Revivogen scam?

[Guest HLBD]

Alright, so I've never been a fan of Revivogen. I've always thought it was a scam - charging an outrageous amount for a bunch of herbs that you can get over-the-counter for 10% of the cost, but this is a looks to be as sleazy a sales tactic as I have ever seen:

 

http://news.hairlosshelp.com/hair-loss-news/amazing-hai...eatment-combination/

 

The blurb says "Amazing hair growth results from a Lasercomb and Revivogen treatment combination." BUT, if you click the link to the man's YouTube profile, it never says anywhere that he even used Revivogen!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw3QDhX8ef0

 

In fact, he states that he used the Lasercomb and Propecia - the article left out that he used fin... Hmmm... Could it be that HairLossHelp.com wanted to "help" it's advertiser and buddy Revivogen that no doubt "helped" HairLossHelp.com with a large amount of money?

 

How stupid are they that they do no fact checking and "report" something with links that contradicts the article?

 

Thank you, HairLossHelp.com for lowering web-journalistic standards from Salon.com and WSJonline to the status of Rotten Tomatos and Perez Hilton.

[Guest HLBD]

Alright, so I've never been a fan of Revivogen. I've always thought it was a scam - charging an outrageous amount for a bunch of herbs that you can get over-the-counter for 10% of the cost, but this is a looks to be as sleazy a sales tactic as I have ever seen:

 

http://news.hairlosshelp.com/hair-loss-news/amazing-hai...eatment-combination/

 

The blurb says "Amazing hair growth results from a Lasercomb and Revivogen treatment combination." BUT, if you click the link to the man's YouTube profile, it never says anywhere that he even used Revivogen!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw3QDhX8ef0

 

In fact, he states that he used the Lasercomb and Propecia - the article left out that he used fin... Hmmm... Could it be that HairLossHelp.com wanted to "help" it's advertiser and buddy Revivogen that no doubt "helped" HairLossHelp.com with a large amount of money?

 

How stupid are they that they do no fact checking and "report" something with links that contradicts the article?

 

Thank you, HairLossHelp.com for lowering web-journalistic standards from Salon.com and WSJonline to the status of Rotten Tomatos and Perez Hilton.

[rp1979]

I do not use Reviviogen and whether Revivogen works is debatable. However, there is real science behind Revivogen. I would NOT put Revivogen in the same catagory as the following products which are truely scams:

Nisim, Fabao 101D, Kevis, Hair Genesis, and Viviscal

 

The science behind revivogen is based on this study:

"Inhibition of Steroid 5alpha- Reductase Activity by Aliphatic Fatty Acids", Niederprum, Schweikert, Thuroff, and Zanker, Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 1995 September 30; 768:227-30.

 

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productreviews/men/revivogen/article02.htm

 

For patients who are too young (i.e. 18 or younger) for an HT or precription for an internal DHT blocker like Finasteride, I think Revivogen would be a good option in terms of DHT inhibitor for them until they are old enough to be prescribed Finasteride.

[Guest HLBD]

Correction: the user does say, as an aside to a question that he used Revivogen, but he also has been using propecia and the lasercomb.

 

Any scientific evidence aside, rp1979, don't you think it's more than a little suspect that the article advertising Revivogen says:

 

"The HairMax LaserComb and Revivogen are an ideal combination for people with hair loss who don't want to use pharmaceuticals to regrow their hair."

 

But, when you go to the blog THEY listed in the same article, he does mention that he used Revivogen, but he's "not sure if the Revivogen helped or not." He has this to say about using "pharmaceuticals" in a reply to the question on if he uses "fin":

 

"woo2fly18 (1 week ago) Marked as spam

are you on fin?

 

(Reply)

justjoe9074 (1 week ago) Marked as spam

woo2fly18, yes, I have been for 9+ years. The results doubled with the laser comb."

 

OK, so Propecia isn't a pharmaceutical?

