Jump to content

Keeping Personal Insults Off Our Forum - Respect is Required


Recommended Posts

There have been some very lively debates lately, some of which unfortunately quickly turned into grunge matches due to a few members problems in controlling their anger. As a result, I've had to remove some very insulting and antagonistic posts from various members. Why everyone is getting so emotional lately, I don't know, although I can't help but wonder if the full moon has anything to do with it.

 

Those who come to our patient driven community are here to find hair loss information and support from our veteran members. While technical debates and sharing genuine concerns and opinions are critical to facilitate learning, personal insults and unsubstantiated opinions presented as facts can be harmful and destructive to all of those who visit us.

 

Frankly, I've just about had it with those who quickly resort to hostility and try to tear one another down, especially with unsubstantiated opinions and personal insults.

 

None of this is brand new information. In the terms of service you all agreed to when you signed up, it states:

 

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this software service to post any material which is of a commercial or promotional nature, knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you or by this BB."

 

Anyone who violates these terms may be subject to the following "3 Strikes and You're Out" policy.

 

Strike 1) Their post will be removed with a private and possibly public warning

 

Strike 2) If it happens again, they will be suspended for at least one week

 

Strike 3) Once reinstated, if it happens again, they will be suspended permanently or at our discretion.

 

These insulting posts are destructive in nature and turns people away from this community. I see no reason why people can't hold a technical debate while respecting one another and varying opinons.

 

One more thing, if enough evidence has been presented to support a difference of opinion, there is no shame in admitting when we're wrong.

 

Regards,

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Must be the recession affecting everyones mood icon_biggrin.gif

Current Regime:

Minox liquid 5% twice a day

Proscar 1/4 tab a day

Nizoral every 2nd day

MSM 1000mg a day

Silica 200mg a day

 

AHS 6 months laser treatment- POOR results

Crescina - no results

IRISH

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

That was very well said Bill. Almost all of us are here because we faced the same problem. We should be able to discuss it without a bunch of personal insults or attacks. Actually there are hundreds of posters that do discuss things without the personal attacks and that is one reason why the web site is so successful in my opinion. icon_smile.gif

4374 grafts-7/2/2008-Dr Rahal

485 singles

2336 doubles

1526 triples

16 quads

9809 total hairs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

Well said! And I don't think a very spirited debate and mudslinging are mutually exclusive. Lengthy "grudge matches" simply end up obscuring the truth that debate has been gradually uncovering. This $%(@s everyone, especially patients....and the people who are right...icon_wink.gif

 

I don't think it's possible to *always* remain *100%* tactful, especially in a lively debate that has merit where people have strong beliefs that have strong ramifications; but you can draw a line between being forceful and blunt w/o self-sabotaging your own pursuit of "winning the war" by allowing personal insults to obstruct from the valid, important points.

-----------

*A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics*

1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash.

Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician.

Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Regular Member

Bill

thanks for the post. I hope Please Grow Please reads this as he seems to attack with insults more then anyone on his site.

 

------

Note by Moderator: RSF and Dr. DeYarman share the same IP address. RSF was questioned on this but never answered. Thus, although technical anomalies occur (dynamic IP addresses, IP spoofing, etc), it's a possible conclusion that RSF is a representative of Dr. DeYarman. Due to his failure to adress the concerns of a shared IP address, he is no longer a member of this community.

-------

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

PGP is like a black panther in the deep parts of a jungle pouncing on anti-patient livestock! icon_wink.gif

 

For real, though, he has over 2k posts I believe...in addition to *countless* PMs and private conversations....much of which is directed on the important "red meat" of the HT world. As a result he tangles more with people, and *other* people tangle more with him -- and 99% of the time, even if he is wrong in the entire scope of his opinion, it results in positive benefit to the patient.

 

This can't be discounted. The "insults" are really a minor component of a small portion of threads, over the backdrop of a very, very large # of posts/PMs/etc. IMO, it isn't appropriate and most importantly it isn't beneficial to patients to hyper-focus on this one aspect of him and jump on a bandwagon while giving him a stigma that would discredit the good he has done and most importantly could hinder the good he will do.

 

I think he can ratchet up the intensity too much for the time and place and this should change, and I believe it will -- he'd be the first to admit it and if it had a negative effect on a patient's ability to be informed and make a decision he'd be the first to apologize. It's a two-way street, though, too.

