Finasteride....another twist

[Xanadu]

If you have been scared off from finasteride from all the negative voices online, then there might be yet another reason to reconsider.

This video that just came out is perfectly in line with what my own Scandinavian doctor told me, and which I have previously shared in here. 

 

[shiba1985]

while he does sound credible, just cause an MD posted something on youtube and quoted a few "new" studies does not make it the new truth. 
The link between finasteride and prostate cancer is still pretty complex the last I reviewed. It may decrease cancer but may cause more cancers as it can delay detection. AKA your PSA maynot increase despite harboring a malignancy due to finasteride. While someone not on finasteride will have a sharp rise causing a red flag sooner, and hence able to take action sooner. 

Not saying that he may not be right but take it cause you want to to prevent hair not cause of this. 

 

[duckling]

lol nothing new what he said about fin.  Think everyone on here or other forums knew this already. His thumbnail was catchy so maybe some of people on youtube will get him views. But what an absurd title "medical doctor confesses to drug use" ? cant the people who prescribe it so much and advocate it so much be on it too ! click bait titles

[NegativeNorwood]

Imagine having and account here and NOT taking finasteride + minoxidil. Bottom of the barrel IQ, shaving the head and even buying a hair system are much wiser options than a hair transplant for someone balding that doesn't want to take fin+minox for life.

[Coldblade7]

3 hours ago, NegativeNorwood said:

Imagine having and account here and NOT taking finasteride + minoxidil. Bottom of the barrel IQ, shaving the head and even buying a hair system are much wiser options than a hair transplant for someone balding that doesn't want to take fin+minox for life.

Is minoxidil necessary? For a norwood 1.5 or 2. Would you recommend taking minoxidil or just finasteride is enough? I'm currently on around 2mg finasteride per week

[NegativeNorwood]

36 minutes ago, Coldblade7 said:

Is minoxidil necessary? For a norwood 1.5 or 2. Would you recommend taking minoxidil or just finasteride is enough? I'm currently on around 2mg finasteride per week

 

Definitely, it is what gives the highest chances of regrowth. I'm Norwood 1.5 and take 1mg oral finasteride + 5mg oral minoxidil per day before going to sleep. 

I'm 9 weeks into that regime and experience 0 side effects, beard is much stronger, eyebrows look fuller already (very welcoming effect for me). Hairline still is too early to judge. Can't wait for a year to pass and see the definitive results.

[GoliGoliGoli]

8 hours ago, NegativeNorwood said:

Imagine having and account here and NOT taking finasteride + minoxidil. Bottom of the barrel IQ, shaving the head and even buying a hair system are much wiser options than a hair transplant for someone balding that doesn't want to take fin+minox for life.

Not true. If you have a good donor, good money, and have not super aggressive balding for your age then you don't really need to take finasteride. Sure it's always better to take Fin from the perspective of keeping your hair, but some of us prioritize our hormonal health over our hair. 

If you have a poor donor, poor money (Or simply insist on going to a very expensive Dr), and have aggressive balding then you're right, a HT probably isn't for you. 

You see this all the time of this forum: One size fits all prescriptions for everyone. Everyone's balding situation is different and needs to be approached uniquely. The only people with bottom of the barrel IQ's are those who think everyones approach needs to be the same. 

[NegativeNorwood]

39 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Not true. If you have a good donor, good money, and have not super aggressive balding for your age then you don't really need to take finasteride. Sure it's always better to take Fin from the perspective of keeping your hair, but some of us prioritize our hormonal health over our hair. 

If you have a poor donor, poor money (Or simply insist on going to a very expensive Dr), and have aggressive balding then you're right, a HT probably isn't for you. 

You see this all the time of this forum: One size fits all prescriptions for everyone. Everyone's balding situation is different and needs to be approached uniquely. The only people with bottom of the barrel IQ's are those who think everyones approach needs to be the same. 

 

Muh hormonal health, side effects are non existent in 99% of people, and if they happen, they stop after 2 months of continued use. If you take the meds at night, the effects are most potent while sleeping and barely noticeable in the day.

