Doctors bypassing your input

[PerfectFew]

Obviously, fear is what is motivating such a site.

 

Not true. Reputable physicians are trying to get out of paying THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to Jotronic to become "fit". In my opinion, promoting doctors by taking their money and pretending to be an advocate is a scam. Jotronic will likely delete this post, but if I can save one person from taking bogus advice, I have done my part.

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by Pat - Publisher of this Community:

As the previous posts make clear, the members of this forum know the score and easily see this Hair Club for Doctors for what it is - a desperate attempt to mimic this community minus any real standards or accountability. It was not created to serve patients but rather to disempower them.

 

Many doctors fear the control that this community has over livelihoods.

 

 

Not true. Most reputable physicians are abandoning this site due to the facade of advocacy it claims to be. When Jotronic's paycheck gets dwindled to nothing, then the real voices of patients will come out.

 

Many leading physicians get between 1/3 to 1/2 of all their new patients from this community. I can understand their fear of being removed. Perhaps they feel they will be able to huddle together in a group that has no standards or accountability.

 

That is a bogus fact with no basis in reality. Very few reputable physicians want to be associated with this site, and are taking measures to get out of being extorted.

So in addition to having no visibility the Hair Loss Doctor List of good old boys has no credibility.

 

 

Ask the people who invented the follicular unigraft hair transplant if that is true. Credibility comes from real doctors, not paid schills.

 

Posting photos of true world class results for physicians who aren't in their club would make this point. Then just in case this Hair Club for Doctors buys enough click through ads to attract visitors they'll know what real results look like.

 

 

You will find only reputable, ethical physicians on the other site. The number is growing, and Jotronics paycheck will show it. Actually having real criteria for being judged reputable is what is important. Not paying extortion.

 

I don't see such posts as support for this site or its forum.

 

Why support extortion?

 

standards for inclusion on the Hair Transplant Network

 

"standards for inclusion on this "network" = $$$$$$$$$ THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS!!!!

 

Hasson, Wong, Feller, Shapiro, Rahal, Epstien etc?

 

 

I visited Hasson and Wong & Shapiro for a consultation. ***EXCEPT FOR SHAPIRO*** Their results are substandard. I suggest you go see their work, then go see others. Don't take the word of this forum. All of those doctors pay THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS to get promoted here. Don't be had. Please, I beg you to go do your own homework.

 

P.S. When I get time I'll share with this community how Dr. Dow Stough and Dr. Tony Mangubaut (former President of the ISHRS and creator of a device that cuts all grafts with one hammer blow by driving dozens of razor blades into a strip of donor tissue) attempted to ambush me and Farrell Manne (publisher of Hair Loss Help) during a physicians meeting about the Internet and its dangers. This new site is only a chapter in a long sad saga of doctors fighting the inevitable process of patient's critiquing them.

 

Yes, like doctors who invented it, perform great work and charge less. The critics on this site are PAID TO ENDORSE THE OTHER DOCTORS!!! DON'T BE FOOLED. Please do your own homework!!!!!!

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by Jotronic:

would have you believe that even though Pat, Spencer and Farrel are literally begging them to join their organizations they do not only because they do not wish to pay any "outrageous" fees thus explaining away their lack of participation in any forums. What they are not telling you is that they either applied and were turned down or were members at one time and got the boot.

 

Tell the truth Jotronic. They refuse to pay your THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS. Why don't you just tell people how much you charge to be a member of the "elite"?

 

What better truth in advertising is there than showing your great results and having patients post their experiences? What better truth than having independent organizations helping patients to match up with docs that deliver? What better truth is there than making your clinic transparent? The complaint above includes mention of memberhip fees to be included on lists yet they themselves also charge a fee... Hair Loss Doctors List has simple criteria to be listed and Physicians pay a modest fee to be listed.

 

How much do you charge Jotronic? Please tell your members!!! I know the answer and I am disgusted that you are not telling them the truth!

 

6. Ethical Standards: Hair Loss Doctor List will maintain high ethical standards and will not tolerate unethical behavior in the Forum. For example blogging or posting by paid employees or independent contractors of a hair transplant physician/practice which is been prevalent on other sites and is highly unethical and will not be tolerated here.

