Torn

I'm trying to understand how one determines the amount necessary to 'fully cover' a given area. Having done a few consultations they will basically just view the balding area and propose an amount. Those proposed amounts can of course vary widely.

However as I understand it the general target is 50% of your original density. Given that I would think the best approach would be to measure (if possible) the density of the donor area to obtain the original density. Then measure the density of the balding area. And then using 50% of the original density as a target amount subtract the density of the balding area to arrive at the amount of grafts needed to create the proper illusion.

100 -original density

50 - desired target amount (50% of original)

20 - density of recipient area

30 - amount necessary to create illusion

Is this the correct way to make a determination and if not how then does one accurately determine the necessary amount of grafts ?

I say this because when I had my procedure I was told it would look great... wouldn't need any more. This of course was subjective. The Dr's opinion. The results in my opinion were quite different. Hardly great and I do need more.

If I do go forward with round two I would much prefer objective to subjective. Or is a truly accurate determination just unrealistic ?

Paleo, thank you for coming forward with your story. I believe it is the true spirit of this site to not only post the great results but to warn of the bad as well. It is unfortunate that some who come forward are criticized, though hopefully it will not stop others from doing the same. Surely the doctors do not post their less than acceptable results. It's only from the patients that we hear of them.

please tell me what exactly I need to do and what are my chances to fix this catastrophe. Thank you

 

Sanjar, you need to contact a reputable doctor and follow their guidance. If need be the mods here might be able to provide you with a few recommendations.

Good luck...

Great results !! Congrats...

This is why I am so hesitant to have further work done. I'm sorry guys but that just screams unnatural / obvious transplant.

That and we now have four pages and FailedFUEGuy. after writing a rather lengthy post, has not replied back ?

He has only one post from ten days ago where he makes a blanket statement about FUE and disappears ?

"DO NOT DO FUE IT DOES NOT GROW AS WELL AS FUT. I AM LIVING PROOF."

I just don't know what to make of this...

Actually this reminds me of a somewhat similar case also by Dr Feller I believe where the hairline was frontloaded with nothing behind it. To each his own I suppose but in my opinion very unnatural.... and very obvious. Seeing cases like these very much concerns me...

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/159110-plug-removal-dr-beehner.html

At my consultation next week I'm thinking of using the rule of thirds to discuss possible hairline placement.

Have others here used this ? And if so were you happy with your results.

Outstanding work doctor. Of the two sessions were they the Combination Method or the All-FU Graft Dense Packing Method ?

I believe you placed the grafts in the first session at 35-40 FU/cm2, after the second session what would you say his FU/cm2 currently is ?

Did you buzz down the recipient area for either session ? I understand you don't always. How do you determine if and when you should ? I've always wondered if that was a risky endeavor.

Thank you, Torn

NTB I believe you're coming up on 10 months now, have you come to any conclusions as to how to proceed from here ? And who you will go to, to repair this ?

I received poor results as well, and have to wear my hair down as you've had to do, to hide the bad work. I can definitely relate to your position. The time, money, preparation all for naught. Only to have to pay again to repair it.

There are very few doctors who can achieve a convincing hairline. I do hope you choose wisely. Good luck !!

Awesome work doctor !!

I hope to achieve similar results in my upcoming repair.

Sorry to say it looks very pluggy, thin and unnatural. There is also a gap on your right toward the back. Did you lose any grafts there ?

What exactly has dr Feller said ?

I wish you all the best ! Hopefully in time it will fill in and detract from the overall pluggyness of the look. If not you could always have more work done to fill in and correct.

Good post. Lots of interesting questions.

 

Because there are so many variables. Everything has to do with:

Your personal hair loss

Your personal hair characteristics

The doctor you visit

The day the doctor/techs are having

Pure luck

Yes the FUT vs FUE debate is a funny one, and it exists because there is no definitive answer on the subject. There are good and bad results coming from every single doctor, regardless of whether he is considered a "top Doc". But the more you learn about the different procedures the better you can potentially address your personal situation.

If you are a NW 5+ you might want to look at FUT if you are okay with the scar and all its issues.

If you are a NW 2/3 and your hair loss is stable you might want to look at FUE.

Sorry you got shut down about your past results. You should re-post and give it another shot. There are good people here on the forum who can help access your situation and give you some good feedback that might help.

I didnt answer all your questions. Hope some more people will jump in and get to some I missed.

Thanks for the informative reply Magnum. With so many variables and lack of any definitive studies it is not an easy process. Even with a so called 'top doc'.

Has there ever been an actual conclusive study done on this subject ? And if not, why not ? I am in the process of deciding between the two. Or for that matter possibly going with both. And I find it all very confusing when one says one thing, and another says the complete opposite.

On a similar note I often hear of 'top docs' who produce better yields. And I wonder, exactly how do they know this ? I went to a so called 'top doc' and frankly I was very disappointed by the results. I mention this only because having gone through the process with this doc I noticed he never accurately evaluated my density before or after. Yet I was told by him, my yield was good. By what measure ? When I went to the forums to speak of it I was pretty much shouted down.

I say this only because how can docs be considered 'top docs' producing 'high yields' if they are not actually evaluating the before and after density of their patients. To then be able to produce hard numbers. Or at least it didn't happen this time in my case. Was I the exception ?

That and or making claims one method (FUE/FUT) is superior to another. How exactly is this determined ? And if there are conclusive studies why is this still hotly debated ?

This post is not about my bad experience but the personal insight it gave me in that how are some of these claims made ? FUT yields more that FUE. OK, well then exactly how much ? Is this consistent ? How did you come that opinion ?

