Dr. Sethi vs Dr. Bansai

[Rafael Manelli]

1 minute ago, ready4Hair said:

It isn't the vertical per se it is the angle that works so nicely.

Not sure what you mean. Maybe you misunderstood my post. 

I'm just saying that you don't absolutely need the temples buffed to look natural, because they're not fully receded. You still have good temples compared to many on this forum. 

But you could still improve them. 

[ready4Hair]

24 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

The benefit of increased density on a more conservative hairline is only if there is insufficient donor to get high density on the aggressive line. 

I think you have enough donor to get high density even with the aggressive lines. 

Sure, I guess in person will tell. Clearly if the line has to go up it is fine and if it had to be concave as well (as my original hairline was).  I'd go higher in exchange for temples without a doubt.

[ready4Hair]

10 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Not sure what you mean. Maybe you misunderstood my post. 

I'm just saying that you don't absolutely need the temples buffed to look natural, because they're not fully receded. You still have good temples compared to many on this forum. 

But you could still improve them. 

Oh. I'm saying it is not the distance from the forehead per say it is the angle that makes the temples work so well and frame so nicely. 

[ready4Hair]

1 minute ago, ready4Hair said:

Sure, I guess in person will tell. Clearly if the line has to go up it is fine and if it had to be concave as well (as my original hairline was).  I'd go higher in exchange for temples without a doubt.

Likewise on the hairline it is not even the height from the front but the side that covers that curve that I think makes all the difference too.

[Rafael Manelli]

The sharp angles make a big difference. 

[ready4Hair]

So I also sent in my pictures along with the mock UPS and proposed hairline from Eugenics to Hassan and Wong who Have a reputation among the best especially when it comes to hairlines.

 Below is their answer

"The doctors have reviewed your case and feel you are a good candidate for a hair restoration procedure at our clinic. They recommend rebuilding of the hairline and frontal zone requiring something in the 3,000 to 4,000 graft range. The exact number will depend on hairline placement, amount of temple reconstruction and how far into your existing hair they'll need to go. If we can do some work in the crown as well, this may increase the number of grafts required closer to 4,000 or slightly more. How conservative or aggressive we can be and what might be the best approach as far as hairline design can be further discussed at the time of the procedure. They feel that even if the total number of grafts does not exceed 3,000, a substantial cosmetic impact can be achieved. If in the future you continue to lose hair behind the transplanted area, you may need further procedures to reconstruct those areas.

The hairline you have proposed may be a little too aggressive. Something close may be possible if all factors are favorable. It is likely something between your existing hairline and the proposed hairline that might be best. Among other factors, the doctor will evaluate your donor area, final hair loss pattern, facial features and bone structure along with your input when designing a proper hairline that would best suit you. He may give you 3 options and you can together decide which one you like or make slight alterations to one of the options. He will try and deliver on a hairline you would like but at the same time he will not create a hairline you desire that he feels will look unnatural. Some patients are well versed on the details that are necessary to design a proper hairline. Others not so much but they understand once explained what should and shouldn’t be done.  As long as you are reasonable and understand the doctor has the knowledge and experience in this arena and you will be happy to defer to the doctor’s advice on design, we can proceed. In the end we will give you the hairline you want if it is possible and safe but we’ll also have to protect you from yourself if the design you desire will not look natural. Hairline design can have a dramatic effect on appearance and final result. The idea is to make you look as appealing as possible. In some cases a more conservative hairline with the right density and design will actually make you look more handsome than a more aggressive one.  In the end you’ll need to be happy with what the doctor advises is the most aggressive hairline placement possible even if it may not be as low as your proposed hairline."

Not so adverse to bringing hairline up if temples are reconstructed and density is there. Interesting to me they propose 3,000 to 4,000 for the front vs 2500-3000 from Eugenics.  But I'm all for density  and I'7ve seen amazing results with 4,000 on NW 7 so I'd think 4k to restore front would be dynamite.

They are def more expensive, as in close to 2x as much so that is definitely a consideration...

Edited March 7, 2023 by ready4Hair

[ready4Hair]

@Rafael Manelli @NegativeNorwood @Melvin- Moderator
Wow, got this back from Dr. Lorenzo's office 

"The line you have shown us in the photo attached is a hairline of a 16 year old and with 60 years old we do not do that kind of hairline I’m afraid."

Yikes.  Dr. Hasson was more diplomatic 

"The hairline you have proposed may be a little too aggressive. Something close may be possible if all factors are favorable. It is likely something between your existing hairline and the proposed hairline that might be best. In some cases a more conservative hairline with the right density and design will actually make you look more handsome than a more aggressive one."