 

I'd like to know what the difference is between posting by consultants and posting by doctors. This is saying that most of YOU, the participants in this and other forums, are actually employees in disguise. Why? Because you are passionate about your results and the clinic that gave them to you.

 

 

The difference is that by using schills to pretend, you are not getting the truth. Consultants = sales people. This site allows and supports this phony tactic. PEOPLE PLEASE DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH!!!!

 

Here are a couple of the criteria listed for membership.

 

1.) Member must be a member in good standing of the ISHRS for a minimum of 3 years.

 

Why? What influence could this have?

 

That is the only reputable hair transplant association in the world. Doctors there are peer reviewed by each other and actually discuss science and reality. They don't extort.

 

In summary, what this site is doing is trying to bypass accountability

 

Nope. Just trying to bypass extortion.

a few other "independent" sites dominated by YOU the patients

 

 

When you start sharing the THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS YOUR RECIEVE for promoting doctors with your members, you can call this forum "independent".

 

It was because of CONSULTANT, not because of what a doctor told me because it was a doctor that got me into hair loss trouble to begin with.

 

Understand that this does not affect me in a professional manner. It does affect me in a personal manner and I feel it is important for you guys to know what some doctors really think about being transparent to you, the public.

Jotronic - this affects your paycheck. The days of extorting ethical physicians are numbered. The days of promoting unethical doctors and practices is numbered.

 

Please tell people how much money you charge each "elite" doctor on your site. TRUTH IN ADVERTISING!!!

[Gorpy]

Perfect,

While I always enjoy seeing a variety of opinions, I want to clarify something you seem to be confused about. Jotronic is a paid employee of Hasson & Wong and yes, he does advertise and promoted them (on this site and others). But he is not a recipient of pay from this site. Pat is the owner of this site, not Jotronic. Pat is the one who makes money off of this site.

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by Gorpy:

Perfect,

While I always enjoy seeing a variety of opinions, I want to clarify something you seem to be confused about. Jotronic is a paid employee of Hasson & Wong and yes, he does advertise and promoted them (on this site and others). But he is not a recipient of pay from this site. Pat is the owner of this site, not Jotronic. Pat is the one who makes money off of this site.

 

Thanks for the clarification. I am mistaken. I guess my comments should be directed towards Pat.

 

Jotronic posts so much here that I naturally assumed he was paid for it (almost 1000 posts). My mistake.

[the B spot]

Perfect Few-- what is the nature of your relationship with the website in question?

 

In addition, there is no costs involved in running such a website?

 

No hosting fees?

 

What if the site goes down?

 

Who is moderating the site?

 

Your logic is faulty because you believe that Pat making a few bucks in a capitalist market is somehow wrong.

 

Are Dr.'s Limmer, Cooley, Nusbaum or Harris handing out free transplants?

 

No. Is there anything wrong with that? No.

 

Now the problem I have with you is that your spouting about patient care and all of this other garbage, when the site you are associated is completely FLAWED in it's membership requirements.

 

As far as membership dues, what about the ISHRS?

 

Oh, but that group is made up of doctors right?

 

So it must be perfect right?

 

The power of the written word and a vehicle to display it are very terrifying to those who can no longer keep up, isn't it?

 

I reiterate, no problem with those who do not wish to seek Coalition membership.

 

However, state the truth for what it is--- Limmer has hardly benefitted from this site, Nusbaum is new, Cooley has benefitted, and Harris is an FUE afterthought as this point.

Dow Stough is stuck reading his long list of "accomplishments" that he forgets that times change and people expect more these days.

 

Weinstein and Rousso?

Goertz?

 

Who could look at the work these doctors do and associate with them?

 

Could you honestly refer a patient to them in good conscience?

 

Bernstein is a good doc, except he hides under "conservative" and charges so much money to do anything, he is a waste of time.

 

Now, I read in one of your self-righteous posts where you state that Pat is not a doctor and neither are any of the members.

 

Why does that matter?

