Jim Jones

this is a great thread and glad i found it. i am worried that after 2 months, my grafts (about 80%+) are still in tact and don't seem to be growing. should i be worried that they will always stay this short and never actually grow unless they shed? i am anxious to hear experiences. thanks in advance

Are you referring to some or all of the grafts?

MOST OF THEM ... I THINK?

Did any of them shed 2 to 4 weeks after surgery?

THERE PROBABLY WAS, BUT NOTHING I WOULD HAVE NOTICED MEANING PROBABLY LITTLE TO NONE.

I probably should lighten up on that rogaine.

While my grafts are in tack and there was minimal shock loss to my native hair (so I think), it seems that the grafts are 1/4 of an inch, similar feel to a shave head when I slightly touch the grafts. They haven't shed yet and they are not growing. Is this normal for graft to not grow?

how many grafts was applied for 2k? certainly not bad for that investment.

oh sparky, i meant $5,000+ on propecia

bill,

i enjoyed reading your response. although it isn't what i want to hear, you are absolutely right. there is so much we can do. thus, 7000 graft [huge amount in my opinion] is not too much if you are BALD. i took propecia and have thinning hair on the middle and the crown is bad. i was hoping to part hair in the middle with shaggy hair, but it doesn't seem possible unless i want more surgery. bottom line is propecia did save the hair i had -- otherwise i would be extremely BALD. i can use toppik and comb down with nobody really noticing. if i part in the middle, it is near impossible. so i guess 2500 grafts (6000 hair) is not much. 10% on main area assuming that 100% stay in tact

My final advice is DO NOT waste a dime on the product. Use the laser of your mouse computer, or something far cheaper. I mean the idea sounds innovative -- light promotes growth and healing. I just don't think the technology is sufficient yet for laser treatment. Buy an iPhone.

Dumb question : are the grafts your actual hair or do they fall out and then new hairs arise? I thought it was the latter so that each graft than falls, there may be a shot at getting 1,2 or 3 new hairs.

So I'm beginning to understand that the graft is your new hair that's with you forever. If that's the case, then that sucks because I look practically the same. Again, I am missing something trivial with hair loss even though I have battled it almost half my life.

After all my cynicism, I might finally come up in this fight. Propecia may have saved my hair, but losing at mid-teens was devastating. I truly hope that the grafts stay and will continue to be gentle to the area and apply Rogaine liberally (3x per day -- see my question I posted on the forum my reasoning for this). I stressed out by reading "ok - bad" reviews about Dr. Ziering. I can understand the ethics of the person, but hey, if he's the best, then perhaps $15,000 for 2500 grafts (or less, who knows) might have been the best investment considering I already spent $50,000+ on Propecia alone. As HT patients know, that usually will continue unless I get sick of the money and "mild" side-effects". I question Proscar (even distributed) and it would be a pain to find a cool doc to write the script. I know my current one wouldn't.

Thanks for the uplift. Hopefully I will get lucky.

One thing i should add is TOLERANCE. If you take Rogaine for [say 3 times per day], then if you taper down to twice a day later on, your body may not be as sensitive to the drug. I can afford this foam and will keep using it 3 times since the half-life is 4.2 hours and it is much more convenient than the liquid. I figure that will not only maintain hair very well, but might even promote some growth [a reputation even makers of Rogaine begin to acknowledge, "keep the hair you have" -- "use it or lose it". We all Rogaine is mostly for maintain, but some lucky ones do achieve "some" growth, peach fuss, or thickness of existing hair.

Hey Bill,

Thanks for the reply. With all due respect, what does "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" mean? It must be slang

In any case, it sounds like it isn't bad news.

hmmm... it seems like i may have lost shed some grafts, but many are still there. i am 4 week post-opt. i have no idea if grafts still in place will slow or expedite the growing process. actually, i don't care how long it times as long as my growth is significant

2500 grafts from Dr. Ziering = $15,000

i agree that the laser is NOT a great product (close to snake oil). with that being said, it does "seem" to halt loss and make your scalp healthier for products like rogaine. moreover, it seems to make hair thicker and at least shinier. i don't think growth will occur at all and $3,900 is way too much money and time for this therapy. i wasted $500 on the laser comb which i stopped using when i bought two years ago after 4 months. i only started again liberally because of my HT

that's a relief. it does seem they are growing. i'm about 3 weeks post opt. thanks for your feedback

It has been about 3 weeks and no sign of my new grafts falling out. Earlier I was happy -- now I'm concerned as I recognize that they should fall. Perhaps too much rogaine and laser therapy? What is the deal?

hairlust : how much did Peterson cost you? he retired years ago. i got ripped off, and if I do like my results, then I'll make par. too bad the price was so high $6/graft and i thought "Dr. Ziering" was the best ... i won't stress, it's done

i would say 1200 to 2500, depending on your goals. You have good coverage in general, and just need fill in on crown area somewhat. It's mostly your front. Overall, that should be your range to think about. Not bad overall m8.

