xtatic5

AA here.  I had surgery (in India) to lower my hairline @ 29 but I had a way bigger forehead than you do.  I knew that I was taking a risk by doing it before 35 but I was desperate, so I feel your pain.  Just be aware that the density of transplanted hair is typically 50% (or less) than that of your native hair so it will look thin without concealer.  I grow my hair long and blend but if you're going to keep it short then be prepared to commit to a daily makeup routine or SMP.  Also don't plan to fade the back less than a #2/3 or the scar will show, whether FUE or FUT.

Have you consulted your barber?  You might be surprised what they can do with styling.  Bigen is also effective for edge-ups.  All the best.

10 hours ago, hairman22 said:

the hair is too thick behind the hairline.

 

But the smo doesnt look good in that pic. Looks like paint. important even in density not to go too dark imo. Juts look for a suttle improvement.

 

Some people go for too much density

Thanks.  Interesting that you think it's too dark, I actually think it's a bit faded.

On 12/22/2021 at 3:43 PM, EnhancedScalp said:

Could be the camera/lighting (smp is funny like that. But from first glance seeing those pics, I'm seeing migration and too deep of pressure. 

If you have a newerish camera phone, jack up the settings, and use your rear facing camera under natural light, this will clearly display the impressions for us .  

Here are some pics in natural, ambient lighting.  Not the clearest pics because the camera wants to focus on the hair instead of the ink.

9 hours ago, Gatsby said:

Approaching SMP should be no different than approaching the right surgeon for a hair transplant. You really need to do your homework and due diligence. This operator looks like a cowboy IMHO. 

Agreed and I didn't choose him blindly.  I've actually seen his work on a friend of mine and it looked phenomenal.  He has also won national awards and teaches SMP.  He's certainly a character but a nice guy in person.

I assumed that my result would look like my friend's but it doesn't, at least not to my eyes.  But my friend went in for a shaved look whereas I went in for density, so perhaps my expectations were incorrect.  I'm seeking validation on that.

4 hours ago, hairthere said:

I'd agree the problem here isn't your SMP job but your hair transplant and the hair length/style. You need to either grow it longer or shaved down with a zero guard so the SMP blends properly with the hair. I turn clients away if I think the expectations are unrealistic or if I feel there are other better options for them. Did your technician mention to you that you were better suited for a Shaved Look procedure?

When clients come to me for a procedure I'm always very thorough and explain the realties of what we can accomplish. It's very important to explain proper hair lengths and to manage expectations. I also have clients come in with a few days of growth and then I'll shave them and show proper techniques as well as discuss a game plan for on-going hair maintenance. This includes choosing the right type of shaver or clipper. 

Regarding pictures: SMP can be tricky to capture accurately due to light reflection off of the scalp. Phone cameras also have a way of bumping up or washing out contrast. 

I appreciate all of the feedback.  To clarify, I am satisfied with my transplant and my plan was always to regrow my hair after SMP; the double hairline is only temporary.  My concern is more about the quality of the SMP itself.  I was expecting it to resemble a buzz cut so that I could shave my head when the time comes but it doesn't appear that way.  Is it just my eyes/camera playing tricks on me?

On 12/21/2021 at 10:00 PM, EvoXOhio said:

I need to retract part of my statement. When I look in the mirror at my SMP, even up close, I see nice pronounced dots that match the color and tone of my hair. However when I try to take a picture of them, they look similar to yours. I’m thinking maybe the light shining down and reflecting off the scalp is what’s causing them to look dull and misshapen. If I try to take pictures without direct overhead light you can’t even see the dots as it just looks like hair. So it’s really hard to photograph, at least for me. 
 

I do still stand by my concern regarding the hairline though. 

I agree that it's difficult to see any dots at all without direct light; could it be due to the low contrast between the ink color and my skin tone?  Here's another pic in ambient, artificial lighting. I'll also attach a pic taken the day after the procedure.  It looks amazing but unfortunately all of the visible ink disappeared days later.

The double hairline is from a 2700fu transplant back in 2013 to lower my hairline. This was previously bare forehead so what you see is all transplanted hair.  Some of it came out with the SMP scabs and I'm hoping it grows back.

