How Much Should You Pay For Your First Hair Transplant?

[Z--]

15 hours ago, deeznuts said:

So I might just be saying this as someone with a steady job in tech but...

10k... Even 20k is almost a drop in the bucket over the course of your life. Yeah it seems a lot in the here and now but lots of people can save 10-20k in a year if not less. So at most you're losing a year of earnings. I see people buy luxury cars and that's 10k/20k lost to depreciation that you'll never get back. There's lot of dumber shit you can spend your money on... 

I check out reddit for hairtransplants some times and the number of people who are making legitimately terrible decisions is baffling. I saw one dude pay more for his business class flight to Turkey than he did for his transplant. 

Exactly this. Think of it this way -- you could probably do two to three transplants with a top surgeon for the price of a Telsa Model Y. I understand its a matter of preference, but honestly, looking in the mirror each day without (or perhaps with less) worry is worth more to me, and I'd imagine many who have done enough research to find this forum, that I find it strange that people balk at the prices. No one seems to question paying for the Model Y -- which will likely be half its value after a few years. Weird that people freak out for paying for a hair transplant surgeon.

For context, when I was younger I had to do a 20k facial-bone correction surgery with a top surgeon in the U.S.. When I was in mid-twenties, I'd done LASIK with a pioneer of the field, charging 5k (in comparison to others charging 2.5k nearby). However, unlike a few people who've had less than stellar results doing a similar surgeries, I've never had a problem in either case (and both I'd say are the best investments I've ever done for myself) because I'd picked the best, regardless of price. These doctors typically see less people, and it was incredibly comforting that I could reach out to them, regardless of time of day and they would answer my inquiries. They'd see me for consistently free follow-ups to ensure everything was 100%. All this is to say: keep in mind that you aren't just paying for surgery, but for an ethical surgeon, who will make things right in the event of an issue and provide a more personalized experience, instead of treating you like just another customer. For my fellow users in the U.S., our healthcare system is broken, so naturally we tend to pay more, but it's easier to fly or drive back to great doctor in the states in the event of an issue than having to go back and forth overseas.

[Gatsby]

My take on it is this. I would happily pay the price it would take to achieve the perfect match (to the best of my ability) of finding the right surgeon who has a massive turn over of patient reviewed work of a hair loss pattern that matches my hair loss pattern. Of hair type that matches my hair type with results that are in line with the results for my goals. It also requires the surgeon (him or herself) to have the communication skills and investment in my hair transplant needs, not just for now, but for the lifespan of my hair loss needs. I've always stated that communication is key because all of the unhappy customers that went for the cheapest option have had to pay the same price (and often more) in the end to repair the damage resulting from going to the cheapest price as their criterion. Now I obviously wouldn't be happy to be paying Dr Ray Woods or 'Mulholland Drive' prices. But my point is that if you start with price last in your search criteri then you will generally find that it will cost the least amount 'first' over the lifespan. This is surgery guys. Not buying a car on hire purchase.

[Al - Moderator]

19 hours ago, Balding Bad said:

Moreover, I just learned from a friend of mine recently that a friend of his got a HT in LA a few years ago for a whopping $40,000! At a certain point I think these prices do become unreasonable.

 

I paid $16,000 for my hair transplant back in 1989 to 1994. The estimate was for 4 transplants at a total of 300 grafts and 2 scalp reductions at $18.50 per graft + $750 per scalp reduction + $150 per session for a guarantee of no scars, the hair never falling out, they would replace any hair that doesn't grow. I ended up paying $16,000 and refused to pay more as that was already more than double the estimate. They did a lot of work for no charge, but if I paid for everything it would have been just under $36000.

If I put these costs into an inflation calculator to see what it is in todays dollars it comes to $40.52 per graft, I would have paid $35,000, and if I paid for everything it would have been over $78,000.

I actually paid about half of the $16,000 and my parents paid the other half. I had saved $8000 so I could pay for it as that was the estimate. I was 22 years old at the start.

 

[Al - Moderator]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:24 AM, deeznuts said:

10k... Even 20k is almost a drop in the bucket over the course of your life. Yeah it seems a lot in the here and now but lots of people can save 10-20k in a year if not less. So at most you're losing a year of earnings. I see people buy luxury cars and that's 10k/20k lost to depreciation that you'll never get back. There's lot of dumber shit you can spend your money on...

