DR RAHAL - AS GOOD AS HE SEEMS?

[SpaceBetween]

haha okay I think I'm starting to understand the point of this thread...

[Bill - Seemiller]

Swagger,

 

I see nothing wrong with the discussion between you, Ron J and other members. However, I want to comment on this statement

 

on a side note, i recieved a PRIVATE MESSAGE FROM A PATIENT OF ONE OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED DRS being discussed in this thread.. he seemed to not only agree with me, but seems to have first hand knowledge of unhappy patients from both FELLER and RAHAL... THIS IS SOMETHING THAT I CANT EVEN BELIEVE IM TRYING TO PROVE AS IT SHOULD JUST BE COMMON KNOWLEDGE THAT ALL DRS HAVE UNSATISFIED PATIENTS, but apparently ron you really do feel that some of these drs just NEVER mess up.......

 

This statement is unfair and is an example of an unsubstantied and potentially damaging claim. In other words, you heard from a patient who's telling you about other patients who are less than satisfied with their results from certain doctors. Not only is this far from proof to support your belief, it's potentially harmful to doctor's reputations, quite possibly for nothing.

 

Not only is it 4th hand information, one should never conclude that just because a patient claims he's dissatisfied with his results that his results are poor. For instance, he could have had unrealistic expectations. The point is, this is all speculation and not proof of anything.

 

It's the responsbility of patients to work out their own concerns which may or may not include sharing their legitimate and genuine experiences and/or concerns on this forum.

 

Therefore, please do not use this kind of speculative information to support your case. It's unsubstantiated and unfair. You may believe what you're hearing, but nobody can draw an accurate conclusion without proper evidence. That's why entire threads are devoted to patients who share their genuine concerns and photos and doctors are given a chance to share their side of the story.

 

That said, it's true that no matter how good a doctor is, they will have less than satisfied patients. All doctors will also have patients with less than optimal growth. This is why terms like "X-factor" and "H-factor" exist and are used to describe cases of less than optimal growth.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[lost my swagger]

This statement is unfair and is an examples of an unsubstantied claim.

 

Bill.. then take it for what it is then..

 

its a claim indeed.. i will not try to pass it as anything more... however SINCE IT IS TRUE im gonna say it.. and it can be up to those reading to either belive me or not given the evidence(or lack there of) presented before them....

 

so.. NOTE TO ALL.... my above claim that Bill is pointing out is a CLAIM. i will not go into any further detail then that. period.....

 

and i am not trying to justify my previous statements with sharing that info publically... however because the PM is real i felt the need to share it.... lets think of it as an FYI for anyone interested

 

believe me or dont. makes no difference.....

 

hope that explaination is good enough Bill, if not maybe you can PM me... id hate to side track this thread..lol.. its stayed on point this whole time!!

 

by the way, your correct about it being damaging to the drs i named.. as a result i removed the drs names from my "claim" since it is hearsay spoken in a PM.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Swagger,

 

I'll address you publicly since the discussion is still very on key point.

 

I appreciate that you recognize it's a claim. But the issue here isn't whether or not we believe you. The issue is whether or not the information you have is accurate. After all, you are hearing it from another member who heard it from the actual patients. The bottom line is, unless the patient(s) come forward themselves, photos are presented, and the doctor has a chance to share his/her side of the story, there is no way anyone can make an accurate conclusion.

 

Let's say for instance, a patient comes forward and photos prove he did have poor growth. But then the doctor points out that grafts were placed into scar tissue which is notoriously known for less than optimal growth. Now the information of poor growth is put much more into perspective and was expected ahead of time.

 

Once again, issues of poor growth do occur, even in perfectly healthy patients. But these cases are rare in experienced hands. The rest is about managing expectations and risks to help a patient meet his short and long term hair restoration goals.

 

Regarding what you and Ron discussed privately, I'm not sure why you two feel the need to share it here, but if it's relevant to the discussion and you feel the need to share it, it's up to you two.