My plan in fact is to plan a trip to Dr. Hasson's office in Vancouver in the next 2-3 months and do an in-person assessment of my donor area and have him draw some realistic hairlines based on that.  Really don't want to just fly to India or Turkey or Europe or even anywhere in US with a HT planned and a doctor who never even saw me.

[NegativeNorwood]

Avoid Lorenzo. Too expensive, too rude and mediocre results at best. 

That's a good plan, in person consult is always the best option.

Edited March 8, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[Rafael Manelli]

Sounds like a plan. Are you considering FUT? 

[ready4Hair]

23 minutes ago, NegativeNorwood said:

Avoid Lorenzo. Too expensive, too rude and mediocre results at best. 

That's a good plan, in person consult is always the best option.

He used to be a rockstar when I was previously considering HT. But yeah that reply itself tells me all I need to know.

[ready4Hair]

23 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Sounds like a plan. Are you considering FUT? 

FUT, not if my life depended on it.

I must say the fact two well regarded (ok with Dr. L at least previously well regarded) HT Docs rejected the Eugenics hairline gives me some Eugenixs pause.

In any event yeah, investing a single day and a few hundred dollars to get an in person consult and evaluation sounds like a/the plan.

[Rafael Manelli]

Dr Lorenzo's reply seems bizarre. There is nothing wrong with an aggressive hairline if the donor:recipient ratio is favorable. 

Clinics will tell young men "we don't want to do a strong hairline in case you lose more hair and run out of grafts" and then tell older men "we don't want to do a strong hairline as you'd look unusual at your age" 

Tell that to Ronald Reagan, George Lucas or George Clooney. 

I still think the aggressive hairline is reasonable for you. 

What do you think of this one? 

 

https://youtu.be/8v4g5RYegsA

[ready4Hair]

10 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Dr Lorenzo's reply seems bizarre. There is nothing wrong with an aggressive hairline if the donor:recipient ratio is favorable. 

Clinics will tell young men "we don't want to do a strong hairline in case you lose more hair and run out of grafts" and then tell older men "we don't want to do a strong hairline as you'd look unusual at your age" 

Tell that to Ronald Reagan, George Lucas or George Clooney. 

I still think the aggressive hairline is reasonable for you. 

What do you think of this one? 

 

https://youtu.be/8v4g5RYegsA

Totally agree. Why should they care if my hairline is a teen one if it can be done? Morally outraged? I mean are they petitioning against James's Brolin's natural hairline.

And, yeah, Hasson's reply is the reasonable one; IF your donor allows AND it makes sense for your face/bone-structure.  Which beats either Eugenixs (as low as possible) or Lorenzo (it is not age-appropriate)

I think the dude in the video started out with a good hairline too.

 

[Rafael Manelli]

If you look up Greg Berzinsky on YouTube, you could get that sort of look. Same age as you. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Rafael Manelli

[ready4Hair]

@Rafael Manelli 

41 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Dr Lorenzo's reply seems bizarre. There is nothing wrong with an aggressive hairline if the donor:recipient ratio is favorable. 

Clinics will tell young men "we don't want to do a strong hairline in case you lose more hair and run out of grafts" and then tell older men "we don't want to do a strong hairline as you'd look unusual at your age" 

Tell that to Ronald Reagan, George Lucas or George Clooney. 

I still think the aggressive hairline is reasonable for you. 

What do you think of this one? 

 

https://youtu.be/8v4g5RYegsA

Replied thusly to Lorenzo's rep

"I'm not really clear on the relevance of my being 60 and wanting a younger hairline. The only considerations should be my donor area vs potential future loss and perhaps bone/facial structure.

 

Thank you anyway."

[Xanadu]

I guess Doctors and clinics are trying to avoid the many examples of people who end up looking weird although their goal was to look younger. 

We know this has happened across such vanity operations (like HTs). We all know countless examples I'm sure - traditionally of women like Madonna, Cher and whoever else. And in recent year men are also starting along the same.

For example Cowell, who may have smoother skin, and a socalled juvenile hairline.... but to quote Bill Burr "why do these people prefer to look like a 25 year old lizard, rather than a 50 year old human?".

I guess a counter argument to how these doctors see it might be that HTs do not have the same risks as other plastic operations etc. 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Xanadu

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, ready4Hair said:

@Rafael Manelli @NegativeNorwood @Melvin- Moderator
Wow, got this back from Dr. Lorenzo's office 

"The line you have shown us in the photo attached is a hairline of a 16 year old and with 60 years old we do not do that kind of hairline I’m afraid."