 

I had this same kind of thinking when I was looking into getting a hair transplant years ago. In my early 20's I had saved enough money to buy a 2 unit house. However I was already a NW 5 or maybe even a NW 6. A hair transplant in those days was done in several sessions with each one scheduled 6 weeks apart. I knew I had to take off at least 6 months from work, maybe even up to a year. If I bought the house I would be tied up paying the mortgage for years and who knows when I would have enough money saved up again to have the hair transplant. My thinking was that I can do a hair transplant now and wait until I save money again to start buying properties later, but I can't buy any properties now and be young years later, so I spent the money on a hair transplant.

So here's a question for anyone thinking if you just pay more to go to the best then you should be OK. What happens if you keep losing hair? In 2 years you have to go back again for another hair transplant. That's another $20k that you didn't plan for. Then 2 or 3 years later and you have to spend another $20k. Then maybe another $10k 2 years after that. Eventually you are out of donor and still a bald man because you lost hair past the donor grafts, so all that early transplanted hair is gone. What do you do then? Was it really worth it to not get the car, not get the house, and not take the vacations?

 

[Gasthoerer]

On 10/21/2021 at 7:03 PM, JDEE0 said:

If you like the results a surgeon puts out, then you pay the premium if you can afford it, it's really that simple (and if you can't, then someone else will).

 

 

 

This! If I could get back the status, I had as a 15 year old, I would literally pay anything I have...I pay premium for a clinic which brings as close as possible towards this goal. Of course, I understand that not everyone has the same funds, but just as @Melvin- Moderator said: It is an invest in yourself. You should not be cheap with yourself. 

I understand people have a different mindset, but I have this mindset also buying other stuff: If I cannot afford the hifi-system I like - I wait until I can. Buying cheap often means, buying twice and this is a gamble I would never do with my head. 

The money I paid for my HT was the best money ever spend. Just this week, someone at a party (he was balding heavily) said to me after a couple of drinks, how much he "envies my hair". I really had to laugh, cause he had no idea that I had a HT. This natural look is worth every extra penny.

[TorontoMan]

On 10/23/2021 at 8:24 AM, deeznuts said:

So I might just be saying this as someone with a steady job in tech but...

10k... Even 20k is almost a drop in the bucket over the course of your life. Yeah it seems a lot in the here and now but lots of people can save 10-20k in a year if not less. So at most you're losing a year of earnings. I see people buy luxury cars and that's 10k/20k lost to depreciation that you'll never get back. There's lot of dumber shit you can spend your money on... 

I check out reddit for hairtransplants some times and the number of people who are making legitimately terrible decisions is baffling. I saw one dude pay more for his business class flight to Turkey than he did for his transplant. 

Yeah I could speak on this personally, $15k for me wasn't by any means pocket change, but not a single day passes where I think about that money. Tressless should be avoided like the plague,I see way too many posts about guys saying their budgets are $2k.. & I get it, not everyone lives in a first world country and earns enough, but they're so quick to jump to these "sale prices" ... they do stop at surface level research and think they did well and its disheartening tbh. Tressless also a good place to go convince yourself your dick is shrinking from fin and min too. 

[digi23]

Can anyone who paid top dollar for someone in the US, like 15 dollars a graft tell me why you choose the Dr? You could have gone to someone who basically hits every patient out of the park like De Freitas for 3,50 euro a graft or Dr Bruno Ferreira for 2,50 euro a graft.

Did you base your procedure based on location and easy to get to?

I can understand why you would pay 45,000 dollars for 3000 grafts for location & you are just a millionaire so it does not matter. But for someone working 9 to 5, choosing the same result paying 45,000 dollars or 7,500-10,500 dollars + maybe 1000-2000 dollars for round trip.

Edited October 24, 2021 by digi23

[TEXAN35]

Its about demand and supply.  High cost leads to quality to a certain point but after that limit, the price is purely driven by demand and and not necessarily increases quality.

If a surgeon asking for 10 dollars/graft and is still getting request for 2 surgeries a day and has to turn down one of two he can choose from two options

1) Increase the charge to 12 dollars/graft so automatically he will get less request for transplant matching his/her availability.

2) He/she can keep the cost to 10dollars/hr and decline the patients he/she cannot accommodate.

We would prefer them to choose the 2nd option but its not our call. Normal business model curve will point to option 1 . Not sure if we can call it unethical.

