NewHairNow

I have seen many 'early growers' from Dr. Rahal's patients. Dr. Rahal is also known to plant grafts at much higher density than most other Coalition doctors. I wonder if these patients had the early growths as a result of the high density of grafts planted or as a result of the skills of Dr. Rahal? It makes sense that the more grafts planted, the more early growths one will see.

That being said, more grafts planted do not always equal good yield, just look at Dr. Armani's patients...

Early growths aside, I have seen spectacular final results from most Coalition Doctors. Therefore while being an early grower is nice, I would assume that patients who are not early growers can still expect great final results.

Any comments?

Originally posted by Hoping:

Medicine is an art not a science.

While I agree that hairline placement requires certain artistry skill from a doctor, saying medicine is not a science can't be serious. Hoping, you must be joking right? along with all the ridiculous comments you had made so far in this thread. If there is such thing as a synonymous for science, it would be medicine.

I am starting to question you real motive now about starting this thread. Are you really asking for feedback regarding Dr. Epstein work or you were just trying to promote Dr. Epstein, not knowing that it backfired?

Originally posted by Leeson:

Usually, that's suppose to be his showcase patient.

yeah right, sort like Dr. Armani's patient coordinator Pats205. He is not confidence enough to post pics of his own FUE result, which I think is at 1 year mark now...

Originally posted by CalvinKlein:

Stingray I like your conservative approach with the hairline. I really appreciate you taking your time out and sharing your experience with us rather than just walking away and ignoring reality. I for one was considering HT between FUE AND FUSS but I think I will lean more towards fuss now. The yielding in fue is hit and miss ragrdless of what any clinic shows you how many photos. It's a scientific fact.

 

Concerning your hairtransplant...I know you're angry and almost all the guys here hate armanis with passion, but the fact is he also has performed mind blowing results. I say this because if I were you I WOULD NOT just walk away. I would take them up on their offer and get the "touch-up". I am SURE they will make it their personal business for you to get outstanding results so you can come back here and say "look guys , all is dandy! they satisfied my concerns". I wouldn't walk away at my expense if I weren't satisfied with the results!

 

However, I wouldn't add more than 1,000. Any surgeon you go to would love to add a lot of density to your poor growth areas so they can mak themselves look like heros and say "we fixed armanis loss". Donor is precious, you are not THAT bad nor butchered, please don't throw in another 1,500 to your hairline!. 1,000 should suffice nicely!

 

BTW are you on any treatments or were you on any? Your donor from the side looks pretty good.

CalvinKlein:

Again what kind of BS is it?

While I agree the Coalition doctors sometimes have cases of poor results (except Dr. Epstein, who has more than his share of poor results lately), and thus touch up may be advisable with the same doctor. On the other hand, it seems that poor yield results from Dr. Armani is the norm, not the exeption. Therefore, I am glad that Stingray is not considering a touch up with Dr. Armani because it is probable that poor yield will occur again. As you correctly stated, while the touch up is free, those non-yielding grafts are gone forever

As for your 'mind blowing results from Armani', I have not seen it lately...since Dr.Armani switched to FUE. Hmmm...coincidental maybe...Even though Dr. Armani performed nice strips before, I would still take a result of a Coalition doctors like Keene, Shapiro or Berstein over his anytime. In my opinion, Dr. Armani, even with strips, was not able to demonstrate the efficient use of grafts like what these Coalition doctors were able to.

Originally posted by lost my swagger:

this FACT about how deceptive pictures can be has put more money into HT drs pockets than ANY OTHER SALES TACTIC used. pictures should NEVER be trusted by themselves seeing 2 or 3 patients from a dr in person, means more then a hundred seen online

Well said LMS. I just to add that even when seeing a patient in person, one's still need to be careful. I remember a case of a patient of Dr. Armani, on HLH, who offers to meet potential patients in NY. The result was absolutely amazing. It turns out that not only he had a strip HT but he admitted that he is a great responder of medication. He never showed his post-op pictures even when repeatedly asked by members on HLH.

There is another case also, very similar to this where Pats205 says that no post-op pictures are available and that the patient does not want to be bothered. It turns out to be a lie as some smart cookie was able to dig out the post-op pictures that the patient was posting on another hair site. The pics clearly shows that the patient is a great med responder as well.

The bottom line is: if a doctor does not have ethics, then anything he shows or says should not be taken at face value, including his patients or reps.

Spex: talking about understatement!

Stingray: hope Dr. Bisanga will correct this. Please grow please highly regards this doctor.