 

/3cents

-----------

*A Follicles Dying Wish To Clinics*

1 top-down, 1 portrait, 1 side-shot, 1 hairline....4 photos. No flash.

Follicles have asked for centuries, in ten languages, as many times so as to confuse a mathematician.

Enough is enough! Give me documentation or give me death!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

I agree RSF and Im working on this as Bill knows. Like he said he knows when Im joking but others dont

If you look though I only "attack" when provoked but even then its uncalled for.

Maybe I let all the positive pms from posters and docs get to me

I have always had guys back when I felt they were screwed and Ill no longer do that either since people want to harp on a negative.

If a guy has a poor result from a top clinic Ill just let it run its course.

Sorry I never answered your request on the pm but if you still want it Ill help you out. Been too busy. I hope you forgive me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

Thana I was posting while you posted that .

Thank you my friend

You know how I always try and have the patients back but Ill leave that up to someone else for now on.

To be honest a couple of the guys I had words with have put that aside and we have been pming each other alot in the last few days.

If you want to know my opinion about something feel free to pm me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

its a sensitive age we live in....

 

some understand that posters like PGP do more good for this place than bad(franlky its quite onesided if you ask me)... and others cant handle his aggressive nature, i think its OBV which side i think ought to grow up. oddly enough it not the side who 'slings the mud' but rather the side that apparently does not realize that they actually do have the ability to brush the mud off quite easily..

 

we are not perfect, we are all different and as a result we make this site better... its a shame to see one of the more helpful posters here take heat(and be called out by rsf) over a character trait that some of you dont agree with.. im trying to say this with as much respect as i can but those who let PGPs occasional 'tuff talk' dictate who they think he is as a poster need to work on their observation skills. another option might be toughen up a bit...

 

wow, i type slow.. i stated this right after rsf's post.. then i finish to see thana and that beautiful vocab of his whipped my a** againicon_wink.gif

*** RESULTS WILL 100%, without a DOUBT, VARY***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
Originally posted by lost my swagger:

its a sensitive age we live in....

 

some understand that posters like PGP do more good for this place than bad(franlky its quite onesided if you ask me)... and others cant handle his aggressive nature, i think its OBV which side i think ought to grow up. oddly enough it not the side who 'slings the mud' but rather the side that apparently does not realize that they actually do have the ability to brush the mud off..

 

we are not perfect, we are different and as a result we make this site better... its a shame to see one of the more helpful posters here take heat(and be called out by rsf) over a character trait that some of you dont agree with.. im trying to say this with as much respect as i can but those who let PGPs occasional 'tuff talk' dictate who they think he is as a poster need to work on their observation skills. another option might be toughen up a bit...

 

Lost,

With all due respect I tend to disagree about this "toughening up" stuff. Most adults do not come to a hair transplant board to be insulted. They come because of a serious issue effecting their lives. They often are opening themselves up in a somewhat vulnerable position (including posting bad pictures of themselves) seeking advice. If this board ever becomes about "toughening up" to personal insults (thankfully Bill and Pat make sure that isn't the case) then many people will go elsewhere.

 

The internet is a place for some people to express their anger in a way that they would not do in person usually. That is why we have the term "internet tough guy". I have seen that it is often the same exact guys on sports message boards that often have trouble or get banned from many different boards because they can not deal with other posters respectfully. Shouldn't we treat other posters with the same respect on this board as you would if you were looking at them eye to eye? I'm only one person but I do speak to many people on this board and I know that some of them often choose not to speak at times because they do not want to be personally attacked. Personal attacks do not have a place on a hair transplant message-board in my opinion. If you do not like a doctors results than be critical of the results but insulting other posters only because they hold a different point of view is going over the line in my opinion.

4374 grafts-7/2/2008-Dr Rahal

485 singles

2336 doubles

1526 triples

16 quads

9809 total hairs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
Originally posted by wantego:
Originally posted by lost my swagger:

its a sensitive age we live in....

 

some understand that posters like PGP do more good for this place than bad(franlky its quite onesided if you ask me)... and others cant handle his aggressive nature, i think its OBV which side i think ought to grow up. oddly enough it not the side who 'slings the mud' but rather the side that apparently does not realize that they actually do have the ability to brush the mud off..