 

That's why we are not here to push for monopolistic market for few doctors. Meaning if we do not know about a surgeon we should restrain from being extremely negative about that surgeon. All we should do is mention that the surgeon is not screened and then recommend the patient , the screened doctors.

[digi23]

1 hour ago, TEXAN35 said:

Its about demand and supply.  High cost leads to quality to a certain point but after that limit, the price is purely driven by demand and and not necessarily increases quality.

If a surgeon asking for 10 dollars/graft and is still getting request for 2 surgeries a day and has to turn down one of two he can choose from two options

1) Increase the charge to 12 dollars/graft so automatically he will get less request for transplant matching his/her availability.

2) He/she can keep the cost to 10dollars/hr and decline the patients he/she cannot accommodate.

We would prefer them to choose the 2nd option but its not our call. Normal business model curve will point to option 1 . Not sure if we can call it unethical.

 

That's why we are not here to push for monopolistic market for few doctors. Meaning if we do not know about a surgeon we should restrain from being extremely negative about that surgeon. All we should do is mention that the surgeon is not screened and then recommend the patient , the screened doctors.

Well yes, I think the Dr should charge the max amount he can. For some Drs I think they can charge almost as much as they want to because the customers will just be different target audience the more they go up, they will still be fully booked. I guess this is why it is so many cheap bad clinics that is not going bankrupt in the US because most of the 9 to 5ers can only go to bad choices like Bosley, that do not deserve to be around.

For the top choices in the US there is only the very upper class that can afford it, if not you need to save for many years/get in debt. 

For FUE it is interesting if someone actually lower/middle class would choose top US Drs over top EU Drs with the insane price difference, then I assume that it might be only that they do not want to travel for the procedure.

Edited October 24, 2021 by digi23

[deeznuts]

On 10/24/2021 at 12:04 PM, BeHappy said:

 

I had this same kind of thinking when I was looking into getting a hair transplant years ago. In my early 20's I had saved enough money to buy a 2 unit house. However I was already a NW 5 or maybe even a NW 6. A hair transplant in those days was done in several sessions with each one scheduled 6 weeks apart. I knew I had to take off at least 6 months from work, maybe even up to a year. If I bought the house I would be tied up paying the mortgage for years and who knows when I would have enough money saved up again to have the hair transplant. My thinking was that I can do a hair transplant now and wait until I save money again to start buying properties later, but I can't buy any properties now and be young years later, so I spent the money on a hair transplant.

So here's a question for anyone thinking if you just pay more to go to the best then you should be OK. What happens if you keep losing hair? In 2 years you have to go back again for another hair transplant. That's another $20k that you didn't plan for. Then 2 or 3 years later and you have to spend another $20k. Then maybe another $10k 2 years after that. Eventually you are out of donor and still a bald man because you lost hair past the donor grafts, so all that early transplanted hair is gone. What do you do then? Was it really worth it to not get the car, not get the house, and not take the vacations?

 

Well ideally you're gonna stabilize your rate of loss with medication like fin or dut. 

And I guess it depends on how badly you're balding... Not every guy is gonna need 20k worth of grafts every 2 years. There are guys who are NW2 or NW3 at 40 and they're probably not gonna hit NW5 or NW6. Maybe they need a few hundred grafts a couple years down the line. And you're probably not gonna need 20k worth of touchups either imo. 

I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective of my own case where I'm receding in the corners but not dealing with anything that aggressive

[Melvin- Admin]

21 hours ago, digi23 said:

Well yes, I think the Dr should charge the max amount he can. For some Drs I think they can charge almost as much as they want to because the customers will just be different target audience the more they go up, they will still be fully booked. I guess this is why it is so many cheap bad clinics that is not going bankrupt in the US because most of the 9 to 5ers can only go to bad choices like Bosley, that do not deserve to be around.

For the top choices in the US there is only the very upper class that can afford it, if not you need to save for many years/get in debt. 

For FUE it is interesting if someone actually lower/middle class would choose top US Drs over top EU Drs with the insane price difference, then I assume that it might be only that they do not want to travel for the procedure.

If they’re willing to save and make the investment, the question becomes why would you travel? For example, if you happen to live an hour away from one of the best surgeons in the US, even though they may be twice the cost of someone in lets say Europe. Why go through hassle of going through TSA, booking a hotel, dealing with jetlag when you can literally make a short drive. When all things are equal, quality and skill, the deciding factor will be cost yes, but also convenience. 
 