M&M:

If half of what you wrote does not scare the shit out of Mike or anybody considering Dr. Armani, then nothing will. Even Lincoln can't convince all the people all the time. Some people just have to learn it the hard way.

In my book, just the fact that Pats205 and Shane, Dr. Armani's own reps are not showing their own FUE result is a huge warning.

Originally posted by Pat - Publisher of this Community:

We do not tolerate any clinic, recommended or not, encouraging their patients to cheer lead for them in exchange for compensation. That is why the very first paragraph of our forum's terms of service that every member of this forum agrees to in joining this forum states -

 

"All posters promoting or advocating a particular physician, procedure or treatment on this forum are required to divulge any compensation, monetary or otherwise, that they may be receiving in their posting signature. No links or references to websites or resources of a promotional nature are permitted on this educational forum."

 

I believe that the vast majority of clinics do not engage in covert marketing on the forums. Those who have found themselves removed. Members of this community have also be hyper vigilant about detecting such covert marketing and have helped us detect, call out and correct such behavior.

Pat:

I think there is a difference between being encouraged to cheerlead a doctor versus being encouraged to publish one's HT progression, which can be negative or positive.

There is also a difference between getting 100 free grafts because the doctor over harvested, or get a discount of $500 on a procedure costing over $10,000, compared to Pats205's situation (or Shane) who, not only is being asked to represent the Armani clinic with a suit and meet with prospects and who no doubt gets much much more than $500 to do his job.

Everything is relative.

Originally posted by hopefull:

On the other hand i am almost certain that most clinics do that

I am sure most clinics offer discount/free grafts to patients for allowing the pictures be taken and published, as well as publishing progression through a web log. There is nothing wrong with that since they don't require patients to omit publishing negative results. They don't require patients to sign something ridiculous like this Armani's contract either.

Dr.Armani, on the other hand, forbids patients from disclosing/commenting if their result is bad. That is unethical. Perhaps Dr. Aramni is not sufficiently confident in his competence that he includes this clause in the contract.

Originally posted by M&M:

Originally posted by Pats205:

Originally posted by Balboa:

i cannot see anything witch is so DRAMATIC about the contract yes PATS205 is someone who has been given a free HT for basicly WORKING for Armani other people work for Armani get cash what diffrence does it make i have read through the contract and there isnt anything that bad or shocking about it realy businesses have to target all avenues to get customers and asking someone to post there HT results for a free HT isnt shady in anyways i dont see what all the fuss is about

 

Agreed, I asked for proof to validate the claims that we PAY POSTERS to come in and post on forums. All that is presented is a blank version of my independent contract again and again. I'm sorry but that is not enough to substantiate the claims being made.

Pats,

If what Pat the Publisher showed is in fact your contract, then I'd love to see you "bi-weekly (every 2 weeks) progress pictures up to 15 months" per '2b' of the contract.

Pats205:

Also per clause 8 on page 3 of the contract, you agree to not post any negative remarks about Dr. Armani. Is it the reason why you don't post the updates of the FUE procedure? Is it because you had low growth?

Originally posted by wantego:

Pats205,

After reading this thread I saw some first time posters defending Dr Armani had registered yesterday and come directly in to posting in to this thread. Was that more than coincidental? Have you ever spoken to those posters off this board?

He probably went to seek some help from his buddies mmaguy, mj2003, jtelecom, gac...the usual suspects...

Originally posted by Mike Haddad:

Hi everyone. I'm new here. I'm considering hair transplant as I am receding from the front and I have a thin crown. I am considering Armani.

By reading this forum, I kinda fell into that negative propaganda about the Aramani clinic but then I only judge from what I see.

 

I lived and worked in Dubai for 3 years. I had one friend and one collegue who had HT at Armani. they both had great and undetectable results and that is why I opted for Armani.

I just moved to Montreal. I'm planning a trip to Toronto for consultation with Armani. By chance, my hair dresser, who works in a reputable hair saloon in downtown montreal also turned out that he had a HT with Aramani about 5 months ago. (can't see his final results yet, but it seems he's getting there)

Now, to change my opinion about Aramani and to go for another clinic: I need to see in my bare eyes, at least 3 Aramani patients who had bad results.

MikeHaddad:

I don't know about you, but one bad result for me if enough to run away.

Keeping up with your logic, you had seen 2 patients with great result from Dr. Armani. If you see 2 patients with bad results, that would not scare you from going to see him. That is an average of 50%! Do it at your own risk my friend.