 

If you have a problem with non-doctors, why don't you visit the Limmers?

 

Neither one of the actually do any transplanting anymore.

 

They draw lines and remove tissue on patients and then supervise their "stick and place" drones completing the process of transplantation.

 

At 3 per graft and 2 patients a day, you gotta speed it up right?

 

Oh, but it isn't about money.......

 

You don't know what your talking about.

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by the B spot:

Perfect Few-- what is the nature of your relationship with the website in question?

 

 

I am a patient recipient of follicular hair transplant.

In addition, there is no costs involved in running such a website?

 

No hosting fees?

 

What if the site goes down?

 

Who is moderating the site?

 

 

The costs for running a web site are extremely cheap. I can show you at least 100 hosting companies that will host a site for less than $100 per month. If the site goes down, you reboot the server. Moderation of the site is done by the site owner.

 

Your logic is faulty because you believe that Pat making a few bucks in a capitalist market is somehow wrong.

 

 

I think it is great when HONEST people make a few bucks.

 

Are Dr.'s Limmer, Cooley, Nusbaum or Harris handing out free transplants?

 

No. Is there anything wrong with that? No.

 

Now the problem I have with you is that your spouting about patient care and all of this other garbage, when the site you are associated is completely FLAWED in it's membership requirements.

 

As far as membership dues, what about the ISHRS?

 

 

The ISHRS is the only reputable HT organization in the world. Ask all of the doctors in Pat's "recommendation" and "coalition" why they are all members.

 

Oh, but that group is made up of doctors right?

 

So it must be perfect right?

 

 

Yes, doctors. Nope, not perfect.

 

The power of the written word and a vehicle to display it are very terrifying to those who can no longer keep up, isn't it?

 

 

That means nothing to me. I am using the Internet to discuss this right now. It is neither terrifying, nor are the words that I read. I can keep up just fine, thank you.

 

I reiterate, no problem with those who do not wish to seek Coalition membership.

 

However, state the truth for what it is--- Limmer has hardly benefitted from this site, Nusbaum is new, Cooley has benefitted, and Harris is an FUE afterthought as this point.

Dow Stough is stuck reading his long list of "accomplishments" that he forgets that times change and people expect more these days.

 

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. Bobby Limmer invented follicular unit transplant. His opinion matters far more than yours.

 

By the way, you seem to know so much about how those doctors have benefitted. Are you being paid to post here? Let me know please.

Weinstein and Rousso?

Goertz?

 

Who could look at the work these doctors do and associate with them?

 

Could you honestly refer a patient to them in good conscience?

 

Bernstein is a good doc, except he hides under "conservative" and charges so much money to do anything, he is a waste of time.

 

Now, I read in one of your self-righteous posts where you state that Pat is not a doctor and neither are any of the members.

 

Why does that matter?

 

If you have a problem with non-doctors, why don't you visit the Limmers?

 

Neither one of the actually do any transplanting anymore.

 

They draw lines and remove tissue on patients and then supervise their "stick and place" drones completing the process of transplantation.

 

At 3 per graft and 2 patients a day, you gotta speed it up right?

 

Oh, but it isn't about money.......

 

You don't know what your talking about.

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by PerfectFew:

Originally posted by the B spot:

Perfect Few-- what is the nature of your relationship with the website in question?

 

 

I am a patient recipient of follicular hair transplant.

In addition, there is no costs involved in running such a website?

 

No hosting fees?

 

What if the site goes down?

 

Who is moderating the site?

 

 

The costs for running a web site are extremely cheap. I can show you at least 100 hosting companies that will host a site for less than $100 per month. If the site goes down, you reboot the server. Moderation of the site is done by the site owner.

 

Your logic is faulty because you believe that Pat making a few bucks in a capitalist market is somehow wrong.

 

 

I think it is great when HONEST people make a few bucks.

 

Are Dr.'s Limmer, Cooley, Nusbaum or Harris handing out free transplants?

 

No. Is there anything wrong with that? No.

 

Now the problem I have with you is that your spouting about patient care and all of this other garbage, when the site you are associated is completely FLAWED in it's membership requirements.