[JDEE0]

1 hour ago, deeznuts said:

Well ideally you're gonna stabilize your rate of loss with medication like fin or dut. 

And I guess it depends on how badly you're balding... Not every guy is gonna need 20k worth of grafts every 2 years. There are guys who are NW2 or NW3 at 40 and they're probably not gonna hit NW5 or NW6. Maybe they need a few hundred grafts a couple years down the line. And you're probably not gonna need 20k worth of touchups either imo. 

I guess I'm looking at it from the perspective of my own case where I'm receding in the corners but not dealing with anything that aggressive

I have to say it's also a pretty heavily U.S. minded post considering that, even if you did need a touch up every few years (in which case you probably shouldn't ever have had the HT to begin with as this describes a person who is in the middle of aggressive, completely unstable hair loss), you can easily go to lots of good surgeons for under 3 EUR per graft abroad. 

Let's say you do go get 1000 graft touch ups to keep up with continued loss every 2 or 3 years, if your surgeon charges 2.6 EUR (as in my case just for an example), then it's more like 2600 EUR worth of grafts, so around 3000 USD, and certainly not 20k a go. 

Also, whilst I take Happy's overall point in that you need to plan for the worst and understand that maybe you'll need to undertake unexpected trips to the HT doc, starting out as a NW6 these days is either tackled with a mega session approach with the likes of H&W/Eugenix, or you go in planning for 2 or 3 procedures from the get go anyways and so you really should know exactly what your costs are going to be upfront. If you really want to go wild you can start using BHT after scalp is up, but again, you should be knowing if this is going to be necessary or not before you commit. 

Back in the day when only hundreds of grafts were implanted at a time, and with unrefined skills, methods and results, sure, I can see how it could turn into a huge money pit, but today, you can easily max out your donor safely and effectively in a couple procedures max as a high NW. And in a lot of places outside of NA, 20 grand by itself is enough to quite easily cover the cost of maxing out all your grafts over the course of a lifetime. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by JDEE0

[TEXAN35]

39 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

I have to say it's also a pretty heavily U.S. minded post considering that, even if you did need a touch up every few years (in which case you probably shouldn't ever have had the HT to begin with as this describes a person who is in the middle of aggressive, completely unstable hair loss), you can easily go to lots of good surgeons for under 3 EUR per graft abroad. 

Let's say you do go get 1000 graft touch ups to keep up with continued loss every 2 or 3 years, if your surgeon charges 2.6 EUR (as in my case just for an example), then it's more like 2600 EUR worth of grafts, so around 3000 USD, and certainly not 20k a go. 

Also, whilst I take Happy's overall point in that you need to plan for the worst and understand that maybe you'll need to undertake unexpected trips to the HT doc, starting out as a NW6 these days is either tackled with a mega session approach with the likes of H&W/Eugenix, or you go in planning for 2 or 3 procedures from the get go anyways and so you really should know exactly what your costs are going to be upfront. If you really want to go wild you can start using BHT after scalp is up, but again, you should be knowing if this is going to be necessary or not before you commit. 

Back in the day when only hundreds of grafts were implanted at a time, and with unrefined skills, methods and results, sure, I can see how it could turn into a huge money pit, but today, you can easily max out your donor safely and effectively in a couple procedures max as a high NW. And in a lot of places outside of NA, 20 grand by itself is enough to nearly cover the cost of maxing out all your grafts over the course of a lifetime. 

2.6 Euro per graft 🙂 . Now I want to move to Europe probably right next to Dr Bisangas clinic. Then I will not have to worry about breaking the bank.

[JDEE0]

16 minutes ago, TEXAN35 said:

2.6 Euro per graft 🙂 . Now I want to move to Europe probably right next to Dr Bisangas clinic. Then I will not have to worry about breaking the bank.

Haha, Bisanga is a little more expensive than 2.6 as he's one of the OG's with the highest of reputations, but is still very affordable in comparison to NA prices at 4 EUR per graft. There are only 3 doctors more expensive than him really; Feriduni, Couto and Lorenzo, nearly everyone else (worth considering for the most part at least) are between 2 and 4 EUR per graft across Europe. 

Whilst I stick to my previous statements completely in that a surgeon can charge whatever they want and I would not suggest they change it given that people are paying the premium, my main issue just lies with the complete disparity in US prices vs European prices. 

