Dr. Bicer/Dr. Demirsoy 3000-3500 grafts

[mark2137]

Almost all male members of my family have/had some issues with hair loss. My grandad was Va/VI on the Hamilton-Norwood scale. I am 27 and started to lose hair when I was ~16. Till 19 years old I had pretty long hair which I cut as my hair loss started to be visible. Then, around 2015 I started to have seborrheic dermatitis (itch, greasy hair, pimples which often caused small bleeding and later scabs).

I began a full therapy:
- Finasteride (1 mg/day),
- Minoxidil (5%),
- Isotretinoin (10 mg/day),

Right now I take/use:
- Finasteride (1 mg/day),
- Minoxidil (5%),
- Saw palmetto,
- two shampoos: Ducray Sensinol shampoo on a daily basis and Mediket Ictamo twice a week,
- Belosalic twice a week (Betamethasonum + Acidum salicylicum),
- Vitamine D,
- Zinc.

I plan to add Nizoral and T/Gel as shampoos to keep my head under control. Honestly, I thought I am III vertex right now but going to IV but according to replies I received I am already IV-V. Finasteride just stops/slows down the process.

I have sent inquiries to Dr. Bicer, Dr. Demirsoy, Dr. Turan. Unfortunately, Dr. Turan has free slots only for the end of March.

So both Dr. Bicer and Dr. Demirsoy have evaluated my case and Dr. Bicer said I need around 4000 grafts. Dr. Demirsoy: 3500-3800. It was a bit sad as I am only 27 and I thought I saw very nice results from members with higher loss and lower number of grafts. But what can you do, right?

Anyway, Dr. Bicer wants to perform my surgery with 3000 grafts, start from the front and go to the top, then I would (most probably) need a second session after a year. So I like this idea. I think the first surgery will help me with my life + I would still have 5000 grafts + body hairs left for the future. The only issue is that the next available slot is in February.

Dr. Demirsoy, however, wants to use 3000-3500 grafts and start from the front and continue as backwards as possible. There will be needed a second session for the crown area. Well, I suffer also because of my crown and do not know what is better: to leave the crown as it is for a year or try to cover it at least a bit. The best thing is that Dr. Demirsoy has available slots in November and December and that would be the best timing for me.

I have to say, both doctors made a really good impression on me. They have proposed a conservative hair line and have not promised me any miracles. So I think I just need to ask you: what would you do in my case?

Of course, one photo of me is from 2011. I miss them.

[Melvin- Admin]

I would choose Bicer all day over Demirsoy. 

[mark2137]

Just now, Melvin- Moderator said:

I would choose Bicer all day over Demirsoy. 

Thanks for your reply. Could you elaborate? I researched like 10 doctors on this forum and spent many hours and have the impression that Dr. Demirsoy does not use too many grafts and has a lot of reviews here.

Indeed, I found a comment that he was somehow excluded from the list of recommended doctors (not sure which list) but I do not know why.

[Melvin- Admin]

1 minute ago, mark2137 said:

Thanks for your reply. Could you elaborate? I researched like 10 doctors on this forum and spent many hours and have the impression that Dr. Demirsoy does not use too many grafts and has a lot of reviews here.

Indeed, I found a comment that he was somehow excluded from the list of recommended doctors (not sure which list) but I do not know why.

Personally, I don’t know his ethics, but I know Bicer’s, and in the event that the transplant doesn’t turn out as expected I know she’ll stand by her work. Remember results cannot be guaranteed, choosing an ethical surgeon is equally as important. 

[Gatsby]

I not only prefer Dr Bicer’s approach but I would prefer to choose her. This is surgery that you will live with for life. Don’t let your decision for surgery be dictated by this. I’ve been waiting for 20 months to have surgery (due to the Australian government’s restrictions on overseas travel so far). The worst thing I could do would be to base my choice of surgeon on availability here in Australia or in price. All the best. 

[mark2137]

6 minutes ago, Gatsby said:

I not only prefer Dr Bicer’s approach. 

Thanks for that!

Of course, I totally agree that the availability is not and should not be crucial. I just thought both doctors are praised here.

I have to say that Dr. Bicer was the only one who contacted me personally and just talked with me.