[rp1979]

Any scientific evidence aside, rp1979, don't you think it's more than a little suspect that the article advertising Revivogen says:

 

"The HairMax LaserComb and Revivogen are an ideal combination for people with hair loss who don't want to use pharmaceuticals to regrow their hair."

 

HLBD,

 

All I'm saying is for patients who are:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE>

<LI>Too young to be prescribed Finasteride

<LI>Patients who do not respond to and experience side-effects from Finasteride and Dutasteride

<LI> Female patients who cannot take Finasteride and have very few options in terms of DHT blockers

 

 

products such as Revivogen and Hairmax laser comb for that matter are probably their best options in conjunction to Minoxidil for maintaining their hair.

 

So to answer this thread's title on whether Revivogen is a scam, I think it is not a scam compared to products such as Nisim, Fabao 101D, Kevis, Hair Genesis, and Viviscal, which have no real scientific backing. Just my 2 cents.

[el guapo]

The lazer comb does not grow hair.

It is a cheap fraud.

[MrJobi]

Hi

 

The bottom line is Shampoo's do not regrow hair.. If it leaves your hair feeling and looking good fine but regardless of who is using it , it will not prevent loss..

 

The only items that do are Propecia and Monoxidil..

 

 

As far as shampoos for hairloss Nizoral and Revita contain Ketoconazole which has shown positive anti DHT effects..

 

Regarding Lasercomb, I do not think it is a viable solution for hairloss either despite what the FDA says

That's it in a nutshell

[rp1979]

The bottom line is Shampoo's do not regrow hair.. If it leaves your hair feeling and looking good fine but regardless of who is using it , it will not prevent loss..

Just wanted sure we are on the same page. I assume we are talking about the Revivogen Scalp Therapy topical (i.e. the one you use the dropper to apply) and NOT the Revivogen Shampoo/Conditioner. They are two different things. Only the former contains the DHT blocker, Aliphatic Fatty Acids that was talked about in this study:

"Inhibition of Steroid 5alpha- Reductase Activity by Aliphatic Fatty Acids", Niederprum, Schweikert, Thuroff, and Zanker, Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences 1995 September 30; 768:227-30.

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productreviews/men/revivogen/article02.htm

 

Again, I do not use Revivogen and have no personal experience with it.

 

 

The only items that do are Propecia and Monoxidil..

Dutasteride (GSK Avodart), while not labeled for hairloss, is also scientifically proven to regrow hair. Many coalition doctors prescribe Dutasteride.

 

As for the Hairmax Lasercomb, I do not use it, but for those who want to read what the FDA's website says. Here is a link:

http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/pdf6/K060305.pdf

 

Dr. Bauman supports the use of the lasercomb:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/146.../m/3691004603/p/1%0A

 

It seems Dr. Glenn Charles also supports laser therapy:

http://www.charlesmedicalgroup.com/Procedure/laser.php

 

Dr. Feller and Dr. Rassman both have been vocal and skeptical on the lasercomb:

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/346.../m/1891081303/p/1%0A

 

http://hair-restoration-info.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/146...461019023#9461019023

[Bill - Seemiller]

I've tried Revivogen for about 9-12 months or so with no success. Actually, I lost ground in the meantime.

 

I am in agreement that only finasteride and minoxodil will help combat hairloss.

 

There is no proof that the lasercomb, revivogen, or any other "natural" hair loss remedy really does anything to combat hair loss.

 

Cheers,

 

Bill

[Robert_]

Bill and everyone else,

 

Remember this thread about Revivogen?

 

You have to read just about all two pages of the thread to tell what's going on, but basically it was me emailing the company to call their bluff on some borderline libelous things they were saying about Nioxin and then later hiding behind a statement to the effect of, "Well, we were generalizing..." or something to that effect.

 

At any rate, I've never heard of any one that has had much or even any success using Revivogen.

 

-Robert

[Bill - Seemiller]

Robert,

 

Yes, I do recall that thread...it's been awhile. I agree that your communication with them answers a lot of questions...another sad case IMO.

