Brainfog on topical fin. Suggestions?

[Severin]

Hey everyone.

 

This will be my second post on a hairloss forum in 10 years. My first post got me some really awesome feedback, and I thought I'd try again with another pressing topic.

 

My first attempted hairloss regiment in many years was .25 mg oral Fin M/W/F and topical RU. In less than two weeks my genitals literally felt like cold rubber, and I had horrible heart issues from the RU.

I stopped everything and ordered topical fin and Fluridil. 

I have since dropped the Fluridil and stuck with the topical fin - for almost two months now. There have been no sexual sides this time. However, every day at work I realize I experience a small attack of brainfog and confusion. It feels like wading through cotton. It seemed to be going away for a short while, but it came back yesterday quite strong.

The current concentration I'm using is at 0.1% . Is anyone here using a lower concentration - say, 0.05%, with success? 

I'm reluctant to stop, as my pattern is severe. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Severin
Forgot key details

[devnull]

Your only option is to add bio-identical progesterone (utrogest) sublingual.

Problem is 5ar Inhibits P4->DHP4 transformation,  this means a decrease of allopregnanolone (important neusteroid) downstream.

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by devnull

[Severin]

 

6 minutes ago, devnull said:

Your only option is to add bio-identical progesterone (utrogest) sublingual.

Problem is 5ar Inhibits P4->DHP4 transformation,  this means a decrease of allopregnanolone (important neusteroid) downstream.

 

Hi devnull - while I do appreciate your quick response, the terms you are using are a bit inaccessable to me - would you mind telling me again with slightly simpler language?

[devnull]

I'll try 😃

You are using Finasteride, which is an 5 alpha reductase inhibior.

5 alpha reductase, converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).

 

But 5 alpha reductase, does more than that. You have a hormone in your body which is called Progestrone (typical an important hormone for woman). 

Progesterone will be converted to Dihydroprogesterone and finally to Allopregnanolone, which is a pretty important neurosteroid.

Most people's brain can adjust to the lowered Allopregnanonlone, but some can't.

 

So your option is to increase that Progesterone by adding some bio-indentical (Utrogest 100). So if you have more of that, you'll get the chanche to bind more of it to the 'still-active' 5 alpha reductase enzymes and increase Allopregnanonlone again. 

 

 

[devnull]

Another option - that's what I am doing - but you shouldn't.

Decrease your Testosterone to very low leves, so T is not competing with P4 on the 5ar2 anymore, and your levels of DHP4 will increase -> more Allopregnanolone.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by devnull

[Gatsby]

Personally my advice would be to stop finasteride. At least for the time being.

[Severin]

4 hours ago, devnull said:

I'll try 😃

You are using Finasteride, which is an 5 alpha reductase inhibior.

5 alpha reductase, converts testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT).

 

But 5 alpha reductase, does more than that. You have a hormone in your body which is called Progestrone (typical an important hormone for woman). 

Progesterone will be converted to Dihydroprogesterone and finally to Allopregnanolone, which is a pretty important neurosteroid.

Most people's brain can adjust to the lowered Allopregnanonlone, but some can't.

 

So your option is to increase that Progesterone by adding some bio-indentical (Utrogest 100). So if you have more of that, you'll get the chanche to bind more of it to the 'still-active' 5 alpha reductase enzymes and increase Allopregnanonlone again. 

 

 

Oh wow - okay. Thank you. This is very detailed and gives me a lot to look into.

[devnull]

You might also want to get your hormones checked, might be also that you have high estrogen and high testosterone, which gives a lot of discomfort.

 

I am working as a programmer, and FIN triggered this brain fog for me too, like you said: like in cotton UNSTANDABLE. This won't go away bit itself, so you need to do something against it, lowering the dose won't help unfortantly.

[Severin]

1 hour ago, devnull said:

You might also want to get your hormones checked, might be also that you have high estrogen and high testosterone, which gives a lot of discomfort.

 

I am working as a programmer, and FIN triggered this brain fog for me too, like you said: like in cotton UNSTANDABLE. This won't go away bit itself, so you need to do something against it, lowering the dose won't help unfortantly.

That's a depressing dose of reality! I was hoping that 0.05 topical might help, as 0.1 topical totally erased the sexual sides I had with oral fin. 

I'm sorry to hear you experienced it too. As a programmer, that must have been maddening. Hell - anything that requires remembering a sequence of 3 steps or more can become almost insurmountable.