 

As far as membership dues, what about the ISHRS?

 

 

The ISHRS is the only reputable HT organization in the world. Ask all of the doctors in Pat's "recommendation" and "coalition" why they are all members.

 

Oh, but that group is made up of doctors right?

 

So it must be perfect right?

 

 

Yes, doctors. Nope, not perfect.

 

The power of the written word and a vehicle to display it are very terrifying to those who can no longer keep up, isn't it?

 

 

That means nothing to me. I am using the Internet to discuss this right now. It is neither terrifying, nor are the words that I read. I can keep up just fine, thank you.

 

I reiterate, no problem with those who do not wish to seek Coalition membership.

 

However, state the truth for what it is--- Limmer has hardly benefitted from this site, Nusbaum is new, Cooley has benefitted, and Harris is an FUE afterthought as this point.

Dow Stough is stuck reading his long list of "accomplishments" that he forgets that times change and people expect more these days.

 

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. Bobby Limmer invented follicular unit transplant. His opinion matters far more than yours.

 

By the way, you seem to know so much about how those doctors have benefitted. Are you being paid to post here? Let me know please.

Weinstein and Rousso?

Goertz?

 

 

I am not getting paid to post here. I am doing it because this site is not being true to its readers.

 

Who could look at the work these doctors do and associate with them?

 

 

I can tell you that Pat hasn't looked at Goertz' work. I have. It is incredible, which is why he has one of the best practices in the world.

 

Could you honestly refer a patient to them in good conscience?

 

 

I have referred multiple people to visit with Goertz and I didn't get paid a dime for it. I will not refer to the other two because I don't know them.

Why does that matter?

 

Because he is not disclosing the truth. I did.

 

If you have a problem with non-doctors, why don't you visit the Limmers?

 

Neither one of the actually do any transplanting anymore.

 

 

What does that have to do with anything?

 

They draw lines and remove tissue on patients and then supervise their "stick and place" drones completing the process of transplantation.

 

At 3 per graft and 2 patients a day, you gotta speed it up right?

 

 

Trained technicians should be placing the grafts. Most doctors (including many recommended by Pat) do not place the grafts themselves.

 

Oh, but it isn't about money.......

 

You don't know what your talking about.

 

Yes I do. Come see for yourself.

[the B spot]

Yep, pretty much what I thought.

 

The ISHRS is an organization that meets and debates hair transplantation.

 

In fact, the only difference between the ISHRS and the Coalition is that the ISHRS accepts ANYONE who can afford the dues.

 

Now I like how you skipped over my posts about the Limmers....nice.

 

In addition, an opinion, is just that, opinion.

 

Bobby Limmer may have invented follicular unit transplantation, but that is about where he left it.

 

After his "invention" and the unwillingness to allow his TECHS to transplant over 40 fu's cm/2, I guess he pretty much got passed up, huh?

 

Why don't you just admit what this is?

 

Victor Hasson, Jerry Wong and Ron Shapiro have left the entire field in the dust, and that hurts a little doesn't it?

 

You see, when a Doctor possesses strength of character, he or she is willing to take on any challenge and willingly accepts questions/criticism from medical and non-medical people equally, and can respond without rancor.

 

So when you say Bobby Limmer's opinion matters far more than mine--- you expose yourself and those you support for what they are-- the "good old boys club"

 

This is the information age buddy, and I daresay that people exist online WHO ARE NOT DOCTORS whose opinion would carry more weight

with HAIRLOSS SUFFERERS than Limmer's ever did or will.

 

That is the power of the internet.

 

Instead of using it to help and support what we do here, you wish to go back to the dark ages of hair transplantation.

 

It is not going to happen--- if one of your pet docs F's up or doesn't cut the mustard, people need to know about it and discuss and debate it.

 

BTW, you seem to know a lot about who is paying what and why doctors feel the way they do. Are you being paid to post online?

 

Oh, and for the record, I do ALL of my work for free.

 

my JOB is to make sure that my fellow balding suffering brothers get help and advice that enables them to choose a great doc, Coalition, Recommended or otherwise.

