably with too big of a punch).