My Plan, situation, and current struggles - thoughts appreciated

[Hairtroubles]

Hey,

I have been lurking around here for a while.  Obviously, like you all, my hair loss is seriously affecting me.  I feel like over the last 6 months I have lost more hair than ever in my life.  The rate of my hair loss has drastically sped up.  I think I noticed significant hair loss in 2017 (I was a Norwood 1.5 then).  Now in 2022 today I am a Norwood 3.5/4 I would say.  My crown is showing more and I am definitely receeding at the top of my head in the corners.  I am a diffuse thinner, I cannot touch my hair without pieces falling out.  I run my hands through my hair and 5-10 pieces fall out, in the shower today 28 hairs fell out in the space of 3 minutes in the hair catcher. Is this normal?

I tried Fin and it gave me side effects (remember I didn't even know about side effects and was at work and had a massive anxiety attack).

I tried Minoxidil liquid, one and a half months in I had heart palpitations in the middle of the night which were so severe I got 0 hours sleep that night.  Stopped taking it immediately from that day.  I admit I am somewhat an anxious person but may be placebo, however, Finasteride definitely had an effect on me and I have been too scared to try it since that day and researched it more.

I have been trying different solutions.  

As of last month, I found a solution called Zix (Zinc in topical) and Microneedling with Ostrigrow (look it up).  

I do not know what to do anymore, I can't do Fin, I wanted to do Min but people said its useless as its not a life solution anyways and causes me heart palpitations.

Is it worth me waiting until I lose most of my hair and the hairloss stabilises and I do a HT - then I see all reddit comments and posts saying without Fin it's stupid to do one.  I genuinely believe this hair loss has caused me a depression. I do not want to be around people or close family, every day I look at it, measure it, and realise I can't do anything and all solutions have an effect on me.

What should my plan be, genuinely?  See picture below of my recent status.

[asterix0]

So, in about 5 years you went forward about 3 Norwoods. I can't say for certain, but considering that pace, you can assume you will be slick bald within the next 10 years.

That is if you don't take finasteride. So, getting a massive anxiety attack from one finasteride pill strongly seems like placebo to me. I don't want to comment on anyone's tolerance to side effects, but I had the same reaction, and threw my first batch of finasteride pills in the garbage, coming to the same conclusion as you.

I then thought about it a little bit, and the thought of being slick bald terrified me more than the prospects of side effects from fin. So, I got back on it and just stopped thinking about side effects...and 6 years later, they never arrived.

So, without finasteride, you can spend a lot of money to fill in your crown, and midscalp, only to probably get to back to where you started within a year or two. 

If you are easily prone to anxiety that is a separate issue, but ultimately the you can observe for yourself that if you lose everything on top, and presently transplant the gaps, at best you will be back to where you started with almost 2 years and close to 15 thousand dollars of time and energy spent for transplants for the number of grafts you presently need, and the waiting time to attend the right clinic.

Is this worth it for you?

Edited April 26, 2022 by asterix0

[asterix0]

The key point is even with finasteride and minoxidil, you will probably continue to lose your frontal third. But this rate will be dramatically slowed. Then, for your second procedure to address that, it can be much further down the line, and you can enjoy many more years with hair than otherwise. 

Waiting to be slick bald to get a procedure is ideal but...the only problem is you have to be slick bald during this time. Not a look many of us want, hence us being here.

[Rahal Hair Transplant]

Hairtroubles,

At the end of the day, you’re going to have to decide what’s more important. Also, I agree with what another poster above about your experience with finasteride and your anxiety attack. It’s possible that it was just a fluke and / or completely unrelated. Finasteride doesn’t typically create or cause anxiety attacks.

Also, it’s said that side effects typically go away with continued use of finasteride in most men.  You could also consider trying Rogaine foam instead of a liquid to see if that works without creating heart palpitations.

If side effects persist with continuing to use either of these medications or you decide not to, you have to come to the conclusion that hair loss will continue until you’ve reached full genetic capacity.  That might not mean a completely bald head, it really depends on your genetics.

That said, you’ve already expressed that your hair loss has increased so you’re likely going to lose a good bit more hair.

Have you consulted with any surgeons yet?  There are many people who undergo hair transplant surgery without taking medication but it’s important to establish realistic expectations as to what can be accomplished. If you don’t take medication, you will likely need several hair transplant procedures and will only be able to accomplish so much before you run out of donor hair. So it’s important to plan strategically and wisely.