Ok, I hope I will be her patient

[Britanium]

Out of the 2 I prefer Dr Bicers work. Both are very experienced. And yes it definitely pays to be patient. No need to rush in to this ! 

[Gatsby]

38 minutes ago, mark2137 said:

Almost all male members of my family have/had some issues with hair loss. My grandad was Va/VI on the Hamilton-Norwood scale. I am 27 and started to lose hair when I was ~16. Till 19 years old I had pretty long hair which I cut as my hair loss started to be visible. Then, around 2015 I started to have seborrheic dermatitis (itch, greasy hair, pimples which often caused small bleeding and later scabs).

I began a full therapy:
- Finasteride (1 mg/day),
- Minoxidil (5%),
- Isotretinoin (10 mg/day),

Right now I take/use:
- Finasteride (1 mg/day),
- Minoxidil (5%),
- Saw palmetto,
- two shampoos: Ducray Sensinol shampoo on a daily basis and Mediket Ictamo twice a week,
- Belosalic twice a week (Betamethasonum + Acidum salicylicum),
- Vitamine D,
- Zinc.

I plan to add Nizoral and T/Gel as shampoos to keep my head under control. Honestly, I thought I am III vertex right now but going to IV but according to replies I received I am already IV-V. Finasteride just stops/slows down the process.

I have sent inquiries to Dr. Bicer, Dr. Demirsoy, Dr. Turan. Unfortunately, Dr. Turan has free slots only for the end of March.

So both Dr. Bicer and Dr. Demirsoy have evaluated my case and Dr. Bicer said I need around 4000 grafts. Dr. Demirsoy: 3500-3800. It was a bit sad as I am only 27 and I thought I saw very nice results from members with higher loss and lower number of grafts. But what can you do, right?

Anyway, Dr. Bicer wants to perform my surgery with 3000 grafts, start from the front and go to the top, then I would (most probably) need a second session after a year. So I like this idea. I think the first surgery will help me with my life + I would still have 5000 grafts + body hairs left for the future. The only issue is that the next available slot is in February.

Dr. Demirsoy, however, wants to use 3000-3500 grafts and start from the front and continue as backwards as possible. There will be needed a second session for the crown area. Well, I suffer also because of my crown and do not know what is better: to leave the crown as it is for a year or try to cover it at least a bit. The best thing is that Dr. Demirsoy has available slots in November and December and that would be the best timing for me.

I have to say, both doctors made a really good impression on me. They have proposed a conservative hair line and have not promised me any miracles. So I think I just need to ask you: what would you do in my case?

Of course, one photo of me is from 2011. I miss them.

If it’s any consolation this was my hair at 16! 🤣

[Britanium]

Lol 😂 old school phone 📞 And great hair @Gatsby 

[mark2137]

Welcome to the once curly hair club  And I have heard that curly hair are more resistant

[Britanium]

14 minutes ago, mark2137 said:

Welcome to the once curly hair club  And I have heard that curly hair are more resistant

Hmmm my curly hair started disappearing in my 20s 😞

[BLE123]

Both good doctors, I've yet to see a bad Demirsoy case - not that I've seen bad results from Bicer, just trying to offer some balance.

Edited September 14, 2021 by BLE123

[JDEE0]

3 minutes ago, BLE123 said:

Both good doctors, I've yet to see a bad Demirsoy case - not that I've seen bad results from Bicer, just trying to offer some balance.

I agree - whilst I think Bicer is also a good 'budget' option, I have always liked what I see from Demirsoy cases, from his donor management/extraction patterns to his hairlines, he's probably my favourite budget surgeon going off the results I've seen here and there. 

Saying that, OP, if you can stretch to 2.5 EUR per graft then I would go to HLC instead of Bicer or Demirsoy. 

[rob7331]

Another pitch here for Demirsoy. Lots of fantastic results of his on this forum (and others) - many satisfied folks. He was high up on my list personally and is very affordable while still being matched with significant quality. A rare thing in the HT world.

I'm less familiar with Bicer, but I trust Melvin and the other posters above to make a good recommendation. Best thing to do is search for individual results online and see if you think that doctor's approach would work well for you!

