Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 23, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 Hi all, just seeing what you folks think in terms of graft number needed. I'm fine with being conservative on the hairline as long as I get the crown covered. 3rd pic is fresh out of the shower and hair pushed down. I figure I will need a 2nd HT at some point to cover the area between the crown and hairline, but for now it's fine. Been on Min for 1 month so hoping that will help too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted June 23, 2022 Administrators Share Posted June 23, 2022 The crown needs about 2,500. Your hairline depends on whether you want to reinforce it with more density or lower it. If you want to lower it, you will need at least another 2,000 grafts. 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Buck Naked Posted June 23, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) To fill in the sides and front and to advance the hairline a little is about 2,500 grafts. I think the crown needs about 2,000 grafts. Have you had any consults yet? If so, what did the surgeons say? Are you on oral minoxidil? How about finasteride? Edited June 23, 2022 by Buck Naked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 23, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 Awesome thanks for the answer. When you say "reinforce" versus "lower", reinforce would basically mean filling in the recessed areas in the corners? My goal is to go as long as possible before needing a 2nd HT so I think reinforcing would better in this regard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 23, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Buck Naked said: To fill in the sides and front and to advance the hairline a little is about 2,500 grafts. I think the crown needs about 2,000 grafts. Have you had any consults yet? If so, what did the surgeons say? Are you on oral minoxidil? How about finasteride? I've had a few consults. The only one I remember is with Nader and was told 2500-3000 for the hairline and 1000-1500 for the crown. But I'm worried this wont give me the coverage I want on the crown. I am on liquid min for 1 month and not on fin at all. Is the oral min supposed to work better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member Buck Naked Posted June 23, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 25 minutes ago, GoliGoliGoli said: I've had a few consults. The only one I remember is with Nader and was told 2500-3000 for the hairline and 1000-1500 for the crown. But I'm worried this wont give me the coverage I want on the crown. I am on liquid min for 1 month and not on fin at all. Is the oral min supposed to work better? I think in the hands of a great surgeon about 1,500 for the crown can be down. The 2,500-3,000 grafts for the front makes sense. Yeah, oral minoxidil is better. Have you tried finasteride? If not, get on finasteride ASAP. Edited June 23, 2022 by Buck Naked 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 23, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) Since I'm capped at 4000 grafts, I might go for 2000 on crown and 2000 on hairline. Does this seem like a decent enough plan? @Melvin- Moderator @Buck Naked I should say, despite how the picture looks I don't think I need to lower my hairline very much. My forehead looks huge in original picture, but isn't so bad with how I wear my hair. Here is another pic of me with it styled to cover it up. Edited June 23, 2022 by GoliGoliGoli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 23, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Buck Naked said: I think the hands of a great surgeon about 1,500 for the crown can be down. The 2,500-3,000 grafts for the front makes sense. Yeah, oral minoxidil is better. Have you tried finasteride? If not, get on finasteride ASAP. TBH I'm really not interested in trying oral or topical fin. I don't like taking any medicines really if I can avoid it, and generally don't trust the pharmaceutical industry (Despite working in it). I'm also ok with getting a 2nd HT if/when needed and would rather do that than get on fin Edited June 23, 2022 by GoliGoliGoli 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member civic Posted June 23, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 Are you going for FUE or FUT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 23, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, civic said: Are you going for FUE or FUT? FUE. Curious as to why this would impact graft # needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member civic Posted June 23, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, GoliGoliGoli said: FUE. Curious as to why this would impact graft # needed? You mentioned cap of 4k grafts, usualy when donor is limited in some way, pro FUT surgens would recomend strip to not deplete donor. Was your donor examined in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 23, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 4 minutes ago, civic said: You mentioned cap of 4k grafts, usualy when donor is limited in some way, pro FUT surgens would recomend strip to not deplete donor. Was your donor examined in person? If anything I think I have a pretty strong donor, but I have never had it examined in person. But I have always had very thick hair, and my hair in the donor area feels super thick to me just like it did when I was 16. Regardless, I thought 4k was the max grafts for any procedure just because you don't want swelling to be too brutal and follices to be competing for blood supply? I don't think the 4k max is lifetime, just per surgery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member civic Posted June 23, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 1 minute ago, GoliGoliGoli said: If anything I think I have a pretty strong donor, but I have never had it examined in person. But I have always had very thick hair, and my hair in the donor area feels super thick to me just like it did when I was 16. Regardless, I thought 4k was the max grafts for any procedure just because you don't want swelling to be too brutal and follices to be competing for blood supply? I don't think the 4k max is lifetime, just per surgery FUE can be split over 2 days, so 4-5k grafts over 2 days is ok with the right surgen. I don't think you need that many. See recent posts of recomended surgens , Dr Taleb posted update of patient he did around 1.7 k grafts & it looks fantastic, there are very good surgens here who work with less grafts & produce amazing