12 minutes ago, ciaus said:

 

October was less than 12 weeks ago, this is way too short of a time to look that faded if it was done by an experienced professional SMP artist. Would you mind sharing where you went to have this done?

And how many total sessions did you have? When you say the scabs came off in week one, you should have had at least two or three "week one"s. Unlike a hair transplant, with SMP you have at least two sessions, usually separated by 7 to 10 days so that your skin can heal, scabs shed, where the SMP artist determines how well your skin is retaining the ink. Some guys need 3 or more sessions, just depends on their unique skin and physiology. 

 

This procedure was performed by Chris Herrera of Scalp Micropigmentation in Maryland, USA.  This was performed in one, 3-hour session with a check-up 30 days after.  I raised my concerns with him during the check-up and he defended his work.  He said that adding more ink would make it too dark and suggested that I grow my hair long for the best result. 

In addition to looking faded I'm not sure why the "dots" are mis-shapened, is this normal for a density fill?

This procedure was performed by Chris Herrera of Scalp Micropigmentation in Maryland, USA.  He used permanent ink covering my entire upper scalp as well as my FUT scar.

For context, I'm a NW 3V with diffuse thinning.  I received a transplant to lower my hairline in 2013 and I've been on minox and finasteride ever since.

I asked Chris for a density fill to enhance my hairline as well as a bald patch on my crown.  I ultimately opted for whole scalp coverage after assessing the condition of my thinning scalp.  Honest opinions welcome.

Is this the kind of faded, "smudgy", and indistinct SMP that you're talking about...? (please excuse the hair)

I just got this done in October and it has looked this way since the scabs came off in week 1.  It's been really bothering me and I don't think its a good result after seeing others.  I should note that this was a density fill procedure which aims to cover more surface area than traditional SMP.

Thank you for the thoughtful comments. I really want my next surgery to be my last so FUE seems like the safer option in that regard. I'm not opposed to strip if laxity or donor density are issues.

Mattj, I did part my hair to reveal the scar. Without parting, bits of the scar are visible at a guard 3 cut. I'd like to wear my hair at a 2 or, ideally, 1 guard.

I agree with your estimate of 1500 grafts at the hairline. I would want the increased density to start about .5cm in which is 20% less area than my original surgery.

I haven't been told that my donor density is low but I'm open to body hair FUE if necessary. This could also be a reason to do FUT again since it could result in a better scar. I have considered SMP but held off because I knew another surgery was inevitable.

I am looking to add density to the previous work.

I did not do consistent scalp exercises prior to my last surgery.

How many grafts do you reckon I'd need to achieve "full" density (without concealers)? My first surgeon suggested 800. Dr. Erdogon suggested 2000-2500 in the hairline and 500-800 in the scar (based on photos). I find that very hard to believe considering 2500 grafts is a dense hairline by itself! I already have 2000 grafts in place...

I had FUT to lower my hairline 4 years ago and I'm thinking of going under the knife again for added density. Based on my surgeon's estimate at the time, I would need approx 800 more grafts to achieve "full" density.

I haven't been on the site in a long time: Is it still the prevailing opinion that once you've been scarred by FUT once, you might as well get FUT again?

Some factors affecting my decision:

Curly hair (+1 FUT)

Tight scalp (+1 FUE)

Recovery time (+1 FUE)

Scar Revision (+1 FUE)

I'm leaning toward FUE since it's a relatively small job (transection won't be significant) and I can get FUE into the scar simultaneously. My ultimate goal is to get off of concealers.

I started the big 3 last winter. I stopped using Lipogain months ago and stopped using minox last week. I continue to take fin (.25mg). So far, I haven't noticed any increased shedding. To be fair, I didn't use min as directed (only applied once per day) so I may have never seen its full benefits to begin with.

My bag got checked while traveling thru PHL. It was actually flagged because I had a bottle opener inside but the agent did open my Toppik and sprinkle a bit out. I explained to him what it was and he sent me on my way.

Also, while traveling from DUB, an agent advised that I include the Toppik in my liquids baggie.