Even with hair loss medication, there’s no guarantee however, they may very likely slow down or even stop the progression of male pattern baldness. This may improve your chances to obtain a fuller, thicker head of hair however, as you have already stated, you run the risk of experiencing side effects possibly as long as you continue taking the medication if they don’t go away.

At the end of the day, each choice will have consequences and rewards.  You have to determine which consequences and rewards suit your best and which ones will improve your life overall.

I hope this helps.

Rahal Hair Transplant 

[Hairtroubles]

Thanks for the replies, 
I just do not know what to do at this point any more. I have consulted other hair transplant surgeons, Dr. Bicer, being the main one.  The one that I am going to probably do a surgery with, she is saying I need to wait for my hair loss to stabilise then we can proceed with the surgery - what do you think?  Therefore, I am waiting maybe 2 years time until I am 32?  That seems to be a good age to get a hair transplant?

 

@asterix0 - am I really that doomed if I do not take Fin or Min - people have gotten hair transplants without Fin or min - surely?

[Eugenix Hair Sciences]

On 4/26/2022 at 6:32 PM, Hairtroubles said:

Hey,

I have been lurking around here for a while.  Obviously, like you all, my hair loss is seriously affecting me.  I feel like over the last 6 months I have lost more hair than ever in my life.  The rate of my hair loss has drastically sped up.  I think I noticed significant hair loss in 2017 (I was a Norwood 1.5 then).  Now in 2022 today I am a Norwood 3.5/4 I would say.  My crown is showing more and I am definitely receeding at the top of my head in the corners.  I am a diffuse thinner, I cannot touch my hair without pieces falling out.  I run my hands through my hair and 5-10 pieces fall out, in the shower today 28 hairs fell out in the space of 3 minutes in the hair catcher. Is this normal?

I tried Fin and it gave me side effects (remember I didn't even know about side effects and was at work and had a massive anxiety attack).

I tried Minoxidil liquid, one and a half months in I had heart palpitations in the middle of the night which were so severe I got 0 hours sleep that night.  Stopped taking it immediately from that day.  I admit I am somewhat an anxious person but may be placebo, however, Finasteride definitely had an effect on me and I have been too scared to try it since that day and researched it more.

I have been trying different solutions.  

As of last month, I found a solution called Zix (Zinc in topical) and Microneedling with Ostrigrow (look it up).  

I do not know what to do anymore, I can't do Fin, I wanted to do Min but people said its useless as its not a life solution anyways and causes me heart palpitations.

Is it worth me waiting until I lose most of my hair and the hairloss stabilises and I do a HT - then I see all reddit comments and posts saying without Fin it's stupid to do one.  I genuinely believe this hair loss has caused me a depression. I do not want to be around people or close family, every day I look at it, measure it, and realise I can't do anything and all solutions have an effect on me.

What should my plan be, genuinely?  See picture below of my recent status.

How is the frontal zone? Can you share a picture?

[Hairtroubles]

[Z--]

Ignore the person that suggested you get on a medication that clearly caused you sides.  You should also ignore Reddit fear-mongering, especially tressless. It's a miserable place with folks overly obsessed with hair (hair or die!). 

There are plenty of people here who got a transplant without finasteride and turned out more than fine. See Melvin (the mod) for an obvious example. You just need to temper expectations and be willing to do 2+ transplants to ensure full density. 

On the bright side, you're older than 30. Your pattern isn't that bad and you've still retained the front decently (though recessed). You also have dark hair and olive skin, so the contrast - or lack of - is in your favvor. I do think you should probably wait a year to see if more hair falls out because it seems like the hair loss kicked into overdrive. 

My advice is to avoid Turkey. Bicer is fine, but diffuse pattern loss is super tough to fix and you can't afford to waste precious grafts. You need an elite surgeon. Look at Spain if you're on a budget, plenty of doctors there produce world class results.

[Hairtroubles]

Thanks so much, appreciate the advice.  With Diffuse thinning in mind, which is the best surgeon or what is the best advice then for me, as Melvin himself told me not to get a hair transplant yet? What would you do?

[GoliGoliGoli]

I'm in a similar position to you -  about a Norwood 3 vertex and no interest in going on Fin. I posted some pics on a recent thread if you're curious. Started balding at 25 or so. 

