Twentyfive25

How do you identify whether you have the early signs of gynaecomastia

For the past 2 months I have substituted my normal 1ml of minodoxil in the evening for 0.75ml of topical finasteride + minodoxil.

I’ve read about gynaecomastia as a potential side-effect of finasteride and noticed recently that I have a fair amount of soft tissue around the nipple area, above my chest muscles. When I tense my pecks, I can pinch a decent amount of soft tissue that sits above the muscles.

I don’t know whether I am just being completely paranoid or not. I’d never paid any real attention to my nipples before now so I have no idea whether this is the same amount I always had or whether it’s new.

How much soft breast tissue is normal for a man and how does one go about diagnosing gyno early?

10 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

Yeah, it's a build up of glandular and other tissues that make up breast tissue. These are saturated with hormone receptors and so they can grow once Estrogen binds to them. 

Depends, if you caught it early, then it might well reverse itself, but yeah generally it probably wouldn't just spontaneously reverse upon stopping if it had developed to a certain point. And, people often think that surgery is the only route, but from what I've learned, there are options out there medication wise that could be tried first and can be successful. If not, then yes, you would require surgery to get rid of it, but it's not a big deal of a surgery either way (although I also wouldn't want to have to get it either - just saying). 

And yeah I get that, it's a decision for you to make personally and weigh up the pro's and con's. Personally, if I was that bothered about it, I would just begin fin and then pay a visit to the doc for a check up every month and maybe get some imaging done with a mammogram or something to monitor and be sure. 

 

Yeah I hear you. All those things are quite expensive though. We have healthcare here but it doesn't include anything cosmetic. To get them to check it for free I guess I would need to lie about not taking anything and make out that I was concerned it was something more serious.

17 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

Whilst I disagree that you won't ever experience side effects if you don't in the first 2 weeks, you're not going to develop breast tissue from gyno in a matter of days to weeks. You'd need to take it for months and months to notice anything different. 

Gyno is indeed a real potential side effect, albeit pretty rare, from the use of finasteride. It's the only side effect that you can actually say will likely persist after discontinuation. It can happen due to the fact that fin leaves you with more overall Testosterone than previously which can disproportionally aromatase to Estrogen as a result and leave your T to E ratio out of balance a bit.

The study you linked (which isn't great scientifically just as a side note as it's not controlled and merely relies on self reporting... we have no idea if people already had gyno before, if they were/are overweight, if they are blaming something that already existed before on fin as they are now hyper-aware of due to reading about sides and so on) even shows the rates to be basically 40 out of 15,000.

I really don't go around worrying about things with these sorts of odds in life in general, most things are far more dangerous than you think, including many of the routine medications you will take, daily actives you will do, and routine medical procedures you will undergo. Some antibiotics have similar statistical rates for inducing life threatening  and completely life altering conditions, but I wouldn't think twice about taking them. 

Of course fin is for pure 'vanity' reasons if you want to call it that, my only point is that this is a medication, none of them come without any potential for side effects. You're saying a 0.3% risk of gyno is an 'enormous red flag', which I disagree with. If you don't want to take even very small risks for hair, then I can respect that as it is just hair at the end of the day, but you said it yourself, you're losing the battle. As the old saying goes, you can't have your cake and eat it.

As for PFS, the evidence is severely lacking in that department and the vast majority of medical figures don't believe it to be a real condition. Maybe it is, who knows, I'm personally not convinced at all either, but even so, it would have to be so rare that I wouldn't ever lose a wink of sleep over it. Again, it's a risk to reward ratio like anything in life at the end of the day, if you really don't want to lose your hair, then what else are you gonna do?

 

Thanks, you seem well-versed on the topic and you're right regarding the risk factors with other drugs.

I think I'm most concerned about the possibility of effects being permanent or at least very long-lasting. I understand the evidence around long-term PFS is pretty weak but gyno is a build-up of tissue, right? That tissue won't go away if you stop the drug will it? So if I am unlucky and get it, I either have to pay for very expensive surgery or live with man boobs. That's what is a red flag for me. Side effects that won't go away if I stop taking it.

16 minutes ago, LaserCaps said:

Typically, if you do experience a side effect, all will return the normal when you stop the med.  I have never seen a patient experience a permanent side effect with any med. Perhaps others can chime in and give their opinion. Are you under the guidance of a doctor? Perhaps visiting with one and reviewing all your options may be a good idea.

You can purchase a laser - do it a home.  Yes, they can be expensive.  

Well it's just that I have read reports like this:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2929552/

That talk about quite severe cases of side effects in otherwise healthy people that still persisted months and years after the stopped taking the drug. That's an enormous red flag for me.

43 minutes ago, LaserCaps said:

The only way to confirm is to try the med.  If you experience no side effects within the first two weeks, you'll never will.

Why not try doing the other modalities available to you? PRP, Laser along with the Minoxidil? There is documented synergism when used simultaneously.  

Forgive my ignorance but how will knowing about it in the first two weeks help? If I get permanent sexual side effects or grow breasts that require expensive surgery to remove? The damage is done by that point, surely?

I did look into PRP and Laser. Ultimately, the issue with those is cost. They're very expensive. Laser is thousands I think for the complete course as well as being an enormous inconvenience having to go for treatments so regularly.

Does anyone have any experience with this?

I'm losing the battle with just minodoxil and am at the point where I need to think about something more drastic. 

I've been highly reluctant to try Finasteride due to fear of Post-Finasteride Syndrome and Gynecomastia. I know the risk chance is low but the symptoms of that would destroy my life and marriage so I'm very nervous around this drug.

I've read that a topical version can still be effective but limit the risk factors which is interesting.