Take a decently priced clinic such as Ximena Vila in Spain who charges 2.5 EUR per graft; lets say she has 6 other employees working at the clinic in the form of techs and a patient advisor etc (I don't actually know the amount, I'm guessing, but it's probably fairly accurate). Let's say they're all on an average of 35,000 Euros per year, and rent, bills and other basic outgoings total 25,000 Euros a year. That's 235,000 Euros a year.

Now, let's say she does an average of 6 surgeries a week (she does 2 per day in her particular case), and each procedure is an average of 2500 grafts. That's 60,000 Euros per month and 720,000 per year. Take away your previous 235,000 and you still have 485,000 Euros a year. Now, there are obviously other costs such as insurance, medical equipment/tools and god knows what else, but even if we went completely overboard and took off another 100,000 Euros, then that's still just under 400 grand profit every year, or over 30 grand a month.....

To be honest, most places won't even have 6 employees, they may not even be on 35k a year average, and Vila is cheap in comparison to other in Europe who are double her price as stated above...  Obviously my above working outs  are just a very rough estimate, but my point stands in that even the cheaper solid options over here are still making eye watering amounts of money; people like Bisanga, Couto and so on are earning even more (and all rightly so!) My only point is that I guess I just don't see the justification for U.S. surgeons to charge (and make in income) triple or even quadruple of what I've outlined above for work that is objectively of no better quality.

Maybe it's a cultural thing, or just something tied into the whole medical system over there, I don't really know, but to me it's just crazy and I see no way to logically justify it no matter which way someone tries to slice it by talking about cost of living, wages and so on (especially when many European cities and countries are also very expensive places to live); especially when considering the alternatives that can be had by jumping on a plane for 10 or so hours. Again though, I'm not throwing digs at the U.S. surgeons, I believe that you charge what people pay and I think it's completely fair for them to do so, just a thought. 

Edited October 25, 2021 by JDEE0

[Melvin- Admin]

29 minutes ago, JDEE0 said:

Haha, Bisanga is a little more expensive than 2.6 as he's one of the OG's with the highest of reputations, but is still very affordable in comparison to NA prices at 4 EUR per graft. There are only 3 doctors more expensive than him really; Feriduni, Couto and Lorenzo, nearly everyone else (worth considering for the most part at least) are between 2 and 4 EUR per graft across Europe. 

In my opinion, these low prices aren’t gonna last long. Sure, Dr. Ferreira may charge that now, as he’s a relatively new comer, and in my opinion he’s massively underselling himself, as is Villa, whom also is relatively new. 

I believe it’s sensible to charge these prices now, as they develop their reputations and practices, but eventually it will change. Obviously, they don’t have the experience and reputation of the aforementioned names, so charging the same wouldn’t make sense yet.

I think Bisanga’s value is absolutely insane for a doctor of his caliber. That’s around $6 per graft USD that’s really low for the premier league of surgeons.

[JDEE0]

Just now, Melvin- Moderator said:

In my opinion, these low prices aren’t gonna last long. Sure, Dr. Ferreira may charge that now, as he’s a relatively new comer, and in my opinion he’s massively underselling himself, as is Villa, whom also is relatively new. 

I believe it’s sensible to charge these prices now, as they develop their reputations and practices, but eventually it will change. Obviously, they don’t have the experience and reputation of the aforementioned names, so charging the same wouldn’t make sense yet.

I think Bisanga’s value is absolutely insane for a doctor of his caliber. That’s around $6 per graft USD that’s really low for the premier league of surgeons.

I agree completely with all of that to be honest Melvin; all of these doctors will inevitably hike their prices up in the coming years, but Europe has a cap at around 5 EUR per graft with no one higher than that. As you say, even Bisanga is 4 EUR per graft.

Point being, even if Vila, Pinto, Ferreira etc. all go up over 3 EUR per graft in the next 5+ years, it's still extremely cheap compared to the U.S. Even if they're nearing 4 in 10 or 15 years time, same story. By then I'm sure there will be the newcomers to fill their boots though and the cycle will continue on where maybe these names perhaps become the top options, people like Bisanga retire, and you can go to surgeons who are starting to work/be trained by these names as we speak today for sub 3 EUR per graft transplants (well, whatever the equivelant price may be accounting for inflation and so on of course).