 

we are not perfect, we are different and as a result we make this site better... its a shame to see one of the more helpful posters here take heat(and be called out by rsf) over a character trait that some of you dont agree with.. im trying to say this with as much respect as i can but those who let PGPs occasional 'tuff talk' dictate who they think he is as a poster need to work on their observation skills. another option might be toughen up a bit...

 

Lost,

With all due respect I tend to disagree about this "toughening up" stuff. Most adults do not come to a hair transplant board to be insulted. They come because of a serious issue effecting their lives. They often are opening themselves up in a somewhat vulnerable position (including posting bad pictures of themselves) seeking advice. If this board ever becomes about "toughening up" to personal insults (thankfully Bill and Pat make sure that isn't the case) then many people will go elsewhere.

 

The internet is a place for some people to express their anger in a way that they would not do in person usually. That is why we have the term "internet tough guy". I have seen that it is often the same exact guys on sports message boards that often have trouble or get banned from many different boards because they can not deal with other posters respectfully. Shouldn't we treat other posters with the same respect on this board as you would if you were looking at them eye to eye? I'm only one person but I do speak to many people on this board and I know that some of them often choose not to speak at times because they do not want to be personally attacked. Personal attacks do not have a place on a hair transplant message-board in my opinion. If you do not like a doctors results than be critical of the results but insulting other posters only because they hold a different point of view is going over the line in my opinion.

 

Exactly! If a friend of mine said he did his research and scheduled a surgery with one of the top-5 doctors in the industry, I would not post pictures of NW-7 and try to scare him with "what if" questions. I would not question the integrity of the doctor he chose.

 

I would absolutely not be trying to instil doubts, but rather encouraging him and wishing him well.

 

I totally agree about the internet tough guy phenomenon. Maybe I didnt read all the posts before, but I have recently noticed an uptick in the agression and hostility. It is as if this is spillover from HLH which is no longer relevant. The mighty armani has been exposed, now is seems some malcontents are aiming at other doctors who have a huge record of success.

 

I think there are guys who are NW6/7, who maybe dont have the money or follicular resources for a good HT, or maybe they were disfigured by a bad surgeon, and they take this negativity out on other posters.

 

Advanced Norwoods are getting good HTs these days from the right clinics.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And I don't think a very spirited debate and mudslinging are mutually exclusive.

 

This is absolutely right. As the moderator, I'm certainly aware that people of all backgrounds and different opinions and ideas come to this forum to share ideas, experiences, and photos. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing with one another and holding a lively debate. In fact, members are encouraged to share their genuine opinions and experiences, even if it goes against the majority. This facilitates learning for hundreds of thousands of members and guests for years to come.

 

Where a healthy debate turns destructive is when members begin to attack one another. The concept is a simple one, but more difficult in practice.

 

In one word, I'd describe it as "respect". In a phrase, I'd say, "Treat others how you would like to be treated". The only exception to this rule would be if a member feels they deserve to be treated like dirt and feels compelled to treat others this way. I'd suggest if this is describing you, that this isn't the forum for you. I'd also suggest that anyone who feels they deserve to be treated like dirt seek professional counseling.

 

Here's the bottom line: Share your genuine opinions, ideas, and experiences, and have fun!!!!

 

I have a lot of faith in the members of this community and expect that following the above won't be difficult.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

wantego-- i agree with you when you say personal attacks do not belong.. they do not..

 

i also agree that we should treat people on here just as we would 'face to face' i know personally i do this.... who is to say that face to face PGP wouldnt tell me hes gonna 'whip my punk ass' and then he might assure me that i'dont want a piece'icon_wink.gif...

 

to be honest i agree with most of what your saying wantego, but like you say we are ALL here because this very serious issue had indeed, effected all of our lives deeply. as a result we have many different personalities joining together to help others in their own way...sometimes the more aggressive personalities flex their muscle but i believe that is simply their nature... i am not saying its ok to name call, or insult because its not ok. what i am saying is that in this often heated HT world, these things can and do happen. so while the aggressors work on calming their temper maybe the ones who gets so deeply offended(or the posters u note who are "afraid" to be attacked) feels the need to complain ought to work on toughening up because i do believe their soft nature should be worked on aswell... IMO they would both growing as people...

