HairPhnatic

Hi all,

So after 3 sessions and 3 weeks after the last, here is what it looks like. I apologize for the bad quality. I have one last session to add more density overall but specifically on the crown area.

As you can see, it has faded a bit as told from Dr. Pak.

So as I mentioned before, I was a participant for the patient viewing at this year's IAHRS meeting in San Francisco.

It was a great experience to meet/see a number of doctors in person including Rassman, Bernstein, Bhatti, Doganay, Feriduni, Alexander, etc. as well as a few of the patient advisors such as Jotronic, We here on the forums know a number of doctors but it was incredible how many came around the world. Obviously, the hair loss industry is a booming business.

So to keep it concise, a few key takeaways and common questions from the doctors:

1. How long will it last?

- Technically forever but we never know. Hence the temp versus perm will always be an on-going debate. For those looking into it, ask people who have done both and research, research, research.

2. Will he have to keep it short forever?

- Yes to maybe a 1-2.

3. Did it hurt?

- Yes, you definitely need some type of pain numbing agent specifically on the more sensitive areas.

4. How many sessions?

- 3 sessions with 5-6 hours each session.

5. What ink/tool is used?

- A tool similar to which is used on tattoos. The ink is a proprietary mixture.

- I received really great feedback. Some actually came and asked what are we seeing here other than a shaved Asian guy only to be surprised what work was done. I also want to note, one of the advantages of my work is I still have hair (very fine ones). This gives someone the possibility of having FUE and SMP to give a shaved look if that is something you are ok with.

Good luck to all.

hairphnatic can you post your pic of smp done on your scalp

fueonly, please refer to thread:

SMP with New Hair Institute - Page 3 - Forum By and for Hair Loss Patients

3 weeks after 3 session. 1 or 2 more sessions to go.

H54,

I have been intrigued by Bhatti for quite some time and I have a similar pattern like yourself. I had SMP to buy some time but will be following you to see your results.

Good luck!!!

Yep, if my research is correct, they are monochrome like HIS. Black and White TV all the way.

 

Those people with fairer hair will be offered a more diluted black, that is all. And they will be told they have to cut their hair really all off in future to get the best benefit. They will also be reminded that shaved hair of any color looks black beneath the skin, and hence....

 

They don't need to shave it in all reality, but they will be told they have to, despite the ads that suggest growth is possible. Color mismatch and color is an intriguing shadow of knowledge for the SMP researcher.

 

Ate you now a rep for NHI? or doing e show as part of the 'give and take' thing u mentioned?

My personal belief is they should keep it as clean shaved as possible.

Please keep it mind I still have hair on top but it is diffusing in an advanced stage.

I'm not currently a rep at NHI and I'm not sure what "give and take" you are referring to.

Dr. Pak mentioned during one of our conversations about the ISHRS Annual Meeting near where I live and after a few sessions; I was invited to be one of the patients people/doctors could view.

It just happens to be in San Francisco where I'm about an hour away. I had a few online consultations with some international and in the mid/east-Coast it will be pretty dynamic to meet them in person.

I read next year's annual meeting is in Bangkok and the following is Chicago. If Dr. Rassman or Pak are willing to fly me there; I'm always open to that...if that is the "take" you are referring to.

I think the pain is associated largely on which area combined with your pain tolerance. The crown and mid-scalp was not too bad like HairThere mentioned. The pain is largely at the temples and especially at the nape hair. I think some type of numbing agent is very beneficial if you are getting SMP on those regions. Again, I don't know many who got SMP on nape hair so that won't apply to the majority.

HairPhnatic,

 

Can I call you HairPhantastic, or Hair Phantasia? No, oh, well,

 

 

Do you know there are products to deal with scalp shine? Just rub them on like sun screen and get a matte finish.

 

Reading between the lines, it seems to me, you feel that in a world of relative morality, we need a bit of give-and-take. And this apples in the Clinic, Poster and Forum relationship.