 

Bill

[rp1979]

It boils down to this: Unargueably Finasteride, Minoxidil and Dutasteride are the ONLY medications that have been subjected to a double-blind clinical trials at studying hairloss. For most people the above treatments are adequate. Period.

 

BUT what about those poor souls who cannot take the above medication because they experience side effects? Are you all saying that there is nothing for them worth trying?

 

Robert_ posted:

Bill and everyone else,

 

Remember this thread about Revivogen?

http://www.hairrestorationnetwork.com/eve/showthread.php?t=137454

Yes! I remember this thread very vividly. You, Robert_, said in the thread: "As far as topical DHT blockers, Revivogen seems to be on track. Its use of copper peptides and fatty acids has a good bit of science behind it. ". This is the thread that triggered me to go and read the published study I mentioned on Aliphatic Fatty Acids.

 

 

RObert_ posted:

You have to read just about all two pages of the thread to tell what's going on, but basically it was me emailing the company to call their bluff on some borderline libelous things they were saying about Nioxin and then later hiding behind a statement to the effect of, "Well, we were generalizing..." or something to that effect.

Robert_, your letter to the Revivogen customer service only questioned on whether "DHEA (in Nioxin) increases DHT production" and that is it! The Revivogen rep replied to your letter saying that the "statement is a general statement" in other words the statement is a plausible inference kinda like how we all generalize that anabolic steroids increases testosterone and thus increases DHT: http://www.regrowhair.com/general-hair-loss-topics/caus...htlifting-hair-loss/

 

Robert_ posted:

At any rate, I've never heard of any one that has had much or even any success using Revivogen.

So why did you, Robert_, said that: "The thing about Revivogen is, that the science really backs the product up. It really should work well as a topical DHT-inhibitor. I have heard of success stories, but nothing really overwhelming."

 

The fact is that with all hairloss medications, including Finasteride and Minoxidil, we should NOT expect anything overwhelming or regrowth. If the medication slows down the balding process then it is working. Period.

 

One last thing. Can someone please give me a link to a published study proving that NIZORAL shampoo have any positive anti DHT effects? My point is most people get their info from words of mouth (nothing wrong with that at all) rather than going straight to the published scientific studies (which are all under our noses). I know most people don't have the time, but it is sad, IMO, that a lot of people don't take the time to read the published studies because accurate information and knowledge from the ACTUAL SOURCE will set you free.

 

I'm not trying to stir up any troubles, but let's get back to original question of the thread: Is it fair to call Revivogen or the FDA-approved Hairmax Lasercomb for that matter a "SCAM" compared to products with no scientific backing such as, Nisim, Fabao 101D, Kevis, Hair Genesis, and Viviscal?

 

-----------------------------------

My regimen: Finasteride + Minoxidil

Cooleyfied w/ 5130 hairs on 5/23/07

[Bill - Seemiller]

rp1979,

 

I can't speak for Robert, but I would argue that most of these products are NOT worth trying because they are a waste of money...

 

The fact that he believes/believed that the science appears to backup the claim doesn't necessarily mean that it does, but I see what you are saying....I suppose it doesn't necessarily negate the possibility. But one could argue the same about laser technology.

 

I'd rather try products that are proven to work with results than to try hype products because the company claims it does.

 

The proof is in the pudding. Unfortunately, legitmate success stories haven't been found at this point regarding Revivogen or many of these other so called natural remedies.

 

 

BUT...I agree with you...even with finasteride/dudasteride/minoxodil, most of the time new hair growth is minimal if at all.

 

I suppose it is much harder to prove whether a product is really slowing down the hair loss process...

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

P.S.

 

Is it fair to call Revivogen or the FDA-approved Hairmax Lasercomb for that matter a "SCAM" compared to products with no scientific backing such as, Nisim, Fabao 101D, Kevis, Hair Genesis, and Viviscal?

 

Yes, I'd say it's fair...especially since the FDA approval for the lasercomb doesn't seem to be for efficacy, but rather for safety only.

