3025 graft fue Hasson & Wong (Dr. Wong)

[FollicleFella]

What’s up everyone. This forum was super helpful to me in researching ht/surgeons and so I wanted to pay it forward by offering up my own healing process/results after completing a 3025 graft procedure with Dr. Wong today.

I had considered several surgeons and ultimately went with H&W because I was very fortunate to get a spot on their cancellation list relatively quickly (like 3 weeks from my initial contact, super lucky timing, as the next option was like mid 2023). I’d been considering Konior (really nice guy who I did an online consult with) and others in that echelon/price range but I wanted to get this done and put it behind me rather than wait another 12-18 months after researching/saving for about that same amount of time. H&W was also *slightly* cheaper than Konior for 500ish more grafts with equally impressive results to the other top surgeons and a long history behind them so I pulled the trigger.

Since I’m at day 0 I can’t offer anything in terms of results other than some before pictures and my post surgery pics from today. That said I have nothing but good things to say about H&W from my experience up to this point. They were incredibly helpful/patient with scheduling issues I had (Doug is the man, and Christina in the office is mighty on top of it), assisting with travel/accommodation plans, always available for questions, and the facility is highly clean/professional. It’s a tech driven clinic for sure (they do 2-4 surgeries a day I believe, with the doctors doing the hairline stuff/incisions but the rest being techs) but they all struck me as a very cohesive team that’s got a lot of experience.

My total time at the clinic was about 10 hours, with probably 8.5 of that being in surgery broken up by breaks/lunch. Everyone was really nice, attentive to my comfort, and made me feel like I was in good hands. Face down for 4-5 hours of extraction which is the worst/most boring part but hopefully you can sleep a bit. I was surprised at how much it didn’t hurt. The post lunch implementation period of 3-4 hours was much more chill as you get to lay face up, watch netflix, mess around on your phone, etc.

You may notice that my hair loss in the before pictures isn’t very advanced. Particularly with a good comb over cut, hairspray, and the occasional fibers I definitely look like a guy with a decently full head of hair. Thankfully the hair I do have is relatively thick and there’s a decent amount of it, but I’ve been thinning through the pattern area with some slight hairline recession for about 2-3 years noticeably (I’m 31 now). I have a very “client facing” job where appearance does matter and so I wanted to get the procedure done before it became noticeable to anyone besides me and folks who really got in and took a look. I tried Fin for a couple months 2 years ago when I first noticed my initial loss but ditched it due to sides (thankfully went away after a month or so off). Given my progression/lack of medication, I think in the next 1-2 years my hair loss would’ve become pretty readily noticeable, which is what I wanted to avoid.

My hairline design was only slightly lower than were it currently sits and I did not get any temple/crown work done. I’ll potentially do those down the line if it feels necessary but the agenda for this first surgery was to dense pack my existing hair line and top 2/3 where my scalp was peeking through.

Happy to answer any questions and will update this as the weeks/months go on!

[BurnieBurns]

Look like great work and the result will be amazing temporarily.. You are on no preventative treatments now?

Your existing hair will continue to thin and in time the result won't look very good at all. Did you discuss this with Dr Wong?

[FollicleFella]

@BurnieBurns

I’m not on any medication and so you may be correct! Hoping the loss stabilizes at a point where the total result will hold strong for a good long while (if I can get 5-7 years out of this one I’ll be mighty happy). I’m planning on getting multiple procedures in my life knowing that what you say is true.

I did talk with Dr. Wong about this and obviously they recommend medication to anyone looking to secure as much hair as possible but if someone has a bad experience with sides to the point of discontinuation then what can you really say/do. I tried lowering the dosage, staggering intake, etc so I’m amendable to figuring out a way to make it work. The clinic offers a topical fin solution that I’m open to trying a bit further on in the healing process to see if I have a better go with that.

[hockeyman]

Looks great.  Did Dr. Wong provide you with an estimate as to your total donor capacity?

[Buck Naked]

Looks very good so far. I like Dr. Wong's work a lot.