Originally posted by PLEASE GROW PLEASE:

Ive never seen anyone dig themselves in such a big hole and they dont even know it yet

Hes already been led to the slaughter just waiting to sharpen the machete.

Pats 205 has already lied 2 1/2 times on here to me yet called me a liar when Im being 100% honest.

 

Pats205,

How many additional nails you need in the coffin before saying mea culpa? Does Dr. Armani pay you enough in order to suffer such abuse here?

I agree with Bill, you already defaulted on your contract. Where are the bi weekly updates?

As fars as showing results, I would love to be able to show Armani Fue results. I have several cases with photos but my hands are tied as I am afraid that would be considered promotional for the clinic I represent and against forums regulations. There is nothing I can do about that.

Pats205: I have seen those photos that you have. Most of them, in my opinion, are biased with lighting, angles, hair wet, strip results (instead of FUE) etc...

What we need are actual hair loss web log from actual patients with details pre-operative and post-operative photos. Why don't you encourage your patients to do it? Better yet, why don't you just start with your own hair loss web log. Thanks.

But to say Bad Fue results seem to be the norm is flat out untrue.

Same as claiming that the average Norwood VI patients have 15,000 grafts available? Or that FUE is non-surgical? or that density of 140 (or 110) grafts per cm square can be achieved?

You said that poor FUE results from Dr. Armani seems to be norm, rather than the exception??? Please tell me how you came to that conclusion. I will ask you to provide these several cases that you have backing up this statement. Otherwise it is another blanket statement made not supported by any factual evidence.

Pats205:

There you go again. It is not up to me to show you the proof of bad results. It is up to you and Dr. Armani to show and document your good results. That said, I did not base my opinion on thin air. I have seen quite a few cases of bad results on HLH but unfortunately they are now either gagged, deleted or paid off. Why do you think the discussion heats up when Dr.Armani is mentioned?

Like Plese Grow Please said, when are you going to show us your FUE results? It might shut my mouth.

On this forum, bad results are not taken lightly, regardless whether it is from Dr. Armani or anybody else. These doctors are held accountable. Martinnyc71 says he had a bad result from Dr. Armani and therefore the doctor must provide answers. However, his mouthpiece Pats205 comes here and makes outrageous claims that Dr. Armani never had a results of less than 80% growth. It is then normal that questions and issues are raised.

In all fairness, I would like to see Martinnyc71 result/pics to assess the work. However, his case seems credible as bad FUE cases from Dr. Armani seems to be norm, rather than the exception. This coupled with the fact that Dr. Armani's army of lawyers are threatening left and right legal actions to silence critics (including patients), not sharing his pics may be understandable. It is not really up to the patients or veteran members of this community to prove Dr. Armani performed poorly. All doctors are assumed to be incompetent until proven otherwise, with consistent results shown. So far, Dr. Armani did not pass this competency level. I would love to have see some real Dr.Armani's patients posting their pictures and results (especially the good results) here.

Pat205:

Why did Dr. Armani switch to FUE only anyway? He could have just offer this option to those pusillanimous who are too afraid of getting a strip scar, while keeping the strip option to the other patients? Drs. Feller, Rassman, True, Shapiro among others, are doing this way.

I actually find it hard to believe that Armani can have expensive clinics all over the world and produce consistantly inferior results, but you do seem to avoid questions...

It is called marketing my friend. It is like saying it is hard to believe that Microsoft is producing bad softwares.

I believe Dr. Armani was a good doctor at one point, when he used to perform strip surgeries. The results were spectacular and there were many pics showing these results. However, it was going downhill since he switched to FUE only a couple years ago. Not only that, he expanded quite a bit, opening offices here and there (sort of like a mini Bosley) and hired other trainee doctors (his sister Sara, MacMillan among others) to do the work for him. On top of that, he delegated a great deal of work to technicians. I think he is the only FUE doctor who does not perform the most important task in a FUE surgery: FUE extraction. It is no wonder why the results are inconsistent.

NICE PIC WITH FLASH 3 MONTHS + 1 WEEK POST OPP

NICE RES ON THIS SO YOU CAN ZOOM RIGHT INTO THE GRAFTS IF YOU SAVE THE IMAGE AND OPEN IN IN WINDOWS

Balboa:

It will be nice if you can create a hairloss web log here so that we can monitor your progress. Pre-op and immediately post-op pics are especially important.

You may be the FIRST (hard to believe right?)Armani's FUE patient that we can follow the progress. Good luck with growing.