I noticed early signs of hair loss about 3 months ago and jumped on the Big 3: finasteride, minoxidil, and ketaconazole (shampoo). Knowing how each of these treatments affect the body, I wonder if it's necessary to continue the shampoo once finasteride has taken effect. Since fin is eliminating DHT at the source, will there be anything for the shampoo to cleanse from the scalp?

Also, I caught my hair loss early enough that it's only visible when parting my hair. In other words, I could do without minoxidil assuming that finasteride halts my hair loss. Does this sound like a logical theory?

I take .25mg of Finpecia daily; .5ml of Kirkland minox daily; Lipogaine 3x/wk

I just wanted to share this information with any Afro/Biracial guys considering Dr. Erdogan..

A bit about me: 31, biracial American, FUT performed in 2013 to lower the hairline.

I was interested in Erdogan because of his manual extraction technique which may produce better yield than motor-FUE (he claims in videos that it causes less transection in curly hair). Unfortunately, however, I received this reply in response to my inquiry:

"Kindly be informed, that for African type hair, live consultation in Istanbul is required. The doctor has to make also some test extraction during the consultation, to see whether extraction is possible or not. So I can not offer you surgery date, only consultation appointment."

In other words, I would have to travel to Istanbul twice, once for consultation and another for surgery. I understand why this test would be necessary; some hair is too kinky to be extracted without a high chance of transection. However, I had hoped that given pictures of my hair (which is clearly not kinky) they would at least schedule a surgery date with the expectation that extraction is possible. If I "failed" the test they could have a local patient on standby.

In the same email the doctor (via translator) estimated that I would need 2500 grafts to thicken the hairline (40 cm2). This is double the highest estimates provided by Radha and Bhatti. I realize his opinion could change upon physical examination but I'm not flying to Turkey to find out.

Needless to say, I'm a bit disappointed. I'm not willing to fly to Istanbul twice. While I know that surgery is always contingent on patient viability, to not even schedule a surgery date within the same trip seems like a prohibitive inconvenience (at least for me). No other surgeon has had this requirement.

Has anyone else encountered such inflexibility?

I didn't use the online forms but rather sent an email to info@hairtransplant-center.com. I received an initial response but it's been a week since my reply.

Thanks Dr. Karadeniz. I can see your point about "feeling" the hair shaft.

Unfortunately, I was told the first time around that my scalp was a bit tight. The scar stretched (or at least hair didn't grow for .5cm) and I'm sure it's only tighter now. I hope for this to be my final ht as I'm not experiencing hair loss.

If transection is a concern for donor extraction, is it also for the recipient incisions?

Thanks Gil, definitely good advice. That's why I got FUT the first time around, because I knew transection was more of a risk with FUE (for curly heads). This time I won't need as many grafts and I hope to get some scar work done.

This particular surgeon is very popular on this site but he uses a motorized punch which concerns me (less careful?). I'm also chatting (or trying to) with Dr. Erdogan since he uses manual and claims a better ability to feel the curvature of the follicle.

Without pictures it's difficult to comment, but it's certainly within expectations. 3 months is early. You should start seeing growth around 4-6 months. I've heard stories about delayed, explosive growth at 9 months, although rare.

If the hairs were implanted among native hairs then the new ones will be difficult to spot. They'll be thin and may lack color at first.

I'm 2 years post-FUT at the hairline. I'm in consultations to get a 2nd pass for more density (FUE this time). I have curly hair.

In one of my recent chats with a surgeon, I was inquiring about the higher risk of transection during graft extraction on curly hair. He claims that transection does not result in a dead graft, just one that cannot be used in the current session. The root remains unharmed and will grow a new hair. How true is this?

Obviously, it's possible for a root to be accidentally severed, but is it likely since the root is so tiny?

Thanks for the distinction between incisions and implants, Garageland.

I'm also in consultations for a density bump. I assume, like Dr. Charles said, that it's possible if done carefully. Unfortunately, techs usually perform the implants and I'm not sure if they take the same care as the surgeon. Be sure to review examples of your prospective surgeon's repair work.

I assume he shaved his native hair, not the transplanted hair. Still, I probably would have shaved pre-op just to avoid an accident.