 

Bill

[SinTPA]

Robert,

 

Robert_ posted:

One last thing. Can someone please give me a link to a published study proving that NIZORAL shampoo have any positive anti DHT effects? My point is most people get their info from words of mouth (nothing wrong with that at all) rather than going straight to the published scientific studies (which are all under our noses). I know most people don't have the time, but it is sad, IMO, that a lot of people don't take the time to read the published studies because accurate information and knowledge from the ACTUAL SOURCE will set you free.

 

Nizoral study is posted here --> Nizoral Study

 

Conclusion: Hair density and size and proportion of anagen follicles were improved almost similarly by both KCZ and minoxidil regimens.

 

Cheers,

Sin

[SinTPA]

Also found this,

 

Nizoral 1% Study

[Robert_]

Here we go again. There's always someone that truly believes that I post observations on here just to make their life miserable. You caught me, rp1979. I specifically made that post just so you wouldn't know the extraordinary benefits of Revivogen.

 

Anyway, to address your concerns in a more serious tone,

 

Originally posted by rp1979:

It boils down to this: Unargueably Finasteride, Minoxidil and Dutasteride are the ONLY medications that have been subjected to a double-blind clinical trials at studying hairloss. For most people the above treatments are adequate. Period.

 

 

OK, I've been away for a little while, but last I heard GSK never released the dutasteride studies to the public so no one actually KNOWS the results and why they never brought it to market as a hair loss medication. I can say I KNOW that it works because I've been using it for years, but I've never seen the actual studies other than a few small, independent ones. Do you know of some that I don't?

 

Originally posted by rp1979:

BUT what about those poor souls who cannot take the above medication because they experience side effects? Are you all saying that there is nothing for them worth trying?

 

Who said that? If you want to slather yourself in Revivogen and roam the streets then go ahead for all I care. However, until I see more than the mild anecdotal evidence that says that it works, I'm not going to recommend it in good conscious.

 

 

 

Originally posted by rp1979:

Yes! I remember this thread very vividly. You, Robert_, said in the thread: "As far as topical DHT blockers, Revivogen seems to be on track. Its use of copper peptides and fatty acids has a good bit of science behind it. ". This is the thread that triggered me to go and read the published study I mentioned on Aliphatic Fatty Acids.

 

 

The key word in my sentence is "seems." Perhaps I should have bolded it? The truth is, I was just as hopeful about it as you seem to be. The company's behavior and the experience of way too many hair loss sufferers let me down, however. After years of trying this stuff, the only success stories that I've heard about have been from guys using other treatments (mainly Propecia or Avodart) in conjunction with the Revivogen. Now, admittedly that's not a scientific way to make an analysis but after several years of being on the market wouldn't SOMEONE be sharing success stories with Revivogen alone if it actually worked?

 

Originally posted by rp1979:

RObert_ posted:

Robert_, your letter to the Revivogen customer service only questioned on whether "DHEA (in Nioxin) increases DHT production" and that is it! The Revivogen rep replied to your letter saying that the "statement is a general statement" in other words the statement is a plausible inference kinda like how we all generalize that anabolic steroids increases testosterone and thus increases DHT: http://www.regrowhair.com/general-hair-loss-topics/caus...htlifting-hair-loss/

 

 

Haha. So true. The entire reason that I emailed them was that they were saying that Nioxin (not specifically the Nioxin pills) would increase hair loss. Bottom line, they were leading the guy to believe that Nioxin shampoo and conditioner was going to increase his hair loss. The statement was predatory and borderline libelous. Whether you agree or not is up to you, but I sure wouldn't want to be told a half truth like that.

 

 

Originally posted by rp1979:

Robert_ posted:

At any rate, I've never heard of any one that has had much or even any success using Revivogen.

So why did you, Robert_, said that: "The thing about Revivogen is, that the science really backs the product up. It really should work well as a topical DHT-inhibitor. I have heard of success stories, but nothing really overwhelming."

 

Because the science DOES back it up. However, the Revivogen product just seems to be lacking an adequate dose or chemical balance. I dunno, I haven't gotten around to testing it in my mad scientist lab I keep in my bathroom yet.

