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Timothy Carman & William Reed's Ridiculous Pricing Chart

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Why is there not just a simple Price Chart? http://www.ljhr.com/price.php take a look.....

 

 

 

"Price is only the preliminary aspect of value. The other, more important component of value is quality. Please read further.

 

Length of Donor Area (centimeters) Number of Hairs Cost per Procedure Approx. # of Grafts* Cost per Hair Cost per Graft** 12 2400 $4,000 1000 $1.67 $4.00

14 2800 $4,400 1100 $1.57 $4.00

16 3200 $4,800 1200 $1.50 $4.00

20 4000 $5,400 1400 $1.35 $3.86

22 4400 $5,696 1500 $1.29 $3.80

24 4800 $5,996 1600 $1.25 $3.75

26 5200 $6,296 1700 $1.21 $3.70

28 5600 $6,496 1800 $1.16 $3.61

 

 

* This assumes 1 follicular unit of 2 hairs per squared millimeter of donor tissue and that 800 micro/follicular unit grafts are are included in the total graft count. The actual density of hair in the donor area varies easily 20% to both sides of this estimate so please do not assume the above table to be a guarantee of the number of grafts you will receive. It may more more; it may be fewer. We guarantee that we will harvest the donor length noted above, use the donor completely and plant all of grafts created.

 

** Since follicular unit grafts made by the most restrictive definition of Follicular Unit Transplantation average 2 hairs per graft, multiply the "cost per hair" by 2 to arrive at a competitive graft price if all of your grafts were follicular unit grafts"

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Aha! Hey Bill,glad someone agree's with me. Starring at that thing made me think i was going crazy! icon_eek.gif

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The table breaks down a lot of information:

 

1. The length of the strip

2. The # of hairs

3. The total cost

4. The # of grafts

5. The cost per hair

6. The cost per graft

 

Column 3: Cost per session

Column 4: # of grafts transplanted for that price

 

 

Chart.jpg


-------

 

All opinions are my own and my advice should not constitute as medical advice.

 

View my My Hair Loss Website

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I have a Ph.D. in Marketing (which means very little here, except that I get my summers off icon_razz.gif)

 

If I were a paid consultant for this practice, I would simply suggest to market the services at $4 per graft. Keeping it simple for the potential customer seems to be a good mantra.

 

If necessary, the practice could articulate to a potential client that there is a discount for longer donor hair - during the in-office consult.

 

The chart is a great breakdown, but I'd internalize it to the practice.

 

If Dr. Cayman & Dr. Reed want to implement my ideas, then they can donate 1/60th (it took me a minute and two gulps of Java) of my hourly fee to their favorite charity icon_smile.gif

 

Obviously they know their business and do great work.

 

Best to all!

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GOSH ITS BAD ENOUGH THAT 90%OF DRS DONT PUT ANY PRICES ON THERE WEBSITES WHICH MUST PUT LOADS OF POTENTIAL CLIENTS OFF BUT THIS WOW CALL ME THICK! but i havent got a clue what this chart is on about come on chaps we all know you do fantastic work and are very geniune helpful docs but please for all the thickos out there sort it out your loosing potential customers cheers guys


2 poor very poor UK ht's

2 world class repairs with Shapiro Medical Group

original thread

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.co...d.php?t=134995

Dr Paul's procedure http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1710

Dr Ron's procedure

http://www.hairtransplantnetwork.com/blog/home-page.asp?WebID=1128

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I think youngsuccess laid it out very nicely.

 

In a nutshell, it shows that larger sessions are discounted. As the size (length) of the strip increases, the number of grafts/hairs increase. As the number of grafts/hairs increase, the cost per hair and graft go down.

 

The only thing I don't like about this pricing chart is that each patient will have a different number of hairs per graft on average. Additionally, the projected number of hairs per graft is inconsistent as you go down the chart.

 

The 12cm scar assumes the patient has approximately 2.4 hairs per follicular unit (2400/1000), whereas the 28cm scar assumes the patient has approximately 3.1 hairs per follicular unit (well above average) - (5600/1800). The pattern seems to be, the longer the strip, the more hairs per graft they are approximating.

 

I'll email Dr. Reed and Dr. Carman for further clarification on this.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

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Bill,

 

The beginning of an answer to the quite puzzling pricing chart is that Dr Reed uses in a number of cases (as per their website) a mixture of Follicular Units(the current gold standard) and micrografts. They say "density and economy" are better served this way.

 

Is this good or bad- I do not know...

 

Dr Reed (the only physician doing the tranplants at La Jolla according to the website) will present this year a study at the ISHRS on the relative merits of micrografting and FUT.

 

The debate is launched...

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LondonTraveller,

 

The concept of using a small number of minigrafts, also referred to as double follicular units (DFUs), and multi follicular units (MFUs), is not a new one. A number of other first-rate surgeons including Dr. Ron and Paul Shapiro, Dr. Beehner, Dr. Keller, Dr. Rosenberg (just to name a few) have sited examples where they believe DFUs can help achieve a greater level of hair density when mixed properly with follicular units or natural hair without sacrificing naturalness.

 

Personally, I'm a fan of all follicular unit grafting because it rules out any question of looking "pluggy". That said, the results I've seen from these and other surgeons using a small number of DFUs have looked very natural.

 

This would be a great topic of discussion on a new thread.

 

Best wishes, Bill

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I have been very vocal in my displeasure with what I consider to be other forms of pricing schedules that vary too far from the "per graft" standard that most clinics employ.

 

There is certainly nothing wrong with other forms of pricing, but I confess to the average guy doing decent research--per hair/per graft/total donor tissue/small, medium/large sessions are really confusing.