 

Every day I save someone from going to a butcher, is a GREAT day for me.

 

So you see, perhaps my opinion matters a bit more than you think.

 

J

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by the B spot:

Yep, pretty much what I thought.

 

The ISHRS is an organization that meets and debates hair transplantation.

 

In fact, the only difference between the ISHRS and the Coalition is that the ISHRS accepts ANYONE who can afford the dues.

 

The ISHRS provides benefits to patients and physicians. Thats the difference. OBTW - How much do they charge? How are the dues taken care of? BIG DIFFERENCE

 

Now I like how you skipped over my posts about the Limmers....nice.

 

In addition, an opinion, is just that, opinion.

 

Bobby Limmer may have invented follicular unit transplantation, but that is about where he left it.

 

After his "invention" and the unwillingness to allow his TECHS to transplant over 40 fu's cm/2, I guess he pretty much got passed up, huh?

 

Why don't you just admit what this is?

 

Funny, Pat doesn't seem to think so. He recommends him, otherwise why would he take his money could it be Pat disagrees with his own "standards". By the way, don't bad mouth Limmer. His is incredible in his field and what he has contributed. He doesn't need to transplant anymore.

 

Victor Hasson, Jerry Wong and Ron Shapiro have left the entire field in the dust, and that hurts a little doesn't it?

 

You see, when a Doctor possesses strength of character, he or she is willing to take on any challenge and willingly accepts questions/criticism from medical and non-medical people equally, and can respond without rancor.

 

So when you say Bobby Limmer's opinion matters far more than mine--- you expose yourself and those you support for what they are-- the "good old boys club"

 

I don't know Bobby Limmer, and I'm not part of the "good old boys club". I don't get paid to tell the truth here. H & W are just physicians. What have they contributed? I consulted there and didn't like the results that I saw. I didn't like the phony sales pitches I was seeing here by there "consultants" (paid sales people). As a satisfied patient with great results, I will recommend my doctor free of charge! I don't need $16000 per year to do it.

 

This is the information age buddy, and I daresay that people exist online WHO ARE NOT DOCTORS whose opinion would carry more weight

with HAIRLOSS SUFFERERS than Limmer's ever did or will.

 

That is the power of the internet.

And your point is? Paid "consultants" and paid "recommendations" are not real opinions and they carry very little weight when people discover THE TRUTH.

 

Instead of using it to help and support what we do here, you wish to go back to the dark ages of hair transplantation.

 

It is not going to happen--- if one of your pet docs F's up or doesn't cut the mustard, people need to know about it and discuss and debate it.

 

BTW, you seem to know a lot about who is paying what and why doctors feel the way they do.

 

Yes I do. I did my research. I am not now, nor have I ever been in the "dark ages of hair transplantation". My doctor cut the mustard nicely, thank you. Before you say anything about a doctor, why not talk to him in person? Why not VISIT HIS CLINIC. Pat recommends many physicians that he has never met. His "standards" are bunk. He is not telling people the truth.

 

Are you being paid to post online?

 

Nope. See the difference?

 

Oh, and for the record, I do ALL of my work for free.

Great!

my JOB is to make sure that my fellow balding suffering brothers get help and advice that enables them to choose a great doc, Coalition, Recommended or otherwise.

 

Me too. I want people to find out that sometimes they are being duped. Much like what is happening here.

 

Every day I save someone from going to a butcher, is a GREAT day for me.

So you see, perhaps my opinion matters a bit more than you think.

 

Good for you. I am sure you research all of your physicians by visiting there clinic, talking with their patients and witnessing the results. Or maybe you are just talking out of the side of your arse.

 

[the B spot]

Well, I guess I had you all wrong then.

 

I thought you were a two-bit sleaze posting on behalf of a third-rate doc for pay, trying to undermine one of the only hair loss sites that offer patients a great help in making a decision that lasts a lifetime.

 

A site that has seen docs get thrown off for poor work, such as DeYarman and Williams, regardless of their dues.

 

Glad to see your a true patient advocate and not any of the things I posted above.