 

Originally posted by rp1979:

The fact is that with all hairloss medications, including Finasteride and Minoxidil, we should NOT expect anything overwhelming or regrowth. If the medication slows down the balding process then it is working. Period.

 

Why not? I expect SOME results of whatever I'm using. True, if it slows down hair loss then it is working. But how do you know that it's slowing your hair loss? If you are having success with Revivogen then PLEASE let everyone know. I'm not so prideful that I wouldn't love to be proven wrong if the product actually worked. You act like it's my job to keep bald men bald. Sheesh.

 

 

Originally posted by rp1979:

One last thing. Can someone please give me a link to a published study proving that NIZORAL shampoo have any positive anti DHT effects? My point is most people get their info from words of mouth (nothing wrong with that at all) rather than going straight to the published scientific studies (which are all under our noses). I know most people don't have the time, but it is sad, IMO, that a lot of people don't take the time to read the published studies because accurate information and knowledge from the ACTUAL SOURCE will set you free.

 

You're right. The studies are right under your nose and it seems that you're the one that isn't taking the time to look. So I took the time for you, as requested:

 

<LI> Reversal of androgenetic alopecia by topical ketoconzole: relevance of anti-androgenic activity.

 

The six Japanese males from 23 to 51 years old were enrolled in this study with their written informed consent. They presented with grade II vertex to IVa AGA according to the Hamilton??“Norwood classification [4]. The subjects applied topical 2% KCZ lotion (Nizoral?®) almost every day during or immediately after hair washing with their own unmedicated shampoos. When they revisited our clinic every several months, clinical pictures were obtained to determine the efficacy of the treatment. Two of the men, one 23 years old with grade II vertex and the other 25 years old with Va AGA, showed remarkable hair regrowth after 6 and 10 months, respectively (Fig. 1). The 23-year-old male stopped using KCZ and 3 months later hair loss recurrence on the vertex was noted (Fig. 1c). When he started using KCZ again during shampooing, hairs on the vertex grew again after 3 months (Fig. 1d). These findings constitute evidence of the clinical efficacy of KCZ for AGA. A 41-year-old male showed a slight increase in vertex hair growth after 1 year. Other three of the men, 31, 38 and 51 years old did not show significant improvement. These findings suggest that topical KCZ with shampoo can be effective for some males with AGA.

 

 

 

Fig. 1. A 23-year-old Japanese man who used 2% ketoconazole (KCZ) lotion during shampooing everyday. Six months later, hair regrowth was attained (b) in comparison with the pre-treatment condition (a). Suspension of use for 3 months, however, caused recurrent hair loss ©. Renewed use of KCZ induced renewed growth of vertex hair (d). A 25-year-old Japanese man with AGA (e) applied 2% KCZ lotion immediately after shampooing everyday. Ten months later, hair regrowth was apparent (f).

 

 

<LI> Topical application of ketoconazole stimulates hair growth in C3H/HeN mice.

 

Ketoconazole (KCZ) is an imidazole anti-fungal agent that is also effective in topical applications for treating seborrheic dermatitis and dandruff. Recently, topical use of 2% KCZ shampoo has been reported to have had a clinically therapeutic effect on androgenetic alopecia. The present study was conducted with the purpose of quantitatively examining the stimulatory effect of KCZ on hair growth in a mouse model. Coat hairs on the dorsal skin of seven week-old male C3H/HeN mice were gently clipped, and either 2% KCZ solution in 95% ethanol or a vehicle solution was topically applied once daily for three weeks. The clipped area was photographed, and the ratio of re-grown coat area was then calculated. The results demonstrated that 2% KCZ had a macroscopically significant stimulatory effect compared with the vehicle group (p<0.01, n=10). Repeated experiments showed similar effects, confirming the efficacy of KCZ as a hair growth stimulant. Although the therapeutic mechanism of topical KCZ for hair growth is unclear, our results suggest that topical applications of the substance are useful for treating seborrheic dermatitis accompanied by hair regression or male pattern hair loss.