 

A per graft charge is simple--charting the grafts so a graft AND hair count can be made is both easily identified by the patient and quantified as to how much actual hair was moved.

 

If I had my way, every clinic would go to this method.

 

I have heard all the arguments either way and to be quite honest, there really is no argument from patients who are happy to pay for EXACTLY how many grafts were moved.

 

I understand economics factor into everything--but it should be down on the list and not something a clinic should be worried about (saving the patient money). If the work is excellent and the pricing is in line with others doing similar work, there is no need to stress the economics or "savings" to the patient.

 

For example, I know some clinics will charge for 2000 grafts and the patient will receive 2350 grafts--the 350 at no extra charge(this is simply an example with numbers off the top of my head).

 

This in NO WAY is a negative toward the work of Dr. Reed or Dr. Carman--I happen to like them very much--I said the same when Dr, Griffin posted his pricing schedule.

 

Anyway, this happens to be a subject I believe the various organizations SHOULD step in and regulate (ISHRS for example) and require a graft/Hair count for every patient and streamline the pricing schedule to a per graft charge.

 

In the long run, it helps everyone, doctor and patient alike by simplifying the way we quantify and subsequently pay for hairtransplantation.

 

Sorry such a long response----I also look forward to hearing about Dr. Reed's philosophy LondonTraveller.

 

Take Care,

Jason


Go Cubs!

 

6721 transplanted grafts

13,906 hairs

Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

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Dear HTN Community,

 

I think the kind advice given by Yogi's Dad in the thread of not getting overly technical is good. Perhaps, however, confusion, is appropriate if it raises the need for further investigation. In the case of my confusing price table, there are a couple of points to be made with apologies for the confusion they create.

 

The first point is that the table is an older version that inadvertently was placed on the site when we did a largely cosmetic remodel of the site some months ago. It had been replaced for the same reason that Vincehair raises, i.e., its incomprehensibility, as well as for the fact that total grafts per case have become larger over the years and the table doesn't price those larger numbers.

 

Secondly, the chart in both versions was an effort to compare "apples to apples", in this case, of trying to make sub-follicular and total follicular unit grafting comparable to combination grafting by comparing the actual number of hairs that are moved by each of the procedures (at least total follicular vs combination grafting...sub-follicular, of course,can cut up the follicular unit as much as is desired). This brings up the old argument on this site from a few years ago and is the reason that emphasis is placed upon being aware of how many 1, 2 and 3 hair FUGs comprised the procedure.

 

I shall ask my web master to take down the pricing page until I can get a less confusing one posted. The pricing currently is $5000 for the first 1200 grafts, $3 for grafts from 1201 to 2000 and $2 per grafts over 2000. The total number of double follicular unit grafts has become a smaller percentage of a procedure when combination grafting is chosen. The majority of our cases are TFUT (total follicular unit transplantation) these days. Combination grafting is still the smart choice in some circumstances. A 50 yo man with grey hair (that is very difficult to see under the microscope and, therefore more subject to injuring in making skinny grafts) is the extreme indication for combination grafting.

 

Best regards to all,

 

Bill Reed, MD

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Dr. Reed,

 

Thanks for taking the time to respond to this thread and offering clarification for your current pricing structure. The way you described it here makes a lot more sense, especially to newbies who are still learning all the technical aspects of surgery.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

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Thanks Dr. Reed--I am glad your pricing has been simplified.

 

Also, your fees are among the most reasonable.

 

Excellent value IMHO.

 

Take Care,

Jason


Go Cubs!

 

6721 transplanted grafts

13,906 hairs

Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

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Originally posted by the B spot:

Also, your fees are among the most reasonable.

 

Excellent value IMHO.

actually, i was thinking this same thing after looking at a few other final costs from other people.

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Originally posted by Bill - Associate Publisher:

The way you described it here makes a lot more sense, especially to newbies who are still learning all the technical aspects of surgery.

which is the group i definitely fall into!

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Ah john don't sell yourself short buddy! Hang around and things will clear up for you!!!!!

 

Your doing fine and you have a couple of solid choices right in your back yard!

 

Take Care,

Jason


Go Cubs!

 

6721 transplanted grafts

13,906 hairs

Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

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Originally posted by Yogi's Dad:

I have a Ph.D. in Marketing (which means very little here, except that I get my summers off icon_razz.gif)

 

Me too! I wonder if we know each other. This is really my pic... do you know me? PM me if you do! icon_smile.gif


--

1st HT with Dr. Damkerng Pathomvanich, Bangkok, Thailand - 18 JUL 07 - 3300 grafts (FUT) - US$6,930

 

2st HT with Dr. Pathuri Madhu, Hyderabad, India - 31 JUL 10 - 2249 grafts (FUT) - US$2,200

 

3rd HT with Dr. Pathuri Madhu, Hyderabad, India - 26 JUL 11 - 320 grafts (FUE) touch up - US$0

 

My Hair Loss Weblog

 

My opinions are my own. I am not paid by, nor do I receive any benefits from ANY hair-related website, clinic, or doctor for my posts.

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Each doctor has their own thoughts on prices/publishing prices/etc. I have tried various approaches over the years, and have found that if we just post our prices, online, all the time; we stay out of trouble.

 

Hey, it would be great if I could charge an easy case, like an asian's nice straight donor hair, less; and a very hard curly-haired patient more. But the patient came with the donor hair that they inherited. Our price is simply based on case size.

 

Dr. Lindsey McLean VA


William H. Lindsey, MD, FACS

McLean, VA

 

Dr. William Lindsey is a member of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians

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It doesnt appear too confusing! I figured it out in about a minute, but I can see how it can be confusing to some people.

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