Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 17, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 (edited) Got an answer from dr Ball Lasering off the hairline and doing SMP would probably get me results fast without any surgery, but psychologically I can not accept having a moth eaten donor. The fact that the FUE scars will appear when I dont shave it for just 1 day is frustrating Edited June 17, 2022 by SimpleLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldReaper Posted June 17, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 4 minutes ago, SimpleLife said: Got an answer from dr Ball Lasering off the hairline and doing SMP would probably get me results fast without any surgery, but psychologically I can not accept having a moth eaten donor. The fact that the FUE scars will appear when I dont shave it for just 1 day is frustrating I like this doctor's honesty, lasering the grafts in the recipient to smooth them down so they dont stand out when you shave sounds like a good option, about electrolysis permanent removal I would be cautious of scaring and would consult a lot of electrologists with experience on transplanted hair removal. Well about shaving every day, you would have to do that anyway if you were bald and wanted to maintain the bald look, also its like 5 minutes, you can do this either before you sleep or right after you wake up. Also even if the scars appear after 1 day i doubt they would be that noticeable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 17, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, JimKan1 said: I like this doctor's honesty, lasering the grafts in the recipient to smooth them down so they dont stand out when you shave sounds like a good option, about electrolysis permanent removal I would be cautious of scaring and would consult a lot of electrologists with experience on transplanted hair removal. Yeh, he gives a good impression Electrolysis is not an option is my conclusion. Its too strong and takes a long time to heal. I can't wait 2-3 years for it to heal and do SMP Lasering them off requires patience & time, but I have done it on other parts of the body with no scarring. It might leave the skin sensitive tho.. With FUE removal doctors can not promise that there wont be scarring, because it depends more on the person itself and the procedure they had before rather than the skill of the doctor. Its still my prefferable choice tho 3 minutes ago, JimKan1 said: Well about shaving every day, you would have to do that anyway if you were bald and wanted to maintain the bald look, also its like 5 minutes, you can do this either before you sleep or right after you wake up. Also even if the scars appear after 1 day i doubt they would be that noticeable True, but its pure mental. Trying to hide a moth eaten donor is much different than doing it on top. This is what I told dr Barghouthi when he asked if I considered doing just the SMP - ''Eventually once I get older I like to laser off the SMP and rock the bald look like my grandpa. However if I laser it off without doing the repair transplant I will be left with an implanted hairline, a bald crown and an overharvested donor.' - ''If I fill up the donor with enough grafts I won't be paranoid about the SMP fading that much. I don't want to wake up everyday with the question ''did my SMP fade & are my fue scars somewhat visible?'' So filling up the donor with real hair and SMP as complementary made sense to me from a mental aspect.'' Also I cant just put on a hat when there is sun outside or when I didnt shave my head. I would have to put sunscreen on the sides of my head all the time, I will probably still need SMP even when the donor is filled up with grafts, but it wouldnt bother me that much when it fades.. Also ''Putting on sunscreen is easy, youre exaggerating'' one could say, but I had to use it for a long time on acne scars and its a headache. I will be dependant on a shaver & a hat already, so I'm trying to avoid being dependant on sunscreen as well.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regular Member davidn Posted June 17, 2022 Regular Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 I think the best option (I am not a doctor, just a layperson) is to go with a multi-facet approach in your case. Place beard into the donor to break the pattern, extract some grafts which can be reused and place it into the donor as well, search for some amazing laser studio, laser off the rest, search for excellent smp, do smp all over and then go buy your mum a house. But that is just my opinion. You found excellent repair docs already. I think Bisanga is one of the most ethical in the business. He will guide you right I hope. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 17, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, davidn said: I think the best option (I am not a doctor, just a layperson) is to go with a multi-facet approach in your case. Place beard into the donor to break the pattern, extract some grafts which can be reused and place it into the donor as well, search for some amazing laser studio, laser off the rest, search for excellent smp, do smp all over and then go buy your mum a house. But that is just my opinion. You found excellent repair docs already. I think Bisanga is one of the most ethical in the business. He will guide you right I hope. Yepp that makes sense, appreciate you input man. Really curious what dr Bisanga & dr Mwamba have to say. I'm counting the days.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 18, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 18, 2022 Dr Keser: "Unforutnately Dr Keser is not able to offer you a surgery to fulfill your expectations. When the transplanted hair extracted from the recipient area (your hairline) they will leave FUE scarrting little dots behind." 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mustang Posted June 18, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 18, 2022 That's not true, He just doesn't want to do it. Go to Mwamba man, what did he tell you? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldReaper Posted June 18, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 18, 2022 4 hours ago, SimpleLife said: Dr Keser: "Unforutnately Dr Keser is not able to offer you a surgery to fulfill your expectations. When the transplanted hair extracted from the recipient area (your hairline) they will leave FUE scarrting little dots behind." Arent you going to SMP? that will cover the dots right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 18, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 18, 2022 3 hours ago, mustang said: That's not true, He just doesn't want to do it. Go to Mwamba man, what did he tell you? Yeh I know, have seen cases with 0 scarring & will meet dr Mwamba at the end of the month I'm just sharing everything in this journey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 18, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, JimKan1 said: Arent you going to SMP? that will cover the dots right? Yes but there is a big difference in SMP done on normal skin & white scar tissue. And eventually I like to laser off the SMP, I'm not going for a touchup session at 80yrs old🤣 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldReaper Posted June 18, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, SimpleLife said: Yes but there is a big difference in SMP done on normal skin & white scar tissue. And eventually I like to laser off the SMP, I'm not going for a touchup session at 80yrs old🤣 Not all the tissue will be white scar, only where the removal is, you could probbaly SMP around but only a specialist can clarify this anyway Well when you will be 80 idk if you will care about your hair Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 18, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 18, 2022 1 hour ago, JimKan1 said: Not all the tissue will be white scar, only where the removal is, you could probbaly SMP around but only a specialist can clarify this anyway Well when you will be 80 idk if you will care about your hair This is a common myth people fall for, including myself before I had the HT No matter the age, you'll care about hair/looks. You dont want to be the ''grandad with a failed HT'', because that is unfortunately how one will be labeled subconsciously, even by their kids/grandkids. If its a scar like Joe Rogan has its not a problem imo, but +1000 white dots on top is just odd 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 19, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 19, 2022 (edited) I'm considering dr Ahmad in the Netherlands as well. He has built an excellent reputation & have no doubt about his skill, the lack of repair cases would be my only concern tho. All Turkish & USA surgeons are off the table. Going there multiple times is simply not realistic. The only reason to go there would be in case a surgeon guarantees perfect results and has the trackrecord to back it up. I'm still considering Jordan & India, because of less border restrictions, closer to home and lower cost of living Edited June 19, 2022 by SimpleLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 20, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) So I've made a list of all the pros and cons of all the solutions for my case (let me know if you have any others): 1. Do nothing Pros: I can wait and see if verteporfin really works Cons: I dont have any responsibilities atm thanks to my parents, but in the future I probably will. Need to take care of them as they get older, kids, wife etc. I cant just not-pay for basic things, because I need a repair transplant🤣 Low self esteem, the hairs on my head are so thin, the ones on my butt look better. Moodswings. When I have my hat on I feel good, when I take it off I feel bad. Same thing in the shower, seeing 100s of hairs - feel bad, do some productive stuff - feel good etc. I want to laser off some bodyhair, but I cant cuz I might need them for a BHT 2. Only SMP (without a repair transplant) Pros: No surgery Back to normal life and no need to wait a couple years Cons: Because dark multi-grafts are implanted in the recipient, the SMP artist would have to go dark with big dots in order to blend it in. With SMP, less=more and a shaved hairline is usually soft and a little broken. Smp doesnt look that good when the contrast of skin to hair colour is big. I have dark hair with pale skin which is the worst combo for this. Regular smp needs touchups after 2-5 years, but with smp on fue scars (this is just an assumption), I would need even more touchups. When I visiualize myself doing a touchup every year, it sounds like a major pain in the ass I havent seen a single case with HEALED smp on fue scars. What I read often is that is fades quickly The goal with any hairloss solution is to eventually not worry about it & move on with life. But when the fue scars are only covered with SMP, I will be paranoid about them fading one day, exposing moth eaten dots. Risk of cancer (probably only the case when the wrong ink is used, but I cant say this with 100% certainty since I'm not a scientist). Most smp artists are not transparent about the ink they use, they just say that it organic. There was a member on this forum named Lorenzo which had cancer 3 months after SMP and I tend to believe him. Black ink was found in this lymph node. Anxiety of not being able to shave. Imagine you end up in jail/hospital, but it doesnt even have to be something extreme, just 1 week without shaving and it will look ridiculous. Anxiety of being in the sun and the dependancy on sunscreen. During the last couple years I stayed a lot at home, so going outside in the sun is one of the small things in life that I like doing (according to a SMP artist on youtube you can only get 2 MINUTES of sun max) & the last thing I want to do is layer some sunscreen on the side of my head SMP spreading out, not holding on (I've heard this one many times) or turning blue. Read, ''extremely unlikely'', so its 100% still possible (doctors on realself also confirm this) A normal person with SMP can simply put on a hat when he doesnt feel like shaving that day & without fixing the donor first it becomes an obligation to do it everday Eventually once I get older I like to laser off the SMP and rock the bald look. However if I laser it off without doing a repair transplant I will be left with an implanted hairline, a bald crown and an overharvested donor. 