 

then there is me... perfect..... right in the middle. my pourage is juuuust righticon_wink.gif

 

anyway.... i have not slept and i work graves so maybe im delusional right now who knows. but just felt the need to throw my opinion on this into the ring, just as you did. respectfullyicon_wink.gif

*** RESULTS WILL 100%, without a DOUBT, VARY***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

Lost,

You gave your opinion "respectfully". That is great. That is how everybody should and why this thread was posted. icon_smile.gif

 

I do not see the forum rules listed. If Bill can show us where to find the forum rules that might help clear up the situation at hand.

 

Here is my opinion. If personal insults or attacks are allowed against other HT patients/posters within the rules they they should be tolerated. People that do not want to be insulted or read other people being attacked will have to understand they are allowed under the rules. It would then be their decision whether or not to consider going to another board if they are allowed under the rules.

 

If personal attacks or insults are not allowed under the rules of the site they should not be tolerated. That is what a set of rules are for. You are right there are different personalities on the board but there should only be one set of rules. Why can 98% of people on this board post in a respectful fashion without personal insults or attacks but 2% can not? How many should be allowed? If it becomes 20% is it a problem? 50%? 75%? I personally have seen that often the people that make the personal attacks are also people that get really upset very fast when something negative is thrown their way. I have no problem with anybody giving a strong opinion about a doctors results, ethics, costs, etc but when other HT patients get personally attacked for having a contrary opinion that is going too far in my opinion. icon_smile.gif

4374 grafts-7/2/2008-Dr Rahal

485 singles

2336 doubles

1526 triples

16 quads

9809 total hairs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
Exactly! If a friend of mine said he did his research and scheduled a surgery with one of the top-5 doctors in the industry, I would not post pictures of NW-7 and try to scare him with "what if" questions. I would not question the integrity of the doctor he chose.

 

i could not disagree with you more.........

 

there are people like myself who feel that ASKING QUESTIONS are the only way to get true answers... hopeful did not post this to scare drew he posted it because he felt its something drew REALLY needs to consider... and drew is better for it if you ask me...

 

with all due respect, i feel as though you see things backwards man...

 

hopeful wishes the best for drew i TRULY believe this and he said so himself.. infact he cares so much about a total stranger he takes time to inform him of risks that you dont seem to believe exist as long as he chooses a "top 5er"......

 

i know you may not want to hear this but patients have been BOTH hurt and helped by their decision to have a HT, EVEN THOSE CHOOSING THE BEST THE BUSINESS HAS TO OFFER.. their stories can be found on here aswell.. it may be a scary thing for some to accept but that does not change the FACT that it is real, and should be considered... with a decision such as this that is so very LIFE CHANGING one does not need encouragment my friend... they need ANSWERS.. REAL ANSWERS.... the encouragment comes after they have taken the leap

 

some people buy into the cherrypicked results

some have seen enough to know that they are exactly that.

 

some people help by trying to inform

some people help by saying 'good luck slugger'

 

personally if i came here to ACTUALLY LEARN i dont need ecouragement NEAR as much as i need facts...... even if those facts are scary.... im a big boy so i could handle it..infact, id be thankful

*** RESULTS WILL 100%, without a DOUBT, VARY***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
Lost,

I do not see the forum rules listed. If Bill can show us where to find the forum rules that might help clear up the situation at hand.

 

wantego-- there is no situation here, as ive said. we both agree.. personal attacks and insults should not be allowed.. and they are not apparently.. i dont think Bill needs to post anything.. there should be one set of rules we follow....

*** RESULTS WILL 100%, without a DOUBT, VARY***

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
Originally posted by lost my swagger:
Lost,

I do not see the forum rules listed. If Bill can show us where to find the forum rules that might help clear up the situation at hand.

 

wantego-- there is no situation here, as ive said. we both agree.. personal attacks and insults should not be allowed.. and they are not apparently.. i dont think Bill needs to post anything.. there should be one set of rules we follow....

 

Lost,

When I say the situation at hand I was speaking about this thread. icon_smile.gif

4374 grafts-7/2/2008-Dr Rahal

485 singles

2336 doubles

1526 triples

16 quads

9809 total hairs

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
Originally posted by TheEmperor:
Originally posted by wantego:
Originally posted by lost my swagger:

its a sensitive age we live in....

 

some understand that posters like PGP do more good for this place than bad(franlky its quite onesided if you ask me)... and others cant handle his aggressive nature, i think its OBV which side i think ought to grow up. oddly enough it not the side who 'slings the mud' but rather the side that apparently does not realize that they actually do have the ability to brush the mud off..