[BurnieBurns]

7 hours ago, FollicleFella said:

@BurnieBurns

I’m not on any medication and so you may be correct! Hoping the loss stabilizes at a point where the total result will hold strong for a good long while (if I can get 5-7 years out of this one I’ll be mighty happy). I’m planning on getting multiple procedures in my life knowing that what you say is true.

I did talk with Dr. Wong about this and obviously they recommend medication to anyone looking to secure as much hair as possible but if someone has a bad experience with sides to the point of discontinuation then what can you really say/do. I tried lowering the dosage, staggering intake, etc so I’m amendable to figuring out a way to make it work. The clinic offers a topical fin solution that I’m open to trying a bit further on in the healing process to see if I have a better go with that.

It's very rare for hair loss (especially diffuse thinning) to halt in your early thirties. It's absolutely worth trying topical. There's also modalities of treatment which won't be as robust but something is better than nothing. Looks like fine work either way. I'm having surgery with Dr Wong in November.

[FollicleFella]

4 hours ago, hockeyman said:

Looks great.  Did Dr. Wong provide you with an estimate as to your total donor capacity?

He did not but I appreciate the reminder to ask him that when I go back in tomorrow! Thanks

[FollicleFella]

7 minutes ago, BurnieBurns said:

It's very rare for hair loss (especially diffuse thinning) to halt in your early thirties. It's absolutely worth trying topical. There's also modalities of treatment which won't be as robust but something is better than nothing. Looks like fine work either way. I'm having surgery with Dr Wong in November.

Yeah I’ll probably try the topical once enough time has lapsed post surgery to attempt it.

What other “less robust” modalities are you referring to?

I’m sure you’ll have a great result/experience there if you’ve never been before. Anecdotally I found out today when I went in for a wash that many of the techs have been with the practice for 10-15+ years.

 

 

[FollicleFella]

1 hour ago, Buck Naked said:

Looks very good so far. I like Dr. Wong's work a lot.

Appreciate it! I was definitely swayed by the longevity of their practice/results.

[hockeyman]

I was wondering about the height of your new hairline. How high is the middle of it from your eyebrows? 

[FollicleFella]

42 minutes ago, hockeyman said:

I was wondering about the height of your new hairline. How high is the middle of it from your eyebrows? 

While I don’t have a ruler on hand maybe this shot will provide some useful frame of reference.

Dr. Wong said my hairline was “perfect” where it was (relative to what I am unsure), and I actually had to nudge a bit for it to be slightly lower than where he’d originally placed it.

Is there some ratio/distance from eyebrow to hairline that’s advantageous?

My guess is that given my age/current lack of any medication, he wanted something that would age appropriately alongside progressing thinning/loss.

Having done 3000 this go around and using the general ballpark figure I’ve heard of 6000 harvestable grafts in the donor area, I’m hoping to have 2x more 1500 graft surgeries in the future for touch ups over the next 20 years.

Any thoughts appreciated!

[hockeyman]

That looks great. Not too high and not too low. You look like you have good temple points too. I was curious about your hairline height because I had a recent in-person consult and the recomendation was a hairline that was 7cm from my eyebrows. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by hockeyman

[BurnieBurns]

8 hours ago, FollicleFella said:

Yeah I’ll probably try the topical once enough time has lapsed post surgery to attempt it.

What other “less robust” modalities are you referring to?

I’m sure you’ll have a great result/experience there if you’ve never been before. Anecdotally I found out today when I went in for a wash that many of the techs have been with the practice for 10-15+ years.

 

 

As least you're aware that multiple further surgeries are down the line. Other treatments would be minoxidil (especially oral), Ketoconazole, PRP (IF it's from a reputable source. There's a lot of plain 'Money-grabs' out there for this treatment.

Apparently Topical Dutasteride is meant to go less systemic than topical fin. Xyon should be releasing a version of that too. There's also Pyrilutamide that can be purchased on the grey market but still has studies to back its safety.

[FollicleFella]

15 hours ago, hockeyman said:

That looks great. Not too high and not too low. You look like you have good temple points too. I was curious about your hairline height because I had a recent in-person consult and the recomendation was a hairline that was 7cm from my eyebrows. 