Being worried about hair loss and not taking meds is stupid, no matter how you want to put it.

This forum always speaks of being conservative with hair, but many members reject the most conservative option: taking hair meds while having minimal if any hairloss. Instead, most wait to reach Norwood 4-5 to take meds and pay one or two transplants to be Norwood 2-3 (in a best case scenario where they aren't botched).

Btw it's not about going to the most expensive doctors (there are bad and expensive ones), is about going to the best doctors, and those are always expensive. The less hair you need (thanks to meds), the less you have to pay. There's no such a thing as a "good enough doctor" btw, those are just mediocre with low resolution pictures so you can't tell how bad the work actually is.

Everyone's balding is different, and they have to take meds to stop it. If not, shaving the head or buying hair system are an amazing option and much more fitting than a transplant. It is what it is.

Edited May 30, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[Xanadu]

16 hours ago, shiba1985 said:

while he does sound credible, just cause an MD posted something on youtube and quoted a few "new" studies does not make it the new truth. 
The link between finasteride and prostate cancer is still pretty complex the last I reviewed. It may decrease cancer but may cause more cancers as it can delay detection. AKA your PSA maynot increase despite harboring a malignancy due to finasteride. While someone not on finasteride will have a sharp rise causing a red flag sooner, and hence able to take action sooner. 

Not saying that he may not be right but take it cause you want to to prevent hair not cause of this. 

 

It doesn't delay detection, rather taking Fin makes it easier to detect.

[Xanadu]

My doctor is bald as an egg, and has been for all the time I have known him, and he says that he has taken fin for a few years, only for it's properties in lowering the risk of prostate cancer.

[GoliGoliGoli]

37 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

Muh hormonal health, side effects are non existent in 99% of people, and if they happen, they stop after 2 months of continued use. If you take the meds at night, the effects are most potent while sleeping and barely noticeable at day.

Being worried about hair loss and not taking meds is stupid, no matter how you want to put it.

This forum always speaks of being conservative with hair, but many members reject the most conservative option: taking hair meds while having minimal if any hairloss. Instead, most wait to reach Norwood 5 to take the meds and pay one or two transplants to be Norwood 3 (in a best case scenario where they aren't botched).

Btw it's not about going to the most expensive doctors, is about going to the best doctors, and those are always expensive. The less hair you need (thanks to meds), the less you have to pay. There's no such a thing as a "good enough doctor" btw, those are just mediocre with low resolution pictures so you can't tell how bad the work actually is.

Everyone's balding is different, and they have to take meds to stop it. If not, shaving the head or buying hair system are an amazing option and much more fitting than a transplant. It is what it is.

Who are you trying to convince here, me or yourself? I agree that a lot of people tolerate Fin just fine, but the number is not 99%. 

Any medication comes with risks. A medication that lowers a key androgen is going to come with a certain suite of risks (Even if you don't present with the usual side effects such as brain fog or ED). I'll remind you that Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's, and not for no reason. DHT is a key male hormone.  

[NegativeNorwood]

2 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Who are you trying to convince here, me or yourself? I agree that a lot of people tolerate Fin just fine, but the number is not 99%. 

Any medication comes with risks. A medication that lowers a key androgen is going to come with a certain suite of risks (Even if you don't present with the usual side effects such as brain fog or ED). I'll remind you that Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's, and not for no reason. DHT is a key male hormone.  

 

LMAO if you think 1mg of finasteride per day is going to turn anyone into a woman. Peak strawman argument.

Stop embarassing yourself, I'll do you a favour and end this conversation now. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

Just now, NegativeNorwood said:

 

LMAO if you think 1mg of finasteride per day is going to turn anyone into a woman. Peak strawman argument.

Stop embarassing yourself, I'll do you a favour and end this conversation now. 