 

<LI> Ketocazole as an adjunct to finasteride in the treatment of androgenetic alopecia in men

 

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) binding to androgen receptors (AR) in hair follicles is commonly accepted as the first step leading to the miniaturizing of follicles associated with androgenetic alopecia (AGA). Testosterone is converted to DHT by the enzyme 5alpha-reductase. Finasateride a 5alpha-reducase inhibitor blocks the production of DHT and is currently used to treat AGA. The inhibition is not complete but a reduction of DHT systemically and in the scalp is accomplished. Ketoconazole has been clinically shown to be effective in the treatment of AGA. In this paper, evidence is presented to support the hypothesis that ketoconazole 2% shampoo has a local disruption of the DHT pathway. It is proposed that using ketoconazole 2% shampoo as an adjunct to finasteride treatment could lead to a more complete inhibition of DHT and thus better treat AGA.

 

<LI> Comparative efficacy of various treatment regimens for androgenetic alopecia in men.

 

Our understanding of the aetiology of androgenetic alopecia (AGA) has substantially increased in recent years. As a result, several treatment modalities have been tried with promising results especially in early stages of AGA. However, as far as has been ascertained, there is no comprehensive study comparing the efficacy of these agents alone and in combination with each other. One hundered male patients with AGA of Hamilton grades II to IV were enrolled in an open, randomized, parallel-group study, designed to evaluate and compare the efficacy of oral finasteride (1 mg per day), topical 2% minoxidil solution and topical 2% ketoconazole shampoo alone and in combination. They were randomized into four groups. Group I (30 patients) was administered oral finasteride, Group II (36 patients) was given a combination of finasteride and topical minoxidil, Group III (24 patients) applied minoxidil alone and Group IV (10 patients) was administered finasteride with topical ketoconazole. Treatment efficacy was assessed on the basis of patient and physician assessment scores and global photographic review during the study period of one year. At the end of one year, hair growth was observed in all the groups with best results recorded with a combination of finasteride and minoxidil (Group II) followed by groups IV, I and III. Subjects receiving finasteride alone or in combination with minoxidil or ketoconazole showed statistically significant improvement (p<0.05) over minoxidil only recipients. No signifcant side-effects related to the drugs were observed. In conclusion, it is inferred that the therapeutic efficacy is enhanced by combining the two drugs acting on different aetiological aspects of AGA.

 

 

You can't access many of them without a password, but that should be enough for you to take a look at.

 

 

Originally posted by rp1979:

I'm not trying to stir up any troubles, but let's get back to original question of the thread: Is it fair to call Revivogen or the FDA-approved Hairmax Lasercomb for that matter a "SCAM" compared to products with no scientific backing such as, Nisim, Fabao 101D, Kevis, Hair Genesis, and Viviscal?

 

 

 

 

Sure, if they don't work. But I didn't call anything a "scam." I'm just stating my interpretations of what I've observed. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of anything and I don't appreciate the insinuation. If you'd rather not read my posts then fine, don't read them. If you have evidence to support a contradictory argument to what I've posted, then please feel free to post that. However, don't assume that just because you don't like what is said it's not true. We're all a little too adult to know that's not how the world works.

 

 

-Robert

[Robert_]

Originally posted by SinTPA:

Robert,

 

Robert_ posted:

One last thing. Can someone please give me a link to a published study proving that NIZORAL shampoo have any positive anti DHT effects? My point is most people get their info from words of mouth (nothing wrong with that at all) rather than going straight to the published scientific studies (which are all under our noses). I know most people don't have the time, but it is sad, IMO, that a lot of people don't take the time to read the published studies because accurate information and knowledge from the ACTUAL SOURCE will set you free.

 

Nizoral study is posted here --> Nizoral Study

 

Conclusion: Hair density and size and proportion of anagen follicles were improved almost similarly by both KCZ and minoxidil regimens.

 

Cheers,

Sin

 

Thanks for digging that up, Sin. But I'm not the one that requested it, that was all rp1979.