Bisanga is expensive over this side of the pond, and people probably look at his prices in the way that people look at the prices of expensive options over in the States.  

[Melvin- Admin]

2 hours ago, JDEE0 said:

I agree completely with all of that to be honest Melvin; all of these doctors will inevitably hike their prices up in the coming years, but Europe has a cap at around 5 EUR per graft with no one higher than that. As you say, even Bisanga is 4 EUR per graft.

Point being, even if Vila, Pinto, Ferreira etc. all go up over 3 EUR per graft in the next 5+ years, it's still extremely cheap compared to the U.S. Even if they're nearing 4 in 10 or 15 years time, same story. By then I'm sure there will be the newcomers to fill their boots though and the cycle will continue on where maybe these names perhaps become the top options, people like Bisanga retire, and you can go to surgeons who are starting to work/be trained by these names as we speak today for sub 3 EUR per graft transplants (well, whatever the equivelant price may be accounting for inflation and so on of course).

Bisanga is expensive over this side of the pond, and people probably look at his prices in the way that people look at the prices of expensive options over in the States.  

Well, the issue in the US is there is massive inflation. Pretty much everything is expensive and if you live in California or New York, you're paying double, or even triple the cost for housing then the rest of the country. I don't see how any surgeon in California could survive charging $5 per graft, the minimum wage in San Francisco is now $15 an hour, rent, healthcare cost, marketing, for a clinic to survive and stay profitable they'd have to charge a minimum of $8 per graft and that's being reasonable. But like everything, there are different markets for different people.

Some people might look at the average rent of a 2-bedroom flat in San Francisco, and think the prices are outrageous and insane. But there's a demand due to the high wages of those in the tech industry, so there's a market of people willing to pay those prices. I do believe if we're able to lower inflation the prices could go down, but if inflation continues to rise, so will the cost of surgery. I believe Europe doesn't face the same dilemmas as the US, but I could be wrong, that's just my assumption based on the relatively affordable cost of surgery in comparison.

[JDEE0]

1 hour ago, Melvin- Moderator said:

Well, the issue in the US is there is massive inflation. Pretty much everything is expensive and if you live in California or New York, you're paying double, or even triple the cost for housing then the rest of the country. I don't see how any surgeon in California could survive charging $5 per graft, the minimum wage in San Francisco is now $15 an hour, rent, healthcare cost, marketing, for a clinic to survive and stay profitable they'd have to charge a minimum of $8 per graft and that's being reasonable. But like everything, there are different markets for different people.

Some people might look at the average rent of a 2-bedroom flat in San Francisco, and think the prices are outrageous and insane. But there's a demand due to the high wages of those in the tech industry, so there's a market of people willing to pay those prices. I do believe if we're able to lower inflation the prices could go down, but if inflation continues to rise, so will the cost of surgery. I believe Europe doesn't face the same dilemmas as the US, but I could be wrong, that's just my assumption based on the relatively affordable cost of surgery in comparison.

I understand, but it's really the same everywhere and not something exclusive to America - Europe does indeed face the same dilemmas as the U.S - to a worse degree overall in fact. There are actually way more cities in Europe than the U.S. that rank in the top 10 or 20 most expensive places to live, both in terms of general cost of living, (price of food, clothing, beer, recreation, and so on) as well as housing costs or rent prices (although San Fransisco in particular is indeed one of the worst places in this regard globally, there are still loads of European cities more or equally expensive as other major U.S. cities such as LA, NY or Chicago).

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-expensive-cities-worldwide-to-rent-an-apartment-2019-5?r=US&IR=T#25-milan-italy-1

https://www.timeout.com/news/revealed-the-most-expensive-cities-in-the-world-right-now-112520

Granted, a lot of the countries that contain the clinics commonly recommended by us here, such as Belgium and Spain, aren't on the list, I'm looking at it as more of a Europe vs the U.S. debate, and their respective major cities are still very expensive, often equally so to those in the U.S regardless. One of the most expensive countries in the world, Switzerland, has someone very well respected like Hattingen who are still under 5 EUR per graft which sort of sums up my whole point. 

No shade at you guys over in the U.S., just pointing out that I feel for you as you can and often do end up paying two, three (or sometimes even higher) times as much as we do in Europe for HT's over a lifetime and that I personally think it's pretty ridiculous or at least objectively hard to justify all things considered. 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by JDEE0