HT done in India

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Jagdish,

 

Thank you for sharing your experience. And thanks to all who have jumped in to help by providing their input.

 

My sense is that the clinic you went to took a fairly mechanical approach to the placement of your grafts. The grafts are uniformly distributed and in my opinion they are not closely packed together enough to give you natural looking density.

 

However, I think that if you do a second procedure with a clinic that is doing refined follicular unit grafting you will be able to fill in between the grafts from your first session and achieve a nice result.

 

Not much is known online about the surgeons in India. As Kg077 pointed out Dr. Poswal is "frequently talked about on this forum". But in my opinion, this is due to a cleverly orchestrated campaign of covert promotional posts. His clinic was also caught using a well known clinic's before after photos as their own. He and his clinic are not recommended on this community for these and other reasons.

 

I would like to eventually find a real gem in the rough clinic in India who could then be suggested to hair loss sufferers in India.

 

The hair transplant industry is still fraught with danger. So a truly outstanding clinic is like finding a safe port in a storm.

 

Any suggestions or feedback regarding surgeons in India, the good the bad and the ugly, would be much appreciated.

 

There is large international professional organization for hair transplant physicians called the International Society of Hair Restoration Surgery (ISHRS). They have over 600 members and their mission is advance the education of good technique.

 

Its member are not prescreened and thus range in quality from absolute nightmares to the absolute best. But at least the members have shown enough interest in hair restoration to become members.

 

I suggest you visit their website at www.ISHRS.org and research their members in India. Again, keep in mind that their is no quality standard for membership in this group - just an interest in learning.

 

Best wishes and welcome to our community. I hope that you become a regular and that you are very well prepared in the future if and when you choose to do another surgery.

 

Pat

[the B spot]

Originally posted by Jotronic:

 

My intent was to address the notion of the docs placing the grafts in the hairline and that they are best qualified. This may very well be the case in other clinics and there is nothing wrong with that. As a matter of fact, I don't doubt it is the case in other clinics. I was challenging the notion that this should be true as a blanket statement for all clinics. Both Dr. Wong and Dr. Hasson will be the first to say that their technicians can place grafts better than they can so I believe that when one says that the doctor should be the only one to place grafts I again respectfully disagree. The technicians, only senior staff, do this all day every day and have so for years.

 

Joe, I see your point from a technical perspective-- yes the techs place grafts everyday, all day, so it would stand to reason that they would become very capable. My interests lie solely as a consumer and patient- I am paying for my hairline, and paying top dollar for a particular doctor, not for his well-qualified assistants, which I fully expect the doctor to have. However, regardless of the orientation of making incisions, placing the grafts is just as paramount. While I completely understand your position, my notion and I think the notion of many others is that a particular doctor should be the best at all aspects of hairtransplantation, and not leave this work simply because it only involves inserting a graft into a hole. Joe the thing is, you may even be correct, that who places the graft doesn't matter, but to patients, those preparing to shell out thousands of dollars, it should.

I'm not sure there is a right/wrong answer here, but rather a difference in perspective.

[Gorpy]

Since the grafts are placed fairly far apart you could actually count them if you want. I'm estimating a density of about 10 grafts per sq/cm and about 100 sq/cm coverage. That would mean you received about 1000 grafts. Even if you double the density to 20, you would still only be at 2000 total grafts.

 

Jagdish, cut out a square centimeter from a piece of paper. Place it over various parts of the transplanted area and count the number of grafts you see. Get an average and them multiply that by 100 (the approximate area covered by grafts). That would be the number of grafts you received.

[jagdish]

Gorpy, I counted them easily. The total is between 800 to 1000. It seems I will definitely need a second session. I will just wait and see for next 8 months how the hair grows up. I hope it does not look pluggy. Meanwhile I will do good amount of research to find out good doctors in India.

Pat, thanks for your feedback and the link. It will help me realy.

[kg007]

Pat, thanks for your input. I was not aware of what you mentioned about Dr. A in your post. My recommendation is based on what I have seen and read about Dr. A. There was a fellow on this forum who posts every now and then, who had multiple procedures with Dr. A and received total of 7500 grafts. His results looked great with very natural hairline. Here's the link to another success story of Dr. A -- http://www.hairlosshelp.com/websites/Dens1/

 

Jagdish, this guy has similar hair loss patern as yours. It never hurts to get a free consultation, but I would wait atleast 4-5 months before doing so to see some results from your first HT.

 

Also, like Gorpy said, it does not seem like 3500 grafts. Your grafts are placed too far apart so don't expect great density. From what I have roughly counted, you have about 1000 grafts in 100 sq cm area, which is about 10 grafts/cm2. That's not gonna do you any good, you will still be looking very thin. Sorry, I know this is not what you wanted to hear, but you should know what to expect. Are you sure your doc didn't mean 3500 hairs (not grafts), because it seems like he might have used some big grafts in the back - totaling 3500 hair for 1000 grafts. Anyway, you should confirm again with your doc. Tell him you counted the grafts, and it doesn't seem like more than 1000 grafts. See what he has to say.

