Jump to content

Taking grafts from "unsafe" zone


Recommended Posts

In my experience this is not very common. Most patients trust the doctor to only take donor from an area that is most likely permanant. If a patients is already having hair loss or thinning of hair and the doctor feels that it is due to Male Pattern Baldness, it would not make sense to take donor tissue from an area that may be lost later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

I look at this in a different way.

 

If someone wanted a more aggressive hairline they could use this hair that "may" be susceptible to loss as you age.

 

If you lose that lower hairline, at an older age, that is a normal part of hair loss anyways and it will look normal for your age.

 

If someone has the money and is willing to take the chance of using this hair in a lower

hairline I say go for it.

 

Just don't use that hair behind the hairline.

 

 

It could be a waste of money, but that would be an informed risk the patient takes.

  • Like 1

-

1st Transplant: 5,485 grafts with Dr Jerry Wong

 

2nd Transplant: 3,100 grafts with Dr Jerry Wong

 

3rd Transplant: 5,035 grafts with Dr Sanusi Umar

 

My Hair Loss Website - Hair Transplant with Dr. Wong

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

I agree w/ Drew 100%. I have always intuitively felt this way, but he articulated very well the circumstance where it could be quite appropriate -- and effective - to the patient.

 

This is actually one of the "extreme" HT ideas I have that I seriously plan on exploring if/when I need to.

-----------

*A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics*

1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash.

Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician.

Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

I am glad to learn that I am not the only baldie thinking about extreme and "outside the box" solutions to deal with my hair loss in the event that I become a 6 or 7.

 

I had considered the solution proposed in this thread as a potential option. Afterall, some years of having a lower hairline with non-permanent donor hair is better than none, especially since when the hairs fall out, it would progress into a maturing hairline, as is a common natural occurence.

 

After thinking about it, I stumbled upon a major potential problem which creates a great risk for this solution: what if you take hair from a semi-permanent zone? Some people go partially bald in an area, so in other words, they lose some but not all hair in the area in question. While this looks like natural when it is part of a balding pattern, it would look very unnatural if it appeared in a hairline. Imagine having random hairs all around the lower hairline.....it would not look very good.

 

I have some other extreme, outside the box solutions that I will share someday when I feel like typing up the thread, two of which I am seriously considering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

If it took someone 10-15 years to become a NW2 is it reasonable to assume hair transplanted from the unsafe zone would follow the same course, when loss started? Say, in the worst case scenario, Fin and Minox have no effect and you start to lose the hair - taking the above example would it take another 15 years to become a NW2 (once lost started) or would the loss be more aggressive?

 

Would the hair survive until it was due to be lost, had it not been moved?

 

Would the hair recede or would it be lost from random areas?

 

Could the hair be placed in such a manner that the hairline would recede? - Could the grafts be taken from the start of the unsafe zone to be placed in the front hairline and further into safe zone for behind the hairline - would this give you a better chance of the hairline receding more naturally?

 

I don't think I'd knowingly take grafts from such an area but if I was to, the above are the questions that I would be asking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

I'm glad that I'm not the only weirdo who considers things like this. IF (and that's a big if) the scarring from FUE would be so minimal as to be almost invisible to the naked eye, and if I were insanely wealthy, I would absolutely take hair from the unsafe zone and transplant it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

Hmmm, interesting. Over the course of the last 5-8 years, our notion of the "safe zone" has been challenged repeatedly.

 

There are still those who believe you can only take 2-2.5cm X 20-22cm long and that is all.

 

I disagree. I believe the donor is a moving field, that is different for each patient, and can change as you go age.

 

A 25 year old vs a 40 year old with the same level of loss can be approached very differently.

 

If you account for future loss, taking into consideration all the present factors such as age, current level of loss, progression, ability to use meds/topicals, available donor, quality of the individuals hair, and most importantly...the patients wants vs needs, you can safely transplant most patients and manage to meet or exceed expectations. You must be aware of patient expectations as well.

 

There is some risk, however, as with all surgical procedures. Again, HT's are not for everyone.