 

Best wishes,

 

Bill

[Ron J]

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

I got a secret about a certain poster on this thread 5 bucks and Ill tell

 

 

[lost my swagger]

Bill, i agree with your entire post, ive made an edit that i feel removes ANY specifics in terms of actual drs named.. therefor is no longer specifically damaging to any particular dr, directly... if you decide that the claim in question cannot be made then i support any decision you make.. to me it is what it is... so im sharing an experience as i believe it does carry some relation to the topic... IT IS A CLAIM, NOT SUPPORTED BY ANY EVIDENCE.

 

 

i agree with you also about sharing PMs... ron decided to take one statment i made to him privatly and make it public.. i felt this was an attempt to cast me in a poor light, so for reputations sake i decided to post MY entire PM to get it out there... ill keep rons pm reply private, because i dont roll like that.

[Ron J]

Let's review the various modifications you've had to make in your claims & just what has & hasn't been proven:

-" pick a dr and I can show you patients who were left worse off ".

-posts a paltry 3 cases: 1 w/imm. post op pics only, 1 case that was only 9 months post op then said the following when I posted his 12 month pics

" i must agree with you ron.. wongs patient at 1 year looks very good ."... and 1 case of a NW 6 getting only 3K grafts.

then:

"i must admit, a quick search for "poor" rahal results was quite difficult, i found a couple things but the cases im referring to did not include pics "

then:

" id like to believe in HTs, my god id like to, but HTs will never be able to give me what i truly want. my hair back ."

 

I'd like to known precisely how you came to the conclusion ht's can't "give you your hair back" (?). All I hear from you is harsh, negative generalizations about ht's and how they can't give you your hair back, yet I haven't seen any cases from these dr.'s you think are legitametly poor. So, then what are you basing all of your negative comments on? That's all I've been asking for this entire time, yet I still haven't seen anything from you.

 

then this:

 

"...i recieved a PRIVATE MESSAGE FROM A PATIENT OF ONE OF THE ABOVE MENTIONED DRS being discussed in this thread.. he not only agree with me, but seems to have first hand knowledge of unhappy patients from 2 of the named doctors ..."

So now your changing the argument to be that out of the THOUSANDS of cases those three clinics have performed over the years there have been some unhappy patients and STILL we have zero pic's to make a clear judgement call with what exactly they were unhappy with, and if it was warranted (?) What precisely does this prove?

 

WHAT ARE YOU BASING ALL OF YOUR NEGATIVE OPINIONS OF HT'S ON?

[Mr. GQ]

I got a secret about a certain poster on this thread 5 bucks and Ill tell

do you accept personal checks or strictly paypal

[wantego]

I pmed LMS. I told him that I did not want to be in the middle of any arguments but I did believe that he was correct with his assertion that even some of the "top docs" have some unhappy patient results.

[PLEASE GROW PLEASE]

Of course top docs have unhappy patients .

Everyone with a half a brain knows that .

The doctors will even admit this.

Its how they take care of those after the fact.

The thing is that your chances of getting a great transplant will heavily increase by going to a top clinic.

The one thing I havent seen very often are patients left worse off from the elite docs.

[eyebrowqueen]

I had an eyebrow transplant with doctor Rahal. One eyebrow did not grow in as well as he other. He couldn't tell me exactly why one didn't grow (there are lots of factors involved, one of which could be genetics) but he did offer me a free touch up procedure and put me up in their guesthouse at no charge. While I was unhappy with the initial results of my surgery, I have to say that his customer service is excellent. I can't speak to the result of my second surgery yet (I just had it 2 weeks ago) but I can say that I think the reason it is hard to find a negative review is because if a customer is unhappy they do everything in their power to satisfy them. I think it's important to consider how a doctor will handle a result that doesn't go as planned. I hope this helps.

[sharkman]

I had a very bad experience but this forum does not permit to place bad reviews without pictures about dr Rahal. So I'm just saying to watch out.