 

Regards,

 

Robert

[rp1979]

Here we go again. There's always someone who gets jacked up with a little civilized debate. This forum is one the best places for discussions so let's discuss!

 

Robert_ posted:

 

OK, I've been away for a little while, but last I heard GSK never released the dutasteride studies to the public so no one actually KNOWS the results and why they never brought it to market as a hair loss medication. I can say I KNOW that it works because I've been using it for years, but I've never seen the actual studies other than a few small, independent ones. Do you know of some that I don't?

First of all welcome back, Social Drinker, hope are enjoying your free head of hair. Now, the motivation of my posts was to encourage people to seek information from published sources in ADDITION to information by words of mouth on the forums, which at times is second hand information. Then decide if something is worth a try or a mere scam. When dutasteride first came into the scene back in 2005/2006, why did you decided to switch to dustasteride back then? How did you know that dustasteride will work for you back then? Eventhough "GSK never released the dutasteride studies to the public so no one actually KNOWS the results". You based your decision to switch on the published information that was available rather than solely relying on what people said in the forums. Have you read this study?:

 

Olsen et. al. in the Journal of the American Academy of Dermatology 2006; 55(6): 1014-1023, which showed the benefit of combined type I and type II 5???±-reductase inhibition in the treatment of male pattern hair loss in a randomized, placebo-controlled study of dutasteride versus finasteride. (I can't provide direct hyperlink but can try to get you a pdf if you wish)

 

My point is when dustasteride was found to be beneficial eventhough it was not fully studied nor labeled to treat hairloss, you TRIED it and it worked for you. In this field of medicine, nothing is a 100% exact science. At the end of day you just have to do as much RESEARCH as you can to see if it's worth it and safe for you and JUST TRY IT, especially if everything else fails.

 

Robert_ posted:

If you want to slather yourself in Revivogen and roam the streets then go ahead for all I care.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

Robert_ posted:

However, until I see more than the mild anecdotal evidence that says that it works, I'm not going to recommend it in good conscious.

So Social Drinker, for those patients who do not respond to or experience side effects from finasteride/dusteride/minoxidil, patients who are too young for finasteride, or female patients with hairloss. What do you suggest they try in terms of non-surgical treatments? Nothing? Don't even give the FDA-approved Hairmax lasercomb a try eventhough two coalition doctors and one recommended doctor of HTN recommends it?

 

Robert_ posted:

After years of trying this stuff, the only success stories that I've heard about have been from guys using other treatments (mainly Propecia or Avodart) in conjunction with the Revivogen. Now, admittedly that's not a scientific way to make an analysis but after several years of being on the market wouldn't SOMEONE be sharing success stories with Revivogen alone if it actually worked?

I mean it's hard enough to get people to even share their post-op HT hair counts for heaven's sake! Again I'm not promoting that you should place your bets on Revivogen if Fin and Min works for you. The point of this discussion is to question if Revivogen is a scammy snake oil as the thread title stated and whether should even be considered as an option if Fin and Min is not an option. I think it is something worth a try based on this study:

 

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/download/study6.pdf

 

In addition, it is a well-known fact that it is best to attack hairloss from different angles: systematic DHT blocker, topical DHT blocker, stimulant, SOD, Antiandrogen. Perhaps Revivogen was beneficial to those men that you mentioned who were using both (Fin or Avodart) and Revivogen. Let's keep an open mind here.

 

Robert_ quoted:

The entire reason that I emailed them was that they were saying that Nioxin (not specifically the Nioxin pills) would increase hair loss. Bottom line, they were leading the guy to believe that Nioxin shampoo and conditioner was going to increase his hair loss. The statement was predatory and borderline libelous. Whether you agree or not is up to you, but I sure wouldn't want to be told a half truth like that.

Do you believe anabolic steroids increases testosterone and thus increases DHT contributing to hairloss? If so, do you feel that it is unacceptable to infer that DHEA, which increases testosterone, increases DHT? "predatory and borderline libelous"? - I respectfully disagree.