Does anyone have any experience with this? 

Can anyone recommend a good supplier for this that is based in or ships to the UK?

Liquid made my head itch like crazy and it also makes your hair greasy so it's no good in the morning.

Foam acts like a nice hair spray or hair wax so I think it's way better and worth the money. You do need to part the hair to apply it to the scalp if you have longer hair, though.

4 hours ago, Spaceman said:

There is more internet content warning of PFS than people who have suffered from it. It is quite rare. A few thousand possible cases where men experienced at least one symptom among tens of millions of finasteride users. More commonly, a small percentage of people experience side effects that go away after the drug is discontinued.

I’m not sure how much peppermint oil will help, but it probably won’t hurt. I suspect if it made a big difference people would have figured that out many years ago. And some shampoos already include it.

Minoxidil is effective for many people, but not as effective as finasteride. If you’re in the US, Costco has good prices.

Some people have also had luck with Biotin, which is cheap and easy to find. Published studies are inconclusive though.

Whatever you try, you need to keep on it for six months to see what kind of benefit it does or does not provide. There are no quick fixes.

Be that as it may, PFS would destroy my career and ruin my life. Even a 1 in a million chance is not worth it just to keep my hair. I’m happy for all the people that have used it successfully but I’m not personally willing to take the risk. Especially with there being so few viable treatment options for it.

Can I infer from your statement that there is no way to pre-test the effectiveness of Minoxidil then?

Done a lot of reading around this forum before posting but I have a few specific questions so decided to post.

I’ve always had a high hair line and double crown but I’ve noticed over the past 12 months that my hair is rapidly starting to thin, especially in those two areas.

The (albeit remote) possibility of PFS has completely ruled-out Fin for me, particularly because I’m in a very people-focused job. The risk isn’t worth it. So now I’m pretty much just looking at scalp treatments to try to prolong the life of my hair.

I read that peppermint oil is excellent for hair regrowth so I’ve bought some and mixed with a carrier oil for treatment but that’s pretty annoying as it gets oil everywhere and forces me to wash my hair every day which isn’t ideal for it either. 

So my first question is: can I just mix the peppermint oil into a normal shampoo or something like Alpecin or Nizoral which are supposed to help?

Second question is whether I should consider things like Minoxidil and derma rollers? I’ve heard some people say Minoxidil did wonders for them but apparently the active ingredient only works for like 50% of the population and it’s EXPENSIVE (side bar: is it possible to test whether I’m one of those 50% before investing in a course). Derma rollers are relatively low cost but I heard they hurt like hell so interested to hear som experiences around that.

Finally, is there anything else I can/should be doing to help?

Much appreciated!

I’ve decided to not risk it and let my hair shed for the time being.

The stories of PFS have completely put me off because, whilst they’re rare, those side effects could destroy my career. I work in sales and 3-6 months of brain fog, anxiety and tiredness would prevent me from being able to work effectively.

If it was possible to stop as soon as you start to feel the effects and they wear-off, it might be a different story but it sounds like for some unlucky people this syndrome onset’s pretty aggressively and persists a long while after they stop taking it.

It’s not worth the risk.

Thanks all for sharing though!!

I could deal with the risk of side effects but it is the risk of side effects being long-term or even permenant for some people even after they stop taking it that puts me off. If I get unlucky it could ruin my life. That’s a big risk!

Is it possible to do a sort of “3 months on, 3 months off” regime to keep your exposure to it down and minimise the risk of long term side effects?

Maybe that is the best drug for treating it but after reading this:

https://www.drugwatch.com/beyond-side-effects/chicago-man-taking-propecia-biggest-regret-life/

I can’t take the risk. That drug has completely ruined that dude’s life just to maintain his hair. If there’s even a 1 in a million chance of getting those effects I don’t get why anyone take it but I suppose some people are bigger risk takers so I can respect that!

Really appreciate the advice on getting the Minoxidil cheaper though!! Thanks!!

Hi Twentyfive,

 

Looking closely at your crown, unfortunately I would say there is some thinning going on.

 

You could give Finasteride (Propecia) a go, I have seen it work wonders in this area.

 

You will need a prescription from your GP and you should be able to pick up the generic version quite cheaply which works just as well judging from the results I have seen. There are associated side affects but in my experience they are rare.

 

You could carry on with the Minoxidil (Regaine), again you can pick up 3-6 months of Qgain from Ebay much cheaper than on the High Street. It contains the same Minoxidil ingredient.

 

Hopefully the meds will help you sustain your hair for a number of years yet as they have done for many others.

 

Feel free to contact me if you need any other advice.

Thanks so much for the quick response!

I have sworn-off Finasteride/Propecia since it has been reported that some of the side effects have been long-lasting or even permenant even after stopping taking the drug in rare cases. I’d rather shave my head than take even a 0.1% chance of some of those effects being permenant.

That basically leaves me with Minoxidil, then. I’ve checked eBay on your advice and it does seem a little cheaper. Is it safe to buy from eBay though? Is there nowhere else you can get this chemical cheap?

Another photo in more natural light.

Hello!

I’ve just joined this network in the hope of a little guidance from people for knowledgeable on the topic than I!

I’ve noticed my hair around my Crown has started to thin out quite a lot recently and want to try to re-grow it but not sure what treatments are appropriate.

I’ve been using Alpecin Shampoo for a month now but Rogaine/Regaine is very expensive here in the UK and I wasn’t keen on making such a hefty investment in it when I don’t really know whether it will it even help me at such an early stage. Is it a lifetime investment after then also or can you go some time on/some time off to maintain your hair?

I’ve attached a picture of my crown. Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!