[Bill - Seemiller]

Shark man,

 

Anyone who's been around this for him long enough knows that your statement is complete bullshit. This community allows patients to share their genuine experience is good or bad. Pictures are often required when a patient shares a negative experience just as they are required to give their surgeon the necessary permission they need to respond publicly to their concerns. What we don't allow is members unfairly maligning physicians without any evidence to back up their claims. What you have to understand is that a physician's reputation is on the line when I negative experiences shared. Thus, I do not think it is too much to ask for a patient to present photos of their scalp without their face in order to show the areas of concern. This helps patients form their own educated opinions and provides the physician with enough information to be able to formulate a response.

 

If you have a legitimate experience and are willing to post photos showing the areas of concern and let your surgeon share their side of the story, then you may post about it on this forum. But I expect you to take back your knowingly false statement which is in violation of our terms of service. Continually violating our terms of service will get you suspended from our community.

 

Best regards,

 

Bill

[Bill - Seemiller]

Shark man,

 

What is your problem with posting photos anyway? Photos can presented in a way where the face is crops and not shown so that your identity remains safe and secure. Bus, there is no reason if you are using an anonymous alias and presenting photos showing your hair that you have to be worried.

 

Bill

[sharkman]

Bill common, you guys have been defending Dr Rahal the second I mentioned anything negative and then you insisted on pictures which gave you permission to remove the entire post. Even before the request for pictures, when I said that DR Rahal counted every follicle and throws out the rest your buddy denied it on behalf of DR Rahal like he work for him and I have no idea how picture evidence would prove it otherwise. I sent you a full proof that I was a legitimate client and the DR confirmed and you guys still continued to defend him.

I have no idea if DR rahal pays you or not but you are clearly not a neutral bystander and I'm sure you wouldn't scrutinize me if this would have been a Doctor that you don't like.

So you can say bullshit all you want, but your behavior clearly questions your crediblity

[sharkman]

I also would like to welcome you to the 21st century where limiting free communication on the internet is the perfect way for you to lose credibility. Suspending me will only prove that you have something to hide, and will make it more personal for me.

[win200]

Bill common, you guys have been defending Dr Rahal the second I mentioned anything negative and then you insisted on pictures which gave you permission to remove the entire post. Even before the request for pictures, when I said that DR Rahal counted every follicle and throws out the rest your buddy denied it on behalf of DR Rahal like he work for him and I have no idea how picture evidence would prove it otherwise. I sent you a full proof that I was a legitimate client and the DR confirmed and you guys still continued to defend him.

I have no idea if DR rahal pays you or not but you are clearly not a neutral bystander and I'm sure you wouldn't scrutinize me if this would have been a Doctor that you don't like.

So you can say bullshit all you want, but your behavior clearly questions your crediblity

 

I just want to forcefully rebut this based on my own, recent experience. I scheduled and paid for a 2,000 graft procedure. My final graft count, though, was 2,123, and the graft differential was complimentary. All good clinics SHOULD count grafts--and not only the grafts, but the hairs per graft--and provide the patient with a tally of how many grafts and hairs were implanted. Accusing a clinic of simply throwing away grafts because the count was above and beyond what the patient paid for is one of the most serious accusations that could be leveled against a clinic. Dr. Rahal is not perfect, and he has his disappointed patients like anyone else, but it is unimaginable that a surgeon of his caliber and reputation would do something like that. He certainly did not throw away my extra grafts.

[TakingThePlunge]

I also would like to welcome you to the 21st century where limiting free communication on the internet is the perfect way for you to lose credibility. Suspending me will only prove that you have something to hide, and will make it more personal for me.

 

It always amazes me when people feel it's their constitutional right to make anonymous accusations and publicly defame another individual (doctor or otherwise) under the protection of "free speech".

 

The fact is that slander (making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation) and libel (a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation) are not protected speech and can open one up to a lawsuit.

 

7 Things the First Amendment Doesn’t Protect

 

We offer this community as a means to share true and documented experiences, both good and bad and those reviews should be documented photographically. This is especially true when the skill or ethics of a highly reputable surgeon are being called into question.