Appreciate it! Definitely some swelling in the forehead area so when you get yours and if it looks a bit off right away (as in your forehead looks bigger) don’t be alarmed it goes down haha. I do feel lucky at the temples, they haven’t gone much but will probably be the next thing I address along with the crown (hopefully not for many years!).

To answer your earlier question: according to Dr. Wong I had 7000 grafts from my donor area so after this 3025 surgery I should have about 4000 more for future work. Very pleased with that prognosis being medication free at this point and knowing I’ll probably need future surgeries to keep up appearances.

That’s cool your consult was so specific as to get into the cm distance of eyebrow to hairline. I would imagine that number should be different for everyone based on a) facial structure/symmetry b) current hairline to eyebrow distance and c) how you’re building the hairline around the potential of future thinning/loss.

Who was your consult through/what’re you trying to do?

 

 

[FollicleFella]

13 hours ago, BurnieBurns said:

As least you're aware that multiple further surgeries are down the line. Other treatments would be minoxidil (especially oral), Ketoconazole, PRP (IF it's from a reputable source. There's a lot of plain 'Money-grabs' out there for this treatment.

Apparently Topical Dutasteride is meant to go less systemic than topical fin. Xyon should be releasing a version of that too. There's also Pyrilutamide that can be purchased on the grey market but still has studies to back its safety.

Right on I appreciate all this helpful information. Prp is of interest to me for sure since it seems minimally invasive/not a daily ongoing thing, though I haven’t done the proper research into it. Enough though to see some people swear by it while others considered it a waste of time and money so I appreciate your note on good sourcing perhaps being the distinction.

Xyon was the name given to me by Dr. Wong when inquiring about topical fin. Definitely heard of people switching to duta and having a better experience but my fin sides really put me off anti androgens for the time being/as long as possible. That said I know it’s better to use while you’ve still got hair to save versus trying to maintain an already burned down forest as it were. We’ll see if I work up the courage in the next year or so to attempt it again.

Definitely will be starting keto shampooing + dermarolling once enough time has lapsed post surgery. Dr. Wong told me I still have 4000 grafts in my donor area for future use and that’s not counting my extensive supply of beard/body hair ha. Hopefully between all that I can make it it a couple decades until I’m at a point in my life where a) the specific sides I experienced with fin are less personally relevant or b) god willing there’ll be some new tech/meds to ward off the Norwood reaper more efficiently without collateral affect.

Appreciate the intel and great choice with H&W! Really made the whole thing as chill as possible for me. If you’re traveling in from somewhere see what can potentially be done about help from them with flights/accommodation, particularly if you’re stepping into a cancellation by chance.

 

[hockeyman]

1 hour ago, FollicleFella said:

Appreciate it! Definitely some swelling in the forehead area so when you get yours and if it looks a bit off right away (as in your forehead looks bigger) don’t be alarmed it goes down haha. I do feel lucky at the temples, they haven’t gone much but will probably be the next thing I address along with the crown (hopefully not for many years!).

To answer your earlier question: according to Dr. Wong I had 7000 grafts from my donor area so after this 3025 surgery I should have about 4000 more for future work. Very pleased with that prognosis being medication free at this point and knowing I’ll probably need future surgeries to keep up appearances.

That’s cool your consult was so specific as to get into the cm distance of eyebrow to hairline. I would imagine that number should be different for everyone based on a) facial structure/symmetry b) current hairline to eyebrow distance and c) how you’re building the hairline around the potential of future thinning/loss.

Who was your consult through/what’re you trying to do?

 

 

Actually my consult was with Dr. Wong as well. I'm really interested in following your case, as you and I share some similar hair characteristics (ie. density, texture).  One thing that really impresses me about Dr. Wong's work is that he seems to be able to achieve good density while being economical with the # of grafts used. 

[FollicleFella]

 

Day 2! (If surgery date is day 0)

Healing seems to be coming along nicely. Had another wash/check in with Dr. Wong today who said everything’s looking solid. There is some inevitable forehead swelling that should dissipate in the next few days. Thankfully haven’t dealt with any itching or pain that I’ve seen referenced elsewhere. Luckily sleep hasn’t been an issue since I’ve been able to remain side sleeping as I didn’t get any temple work done. According to my review from this AM all the grafts seem to still be intact. Looking forward to the redness going away theoretically in the next 5-10 days. The slight white stuff seen on the transplanted area is residue from an antibiotic cream applied by the clinic.