 

Robert_ posted:

Because the science DOES back it up. However, the Revivogen product just seems to be lacking an adequate dose or chemical balance. I dunno, I haven't gotten around to testing it in my mad scientist lab I keep in my bathroom yet.

I see that you haven't lost your sense of humor, Social drinker. Well test the stuff in your bar that you built then. Is that thing still up and running? Grab a cold drink while you are at it and cool down for one sec. OK, so we are in agreement that there is REAL science behind Revivogen. So this product is not purposely designed to maliciously DECEIVE people like the other scammy products I listed in my initial post which that have no scientific backing. I would NOT put Revivogen in the same category as Nisim, Fabao 101D, Kevis, Hair Genesis, and Viviscal

. Again it is my opinion that Revivogen and the FDA-approved hairmax lasercomb are something WORTH a try if the standard treatments (Fin and Minoxidil) are not an option. AND THAT IS ALL I'M SAYING. As I said before that I don't use Revivogen because I am lucky that propecia and minoxidil is working for me.

 

Robert_ posted:

Why not? I expect SOME results of whatever I'm using. True, if it slows down hair loss then it is working. But how do you know that it's slowing your hair loss?

 

Robert, go ask any respected HT doctor if my previous statement is inaccurate: "With Finasteride and Minoxidil, we should NOT expect anything overwhelming or regrowth." I feel that medical therapy is intended to slow down or maintain what you got. Any regrow is a bonus but shouldn't be expected. To answer your question on how to assess treatment is slowing hairloss, YOU JUST HAVE TO TRY IT like Finasteride and Monoxidil and then try to make your best assessment.

 

Robert_ posted:

If you are having success with Revivogen then PLEASE let everyone know.

Didn't you noticed that I have repeated many times that finasteride and minoxidil is adaquate treatment for most patients? It is just my opinion that Revivogen (and the Hairmax lasercomb for that matter) is something worth a try for those people who cannot use Finasteride and Minoxil. And for those people who cannot take those meds and who are considering Revivogen, all I'm saying is read this published study and article to determine for YOURSELF if Revivogen is worth trying OR if Revivogen is a complete scam:

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/download/study6.pdf

http://www.hairlosstalk.com/productreviews/men/revivogen/article02.htm

 

Extra knowledge is never a waste.

 

Robert_ posted:

You're right. The studies are right under your nose and it seems that you're the one that isn't taking the time to look. So I took the time for you, as requested

I have taken the time to find and read the study on the anti-DHT affects of Ketoconazole. My request for a hyperlink to the study isn't directed at you, I was merely calling out to the majority of the new readers/posters of this forum, most who blindly takes information without question (kinda like how I did when I knew squat about hairloss years back). This community has always preached the importance of research and I think it is important people take the time to read the published studies even for Finasteride and Minoxidil. You must admit that very few people even consider reading any published scientific studies and it is EXTREMELY infrequent in my years reading this forum that people post links to published studies backing what they claim. You have done a great service by posting that password-protected study of Ketoconazole and now people reading this forum can understand why and how Ketoconazole has anti-DHT affects. Thanks.

 

Robert_ posted:

If you'd rather not read my posts then fine, don't read them.

That above statement couldn't be further from the truth. I have read A LOT of your posts and I found them to be informative, genuine and some with great sense of humor especially that one when you demonstrated how to apply Dermmatch.

 

Who do YOU think made me consider Dr. Cooley and motivated me to fly from Boston to NC to get my HT with one of best? My HT experience couldn't have been better thanks to the info and opinions that you've shared (my immediate post-op pics are in my weblog if you care to see).

 

My post wasn't intended to attack or insult you and I apologize if you interpreted that way. This forum has helped to educate me well enough that I actually dared to question and start a debate with one of the veterans, like you. Sorry if I broke the unwritten code of conduct

 

Again I apologize if you were insulted and if you are still mad, next time I'm in NC I'll buy you a beer and if need be you can try giving me a couple of knuckle sandwiches.

 

Regards,

RP

[justanotherguy]

you should make like a book out of these discussions. I am always amazed to read such informative posts.