And so being decent to everyone as well as cutting a bit of slack seems to be in order. Sounds like a smart philosophy.

 

Some questions more, if you wouldn't mind.

 

How did you take to the idea that NHi are all black, or shades of grey and use no colors whatsoever? Were you aware of that? And I take it you were aware that in Jotronics excellent write up on Milena (or was it Spex?) where the color and size philosophy was spelled out. And that was, small pigments, no black. I know you are of Asian descent, so I am guess you are all for black, but did you know that, that was your only choice? Did they say specifically to you, "We are all black?"

 

I agree about the pain. It always makes me cringe to read these reps talk about SMP as being painless. It is not just the reps, it is the honest punter, who has decided to post about his 'positive' experience and can't be compromising the 'joy' message.

 

SMP hurts!! No, it doesn't kill you. It isn't like root canal surgery, but it is nagging, persistent and really, really nasty for a long time!! It's about time people know it about this small but nagging issue. And I guess that with the Milena technique it might hurt less, due to the extremely shallow depth.

 

My problem with temp is that you are basically just putting ink into dead keratin which sheds at speeds according to the treatment it gets. No swimming, no sun etc.. Unless you are ready to wind down the clock.

 

Thanks for the best write up so far about an SMP. Too bad about the docs prognosis, I tjhougt that with propecia u might have more to work with.

 

Good luck

scar5,

Thanks for the info on scalp shine. I'm not too worried about but definitely will keep it in my back pocket.

In terms of give and take. I think it is just being realistic. A transplant is moving hair with our current technology. If you don't have enough to move, you are out of luck. SMP is tattoos on your scalp.

I didn't know they only offer all-black. Actually, visitors who came during my session were actual all Caucasians with orange/brown hair so I don't know the solution is if NHI only offers black. They did not exactly say they only have black and my assumption was Dr. Pak being of Asian descent himself and doing some pre-examination knew what was the best course of action.

As for the pain, I talked to a few other clients from other facilities which are not authorized to provide anesthesia. They admit if not the 1st or even 2nd, but their 3rd that was unbearable. Again it really depends on how high of a Norwood you are and your pain tolerance. I would say it was pretty close to a root canal. Even though I did get anesthesia, it only got to my top scalp so when they did my nape hair and above my ears; I was clenching my fist very hard in which they administered another shot. Again I was cursed with some retro alopecia (potential balding of the nape hair and above the ears) so those areas may not apply to you as the rest was bearable to an extent.

Yes, at my age; I'm pretty severe so SMP is buying me time until I can get some FUE.

FYI, there is an ISHRS meeting in San Francisco this Saturday. I will be one of the patients available for viewing so if anybody is interested, wanted to give a heads up. The viewing starts at 3:40pm and I will be meeting Dr. Rassman.

Hi hairphantic and thanx for the great write up. Can you help me understand did you have the permanent SMP cause you mention fading in 5 years. Am i correct?

Number47,

Yes I did have permanent SMP but as it is dependent on your skin dynamics. And just like a normal tattoo, it may fade over time.

I have read many discussions over temporary and permanent. Fading, turning blue. It is simply prioritizing what you are looking for and evaluating the risk.

Jotronic actually has an article for temporary over permanent:

http://www.hairtransplantmentor.com/hair-loss/temporary-scalp-micropigmentation-or-smp-the-real-history/

HISHair has considered offering temporary in the future but raised some issues with temporary: (link removed by moderator)

For starters, one has to see if they are a candidate for SMP. And secondly, if they are; they need to research on the pros and cons on the types. Unfortunately, similar to debate(l

Hi all,

I went through my 3rd pass a few days ago so I have a few more thoughts.

1. SMP is not a hair transplant replacement.

2. Do not expect the 5 o'clock shadow.

3. For someone who is doing a lot of sessions specifically on the nape, vertex, and sides; make sure you find a place that offers anesthesia. I found it very painful specifically the nape area where your skin is very sensitive.