 

Take Care,

J

[Jotronic]

Wowzers!

 

I'm off on my merry way today to help a friend with a network cable run and I come back this evening to learn that I'm making thousands of dollars from several docs. Where is this bank account??? I want in!!!!

 

Now to the serious post.

 

Perfectfew/Dr. Goertz,

 

After reading your misguided diatribe I have suspicions about your identity. I think Pat should run an IP search to see if your are connecting through an ISP in the greater Seattle/Bellevue area. After registering here a few months ago I would think it to be blatantly obvious that Pat is the publisher of this website and not me. Furthermore your disingenuous response to Gorpy stating that you are merely mistaken about me is insulting in the least therefore I am asking you for a sincere apology. After such an effort to discredit me (even mistakenly) that would warrant the development of carpal tunnel syndrome I would think this to be an easy task.

 

I won't go into why I'm not a "consultant" with the implication of being no better than the stereotypical used car salesman. My record stands strong as being a patient that finally got what he always wanted after nine years of misery and has gone on to help others as a profession. Life could NOT be better.

[DonnaB]

While I was recovering from my transplant (and it has been a process)--I missed this big issue. I have read between the lines and followed the threads and found this entire forum both to have some excellent infromation but also to have what I belive to be some schills. Personal stories have always been one of the best means to influence someone to buy. It is the consumer's responsibility to wisely research what they are buying. Individuals who report problems only to have their post followed with recommendations about their physicians or an immediate NEW post with a "wonderful" experience are obvious to me. I don't believe for a minute that there are not a few "patients" on any network who have benefitted by a physician incentive for their referrals. It should be obvious to participants to anticipate that this occurs. It doesn't mean that all of the information and posts are not valid though. Truth will prevail and the wider this forum the better to ensure this. Read the posts and see if they feel real and make sense. If everyone is rosy about their experience-beware. A GOOD open forum will have a curve of experiences, outcomes and a variety of questions/responses.

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by Jotronic:

Wowzers!

 

I'm off on my merry way today to help a friend with a network cable run and I come back this evening to learn that I'm making thousands of dollars from several docs. Where is this bank account??? I want in!!!!

 

Now to the serious post.

 

Perfectfew/Dr. Goertz,

 

After reading your misguided diatribe I have suspicions about your identity. I think Pat should run an IP search to see if your are connecting through an ISP in the greater Seattle/Bellevue area. After registering here a few months ago I would think it to be blatantly obvious that Pat is the publisher of this website and not me. Furthermore your disingenuous response to Gorpy stating that you are merely mistaken about me is insulting in the least therefore I am asking you for a sincere apology. After such an effort to discredit me (even mistakenly) that would warrant the development of carpal tunnel syndrome I would think this to be an easy task.

 

I won't go into why I'm not a "consultant" with the implication of being no better than the stereotypical used car salesman. My record stands strong as being a patient that finally got what he always wanted after nine years of misery and has gone on to help others as a profession. Life could NOT be better.

 

Please run an IP lookup of me. I am not now, nor have I ever been Dr. Goertz. I have suspicions about your identity (Jotronic/Pat/Hasson & Wong et al). By the way, I live in Gold Bar, Washington. My surgery was performed by Dr. Goertz in Bellevue, WA. He did an incredible job.

 

My apology to you: I am sorry for mistaking your identity. You seem to post here so much, I wonder about your identity. I'll be happy to prove mine. How about you? If you are not getting paid, I'm sorry. It really sucks to not be paid to be a schill for Pat's web site. I am sorry you are not sharing in the HUGE PROFITS he is making. I am happy that life for you is good. I once had no hair. Now I have lots, and it has completely changed my life. My results are great and I finally got what I want. I never had the "misery" of going to a bogus physician because I did TONS of research and didn't rely on just the anonymous opinions of people who post here.

 

Best Wishes

[Bill - Seemiller]

I have suspicions about your identity (Jotronic/Pat/Hasson & Wong et al).

 

Hahaha...well this is funny.

 

Considering many of us on this forum has met JoTronic personally, including me...your suspicion is just...funny.