I apply some rogaine on my receding area. It could be psychological, but I could swear the process seems to halt any further loss. If you have a transplant, it is loss important to get the regions of native hair so that it won't fall off from the shock loss. [but you should wait 10 days after HT]

I'm not a doctor and I'm just sharing my experience.

Yes, experts say only twice daily. Yes, experts say only apply in the crown area. I definitely could say that the price is more if you apply more and more often. But my theory is that Minoxidil has a half life of 4.2 hours. So if you are dedicated and can afford it, then apply to your crown and receding areas 2 or 3 times (morning, noon and evening). I do not get any skin irritation. Furthermore, it may benefit to do a little extra after the HT. Wasteful? Wise? What is your take on this?

I read somewhere that this could be damaging. I know that I used to shower everyday without shampoo (for as long as three days because I had toppik), but now after my HT, I have done so liberally. On my days off, is it okay to just shower without shampoo and apply rogaine? I know that if toppik is in my hair, then I should shower it off ASAP. Any feedback will help. Thanks.

you are scaring me [though you are correct about Dr. Ziering ethics]. I'll just think positive i guess. On the bright side, I never heard complaints on the results. The complaints are mainly ethics and the cost per graft $6. I don't care if he is greedy -- all i want is my transplant to look nice.

I emphatically agree that it is NOT a walk in the park to get a proscar prescription. If you buy online, there's always the risk of counterfeit. Can anybody recommend what they did to procure proscar in the US? I have been taking propecia for almost 11 years daily, and perhaps it is time for a change so long as results are the same. I have the money, but I am sick of paying 60$ a month on propecia. please help.

"True" bipolar people are hard to deal. [i said this because everyone to some degree varies with mood. Bipolars do act spontaneous and really don't think clear. Either get them on proper meds and comfort then if you care for them or just hightail.

Is this normal for Propecia users!?

Unfortunately, it is. Merek claim 2% reversible, but others claim as high as 20% NOT reversible. I think it's somewhere in between -- even Wikipedia admits breast tenderness as a symptom. I hope that there is a strategy to get surgery and have it not reoccur. That is my goal, and then I believe I'll be at peace. I'm no Michael Jackson in terms of fixing things like my face. It would be nice to wear t-shirts without thought or some flab, especially when I've exercised really hard. The people that get gynecomastia are people that used to take steroids, or even just work out. But when you stop, you get muscle atrophy and thus a slugging effect happens. Gernelly chubby people have it, but it blends in with their bodies and it doesn't look disproportional. For years I thought I can run several miles a day and eliminate fat in unwanted areas. Anyway, back to original thread as we got side tracked. Anyone have the connection between hormone drugs like propecia and gynecomastia on their minds. Thanks for sharing Yomommyz.

frank2097 :

just curious, how did you get your doctor to prescribe proscar? I think I may try this because propecia is too expensive every month.

If your lifestyle wasn't healthy, then gynecomastia (the sagging chest) is a permanent deal for a majority that loose lots amount of weight in a short period (I didn't know this until recently). Unfortanutely, only surgery will remove the tissue.

Check out gynecomastic.org

This may be different for those who are slender or have a good metabolism where fat or tissue only accumulates on the chest area. Some have it in their belly or even their ass. I don't think a vegan can lose unwanted fat/tissue. There's an entire forum that contradict the philosophy of daily propecia use.

Your religion makes perfect sense and I've asked something to myself (but not verbatim), but this society is cruel to allow scrutiny for women to not wear make-up. I guess is sheer vanity in a pragmatic sense. Everybody is different, but personally I want to look better only for myself. Who knows, this may be the only life human live.

i am not a doctor, but i have been taking propecia for close to 11 years now. i have been taking rogaine for 5 years, and rogaine form about 2 years religiously. from personal experience, i know many things. i have a mild case of gynecomastia, enough to bother me. i'm not even sure if this was caused by propecia [similarily : proscar, avodart, etc.]

i don't have a smoking gun, but my suspicion is you are more susceptible to having a larger "saggy" male chest no matter how hard you work out in the gym. after the HT, the surgeon encourages that you keep taking the drug (propecia) for life to prevent further loss. the top surgeons for gynecomastia advices you to stop propecia completely. in that respect, it's a CATCH 22 -- either you are bald or you have man boobs. the greedy westerner i am, i don't want neither. anyone else in this predicament? any advice