[jagdish]

KG,

Yes the grafts are not more than 1000 and I am sure i am not going to get any density.

I pray Atleast I won't look bad after 6 months. I have my marriage scheduled in next 6 months.

 

Thanks for suggesting DR.A

I enquired about Dr.A and I got very very good feedback. I will do more enquiry and if the same feedback continues I will let the doctor know about this forum and will tell him why he is not recommended here.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Jagdish,

 

If you want to consider a clinic with ethics that would enable them to present another clinic's patient photos as their own then you may be hopping from one fry pan into another.

 

Yes, Dr. A and his crew have fabricated themselves a nice little rep online. But in my opinion when the hype and covert marketing are stripped away nothing much is left.

 

I suggest you find a physician in India who is more skilled at hair transplants than online hype.

 

Best wishes, Pat

[jagdish]

FYI

The doctor who did my HT is a member of ISHRS.

There are totally 9 doctors from india who are members of ISHRS. I am on investigation

[kg007]

I see the 9 member docs from India on ISHRS. Just to let you know, just because doc is member of ISHRS it does not mean he/she does quality work. I was just browsing through the list of member docs on ISHRS, and I saw names of docs who work for Bosley/MHR who are known to do the worst HT we've ever seen. If this membership is so easy to get like Pat mentioned, docs might just get the membership to use it as another weapon to lure in more patients. So be careful.

 

It might be very difficult for you to find a doc in India who does quality work with each and every patient. I think the best thing to do would be to get the consultation with the doc listed on ISHRS, and ask them to see the actual patients. But I think if you have funds and resources available, you should look to go outside of India for HT, because even all the celebrities from India go abroad for HTs. You have lot of time before your next procedure, do your research.

[jagdish]

Joe,

Have you read the other post from "embarrassed1". That is a clear example of why the doctor is required at the time of transplantation. Atleast when the technician is not much experienced, he should be monitored by the doctor.

KG, how much HT costs for 1000 grafts in US? I think I require another 1000 grafts session? Please also let me know approximately how many grafts you think that I require?

[kg007]

It's a good debate if the doc should put the grafts in the hairline himself, but I am not going to get into that. But not all docs put grafts themselves, there're only few docs who prefer to put graft themselves. I personally believe that if Doc were to put the grafts himself, crown is as important as the hairline because crown is much more complex than the hairline.

 

You need atlease 40-45 grafts/cm2 to avoid the see-thru look. And the area that needs to be covered is about 100 sq cm. So you would need roughly about 4000 grafts to get the density you're looking for. And since you already got 1000 grafts, I say another 3000 grafts will do it. If you get it done in US, it will cost you about $3.50-4.00/graft. If money is going to be an issue, then best thing to do is keep doing your research to find a really qualified doc in India, because that will save you tons of money.

[underrepair]

Its a long time since I came back to this site.

I was miffed by Pat's attitude.

Yes, you will find many members of ISHRS, Indian as well as american, performing poor hair transplants.

The issue of Dr. A has been talked over before.

I and Pat do not agree on Dr. A.

But I will say one thing. I got a bad transplant in Mumbai by Dr. Rajput.

Now, I look a human once again after repair transplant with Dr. A.

I have yet to meet a patient who had anything bad to say about Dr. A.

[jagdish]

Hi Underrepair,

I would like to know the price for 2500 grafts. Is it Rs.60 per graft? 2500*60=1,50,000??

Have you seen my HT pictures. Any comments on the work? I am basically not satisfied with my HT and I am planning for second session in next 9 months with BESTEST doctor in India. Any kind of help much appreciated. Apart from Dr.Arvind from Delhi, do you know any other good doctor in mumbai, pune, bangalore or hyderabad. I am basically far from delhi and close to these cities.

[jagdish]

Pat,

This issue is again regarding Dr.Arvind. I did some research these days to find good doctors in India. I consulted many of my friends and others, used yahoo chat and other media in my investigation. What I found is that Dr.Arvind is very good doctor and he did very good HTs to many hairloss sufferers. He is very respectable doctor over here. I don't think this is internet hype or just a marketing strategy. I definitely think he is very good doctor.

I definitely agree that he was caught using pictures from other websites. But I would like to ask one thing. Is there any proof that he performed any bad HT to anyone till now? I don't think he did.

He was caught in March 2004 which is 2 years ago when no non-software guy has any kind of internet skills in India. I am sure all this mistake was done by some unexperienced software guy at that time. Anyway I don't want to compel you to support Dr.A. But this is what I think at this point of time.

[underrepair]

Jagdish,

There is a sliding scale for the graft cost.

I paid 1,17,000/- for my 2500 HT. The body hair were complimentary.

I went to a plastic surgeon in Mumbai and he gave me a horrible doll's head. Atleast, you do not have the big plugs.

I did research a lot after that and found Dr. A.

Like you, I found only good things about him. Now I am a supporter of his work.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Jagdish,

 

I removed Dr. A from this site after learning not only about him using another doctor's patient photos as his own, but also because of what in my opinion and other peoples' opinion has been a covert marketing campaign by certain posters on behalf of his clinic.