 

Everybody here who has posted a lot have been well established for some time.

 

But who are you? You have come out of nowhere? I think it makes sense that people would be suspicious of you. But you come to a forum where people have been established posters for years and then are suspicious of us? Nobody here has anything to prove to you...this community will go on with or without you.

 

Bill

[Jotronic]

Bill,

 

You may have met me but that's what you're paid to say, anything and everything good about us to lure unsuspecting patients into our dark doors, LOL. Us and Dr. Shapiro, Alexander, Feller, etc., etc., so on and so on. We'll discuss more about this at the next secret meeting

[NervousNelly]

Mr Perfect,

 

I certainly use to have some of the same questions as you, but soon came to realize that Pat is a stand up guy that has capitalized on a much needed service. Who cares how much money he makes promoting this site as long as innocent patients are getting the knowledge they need to avoid being butchered by some hack. That is invaluable.

 

Bill has made a great point in that there are several well respected members that have posted here for years and you show up out of the blue and try to discredit this site. Do you think you'll have many followers?? We aren't idiots, we can see your intentions and know why it is you choose to slander this site and Pat.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Joe,

 

Don't be so OPEN about our secret meetings...I guess the jig is up now...see what you've done? Darn...and we had such a good thing going too...LOL.

 

Bill AKA JoTronic, Pat, B Spot, AND PERFECTFEW!!!!

 

I am sorry folks...

 

You see...You all know about my clone program at this point...well...

 

PerfectFew was the eventuality of an Anomaly, which, despite my sincerest efforts, I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control...This anomaly is systemic, creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations...thus...came about...PerfectFew

[MrJobi]

Hi

 

Just wanted to plug in my 2 cetns.. This forum is an extremely objective medium.. If a doctor is competent using the latest techniques, he/she gets the opportunity to express this. However, the reverse is valid as well and we see plenty of less than acceptable results resulting in a "bad reputation" .. I wouldn't have it any other way than the "customer" deciding whether or not a doctor is good enough to be considered an elite physician..

 

This prevents someone with a lot of money promoting themselves and delivering Butcher like performances.. We know who they are

[Aquarius]

I know why this is happening..There are some that don't post or can't, that are turning up the heat behind the scene and the shrimp are jumping.

I hope Pat realizes this. Wether he likes it or not he has become an advocate.

P.S. were is Spencer Kobren?............ Counting his money!

[M&M]

Originally posted by PerfectFew:

By the way, I live in Gold Bar, Washington. My surgery was performed by Dr. Goertz in Bellevue, WA. He did an incredible job.

 

I am happy that life for you is good. I once had no hair. Now I have lots, and it has completely changed my life. My results are great and I finally got what I want. I never had the "misery" of going to a bogus physician because I did TONS of research and didn't rely on just the anonymous opinions of people who post here.

 

Best Wishes

 

PerfectFew,

 

I couldn't resist chiming in after seeing your comments above that your 'results are great and I finally have what I want' ... because I did tons of research...".

 

Well, many, many years ago, I also believed that my results were great and that I did tons of research. I excluded all of the fly-by-night hair scams and ointments, I blew off a company in New Jersey that was going to staple hair to my scalp, and so I ended up with what I thought was the most reputable, largest company out there - Bosley. I continued to go back to Bosley as I was happy with my results because I didn't know any better. I didn't know how non-invasive and truly natural a hair transplant could be because I hadn't found this site and the truly impressive results one could attain. I almost would have gone back to them!

 

It's interesting that in all my searches on this site, HairLossHelp, etc., I never found your doctor or any impressive photos of his results.

 

So what kind of research did you do that landed you with your doctor?

 

Do you truly have what you want or are you convincing yourself of this as perhaps you have not seen the latest advances?

 

What is your definition of 'my results are great' - that the hair grew? Or that it is 100% natural and nobody could ever tell?

 

When was your surgery? How many grafts? What was the follicular count? How many surgeries? Do you have better photos that those posted 'on the other site'?