Attached is after my 2nd pass and to be frank, I think it is natural you want more and more. Even after my 3rd pass, I still want more but after looking at the first pictures I've posted...it has been a huge drastic change for the better.

scar5,

Thanks for the suggestion. I have looked into Turkey and specifically Bhatti in India. Again, I have received very similar diagnosis where my density is rather thin along with an advanced hair loss. With that said, the combination of price points and the quality of FUE I have seen them perform gives me hope I can create a realistic shaved look.

As for smudging, Dr. Pak assured me that wouldn't be an issue but fading would be more of the concern. For the last 3 years he has done SMP, 20% of his clients have requested a touch-up.

As for the economy dictates the speed of each penetration of the inking tool, I will say there is some mutual benefit with a different sense of dynamics. My first request from the clinic was for them to provide a realistic outlook and in turn, I would have realistic expectations.

Hair loss is a common challenge all of us face and I wanted to be fair and realistic for people on the forums and for the clinic. With that said, each session so far has taken 5-6 hours each. The last session had three different personals working on me with two at a time for periods on end.

I agree it is eventually impossible to not go over previous dots but I think the building a relationship with the people you working with is essential. With that said, Dr. Pak's staff have been very personal with me chatting with them throughout the session. I think it allows them to see me more as a person and in turn "care" about their work as well as myself.

As for the five years, I think that is a number I threw out there based on the cost and how much time I "hope" it can buy me. As for now, I think optimistically it is still a reasonable amount of time.

According to Dr. Pak, it gets darker on the 3rd day and fades to its natural and "permanent" shade. Is it fading, I'm sure but how much in 1, 2, 3, 4 years...who knows.

I do have a preference to make it less shiny but realistic expectations comes into play. For starters, the dots does provide somewhat of a physical stubble to create a dimension. With that said, putting black dots with a marker on a shiny piece of paper does not eliminate all the shine. I hope the analogy makes sense....it is getting late.

Yeah, yeah, I'm looking forward to your results too. Please post your pictures, preferably immediately after the procedure, a month after, three months after and a year after so we can get a realistic view.

 

Now, all BS aside.

Are you ready for this?

1) Do you think your hair color will be taken into consideration? (Are they monochrome? i.e. black, but watered down as a token matching attempt?)

2) Do you think it will fade, and at what rate? (i.e. Are you prepared for patchy fading?)

3) Do you think the color will alter? (black will become blue?)

4) Do you think you will have options with your hair length?

 

NHI are probably as good as they get IMO, but SMP has so much dodginess, that a prop like that doesn't mean that much.

scar5,

1) For people of Asian background, we are considered one of the worst candidates for hair transplants due to our low density combined with our fair skin and black hair. With that said, because my hair is black, we are good..well better candidates for SMP in general.

2) When they said several years, I think it really depends on the skin. But realistically, I'm thinking 4-5 years in terms of a optimistic standpoint before I need a touch-up.

3) From my understanding, it might but I would see the concern more about it fading than turning blue. Because of it being such small specks, even if it turns a bit blue; most people will not notice it. My true concern is it being smudged potentially.

4) I think it is because of my limited options that I have resorted to SMP. Because I still do grow hair on the top, I'm going to see how it looks but I would say you are limited to keeping a buzzed look.

So I wanted to highlight the day of my procedure.

So I arrived in Los Angeles around 8:30AM and got there around 9:00AM. I had a chance to fill out some paperwork including if I wanted sedatives and/or anesthesia. I opted for both as this was the first procedure and I assuming the longest.