[Severin]

2 hours ago, Gatsby said:

Personally my advice would be to stop finasteride. At least for the time being.

Does it sound crazy that I think I would prefer a few hours of brainfog a day the catatonic depression my hairloss put me in this past year?

Let me answer that. Yes. It's crazy. I can't believe how much this condition has taken from me.

I know you're right. But emotionally, I don't think I'm ready to stop.

[devnull]

6 minutes ago, Severin said:

That's a depressing dose of reality! I was hoping that 0.05 topical might help, as 0.1 topical totally erased the sexual sides I had with oral fin. 

I'm sorry to hear you experienced it too. As a programmer, that must have been maddening. Hell - anything that requires remembering a sequence of 3 steps or more can become almost insurmountable.

I remember the feeling, it was quite hard to go trough, I felt so lost every day

But solving that problem is easy, just get utrogest and you will be fine. 

(Take it sublingual!)

Having a good doctor might help, if not you can get it via black market (see hrt.cafe). 
To save money you can move from topical Fin to oral. 
 

I don’t use Progesterone anymore, as I am trans, my 5ar will not be occupied by too much Testosterone, so my neurosteroid levels are fine. 

But before my transition, P4 helped me a lot and I got rid of the brain fog. 
 

[Mike10]

Stop the medication

[Nw7HPE]

Stop it now, I stopped 4 years ago after only being on it for a month 0.25 MG 3 times per week  . Most of the side effects reversed for me thankfully but on some days I have a bit of lingering cold feet and brainfog .

[ciaus]

Nice to see "two", "new" members joining the forum the same day, hours apart, starting and maintaining most of the back and forth in this conversation.

How hard it must be for the fringe anti-finasteride crowd to be patient enough to create convincing scenarios for freaking guys out about taking finasteride.

[devnull]

21 minutes ago, ciaus said:

Nice to see "two", "new" members joining the forum the same day, hours apart, starting and maintaining most of the back and forth in this conversation.

How hard it must be for the fringe anti-finasteride crowd to be patient enough to create convincing scenarios for freaking guys out about taking finasteride.

🤨

[Severin]

47 minutes ago, ciaus said:

Nice to see "two", "new" members joining the forum the same day, hours apart, starting and maintaining most of the back and forth in this conversation.

How hard it must be for the fringe anti-finasteride crowd to be patient enough to create convincing scenarios for freaking guys out about taking finasteride.

You may want to reread the content of the exchange, my friend - you're seeing scaremongering where there was nothing but an exchange of advice.

Have no fear - the fringe group I belong to is not propeciahelp.com . It's to the group of hairloss sufferers who stopped dating or going outside. My depression resulting from this condition has inspired the darkest thoughts I have ever heard spoken in my head, and so am extremely, EXTREMELY invested in Finasteride working for me. The brainfog I have experienced is heartbreaking and would do anything to take the damn thing with no side effects.

So ball is in your court now. What do you suggest for a person in my position?

[ciaus]

1 hour ago, Severin said:

My depression resulting from this condition has inspired the darkest thoughts I have ever heard spoken in my head, and so am extremely, EXTREMELY invested in Finasteride working for me. The brainfog I have experienced is heartbreaking and would do anything to take the damn thing with no side effects.

So ball is in your court now. What do you suggest for a person in my position?

 

Noticed you couldn't help drop that web address as you make your denial, confirming my suspicion. If anyone is having issues with depression they should be consulting with medical professionals in all medical things, both mentally and physically. And considering how much garbage and misinformation there is online, even mentally healthy people would be wise to not use the internet for medical advice and recommendations.

There are any number of lifestyle habits, dietary habits, non-hairloss medications, to just plain getting older and the body starting to break down, that can cause the same issues that a small minority of people report having with finasteride. And almost everybody on this forum is just an everyday guy with no medical training, no accountability, and no liability to discourage them from giving out incorrect, unverified, even false information. It might be hard for someone depressed to understand, but they deserve better than that.

  

Edited April 1, 2022 by ciaus

[devnull]

@ciaus My suspicion is that you are a troll and I will report you. 
You can just not blame me for helping out someone who is in trouble. Moreover people telling him to stop the medication, in contrast of that I give tips how to overcome Brainfog. 
I am not a medical doctor, anyways, us trans persons, have to deal a lot with hormones in general and hormonal imbalances. 
I am still pretty sure, that this is a problem of missing Allopregnanolone in downstream. 