[Ryan Daniel]

Solid density. You're going to have a brilliant result 

[milito_22]

it looks good! I also had my FUE hair transplant this Monday with Dr. Wong. About 2k grafts. Well, fingers crossed and let's hope for the best

[FollicleFella]

5 hours ago, Ryan Daniel said:

Solid density. You're going to have a brilliant result 

Thanks Ryan!! Feeling really good about it and thankful for this forum and the year+ of lurking it provided for me haha. Hope to update over the next year and inspire some other padawans to take the leap if that’s what’s best for them.

[Legend007]

The work looks good .. nice n dense ..  but u had alot of native hair in ur midscalp n stuff .. I wonder how they were able to cram in all the new hairs.. usually they would wait till the area becomes bald before they transplant …

im pretty sure ur native hair will fall out soon n just be replaced by the new hair … that’s what happened to me.. I still has some hairs in the forelock .. n they survived after the initial surgery to the hairline n with the native hair n new hair made the front looked full.. but one year later I noticed all those native hairs on the hairline died out n I’m just left with the new hair .. that’s the risk of implanting into an area with native hair already there .  It seems to accelerate the death of ur original hair .. since they were already thinning, n the trauma they suffered during the hairtransplant .. n with new hair competing for blood supply… 

 

do u have picture of ur hair originally ? Like how u usually styled it n stuff. 

[FollicleFella]

25 minutes ago, Legend007 said:

The work looks good .. nice n dense ..  but u had alot of native hair in ur midscalp n stuff .. I wonder how they were able to cram in all the new hairs.. usually they would wait till the area becomes bald before they transplant …

im pretty sure ur native hair will fall out soon n just be replaced by the new hair … that’s what happened to me.. I still has some hairs in the forelock .. n they survived after the initial surgery to the hairline n with the native hair n new hair made the front looked full.. but one year later I noticed all those native hairs on the hairline died out n I’m just left with the new hair .. that’s the risk of implanting into an area with native hair already there .  It seems to accelerate the death of ur original hair .. since they were already thinning, n the trauma they suffered during the hairtransplant .. n with new hair competing for blood supply… 

 

do u have picture of ur hair originally ? Like how u usually styled it n stuff. 

Interesting take! Of course I sure hope this surgery doesn’t come at to great a cost to my native hair haha. I think what you’re referring to is shock loss and yeah that’s always a possibility to a varying degree with each case/how a persons body reacts to the trauma of surgery. To your point of transplanted hair accelerating native hair loss…I think that’d be hard to tell for real. In the sense of, after a year especially, what is hair loss due to natural progression versus hair loss due to transplanted hair “stealing blood supply” from native hair? It’s impossible to know what one would look like without surgery and it’s further complicated by the fact that hair cycles are already super long/uneven. I think your point is why a lot of people say it takes like 18 months to really assess where you’re at/what the ultimate affect was.

This^ is how I’d wear my hair presurgery.  As noted, I have a relatively decent amount of it! It’s thick as far as mpb standards go, darker, and my donor area is strong (still got 4000 grafts for potential future surgeries). That said you can see the combover here (any shorter and it’s obvious), that my bangs are thinning out, etc. For example if I were to push my hair back (compare to my pre surgery pics above) in this picture you could see into my mid scalp/as far back as where I had hair transplanted in.

Ultimately your point is largely why I wanted to save up enough to go to a top clinic like H&W so that I could get as much benefit while having a skilled enough surgeon to minimize native interference. If I can maintain the appearance of the picture I posted in this reply 5-7 years from now I’ll be super happy. I wasn’t necessarily going for a brand new look, but rather to buy more time with my existing look as loss inevitably progresses until I need more work to maintain what I feel I need now to be confident. I’m sure that in 18 months my loss would’ve kept progressing to a point I was unhappy with (already was truth be told!) and I didn’t want to wait to find out.

[Legend007]

Yeah ur hair was kinda like how my hair was too before I got a ht with doctor hasson … 2500 just to the hairline … 

So I’m practically a norwood 1… but I’m still worried about losing my hair..