It's actually you making the straw man argument... But I don't think you even know what that term really means. Let me help you by explaining: 

I never said 1mg of Fin per day is going to turn anyone into a woman. What I said is that fin is commonly used in MtF transgenders which is a verifiable fact. You then try to build a strawman to knock down by claiming I said something completely separate from what was actually said. 

I'll repeat it for you, let me know if you disagree with this sentence specifically: Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's. 

 

[NegativeNorwood]

7 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

It's actually you making the straw man argument... But I don't think you even know what that term really means. Let me help you by explaining: 

I never said 1mg of Fin per day is going to turn anyone into a woman. What I said is that fin is commonly used in MtF transgenders which is a verifiable fact. You then try to build a strawman to knock down by claiming I said something completely separate from what was actually said. 

I'll repeat it for you, let me know if you disagree with this sentence specifically: Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's. 

 

 

You are just given an inch and taking a mile, using extreme examples out of context to justify you not taking finasteride.

Repeat with me, son: 1mg of finasteride per day won't turn you into a MtF transgender (they take 5+mg per day in addition of more potent hormones, like estradiol, in addition of undergoing feminization surgeries).

Here's one MtF transitioner saying you are not going to feminize without taking estradiol, regardless of how much fin you take:

TL;DR: get on fin, you are already feminine if you notice "feminization" and just blame it on fin instead of yourself (nothing wrong with being feminine, just don't blame fin).

Edited May 30, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[GoliGoliGoli]

I agree, 1mg of fin per day won't turn you into a MtF transgender. I never said that so I'm not sure why you keep acting like I did.

I simply said Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's (As part of their hormonal transition therapy). This is a fact. Do you disagree that this is a fact?

 

As far as the 1mg vs 5mg thing, studies have shown that 1mg lowers serum DHT about as much as 5mg. Actually the 0.2mg lowers serum DHT about as much as 5mg. See below link

The effects of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgen levels in men with androgenetic alopecia - PubMed (nih.gov)

[TorontoMan]

10 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

I agree, 1mg of fin per day won't turn you into a MtF transgender. I never said that so I'm not sure why you keep acting like I did.

I simply said Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's (As part of their hormonal transition therapy). This is a fact. Do you disagree that this is a fact?

 

As far as the 1mg vs 5mg thing, studies have shown that 1mg lowers serum DHT about as much as 5mg. Actually the 0.2mg lowers serum DHT about as much as 5mg. See below link

The effects of finasteride on scalp skin and serum androgen levels in men with androgenetic alopecia - PubMed (nih.gov)

It is slightly inaccurate, transitioning is done primarily with estrogen and much strong androgen inhibitors, one being spironolactone (for male to female) 

Edited May 30, 2023 by TorontoMan

[GoliGoliGoli]

Just now, TorontoMan said:

It is slightly inaccurate, transitioning is done primarily with estrogen and much strong androgen inhibitors, one being spironolactone (for male to female) 

Tell me, what is inaccurate about saying "Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's"?

Please, point out the inaccuracy. What in that sentence specifically is inaccurate? 

[TorontoMan]

3 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Tell me, what is inaccurate about saying "Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's"?

Please, point out the inaccuracy. What in that sentence specifically is inaccurate? 

Well you're not wrong in what you're saying, but I'm confused about your overall message. Finasteride and the subsequent reduction in DHT is not enough to feminize a man, so whats the worth in bringing up anything about transitioners 

[NegativeNorwood]

8 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Tell me, what is inaccurate about saying "Finasteride is commonly used by MtF transgender's"?

Please, point out the inaccuracy. What in that sentence specifically is inaccurate? 

 

Let me put it this way for you.

Imagine a man going to a hardware store, where you are an employee.

The man tries to buy an screwdriver, and you say to him:

So you are a NASA engineer, they use that tool a lot.

He responds: No, is just to fix the kitchen's sink.

And you say: yeah but for the NASA, they use it a lot.

 

That would be pretty similar to our conversation with regards to finasteride and transgenders, just complete nonsense without context coming from you.