 

Cheers,

Jason

Go Cubs!

 

6721 transplanted grafts

13,906 hairs

Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

TC17, are you calling me a weirdo? icon_smile.gif

 

Well I think the ball game could be different now because of the meds we have available? Remember, with propecia/proscar we have the ability to maintain the hair we have so taking that into account I was thinking that taking a strip or FUE from the upper region of the scalp could at minimum provide many years of functional follicles.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

B described a dynamic safezone, which I think is a very apt description. Hasson and Wong with patient consent seem to enage in this on occasion -- I seem to remember there being a discussion where Bill discussed the option of engaging in a dynamic-safezone w/ Hasson.

 

With what B said it seems that SMG is willing to engage in honest and flexible talk to best meet a patient's interest and wants, even if this means defying an otherwise rigid thought of yester'year.

-----------

*A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics*

1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash.

Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician.

Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

I believe TC is calling you a weirdo hairshare icon_biggrin.gif

 

Of course, it does take one to know one!!!! LOL.

 

Anyway, your right Thana...obviously with a younger patient, we will approach them as if they will be a type 5-6, with a type 5-6 available donor...this changes as you age...so it is always good to work backwards from what the future "might" hold vs working solely from what the patient "wants" today....balance.

 

Dudes, seriously...I feel like a Banzai tree right now.....where the hell did I put that photo of Phil Jackson icon_biggrin.gif

Go Cubs!

 

6721 transplanted grafts

13,906 hairs

Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

LOL, sorry guys!

 

You know, recently there was talk on this forum that some physicians believe that finasteride will never stop working. Personally, I'm not buying that proposition, and I don't think that the physicians really believe it either. If they did, they would lower hairlines and fill in temples of young guys and rely on the medication to keep them safe.

 

Jason, if too much is taken from the donor area, why can't a physician just transplant armpit, leg, or chest hair into the donor area to make it appear more full? I would think that body hair in that area would be less of an issue than at the top of the head. Thoughts?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Taking hair from areas of the scalp outside of the "universal" safe zone happens more frequently than most hair restoration patients may realize. The notion that donor hair is "permanent" has also been challenged by a number of members of this community.

 

The truth is, hair transplants come with risks. The key is to minimize those risks as much as possible to restore as much of a patient's hair for as long as possible. Nothing lasts forever...not even life. So technically, saying a hair transplant lasts forever is inaccurate.

 

In my opinion, the safe zone is dynamic and varies for each patient. The real question is...how do we get the most out of our donor hair and use it responsibly?

 

Age, family history, scalp and hair characteristics will aid a physician in how to approach a patient's donor hair. To maximize the number of grafts, strips are sometimes longer leading into the temple areas in patients who have a solid family history of baldness with no loss there. Nape hair and hair above the crown have been used in older patients with no signs of impact to those hairs by DHT, etc.

 

Personally, I think it would be irresponsible for hair replacement physicians to take hair from areas of the scalp that already show obvious signs of thinning . I also think it would be irresponsible for doctors to harvest hair from areas more susceptible to DHT if safer hair hasn't first been utilized.

 

Hair transplants involve careful planning and risk management. It's a skilled and ethical physicians job to go over all the benefits and potential risks with their patients (transparency) giving patients the ability to make sound choices. Sometimes a hair transplant surgeon may deny a particular patient's choice if he/she feels it's not appropriate for the patient. Patients may not always like it, but ethical physcians will always put their patients' best interest ahead of financial gain.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
Originally posted by TC17:

Jason, if too much is taken from the donor area, why can't a physician just transplant armpit, leg, or chest hair into the donor area to make it appear more full? I would think that body hair in that area would be less of an issue than at the top of the head. Thoughts?

 

Well, the fact is this was touted by a couple of doctors a few years back...those of us who challenged this notion for the profiteering, unproven practice were basically attacked as shills...until it just fell by the wayside like so many "next great things" and those supporters moved on where such things are OK to announce, then never deliver. =)

 

For the low, low sum of uh, double the cost, the doctor would take out a graft, then go get a graft from your body and put it in the extraction site. Never worked. Body hair has been hit or miss and behind the scenes a failure, aside from a few positive results. Dr. Mwamba has used some acell matrix from the bladder of pigs to promote healing when donor restocking. I'm not sure how it is coming along.