I wanted to chat with Dr. Pak to have a in-person hair transplant consultation. I would like to say he was very personal and upfront which I appreciated. He told me I would eventually get the horseshoe NW6/7. And like most people of an Asian background, my density was in range of my ethnicity but lower than Caucasians. I have about 150 hairs per square cm while Caucasians average about 175-200. Asians tend to average 1-2 hairs versus 3-4. So pretty much what I have been told through online consultations and expected. He mention my max was 6,000-7,000 grafts which I was a bit surprised but I figure it makes sense since other doctors have suggest 3,000 to start and maybe another 3-4,000 in the future. However, in my case, I'm looking at 7,000-10,000 to have that fullness so I have to very strategic in what I want to prioritize in restoring my hair.

By 9:45AM, I was in the room and getting my sedatives and anesthesia. I would like to note than Dr. Pak does the hairline but not for the entire procedure. I had Christine do my hair who also assists him in hair transplant. She was great and very personal the whole time.

Dr. Pak prefers a conservative look which aligned with my thinking as I want a hairline that I have a "chance" to fill using FUE in the future. Christine basically concentrated on my crown, vertex, and lower my temples a bit.

By noon, we stopped for lunch. I would say it was a very friendly and "relaxed" atmosphere. When I say relaxed, I'm not saying they were unprofessional but because this is not an invasive procedure like most, so there wasn't monitors everywhere. Even Dr. Rassman came in once to greet me. Throughout the whole time, Christine asked me how I was doing including the staff and Dr. Pak checking on me time to time. In terms of pain, I'm glad I had the chance to take both.

Overall, the rather painless process allowed me a chance to catch up on "Breaking Bad".

By 4PM, we were done with the 1st session. I think that was definitely needed as Christine was working real hard throughout the day and she definitely "deserved" the break.

Attached are some pictures immediate after the procedure. I want to note I'm diffusing throughout so I do have some fuzz but I do need to fill it out more in the next session.

I flew back that very same day with no issues. The only thing was some redness and my head overall was a bit sore. I had a very busy weekend and the only precaution was to not shampoo my head for 3-4 days until Monday.

Please let me know if you have any questions.

I'm narrowing my choice too and while I lean on Dr. Bhatti, I'm having a hard time seeing results as many have posted how great of a guy he is but most (not all) don't come back to show final progress. It might be the members are so happy never to come back to the forum to "show off" their results.

beatjunkie, I'm similar to you and I'm looking to fill my top conservative to maintain a buzzed look. While I do have hair, it's diffused everywhere so I know where that will be heading to and must anticipate on that.

California, I msged you!

Hello there,

For those who want to know a bit of my hair loss story, please go to my blog:

Hair Restoration Social Network - Hair Loss Patient Blogs

I will be flying to Los Angeles to get my first session of SMP at New Hair Institute with Dr. Paik on 9/27/13.

Here is a few things I considered when I selected them:

Price: In terms of pricing, they were actually quite pricey compared to others like but they have payment options which I preferred. I also like the fact their future touch-up was overall more competitive in pricing.

Service: Others were relatively slow in response and while it shouldn't be the main reason, I needed to go with someone who had a reasonable response time. Others have suggested 3-4 hours and two sessions, NHI said they would do 4 and that would be 5-6 hours each time. While it may show the others are more effective, I would rather take the slow longer route and have it done right. Also, I have a decent pain tolerance but they include anesthesia as part of the pricing while others can't/don't.

Reputation: What I have seen from others specifically one that has a presence in California have been mixed along with great results (ex. too sharp). Because they were growing rapidly, there is no guarantee which artist you will get. Here, I will get Dr. Paik to do the work the entire time who have more experience with the Asian hairline. I have heard some mixed results from Rassman (ex. hair transplants for celebrities) but nevertheless, they are doctors and not just highly skilled tattoo artists.

Ultimately, my long term plan is to combine SMP and get FUE including the I call it jekyll and hyde attempt using BHT due to my young age, advanced hair loss, and low donor. I hope to keep a conservative buzzed cut. I have considered going overseas for that procedure (Bhatti in India, Koray in Turkey, and Bisenga in Belgium). Any suggestions is appreciated.

More to come.