3. Reversing the HT and SMP afterwards (with additional bodyhair if necessary) Pros: If I fill up the donor with enough grafts I won't be paranoid about the SMP fading that much. I don't want to wake up everyday with the question ''did my SMP fade & are my fue scars somewhat visible?'' So filling up the donor with real hair and SMP as complementary makes sense to me from a mental aspect. Cons Some of the cons of #2 Need to decide whether its worth it to exchange one scar of the other Low survival rate of grafts placed into the donor Scarring in the recipient Going to take a lot of time. Taking into account the waiting list, 4-5 operations, the healing process and the actual SMP procedure = ~4 years Notes: Do a test with a small amount of grafts 4. Implant more hairs on top and keep the sides long Pros: Low maintenance Cons: Compared to the full head of hair which I had just 4 years ago, I will never be satisfied with the patchy & tin hairs I still lose a lot of hair and with the hair miniaturization it will be a matter of time for it to look bad which means more transplants etc. Need to keep on using finasteride, minoxidil etc, which I dont want. I'm tired of dealing with any type of medication Edited June 27, 2022 by SimpleLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 20, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2022 Combining FUE with SMP in the hairline SMP combined with native hair looks good, but not with implanted hairs (razor shaved transplanted hairs in the recipient just looks off). With a hairtransplant you have to keep it at 1 guard and above or it will look bad with or without the SMP Implanted hairs look thick when shaved down so in order to blend it with the SMP, the practitioner would have to use big black dots - Hairlines should be soft & broken This is the best result that I have seen, but this one is an outlier. The majority dont look like this 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldReaper Posted June 20, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2022 I think the transplant will make it look more natural to be honest, also think of a combination between 2 and 3, remove only the most pluggy ones and have SMP, also put some BHT to the most problematic donor area Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 20, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2022 (edited) Questions I will ask during my consultation I lasered my bodyhair once, are they still useable? Using shoulderhair possible? Is my skin in good condition for SMP? How many sessions would it require and how much time inbetween? Cost? I have a very dense horseshoe pattern - is it possible to weaken it so the SMP blends in easier? I lose hairs on the sides as well since I got the transplant (permanent shockloss probably), will it improve once hairs are implanted due to blood circulation? Once hairs are implanted back in the donor will there be a grey shade? Or will it be a black dot on a white scar? Edited June 20, 2022 by SimpleLife Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 20, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, JimKan1 said: I think the transplant will make it look more natural to be honest, also think of a combination between 2 and 3, remove only the most pluggy ones and have SMP, also put some BHT to the most problematic donor area Idk man, SMP without any fronthair looks good to me, but I havent seen one in real life so cant say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 20, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2022 Got a price quote from SMP USA $4700 for 3 sessions ''We are able to achieve 85-90% improvement in the visibility of the scar'', so its probably 75% Really hope that 3000 grafts placed into the donor will be enough, so SMP becomes a cherry on the cake and not the main coverage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member BaldReaper Posted June 20, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, SimpleLife said: Got a price quote from SMP USA $4700 for 3 sessions ''We are able to achieve 85-90% improvement in the visibility of the scar'', so its probably 75% Really hope that 3000 grafts placed into the donor will be enough, so SMP becomes a cherry on the cake and not the main coverage thats quite a lot, you could find good solutions in Europe too and much more affordable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 20, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, JimKan1 said: thats quite a lot, you could find good solutions in Europe too and much more affordable Yepp, but they are one of the best so I wanted a quote to see how it compares to the ones here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 21, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 21, 2022 Guys I need som advice. I didnt shave my chest, beard and shoulderhair for the last couple weeks so the doctors can asses it properly whether theyre suitable for a BHT, but it starts to annoy me. 6 more days for the consulation. Should I just take good pictures and shave it off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member mafpe Posted June 21, 2022 Senior Member Share Posted June 21, 2022 hold it off for another week, i say. i was gonna agree and just say to trim and leave it long enough for analysis, but if it's only 6 days left, just leave it for a peace of mind. unless your body hair is like 6cm or longer, in which the doctor will be able to asses without needing that much length, i'd say keep it on. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 27, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 27, 2022 Had my consultation with dr Bisanga and he agrees that there is no other option than to remove the grafts in the hairline. It would take ~4 operations depending on the process with 8 month intervals 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Senior Member SimpleLife Posted June 28, 2022 Author Senior Member Share Posted June 28, 2022 Planned a consultation with dr Ahmad for next week. Had an email exchange with him and everything clicked so far After that I'll make a decision on what I will do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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