It sure does feel alot less fuller than a few years ago .. n a few years ago I would of never thought I would of had hairloss or go bald .. so u really need to start on some sort of preventive medicine .. if I didn’t I think I be having some bald spots in a  few years ,, 

As for shockloss, in ur case I don’t think it be for u … not with doctor wong doing ur surgery. He’s meticulous n conservative .. he looks out for u long term .. that’s why he wouldn’t lower ur hairline too much .. 

i think u have a great result … keep updating this page please . 

 

 

[FollicleFella]

 

Day 4! Not much to report. Photos directly under bathroom light. My hair is dark enough that in an unlit room the redness seems to be slowly blending in already. Washing daily with baby shampoo per instructions from the clinic. Trying to take it easy by minimizing exertion, going for some easy walks a few times a day, very passive stretching, eating as healthy as possible (minimizing sugar/processed foods), drinking a gallon of water a day, getting 7-8 hours of sleep, and staying stress free having taken a couple weeks off of work.

For what it’s worth I don’t drink alcohol and I’ve stopped using thc and caffeine for this recovery period (at least a month maybe more). In the interest of transparency: I am still using nicotine in the form of vaping but I’m going to try and cut that out before the end of the month. Have cutback significantly. I’ve been doing it for 14 years now and cold turkey is obviously difficult (didn’t actually realize until surgery day this was advised otherwise I would’ve tapered/tried quitting properly beforehand. Stupidity/the rushed nature of filling a relatively last minute slot I suppose).

The face swelling has set in, but fortunately no pain, tightness, or itchiness to speak of particularly. Really looking forward to this redness dissipating hopefully by the end of the month but it’ll be whatever it’ll be! I’m off work for the next 2-3 weeks and if that could happen before then that’d be grand. Seems time and patience are the best medicines to this effect and there looks to be a wide range of self reported redness (2 weeks to 6+ months) based on skin color, individual healing rate, etc. Any tips towards this end appreciated!

Happy growing and hope it’s a great weekend.

[FollicleFella]

On 10/6/2022 at 7:31 PM, Legend007 said:

Yeah ur hair was kinda like how my hair was too before I got a ht with doctor hasson … 2500 just to the hairline … 

So I’m practically a norwood 1… but I’m still worried about losing my hair..

It sure does feel alot less fuller than a few years ago .. n a few years ago I would of never thought I would of had hairloss or go bald .. so u really need to start on some sort of preventive medicine .. if I didn’t I think I be having some bald spots in a  few years ,, 

As for shockloss, in ur case I don’t think it be for u … not with doctor wong doing ur surgery. He’s meticulous n conservative .. he looks out for u long term .. that’s why he wouldn’t lower ur hairline too much .. 

i think u have a great result … keep updating this page please . 

 

 

Appreciate the vote of confidence my friend!

And yes hairloss can be super emotional. I think it’s even less “I won’t look as good” and more the unavoidable confrontation with one’s mortality and that this body we all largely take for granted won’t last forever, and certainly not in the youthful form you spend the initial 30ish years growing accustomed to.

Whenever I get the “oh why me” feels I try to remember that there’s always someone who would do anything to be in your circumstances generally. You’re not in a wheelchair/movement impeded, you’ve got your mental faculties, and you’ve got options. If one has enough money/wherewithal for a HT then one is already a pretty privileged person in a world where most folks live on less than $5 a day or whatever. It’s a bit of a cliche but I think there’s truth/value in the notion that just living long enough to experience the problem of hairloss is something to be grateful for (certainly have loved ones in my life that didn’t get the chance unfortunately). Blessed>stressed.

We goin’ make it! If you’re basically N1 after 1 surgery at sub 3000 grafts then your loss probably isn’t noticeable to others. Sounds like you can tolerate fin and you’ve got a good donor area that’ll be solid for another couple procedures down the line if you feel you need them. Who knows what medicine, tech, crazy gene editing they’ll come out with over the next 20 years. People (deservedly) rag on the glacial pace with which mpb gets researched and addressed but by that same token hair transplants from 20 years ago are night/day with what they can do now. I think the future is bright.