I think if you want to avoid taking Fin a lot comes down to the quality of your donor area and how much you are willing to spend because you will eventually need 2-3 HT's. A lot of people on here say not to consider price when choosing a surgeon and while that advice comes from a good place I think it's crazy to not treat price as a major factor here (Especially for those of us uninterested in getting on Fin). So in short, if you have a good donor area and are ok with spending the money on 2-3 surgeries just find a low cost (But reputable) surgeon in Mexico or Turkey and have at it. 

Right now I am considering whether I want to pay up to go the HT path or just accept balding. I'm looking at about $7300 for HT number 1, and probably at least $6000 for HT number 2 down the line so a minimum total of $13,300 for a decent head of hair. Really going through an internal battle of whether or not it's worth it. I have about $35,000 in the bank so it's a big cut of my net worth. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by GoliGoliGoli

[Z--]

1 hour ago, Hairtroubles said:

Thanks so much, appreciate the advice.  With Diffuse thinning in mind, which is the best surgeon or what is the best advice then for me, as Melvin himself told me not to get a hair transplant yet? What would you do?

Doing nothing is never bad advice -- certainly better than a bad transplant. I'm about 30, and have diffuse thinning (headed to Norwood 6, my crown is worse than yours but my front is about the same). If you want to play it safe, I'd probably wait one year to see if it slows down or stabilizes. That said, looks like you probably lost enough in the front that it might be fine to do a surgery focused on the frontal third. I pulled the trigger and am set for a transplant this year with that plan in mind. I'll be doing my crown next year. I'd be super wary of taking meds after getting severe sides (I also got heart palpitations from minox ) -- that's just asking for trouble imo.

If I were you, I'd look into elite doctors only, who will plan around your loss pattern, splitting it into multiple surgeries. If you are not willing to do 2+ surgeries, I'd say don't bother because you will continue to lose hair. Do not make money or distance the primary consideration (recognize everyone has a reasonable budget though).  First, you need to decide what you're willing to spend (North American doctors are especially $$$$) and how long you're willing to wait. Many of the best doctors have nearly 1 year wait times. 

You should also contemplate whether to start with an FUT surgery and then FUE to maximize your potential long term grafts (it's debated if that's the case, but can't hurt to increase your chances). Decide whether the scar is worth it. 

If you have the budget, Konior and H&W are both incredible. Hattington does magnificent FUT and is more affordable in Europe. Bisanga is also awesome in Europe. If you are willing to wait, Zarev and Couto. No clue how ppl get appointments with them, but if you snag one, 100% you'll be in great hands. Frietas, Pinto, Pitella and Eugenix are all elite as well and affordable. 

If you can only afford Turkey and the above charge too much, Eugenix has some great options at their lowest packages and I don't know of a better clinic handling beard/body hair right now. Be very very careful with Turkey -- Bicer is probably the best option there, but idk man, at that level of loss and if you're on a low budget, Eugenix is probably best. Feel free to pm me if any questions.

Good luck!!

Edited June 27, 2022 by Z--

[Eugenix Hair Sciences]

You are grade 3V on the Norwood Hamilton scale of baldness.

You shall require:

Frontal zone: 2200 to 2400 grafts approximately

Crown: 1700 to 1800 grafts approximately

If you do not take finasteride then the baldness will progress and new areas will become empty over due course of time. You will require more transplantation procedures in the newly empty areas.

If you do not want to go for multiple hair transplants then you should avoid going for any as it will look weird if new areas go bald after the first transplant.

[Hairtroubles]

So what do I do then, as I do not want to touch Fin, I cannot.  What do you suggest, wait as long as possible to get a hair transplant?

When does the hair loss stabilise and it would be okay to get a hair transplant in 2-3 years?

I really do not want to be on medication, honestly, are you telling me that if I am not on medication - there is ZERO point of getting a hair transplant?

[RTC]

Bro you have all the information and still you continue to ask hundreds of questions.

You have to just make a decision. I personally think you shouldn't do a transplant as you are clearly very anxious about it, overly so. Either bite the bullet and do it with finasteride etc (maybe topical), or do it without finasteride but a few years later you may have to revisit the transplant idea.

Edited June 30, 2022 by Aslitarcan sucks