I'll conclude by saying that maybe more studies are needed.

I would agree with Spanker that 300-500 grafts could be enough to help soften your hairline. However, I do believe your best approach is to see one of the recommended surgeons here in person. They'll be able to get a much better idea of what your options are by being able to see your donor supply as well as what your hairline actually looks like in person (as opposed to photos). Given that you said that it looks much different in person than in pictures makes it even more difficult to get a good idea of what you should do. I think that's perhaps why people are being hesitant to comment, as no one wants to steer you in the wrong direction.

 

Based on the photos, however, I will say that you look to be in pretty good shape, and I would be surprised if this wasn't somewhat of a relatively easy fix. Start doing some research on surgeons on this forum, and see which ones spark your interest. Then look into setting up a consultation with them and formulating a game plan.

 

Best of luck.

Thanks pkipling.

I just wanted a rough estimate as to what it would take to soften a hairline. I thought it would go way above 2k of which I would not be able to cover donor wise. And therefore if that were the case I would save myself the trouble and just call it a day.

I'm actually surprised at the +- 500 number, and will in fact start to consider another procedure.

Thanks again....

I think you could soften the hairline with a few hundred grafts to 500 if that's your only goal. Doctors like Dr K that only does one pt per day no matter what the size will be more expensive than of you find someone you can piggy back off of. However, I do think he'd be a good person to consult on this, if just for the advice.

 

Also, he could look at you and suggest doing fue to thin the mini grafts rather the just adding to the hair line. Its a tough choice and I think your in a delicate situation. The hairline may not need to be dropped. Hard to tell from pics. I think you should see a trusted hairline doc in person. Let us know what you decide.

Thanks Spanker, 500 fu to soften the hairline and finish it off sounds doable. Yes it is a delicate situation, I do have a lot to think about.

Thanks again....

I think if you add some singles to soften the hairline and add a little density that would be great. You hair looks good. I am surprised that you have little donor left. Have you had a lot of surgeries?

Thought about your response. A few single hairs using fue perhaps might suffice. But how many ? The cost could get out of hand, as this sometimes appears to be a bottomless pit !

Isn't it interesting you receive more responses asking for photos, than responses actually just answering the question..... even after you've posted the photos.

I think if you add some singles to soften the hairline and add a little density that would be great. You hair looks good. I am surprised that you have little donor left. Have you had a lot of surgeries?

Yes unfortunately I had multiple procedures back in the 90's. Of which I'm sure there was a lot of waste.

As I said the photos are deceiving, the hairline in real life looks rather harsh. Its hard to describe, I think because its so thick (relatively) at the edge instead of gradually thickening that makes it jump out so much and make it so unnatural. I've noticed when I comb it back peoples eyes go up as opposed to when I comb it down as I usually do. That and the spaces between the plugs and it's overall shape are a dead give away.

As I have a limited amount of donor, at least according to one doc I would appreciate a number as to what Id need to soften this up to look more natural. And to where they should be placed for the most benefit.

Best case scenario Id hope to be able to soften the hair line and add some much needed density behind it...

So guys how much do I need and where should they be placed ???

OK I see... I hope they are clear enough.

Though I just noticed the hairline actually looks better in the photos for some reason than in person. So just take that into account.

Thanks again...

Just looking at a rough estimate at this point. I'm told I have about 1600 left. And want to see where I stand.

Nice transformation doctor.

I've had multiple 90's style plug procedures in the past which luckily weren't that bad density wise. But left me with a rather harsh and obvious hairline and not much donor hair left. I'm debating between adding density and softening the hairline.

As to the hairline. How many on average would I need to soften up the hairline and round off the temples ?

Nice work doctor...

Not personally familiar with those Drs though I'd suggest reading through all the reviews here if you haven't already.

Good luck ....

Have you spoken with or meet with Dr Beehner ? I recall reading a few posts here from patients who were very satisfied with his work. As I understand it he uses DFUs.

Here is one case of Dr Beehner's I followed as it related somewhat to my situation. I thought he did a fine job as did the patient.

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/159110-plug-removal-dr-beehner-2.html

Good luck....

Hello everyone,

 

I am a NW6, considering hair transplant procedure for the very first time.

 

I was wondering if anyone could share their experiences with Dr. Pawlinga of Saratoga Hair. There doesn't seem to be much feedback/review information on him anywhere on the internet.

 

The only information I could gather from the forum was how Stumper had a very bad experience with him about 10 years ago when he was a fellow with Dr. Beehner.

He seems to do combination grafts using FU's (in the front and back) with DFU's (usually in the central core). Any info would be much appreciated!

 

Anyone?

1,600 might get you 3,000 hairs, probably enough to make a decernible difference to the first 3cm of your hairline.

 

That doesn't sound too promising. I was worried the 1600 or so grafts I had left wouldn't be enough to add the density behind the hairline needed to create a more natural look and make it worth going forward. Without thickening the frontal third adding to the hairline would probably look worse. I suppose I may not be able to do anything at this point.

Here is the best side shot I have...

Did they examine your head with the scope to detect miniaturization? I had one FUSS too many which yielded only 800 worthless grafts placed in my crown which would later thin, and need for 300 beard FUE to obscure the resultant widened scar. I subsequently was able to get 3400 more grafts via FUE after an esteemed strip doc told me he could extract only another 500 at best and recommended SMP instead.

 

Many HT patient end up only believing in what they want to hear. Perhaps that explains why there are so many posts about repairs on this site.

Thank you for your candor hairweare it is greatly appreciated. I can see you've been through quite a bit. I will take it all into consideration.

Yes there are quite a few repair cases on here ....