Yikes.  Dr. Hasson was more diplomatic 

"The hairline you have proposed may be a little too aggressive. Something close may be possible if all factors are favorable. It is likely something between your existing hairline and the proposed hairline that might be best. In some cases a more conservative hairline with the right density and design will actually make you look more handsome than a more aggressive one."

My plan in fact is to plan a trip to Dr. Hasson's office in Vancouver in the next 2-3 months and do an in-person assessment of my donor area and have him draw some realistic hairlines based on that.  Really don't want to just fly to India or Turkey or Europe or even anywhere in US with a HT planned and a doctor who never even saw me.

I mean they’re not lying. I tried to be polite when I said the hairline was too aggressive, especially considering you’re balding on top significantly. Maybe if you just had a high hairline. Everyone likes to give examples like Ronald Reagan as older men with juvenile hairlines. But the reality is these are few and far in between. Also, they have full density, not just a low hairline with a thin crown. I think the hairline I drew was a lot better. Hair transplants do not return your teenage hair that’s the truth. 

[ready4Hair]

1 hour ago, Rafael Manelli said:

If you look up Greg Berzinsky on YouTube, you could get that sort of look. Same age as you. 

That temple and framing would be perfect.

[NegativeNorwood]

11 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

I guess Doctors and clinics are trying to avoid the many examples of people who end up looking weird although their goal was to look younger. 

We know this has happened across such vanity operations (like HTs). We all know countless examples I'm sure - traditionally of women like Madonna, Cher and whoever else. And in recent year men are also starting along the same.

For example Cowell, who may have smoother skin, and a socalled juvenile hairline.... but to quote Bill Burr "why do these people prefer to look like a 25 year old lizard, rather than a 50 year old human?".

https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news/celebs-tv/simon-cowell-sparks-concern-britains-7882997

 

What an overfilled face has to do with a hair transplant?  (Answer: nothing)

OP is clearly a smart man and has realistic goals, he didn't mention fillers or surgery, just a lower hairline (which Eugenix, a hair transplant clinic, drew in the first place, not him).

I get that you and some HT clinics don't like Norwood 1 hairlines, really, but what you do is peak straw grasping.

PS: we haven't seen OP's face to judge the actual hairline height, what Eugenix drew in the first place may even be a perfectly proportional hairline that follows the rule of thirds. We don't know without seeing the full face.

Edited March 8, 2023 by NegativeNorwood

[Rafael Manelli]

10 minutes ago, Xanadu said:

I guess Doctors and clinics are trying to avoid the many examples of people who end up looking weird although their goal was to look younger. 

We know this has happened across such vanity operations (like HTs). We all know countless examples I'm sure - traditionally of women like Madonna, Cher and whoever else. And in recent year men are also starting along the same.

For example Cowell, who may have smoother skin, and a socalled juvenile hairline.... but to quote Bill Burr "why do these people prefer to look like a 25 year old lizard, rather than a 50 year old human?".

I guess a counter argument to how these doctors see it might be that HTs do not have the same risks as other plastic operations etc. 

This is silly. What Simon has had done is far different than what hair restorationists are doing. 

[Melvin- Admin]

5 minutes ago, ready4Hair said:

That temple and framing would be perfect.

This is the hairline that I drew a page back. It’s not straight at all. It’s curved not flat and straight.

[Rafael Manelli]

Can you post photos of the top, crown etc? Maybe with wet combed back hair? 

[Rafael Manelli]

Interesting video from Greg about his hairline. 

 

 

[Xanadu]

Interesting topic about hairlines. Personally I think juvenile hairlines (before the onset of puberty and testosterone) look like that to me. Like there is a lack of testosterone. Usually in an 8 year old we know what the reason is, but in an older person it just looks weird with a concave hairline. 

I guess tastes vary. But do some people actually like these concave hairlines? Sure, they look cute in kids, but in a grown up? Here is an example of a guy with somewhat of a concave hairline and it might be natural (?) but it looks anything but good to me. Brolin above has an extremely low hairline, but still very convex with clear male temples. Although Brolin's hairline is extremely low it still looks good.

 

Edited March 8, 2023 by Xanadu

[Melvin- Admin]

8 minutes ago, Rafael Manelli said:

Can you post photos of the top, crown etc? Maybe with wet combed back hair? 

He posted it already. Keep in mind this is with a slight comb over from the sides, the crown is significantly thinning.