Demirsoy's recommendation for your surgery is pretty on par - that's what I'd recommend anyway. Re-establish your hairline (this will make you very happy, trust me) and then a year or so later return for the crown, if you so choose.

[mark2137]

1 hour ago, JDEE0 said:

OP, if you can stretch to 2.5 EUR per graft then I would go to HLC instead of Bicer or Demirsoy.

Well, I emailed them but they wanted to use my body hair right now + it did not look like an individual approach. They also charge 2.7 EUR.

15 minutes ago, rob7331 said:

Best thing to do is search for individual results online and see if you think that doctor's approach would work well for you!

That is the case. I like both of them. I have to admit though, Dr. Bicer seems like she just cares.

 

18 minutes ago, rob7331 said:

then a year or so later return for the crown, if you so choose

I have to. Of course, hairline is more visible and I know it will boost my confidence but every time I look at my crown... It hurts. I remember when I had long, curly hair and started loosing my hair. It was so painful back then. Right now I lost a lot and I just got used to this fact but at the same time I have zero confidence and have troubles on many fields so I just want to feel better with myself.

[Berba11]

One thing I'd add about Demirsoy... He has a tendency (as evidenced in numerous patient threads on this and other forums), to reduce his graft-count assessment once he's seen you in person. That's a good thing - it speaks to a level of integrity and ethics that you would want from your surgeon. It's also always nice to spend a little less than you anticipated you would!

You'd be making good choices with either Dr.

There does remain the question about post-op care if something goes wrong. Bicer's aftercare is highly regarded and evidenced plenty. Demirsoy's less so, largely owing to the fact that I've never seen a bad result from him. That's a double edged sword; on the one hand... Great! He produces consistently good work. On the other... If your case doesn't come out as planned, nobody quite knows for sure what the response will be (good or bad). It's probably the single biggest reason I've plumped for Eugenix over Demirsoy for my own surgery in a few months. Aftercare is largely redundant when everything goes well. But what if it doesn't? If you are going to limit your destination to Turkey, I'd argue that part of your research should be to find out the answers to these unknown elements.

[mark2137]

6 hours ago, Berba11 said:

Bicer's aftercare is highly regarded and evidenced plenty

Where have you seen bad results from her? Are you able to share?

[Berba11]

3 hours ago, mark2137 said:

Where have you seen bad results from her? Are you able to share?

I'm not saying I have - only that Bicer's aftercare is often cited as a positive in pretty much every thread I've seen. If something didn't turn out so well, I think she's a safe bet for making sure things get resolved. I have a vague recollection of a case involving Bicer where someone had to go back for a second pass and did so without issue, so hopefully someone here can point you in that direction if that's the case. @Melvin- Moderator will be the guy to ask.

My understanding is that Demirsoy is a big favourite within German HT forum-circles. Might be worth trawling through there with the translate option on to see what you can find.

[digi23]

On 9/15/2021 at 9:26 AM, mark2137 said:

Where have you seen bad results from her? Are you able to share?

Dr. Bicer have great follow up as I seen in all reviews, they ask for photos, if everything is well with the patient after the HT and follows up like once a week which is not to be said from many others. They seem to care about the individual in the first place and about the $ second

[mark2137]

Yeah, I got the same impression  Well, I have booked a surgery with Dr. Bicer!

[cloudy]

On 9/28/2021 at 9:31 AM, mark2137 said:

Yeah, I got the same impression  Well, I have booked a surgery with Dr. Bicer!

Nice to hear that you booked a transplant procedure!

Can you send me a message with Dr.Bicer contact info so I can send her questions about my case? Thanks! 🙂

[mark2137]

7 hours ago, cloudy said:

Can you send me a message with Dr.Bicer contact info so I can send her questions about my case? Thanks! 🙂

Just use info@ozlembicer.com

[Icyraindrops]

Hi mark, quick question when contacting Dr Demirsoy. How long was it before they got back in touch with you? I've been waiting over a week now and nothing from them and I used their online consultation and sent them a direct email when I didn't hear back from them in the first week.

[mark2137]

7 hours ago, Icyraindrops said:

How long was it before they got back in touch with you?

Two days - direct email.

[Icyraindrops]

3 hours ago, mark2137 said:

Two days - direct email.

Thanks mate, guess I'll try contact again or try Whatsapp