 

http://www.hairlossdoctorlist.com/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/sidebyside.jpg

 

http://www.hairlossdoctorlist.com/Portals/0/NTForums_Attach/dayofsurgery.jpg

[the B spot]

How come no one told me about the secret meeting?

 

Will there be punch and pie???

 

I hope so, because I get soooooooo tired counting all the money we make.

 

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Attention all covert members of the patient conspiracy Network, our elaborate ruse has been uncovered by Imperfect Few. I have evacuated my underground lair and I'm hovering in Hair Force One. Please begin evacuation sequence XKRK19 and erase all Photoshop simulations of impressive results and prepare to board Hair Force One for evacuation . . .

 

Imperfect Few, yes I have an active imagination too. But I don't make a habit of presenting my fantasies for reality online. Since you apparently are the new moderator/spin doctor over at Dr. Goertz's Hair Club for Doctors site, you should learn to get your facts straight before you litter our forum and yours with incorrect and venomous information.

 

Here are some actual facts:

 

The only physicians who have left this community during the past couple of years have been removed by me. Any physician who does not feel this community is of value to them or their patients is free to leave at any time. However, since this community has both high visibility and credibility those few who have been chosen have had the good sense to participate and sponsor this site.

 

Do I get paid? Yes, I do and I don't recall pretending to be the Mother Theresa of Hair (But I'll bet she took contributions in any case). Me and this community are not for sale. Physicians are presented here strictly based on their merit. They then pay a monthly sponsorship fee that over a full year amounts to the price of about one surgery (not the misrepresented and incorrect fees that you presented on your forum). This information is disclosed on our sites. These fees cover every thing from hosting, video production, graphics, ASP programming, online advertising and promotion, travel - to attorney bills for fighting frivolous law suits etc etc. During some years these expenses have exceeded revenue and I've actually lost money publishing this community.

 

Given the dozens of patients that most physicians garner from participating in this community their sponsorship fee is a tremendous value that has enabled them to cut their advertising expenses to the bone and even lower their prices. Frankly, the Internet and this community have been a tremendous windfall for the top clinics because they thrive in an environment where patients can measure the talk by the actual walk. The Internet has enabled many leading independent clinics to compete successfully with the national chain clinics.

 

The community is very tolerant of virtually all view points and I'm proud that it is extremely rare that we ever remove a member's posting privileges or posts. We believe that the best antidote to misinformation is a factual reply.

 

But clearly your motivation for being on this forum is to drop poison in the well. We can handle criticism. But should this community tolerate and host your malicious lies? Some times free speech has to be protected from online terrorists like you who would exploit the openness of this forum to poison it (yes, a little like terrorists using our own planes to fly through the open skies and into our buildings).

 

That you are apparently going to be the moderator of Dr. Goertz's forum indicates to me that your site is going to be an even bigger farce than I expected. I expect your community will burn up in the heat generated from all your resentment, anger and dishonesty.

 

I want to thank the many members of this community for their support. They know the score about this community and yours.

 

Welcome to the transparent world of the Web. Pat

[rp1979]

Pat,

 

Have you asked those certain coalition and recommended doctors on HTN, namely, Dr. Bernstein, Dr. Cooley, Dr. Limmer, Dr. Harris and Dr. Nusbaum why they have listed themselves on Hairlossdoctorlist.com ? If so what were their reasons?

 

Thanks.

RP

[PerfectFew]

Originally posted by rp1979:

Pat,

 

Have you asked those certain coalition and recommended doctors on HTN, namely, Dr. Bernstein, Dr. Cooley, Dr. Limmer, Dr. Harris and Dr. Nusbaum why they have listed themselves on Hairlossdoctorlist.com ? If so what were their reasons?

 

Thanks.

RP

 

I agree. Don't forget Dr. William Parsley.

 

Please Pat, enlighten us. One of your members "Bill" even went on the other site and posted lies saying they weren't listed here because they didn't meet your standards. What Bill did was probably slander, and could even warrent a defamation lawsuit.

 

The fact is, they are listed here. Can you enlighten the public forum here about why they would join the other site (hairlossdoctorlist.com)?

 

Can Bill enlighten us as to why he LIED in the other forum?