 

[GoliGoliGoli]

2 minutes ago, TorontoMan said:

Well you're not wrong in what you're saying, but I'm confused about your overall message. Finasteride and the subsequent reduction in DHT is not enough to feminize a man, so whats the worth in bringing up anything about transitioners 

I don't think fin "feminizes a man" in the sense that it will turn you into a woman or something. But I do think it has a "feminizing effect" on men which is why gyno and ED are known side effects. So yes one reason MtF's take it is for its feminizing effect (And also because it helps combat androgenetic alopecia which is important for MtFs also). 

DHT is what's known as a "pure androgen" or "true androgen" because it can't be converted to estrogen like Testosterone can. So yes, Fin lowers DHT and raises estrogen, which I think makes it fair to say it has a feminizing effect. 

[GoliGoliGoli]

10 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

 

Let me put it this way for you.

Imagine a man going to a hardware store, where you are an employee.

The man tries to buy an screwdriver, and you say to him:

So you are a NASA engineer, they use that tool a lot.

He responds: No, is just to fix the kitchen's sink.

And you say: yeah but for the NASA, they use it a lot.

 

That would be pretty similar to our conversation with regards to finasteride and transgenders, just complete nonsense without context coming from you.

 

Every reply of yours with additional strawman arguments makes it all the more laughable that you were the one to accuse me of using strawman arguments... 

Stick to the issues and the actual points being made.  Lowering DHT and raising estrogen has a feminizing effect, which is one of the reasons MtF's use it (But not the only reason). This is my point. That's it. It's not complicated. We can argue about how significant the "feminizing effect is", but I don't think it's really debateable that is does have a feminzing effect when you simply observe its mechanism of action. 

[NegativeNorwood]

1 hour ago, GoliGoliGoli said:

Every reply of yours with additional strawman arguments makes it all the more laughable that you were the one to accuse me of using strawman arguments... 

Stick to the issues and the actual points being made.  Lowering DHT and raising estrogen has a feminizing effect, which is one of the reasons MtF's use it (But not the only reason). This is my point. That's it. It's not complicated. We can argue about how significant the "feminizing effect is", but I don't think it's really debateable that is does have a feminzing effect when you simply observe its mechanism of action. 

 

Like talking to a wall, you hyperfocus on the sentence and can't see the context.

As I said before, the conversation ends now. You already made up your mind and clearly are unable to understand the most basic contexts of a conversation, so it is a waste of time to argue with you.

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by Melvin- Moderator
Removed offensive language

[GoliGoliGoli]

Just now, NegativeNorwood said:

 

Like talking to a wall...peak autism, you hyperfocus on the sentence and can't see the context.

As I said before, the conversation ends now. You already made up your mind and clearly are unable to understand the most basic contexts of a conversation, so it is a waste of time to argue with you.

 

Fin has a feminizing effect by nature of how it lowers DHT and raises estrogen. This isn't up for debate. This is settled science.

It's completely fair for us to have a disagreement on how strong of a feminizing effect that is, and whether it's so weak an effect that it warrants using if you are concerned with MPB. Everyone has different priorities. Some people will be fine with risking the feminizing effect in order to keep their hair, and may not ever even notice anything from the feminizing effect that makes them concerned. 

[Turkhair]

These type of videos serves no purpose than to generate views, misguide users and scare potential balding men who could’ve been saved from heading down the path of hair transplants and full blown NW6-7.

The makers of these videos/content are really stone cold. Baldness is a devastating disease and it ruins lives. These fearmongerers however don’t care, is just sad.

 

[Xanadu]

5 hours ago, Turkhair said:

These type of videos serves no purpose than to generate views, misguide users and scare potential balding men who could’ve been saved from heading down the path of hair transplants and full blown NW6-7.

The makers of these videos/content are really stone cold. Baldness is a devastating disease and it ruins lives. These fearmongerers however don’t care, is just sad.

 

Yes, those videos serve more purpose than all the scaremongers, which have hurt the lives of so many. 

I have heard countless times "I wish I had started earlier"

I think you might not have watched the video.... he is not a scaremongerer.... quite the opposite.