 

Don't fall for the online hype of posters who may not even be patients. Do YOUR own research in India by visiting actual clinics and speaking to actual patients. When a clinic is willing to knowingly use false photos how much can you trust those who work the forums on their behalf and post photos?

 

If you consult with Dr. A I suggest you insist on seeing real patients in person.

 

I have heard from reliable sources that a few vocal posters are working for Dr. A on the forums, while posing as uncompensated patients.

 

Look beneath and beyond the hype.

 

Pat

[underrepair]

What you say is very strange Pat.

You decide that the clinic knowingly used pictures even when they say that was not the case.

You want to say that any patient who posts good things about Dr. A is in their pay.

 

So, you may as well say that you do not want the name Dr. A mentioned on your site.

 

Is that your intention?

Because if that is so, I would be happy to be told on my face about that.

 

If that is not so, then why do you want to cast a doubt on my credibility.

 

There is no covert marketing process as you seem to think.

If anything, I think there is a covert plan to discredit Dr. A because of what his clinic can deliver.

If you wish to ban me, please give me the reasons on this forum, in front of everyone.

[pushing 40]

Shut up.

[the B spot]

Pat, I think I am seeing a trend emerge here? A concerned patient with not so good results from India, and then a defender of Dr. A swoopes in with the answer? After not posting for some time? Look, Dr. A may be performing quality HT's, IT DOESN'T MATTER!! He acted unethically, period, and I do not understand why we have to keep going over this same issue. I am a pretty fair person, but I think it is time to shut this guy down unless he defines the nature of his relationship with his doctor. Underrepair, Pat has made his stance clear, The Coalition does not accept doctors who have to use patient results from other clinics to drum up business. Sorry, if you disagree, but to keep steering patients this guy's way looks pretty obvious at this point. Try to look at from another perspective.....

40- right to the point and right on

[underrepair]

Bspot,

Your agenda is very clear.

You are trying to systemetically discourage patients from saying anything if that includes good reveiws of Dr. A.

 

Who are you to decide that Dr. A acted unethically?

Do you say the same thing when H/W patients recount their good experiences?

I know Dr. A's body hair transplant results are becoming a problem for many American doctors.

Is that the reason you want to shut me up? So that the status quo of mediocre results from other clinics keep continuing?

 

You want to call me a defender of Dr. A, fine go ahead. The good doctor changed my life for the better from the living hell that it was.

 

Does that make me a shill?

LOL.

You hanging around the forums day in and day out are not a shill in your opinion.

 

The fact is becoming clear to me that Dr. A is bashed on this forum primarily because his techniques and lower costs is harming the bottomline of the sponsoring doctors of this site.

[underrepair]

The only thing unethical, in my opinion, is that doctors, even after they know that fue and bht can really help the patients acheive their requirements, are not learning the new techniques.

They rather want to close their eyes and try to make the new changes go away.

[pushing 40]

Shut up two times. There are a billion people in India, recruit over there.

[Pat - Community Publisher]

Underrepair,

 

Again, the details of how Dr. A got caught using another clinic's patient photos on this and another hair loss forum is well documented in other topics. That, along with other marketing practices that in my opinion are unethical, is why he and his clinic are not recommended on this community.

 

Is he now using his own real patient photos? Well, good for him. But as they say, a zebra doesn't change his stripes or for that matter his marketing tactics.

 

This is a big world with more than enough room for a truly state of the art and ethical surgeon in India. And as soon as such a physician and clinic is identified I will gladly recommend them on this community.

 

And yes, I do think you and a couple of other Dr A cheer leaders do have a covert agenda that you are not revealing in your posts. In fact, I understand that a moderator on another forum had emails forwarded to him that revealed that this cheer leading sqaud were cooridinating their posts to "bump up" topics promoting Dr. A.

 

That is why I will ban you out in the open in this thread.

 

Go sell Dr. A some where else.

[hairbank]

I'm behind Pat 100% on this. The facts have been presented in this thread and, in my opinion, Dr. A. and/or his clinic have been shown to have previously published false information on their site and there appears to be a covert effort to "plug" him by posters here and on other forums.

 

Pat- I appreciate your wisdom here! You and this site have provided invaluable information to those of us from the school of the follically challenged over the years. Keeping the site's integrity is #1.

 

Well done.

[Guest]

Man, this thread is real interesting, sorry for being a newbie, but it seems, again, that the truth rings out whether or not it is being manipulated by people trying to protect their reputations or whatever.

 

This is a forum to be shared by Patient/Consumers and Doctors who want to share their expertise, and provide excellent service to these prospective Customers. The Doctors MUST inspire confidence other wise they have no customers. They understand how important their reputations are here on the forums, cause this is THE foremost advertising venue.

 

Great work = Great reputation = Customer confidence = Great Business$$ = Pride and Ego for being of High Stature amongst colleagues and wanna be patients.

 

There is a reason that these Great Doctors are booked months in advance. A very high rate of success is nearly insured, and if not then you would know that ethically they would do what they can to continue Customer Confidence for you and others.

 

This website promotes the Truth behind these Relationships of Customers and Doctors.