 

No one has EVER been asked to publicly identify themselves in order to discuss their procedure on this forum. So how is it unreasonable to require that a critical post be accompanied by photos when it's easy to mask or crop out identifying features.

 

Never go this argument and never will.

[sharkman]

David, I was not anonymous I went out of my way to prove to you that I'm a legitimate client of DR Rahal, this was real effort to legitimize my claim and I'm clearly not trying defame him on behalf of some competition. You just decided to be a stickler for the rules to a level that questions your credibility as a moderator. The internet is full of reviews and it is the accumulation of the reviews that makes you decide which service to use, and people should have the permission to decide how much content they would want to make accessible online. I made a clear decision that I don't want image of myself online, this is not so unreasonable. To start making every reviewer prove that he is legitimate is crazy and even if I provide images I have no idea how to prove that Dr Rahal wanted to charge me more for the extra follicles.

[sharkman]

oh yeh win 200, prove it :-), I'm just kidding but this is what the moderator expect from me.

I guess we simply had a different experience. Maybe he learned his lessons since he was working with me.

 

I just want to forcefully rebut this based on my own, recent experience. I scheduled and paid for a 2,000 graft procedure. My final graft count, though, was 2,123, and the graft differential was complimentary. All good clinics SHOULD count grafts--and not only the grafts, but the hairs per graft--and provide the patient with a tally of how many grafts and hairs were implanted. Accusing a clinic of simply throwing away grafts because the count was above and beyond what the patient paid for is one of the most serious accusations that could be leveled against a clinic. Dr. Rahal is not perfect, and he has his disappointed patients like anyone else, but it is unimaginable that a surgeon of his caliber and reputation would do something like that. He certainly did not throw away my extra grafts.

[win200]

It always amazes me when people feel it's their constitutional right to make anonymous accusations and publicly defame another individual (doctor or otherwise) under the protection of "free speech".

 

The fact is that slander (making a false spoken statement damaging to a person's reputation) and libel (a published false statement that is damaging to a person's reputation) are not protected speech and can open one up to a lawsuit.

 

7 Things the First Amendment Doesn’t Protect

 

We offer this community as a means to share true and documented experiences, both good and bad and those reviews should be documented photographically. This is especially true when the skill or ethics of a highly reputable surgeon are being called into question.

 

No one has EVER been asked to publicly identify themselves in order to discuss their procedure on this forum. So how is it unreasonable to require that a critical post be accompanied by photos when it's easy to mask or crop out identifying features.

 

Never go this argument and never will.

 

And it amazes me even more that some people don't understand the basic fact that the Constitution only restricts GOVERNMENT suppression of speech. It has absolutely no bearing on speech regulation between private individuals--such as an online forum. The moderators can boot your ass for saying "Hi" if they want to. A restaurant can remove you for raising your voice. None of this has any relation to the Constitution. Didn't you people take high school civics?!

[win200]

And David, obviously my post above was directed at Sharkman, not you.

[sharkman]

I think that most people do understand that fact, and can appreciate that this is a private forum that can suppress speech as much as they want. There is really no legal repercussion, just like there is no legal repercussion for Dr Rahal failing to deliver results or proper estimation for me. Saying that there are consequences where it comes credibility. This Network claims to take a neutral stand on the topic, By suppressing speech they are failing to deliver on their promise or at least our assumption of that promise. Saying that, I have been posting quiet a few messages here and unlike my first post that has been removed they seemed to tolerate the rest of the discussion. So thank you for that. It is becoming an interesting debate :-) and I'm no longer as frustrated, lol

 

 

 

And it amazes me even more that some people don't understand the basic fact that the Constitution only restricts GOVERNMENT suppression of speech. It has absolutely no bearing on speech regulation between private individuals--such as an online forum. The moderators can boot your ass for saying "Hi" if they want to. A restaurant can remove you for raising your voice. None of this has any relation to the Constitution. Didn't you people take high school civics?!

[sharkman]

I stand corrected. I think one of my post was remove