But instead of offending me, I am very ecxited what tips do you have. 
So why is he suffering from brain fog and what can be done about it ?

On the other hand, if you are not willing to hear other peoples opinions and join a discussion, I am wondering why you enter a forum at all. 

Edited April 2, 2022 by devnull

[Severin]

9 hours ago, ciaus said:

 

Noticed you couldn't help drop that web address as you make your denial, confirming my suspicion. If anyone is having issues with depression they should be consulting with medical professionals in all medical things, both mentally and physically. And considering how much garbage and misinformation there is online, even mentally healthy people would be wise to not use the internet for medical advice and recommendations.

There are any number of lifestyle habits, dietary habits, non-hairloss medications, to just plain getting older and the body starting to break down, that can cause the same issues that a small minority of people report having with finasteride. And almost everybody on this forum is just an everyday guy with no medical training, no accountability, and no liability to discourage them from giving out incorrect, unverified, even false information. It might be hard for someone depressed to understand, but they deserve better than that.

  

 I'm a little disappointed to see how you edited your message.

You and I live in the same world, my friend - we share the same condition, and our solution is the same drug. So you know as well as I do that even a cursory google search for Finasteride will inevitably lead a person to that website, as before hairloss advocates like Kevin Mann etc, the online space was dominated by their frightening narrative. 

Anyway. My first intention was to reach out to THANK you for your initially measured response to my message last night. You're absolutely right - once emotions reach a certain intensity, it's a better option to seek professional help. But maybe you can relate to this - in a therapist's office, often I'm met with an otherwise compassionate human being taking a look at me quizzically, before saying "what about (insert middle aged rich Hollywood jock on PEDs)? They're bald and they're successful!"

Edited April 2, 2022 by Severin
Impoverished grammar

[Severin]

@devnullthank you for offering your experience and advice, as well as simplifying the language a bit for my dumb ass! 

I'd like to keep the tone of this discussion helpful, so it would be a good idea to restate my intention - to find a way of dosing topical Finasteride that keeps the benefits of the drug, while minimizing systemic effects. I believe 0.1% is too high for me - and while thankfully I have had no sexual sides whatsoever on this dose, it is clearly still impacting me in other ways.

I'm going to order an 0.05% concentration now, as serum DHT will hopefully be less affected.

If anyone reading this has been in a similar situation as me, and has found longterm stable success through a smaller dose, I would love to hear from you specifically.

[devnull]

You likely can save money and just do a 1:1 mix with minoxidil, so you will get your 0.05 solution. 

[Severin]

Thanks for your suggestion - I'm actually about to try my luck w/a super low dose oral Minoxidil, which (fingers crossed) might get me a higher growth yield than topical. If I'm unable to tolerate it, I'll try what you've suggested.

[Melvin- Admin]

Good catch community, it’s clear this is the same person, while the IP address may be different, the area is the same. 

I warned everyone that I would be cracking down on duplicate accounts, and if caught, you’d be banned no questions asked. 

[ciaus]

2 hours ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Good catch community, it’s clear this is the same person, while the IP address may be different, the area is the same. 

I warned everyone that I would be cracking down on duplicate accounts, and if caught, you’d be banned no questions asked. 

 

 

Coming back with one more thing to add. When fraudulent topics like this are discovered it would be good to either delete or 'brand' them by adding "Fraud, Fake," etc to the front of the inflammatory subject title.

Leaving the topics viewable, even just the subject titles, still helps these people achieve their warped goal of fear mongering. They want to give an inflated sense of the numbers of people effected and symptom ranges so that guys are too scared to even consider the medications.

And thanks again @Melvin- Moderator for the extra diligence and action!

[Melvin- Admin]

13 minutes ago, ciaus said:

 

Coming back with one more thing to add. When fraudulent topics like this are discovered it would be good to either delete or 'brand' them by adding "Fraud, Fake," etc to the front of the inflammatory subject title.

Leaving the topics viewable, even just the subject titles, still helps these people achieve their warped goal of fear mongering. They want to give an inflated sense of the numbers of people effected and symptom ranges so that guys are too scared to even consider the medications.

And thanks again @Melvin- Moderator for the extra diligence and action!

I’m not sure we can say it’s fraudulent, based on the fact there’s a duplicate account. I think it’s important to keep it up, so people can draw their own conclusions. Brain fog is a common side effect with finasteride, so it is possible with the topical version.