 

I believe BHR has performed some beard hair to gapped donor sites 6 months after FUE surgeries to restock, but again, white dots in the donor vs facial scarring.

 

I am all for trying new things out...but the industry tends to rush things into full fledged "Savior Mode" before seeing where the chips really fall.

 

We just have to keep asking questions and looking for results.

 

Cheers,

Jason

Go Cubs!

 

6721 transplanted grafts

13,906 hairs

Performed by Dr. Ron Shapiro

 

Dr. Ron Shapiro and Dr. Paul Shapiro are members of the Coalition of Independent Hair Restoration Physicians.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 11 years later...
  • Regular Member

I would like to present a crazy idea.

History: I am a NW2 aged 28 with good crown and mild scalp density. Family history is such that no major baldness NW4 (with low density) at age 60. My prediction of my future hair loss is very slow receding of hairline to NW4(with low density) about the age 50. 

Idea: To use crown and midscalp grafts as donors for hairline lowering.

Reason: If donors are taken from safe donor zone, then after 10 years I might need another transplant since hairline is permanent and the native hairs behind the hairline will fall and it will look really bad. So to avoid this scenario, can we implant grafts from crown & midscalp zone which will fall off with native hair and baldness progression looks normal for a 40/45 year old. *I DONT WANT TO TAKE FINASTERIDE OR MINOXIDIL*

Expectation: I would like to lower my hairline by 1 cm which could take approximately 1200 grafts.I want to enjoy the new lowered hairline for approximately 10 years. After that I don't care.

 

I feel this is a crazy idea. Don't know why.. But can anyone say why this is a bad idea?

 

 

Edited by Gokul Krishnan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Administrators
6 minutes ago, Gokul Krishnan said:

I would like to present a crazy idea.

History: I am a NW2 aged 28 with good crown and mild scalp density. Family history is such that no major baldness NW4 (with low density) at age 60. My prediction of my future hair loss is very slow receding of hairline to NW4(with low density) about the age 50. 

Idea: To use crown and midscalp grafts as donors for hairline lowering.

Reason: If donors are taken from safe donor zone, then after 10 years I might need another transplant since hairline is permanent and the native hairs behind the hairline will fall and it will look really bad. So to avoid this scenario, can we implant grafts from crown & midscalp zone which will fall off with native hair and baldness progression looks normal for a 40/45 year old. *I DONT WANT TO TAKE FINASTERIDE OR MINOXIDIL*

Expectation: I would like to lower my hairline by 1 cm which could take approximately 1200 grafts.I want to enjoy the new lowered hairline for approximately 10 years. After that I don't care.

 

I feel this is a crazy idea. Don't know why.. But can anyone say why this is a bad idea?

 

 

Pictures?


I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice.

Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey

View my thread

Topical dutasteride journey 

Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog.

Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Moderators

Taking hair from the midscalp to place in the front is a bad idea because you will only be speeding up the time it takes to be thinning naturally in the midscalp area since you are taking some hair out of the area already. You hair looks pretty good. I'm actually leaning towards telling you to do nothing, but you do have some thinning in the center of the hairline. You only need minor work along the front to thicken that area up a bit. Don't lower the hairline. I put your picture below with an area in green where I think you should thicken it up a bit. Disregard the red line. That was the one there before. You may be able to do this with 1000 grafts or less. Just do a regular FUE from the normal donor area.

 

 

1572189556_ScreenShot2021-02-24at4_03_07PM.png.fe51eae67de2746e181cb01cb086f1d2.png

 

 

Al

Forum Moderator

(formerly BeHappy)

I am a forum moderator for hairrestorationnetwork.com. I am not a Dr. and I do not work for any particular Dr. My opinions are my own and may not reflect the opinions of other moderators or the owner of this site. I am also a hair transplant patient and repair patient. You can view some of my repair journey here.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...