 

we are not perfect, we are different and as a result we make this site better... its a shame to see one of the more helpful posters here take heat(and be called out by rsf) over a character trait that some of you dont agree with.. im trying to say this with as much respect as i can but those who let PGPs occasional 'tuff talk' dictate who they think he is as a poster need to work on their observation skills. another option might be toughen up a bit...

 

Lost,

With all due respect I tend to disagree about this "toughening up" stuff. Most adults do not come to a hair transplant board to be insulted. They come because of a serious issue effecting their lives. They often are opening themselves up in a somewhat vulnerable position (including posting bad pictures of themselves) seeking advice. If this board ever becomes about "toughening up" to personal insults (thankfully Bill and Pat make sure that isn't the case) then many people will go elsewhere.

 

The internet is a place for some people to express their anger in a way that they would not do in person usually. That is why we have the term "internet tough guy". I have seen that it is often the same exact guys on sports message boards that often have trouble or get banned from many different boards because they can not deal with other posters respectfully. Shouldn't we treat other posters with the same respect on this board as you would if you were looking at them eye to eye? I'm only one person but I do speak to many people on this board and I know that some of them often choose not to speak at times because they do not want to be personally attacked. Personal attacks do not have a place on a hair transplant message-board in my opinion. If you do not like a doctors results than be critical of the results but insulting other posters only because they hold a different point of view is going over the line in my opinion.

 

Exactly! If a friend of mine said he did his research and scheduled a surgery with one of the top-5 doctors in the industry, I would not post pictures of NW-7 and try to scare him with "what if" questions. I would not question the integrity of the doctor he chose.

 

I would absolutely not be trying to instil doubts, but rather encouraging him and wishing him well.

 

I totally agree about the internet tough guy phenomenon. Maybe I didnt read all the posts before, but I have recently noticed an uptick in the agression and hostility. It is as if this is spillover from HLH which is no longer relevant. The mighty armani has been exposed, now is seems some malcontents are aiming at other doctors who have a huge record of success.

 

I think there are guys who are NW6/7, who maybe dont have the money or follicular resources for a good HT, or maybe they were disfigured by a bad surgeon, and they take this negativity out on other posters.

 

Advanced Norwoods are getting good HTs these days from the right clinics.

 

Its really beyond me how you try to parallelize the post of wantego with what i said on Drew's thread?You say.. exactly!... and then you talk about my post. drew seemed to understand dr. Wong seemed to understand but you simply dont get it.

 

Now i just want to say because i geard about PGP that once i had a big fight with him and he honestly started creeping me out but i am smart enough to understand when someone offers a lot to this community. Even then... i wouldnt change PGP for 100 smooth talking posters. But thats just me and this place needs everyone to respect everybody and talk an a civil manner.

should we believe everything?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member

Alot of dirt being kicked up for no good reason, which may scare people away, especially once they have chosen. Dr. Wong has never been known to make any foolish choices and has shown many fantastic transformations of high norwoods, Jotronic included.

 

Going through with the operation is a huge emotional and financial investment and people need encouragement.

 

Once someone has put a deposit on (say) a new Mercedes, and is awaiting its delivery from the factory, you dont start posting links to consumer reports showing all the flaws with the model. You post encouragement for a decision well made.

 

There is a time and a place, and a proper manner. Kicking up dirt, and questioning one's choice (especially given it is Wong), really has no place. There are tactful ways to handle concerns like these without inciting riots in the forums. Perhaps real concerns can be aired privately without as much dramatic effect.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Senior Member
Now i just want to say because i geard about PGP that once i had a big fight with him and he honestly started creeping me out

was that when it all started as a joke and all of a sudden PGP turned into the big green monster Hulk and started to swing left and right relentlessly icon_smile.gif?

BAD PGP BAD, if you ever try something like that on me know that i'll be telling it to my momma and then you'll see.....

seriously i never knew/realized how sensitive this forum really is/was. but when it comes to warnings and suspensions, then yeah i can see what the fuss is all about. after all there is only so much room under the umbrella and it would be so hard to keep everybody under it so somebody needs to get wet too.

but if you can dance on the water and not get wet, then you are the real vet! ??“ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLmodGd7utE

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...