results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member Gramatik Posted June 23, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 2.5 k grafts for front and 2k grafts for crown. Total 4500+ grafts you need for both Parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 23, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 23, 2022 3 minutes ago, Gramatik said: 2.5 k grafts for front and 2k grafts for crown. Total 4500+ grafts you need for both Parts. Do you think I could get away with 2k front and 2k crown? Like I said I'm limited to 4k grafts per procedure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rahal Hair Transplant Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 Goligoligoli, The crown is often referred to as the black hole for grafts because it often takes a larger number of follicular units to re-create any real coverage and density. That said, while re-creating density in the crown takes very large number, adding just enough for coverage can go along way. That said, I do agree that somewhere between 2000 and 3000 grafts in the crown would go along way. The actual number would depend on number of factors including hair shaft diameter, the actual size of the area to cover and hair color to scalp color contrast ratio. As far as the hairline is concerned, I’d suggest probably around 2500 grafts to re-create a conservative looking hairline, refine the temple points and fill in some of the thinning areas in the frontal region. Now, keep in mind that this is just my opinion and not the doctors actual estimate. I’m just basing these numbers strictly on my opinion and experience and the photos you presented. Let me know if you need any additional assistance. Best wishes, Rahal Hair Transplant 2 Rahal Hair Transplant Institute - Answers to questions, posts or any comments from this account should not be taken or construed as medical advice. All comments are the personal opinions of the poster. Dr. Rahal is a member of the Coalition of Independent of Hair Restoration Physicians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 24, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 24, 2022 One final question: Where do you guys think I fall on the Norwood scale? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE TRUTH Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) Talking realistically your crown needs 4000 grafts to look decently full. The crown is a black hole and it always requires a lot more grafts than you think. But of course you don't want to trynna do 4000 grafts in one go. That would be a huge mistake.... Get on medication first. Take your time. Do your due diligence. Research. I always recommend people to do a small test surgery i order to evaluate the survival rate and avoid big sessions and thus potentially wasting forever your limited grafts... You are somewhere between Norwood 3V and Norwood 4. But I don't like the Norwood scale. There are dozens of balding patterns that are not included in the Norwood scale. For example diffuse thinners... Also the Norwood scale does not really measure your degree of baldness. It only shows SOME of the male balding patterns. That is the key thing to understand. For example you can be miniaturizing in a Norwood 6 pattern but still have a lot of hair. Actually an early Norwood 6 diffuse thinner will often have a lot more hair in appareance than someone who is Norwood 4 with a slick bald spot and no hairline but no miniaturization beyond the whorl unlike the Norwood 6 diffuse. You know what I'm sayin brah ? Also there are many different types of Norwood 5s or Norwood 4s for example. You can be an early Norwood 5 diffuse thinner with still 90% of your hair except all your hairs on top are beginning to thin, you can be a Norwood 5 with completely gone hairline but just slight thinning in the crown, you could be a slick bald Norwood 5 with huge bald spot etc... The Norwood scale doesn't mean much. Edited June 24, 2022 by Jason Blaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 24, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 24, 2022 17 minutes ago, Jason Blaha said: Talking realistically your crown needs 4000 grafts to look decently full. The crown is a black hole and it always requires a lot more grafts than you think. But of course you don't want to trynna do 4000 grafts in one go. That would be a huge mistake.... Get on medication first. Take your time. Do your due diligence. Research. Wow tbh that is a bit discouraging to here 4000 to look "decently" full. Makes me re-consider getting a HT at all. I'm on minoxodil for about a month, but no real interest in starting on fin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member GoliGoliGoli Posted June 24, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 24, 2022 TBH I really don't think I need 4000 on the crown for a "Decently" full look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted June 24, 2022 Administrators Share Posted June 24, 2022 If your crown expands, 4000 is definitely necessary. However, your current hair loss, 2,500 should suffice. The key is preventing further hair loss. I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Melvin- Admin Posted June 24, 2022 Administrators Share Posted June 24, 2022 Per our graft calculator. Keep in mind this 40 grafts per cm2, which is reasonable density, but will not be ultra full, as a hairline of 60 grafts per cm2 would be. 1 I’m a paid admin for Hair Transplant Network. I do not receive any compensation from any clinic. My comments are not medical advice. Check out my final hair transplant and topical dutasteride journey: View my thread Topical dutasteride journey Melvin- Managing Publisher and Forum Moderator for the Hair Transplant Network, the Coalition Hair Loss Learning Center, and the Hair Loss Q&A Blog. Follow our Social Media: Facebook, Instagram, Linkedin, and YouTube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eugenix Hair Sciences Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 You are 3V on the Norwood Hamilton Scale of baldness. For the frontal zone you shall require around 2000 to 2500 grafts depending on the hairline you choose. For the crown, you shall require 1500 to 1700 grafts with adequate density. You shall also require finasteride. This medication can help prolong baldness as long as you take it. You can take finasteride for a couple of months and then observe it's effects in your case and then accordingly decide whether to take it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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